Posted: 3/12/2015 4:44:37 PM EDT
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I have never run packet radio other than APRS.
I know that years ago, packet was probably the biggest thing in ham radio and it seemed like everybody but me was heavily into it. This was long enough ago that the people who I knew that were active on packet were running Commodore 64s, Commodore Vic 20s, and TRS-80s. At the time, for some reason I never got involved in it and now I feel like I missed out. It seems kinda cool, what little I know about it. I asked several local guys who I know used to be active on packet about it and they basically said that when the internet came along, people slowly quit using it because most of the stuff they did on there, they could now do on-line. I do know there is a packet radio system that a few guys around here get on called DAREN. But I know very little else about it. So tell me about packet radio. Are you using it ? What are you doing with it ? Is there much packet activity in your area (other than APRS) ? Do "they" still have packet bulletin boards ? Do you do keyboard to keyboard contacts with it ? I have gear to do it, and I talked to these same local guys about trying it out with me just for the hell of it. |
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Quoted: So tell me about packet radio. Are you using it ? No, but I am really interested. Asked around town here and found the "big packet guys", who told me that it was all but dead. We have a packet node here in town that apparently does not get much use. No winlink V/UHF here local. No BBS operational. I was heartbroken. Didn't bother getting the relatively expensive TNCs that I was drooling over. Got a Mobilinkd TNC that will do KISS stuff just fine, but no one to connect to  What are you doing with it ? Nothin'. See above Is there much packet activity in your area (other than APRS) ? Negative. See above Do "they" still have packet bulletin boards ? There are still some around. We have one "local" to the north of town, but it is too far for me to reach. Do you do keyboard to keyboard contacts with it ? Not me. I have seen people talk about doing that with packet. Don't forget other digital modes like PSK-31 as well. I've heard of people doing that as well. Again, no interest here locally. I have gear to do it, and I talked to these same local guys about trying it out with me just for the hell of it. Good luck. Really. I'd like to hear about what y'all end up doing! |
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Unfortunately there's not much "old school" packet anymore. There is some activity on 20 meters, 14.105 or "Net 105" is active with several BBS's and gateways but as it's HF, band conditions can make it difficult.
Some months back a few of us here were playing with HF packet and had limited success. Years ago in the 90's (God I'm old) a friend and I had a packet "link" between our shacks on 220 mhz. It was the original instant messaging system. I wish there was more interest. My packet station is right here in the rack and it's lonely. 
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| No doubt. There are a few of us around that started playing with packet back in the '80s and I did with a C64 eventually graduating to a real computer. I operated a W0RLI BBS with several ports including HF and 9k6 on 220 MHz. It all became very time consuming and eventually I decided there were better things I could be doing and sometime in 2000 I shut everything down and put it in boxes. Where I am now there is no packet activity and I don't have much interest in starting any either. It is not a very robust mode on HF, and that's what it would take to get to the next town around here. |
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Man this is a shame that this mode fell out of favor.
It seems like it has something to offer. First of all, I never understood hams comparing ham radio to the internet. Yeah, you can message each other over the internet. But you are using a whole bunch of infrastructure to do it. The point of ham radio is doing the same thing without somebody elses infrastructure. You are doing it via radio. Hell, in the 1940s you could call pretty much anywhere in the world on the telephone. The ability to easily communicate with people all over the world isn't something that started with the internet for Christ's sake. People have been doing that for 70 or 80 years. Again, that isn't the point. The point is that you are doing it with radio and without commercial infrastructure. That being said, I watched a few YouTube videos where a guy sends email over packet and Winlink through a node that is connected to the internet and I think that is cool also. Oh, well. I have seen a few conversations on here about packet and I was hoping that maybe it was just this area that abandoned it. But I guess it is pretty wide spread. Again, it seems like a shame. I don't really know of any other mode in ham radio that just totally dropped off the map like packet did other than spark gap morse code. And that was declared illegal, otherwise some people would have kept using it. CW has been around since the beginning and is still wildly popular. RTTY made the transition from big heavy loud terminals to software. AM is still quite active. But packet............. seems to be all but gone other than APRS. |
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My cursory research a couple of months ago tells me the concept is very much alive, just different tools being used.
Supposedly you can take an Android phone, load up some app that reads APRS (I think APRSdroid), get a Bluetooth TNC, an adapter to a 2m radio, and presto, instant situational awareness of your immediate area for whoever is APRSing as well as transmitting your own packets (text, position, etc). One of the YouTube videos for the Kenwood APRS radio describes the concept pretty well. The radio doesn't have the map the APRSdroid provides but the concept is clear. SCW should be able to tell us more soon. |
APRS is just one use for packet. I tend to think more along the lines of a BBS or personal "mailbox" that can run even when you aren't there. Ideally there would be a network of stations where messages could be stored and forwarded to the recipient's personal mailbox or a BBS...oh wait.
Too many more of these type threads and we'll have enough members across the country to start ARFNET. |
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I have been using aprsdroid with the Mobilinkd Bluetooth TNC and it works as you describe. There is a guy hosting a free service where you can send an APRS message and it is converted to SMS and goes to the phone number of your choosing. You can set up an alias for the phone number so your packets dontnhave to contain the actual phone number. And you can send an SMS to the service where it gets converted back to an APRS message packet. The only weak link in the system is you need an IGate that will transmit packets from the internet. The ones in my area are set to receive only in order to reduce packet collisions. But realistically there is very little actual APRS traffic here. At the last club meeting one of the guys told me "we don't need any more digipeaters". Well, when I can drive 10 miles without a single packet showing up on APRS.fi, I think there are some gaps in the coverage. Particularly if a handheld antenna won't do it alone. And a fill in digipeater set to beacon once in a 30 minute period would hardly cause congestion. I think some people just like to have a monopoly on ham infrastructure. Anyhow the point of all this is that APRS is the future of packet. With enough people willing to put in the time to work with the SMS gate thing, it can bring text messaging between ham radio and cell phones into the farthest reaches of the back country where cell phone service is non existent. But you need 2 way I gates for it to happen. They just need to be set to filter outgoing packets to only transmit packets from APRS-IS addressed to stations they have " heard" in the last hour or so. |
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Quoted:
My cursory research a couple of months ago tells me the concept is very much alive, just different tools being used. Supposedly you can take an Android phone, load up some app that reads APRS (I think APRSdroid), get a Bluetooth TNC, an adapter to a 2m radio, and presto, instant situational awareness of your immediate area for whoever is APRSing as well as transmitting your own packets (text, position, etc). One of the YouTube videos for the Kenwood APRS radio describes the concept pretty well. The radio doesn't have the map the APRSdroid provides but the concept is clear. SCW should be able to tell us more soon. Yeah, I am doing that. I have a couple AP-510s (one of which I can't get to work ) and pair them with a bluetooth Android based tablet.
I also own a couple of the Kenwood rigs that will do APRS, texting and all that. I also have two of them paired up with displays so I can see APRS activity as well as messaging. One is using an AVMAP and the other a Raspberry Pi with an Argent TNC. |
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My 2 cents. Around here we have at least 1/2 dozen hams using Packet, also a fairly good system around the state from what those hams tell me. I had use of a TNC for a while, had everything else the radio, computer etc but I just couldn't get into it. I do not have an Android phone so going that route isn't an option for me. "Old school" would be my only choice. Now some of the things I don't like: 1. You have to have an EXPENSIVE TNC unless you can find a good used one. 2. If you are going to be serious about packet you will need a dedicated computer, XP based is the best but I've heard of 7 running SOME of the packet software. And 4. - my biggest gripe - you'll need a packet program that probably has not been up-dated in 40 years + !
That is my biggest problem using software that reminds you of DOS! Heck if someone wants to get packet back up and going as, again, a viable means of emergency communication then they need to write new software that can be used without all the "commands" required to do the work. Just make it more user friendly. Well as I said my 2 cents which is exactly what it is worth! Sarge |
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this may help alleviate the cost concerns:
http://www.mobilinkd.com/ |
| I need another TNC like I need another hole in my head but I told the XYL that I wanted a particular tablet for my b-day and I got it. Acer Iconia Tab 8, Atom quad core and WiFi Bluetooth and GPS so it is all ready for the various ham radio uses. Now, that Bluetooth TNC becomes a little bit more tempting but I really don't know why. There is APRS being used in my locale but I'm not particularly interested in that, I can get on the air and tell people where I am if I want them to know. So, what else is it good for? |
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Quoted:
I need another TNC like I need another hole in my head but I told the XYL that I wanted a particular tablet for my b-day and I got it. Acer Iconia Tab 8, Atom quad core and WiFi Bluetooth and GPS so it is all ready for the various ham radio uses. Now, that Bluetooth TNC becomes a little bit more tempting but I really don't know why. There is APRS being used in my locale but I'm not particularly interested in that, I can get on the air and tell people where I am if I want them to know. So, what else is it good for? Packet is good for passing traffic. The www.aprs.org site is pretty cool. Here is one implementation: http://www.aprs.org/aprsevent.html Granted this is APRS, a specific sort of packet comm algorithm, as Sarge pointed out. It's just the one that I know about. |
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Just a few things you can do with APRS:
You can send Email from radio to an iGate and on to anyone in the world that can receive email. . In and of itself, this is cool but it also allows you to communicate from ham radio to non-hams. You can send SMS texts from ham radio to a cell phone. You can instant message from radio to radio. You can transmit messages to anybody with the ability to see them: weather info, road closures, whatever. You can transmit telemetry data. You can use voice alert so other APRS stations are aware of your presence so they call you on voice. This can include one touch QSY to the other stations voice frequency. Obviously people get hung up on APRS tracking their location, but you can also designate objects on APRS. For example, you might have an APRS object showing where a hamfest is and navigate to that object with a couple button presses, or the location of the hospital or a shelter, or a source of water, or whatever. Staying focused on tracking is the biggest downfall of APRS. Using only a tracker, you are doing one way, blind communication and leaving out the receive side of it. You don't need any expensive equipment other than the radio and that doesn't nessessar have to be expensive. I can and do, do this with a raspberry Pi, a TNC-pi, free software that isn't 40 years old......... |
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Quoted:
Just a few things you can do with APRS: You can send Email from radio to an iGate and on to anyone in the world that can receive email. . In and of itself, this is cool but it also allows you to communicate from ham radio to non-hams. You can send SMS texts from ham radio to a cell phone. You can instant message from radio to radio. You can transmit messages to anybody with the ability to see them: weather info, road closures, whatever. You can transmit telemetry data. You can use voice alert so other APRS stations are aware of your presence so they call you on voice. This can include one touch QSY to the other stations voice frequency. Obviously people get hung up on APRS tracking their location, but you can also designate objects on APRS. For example, you might have an APRS object showing where a hamfest is and navigate to that object with a couple button presses, or the location of the hospital or a shelter, or a source of water, or whatever. Staying focused on tracking is the biggest downfall of APRS. Using only a tracker, you are doing one way, blind communication and leaving out the receive side of it. You don't need any expensive equipment other than the radio and that doesn't nessessar have to be expensive. I can and do, do this with a raspberry Pi, a TNC-pi, free software that isn't 40 years old......... Pretty much all of which you can do with Winlink2K. It essentially performs the functions that packet does without any additional hardware. |
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Quoted:
Pretty much all of which you can do with Winlink2K. It essentially performs the functions that packet does without any additional hardware. Quoted:
Quoted:
Just a few things you can do with APRS: You can send Email from radio to an iGate and on to anyone in the world that can receive email. . In and of itself, this is cool but it also allows you to communicate from ham radio to non-hams. You can send SMS texts from ham radio to a cell phone. You can instant message from radio to radio. You can transmit messages to anybody with the ability to see them: weather info, road closures, whatever. You can transmit telemetry data. You can use voice alert so other APRS stations are aware of your presence so they call you on voice. This can include one touch QSY to the other stations voice frequency. Obviously people get hung up on APRS tracking their location, but you can also designate objects on APRS. For example, you might have an APRS object showing where a hamfest is and navigate to that object with a couple button presses, or the location of the hospital or a shelter, or a source of water, or whatever. Staying focused on tracking is the biggest downfall of APRS. Using only a tracker, you are doing one way, blind communication and leaving out the receive side of it. You don't need any expensive equipment other than the radio and that doesn't nessessar have to be expensive. I can and do, do this with a raspberry Pi, a TNC-pi, free software that isn't 40 years old......... Pretty much all of which you can do with Winlink2K. It essentially performs the functions that packet does without any additional hardware. Ok, don't you need a computer and an interface (or at least a computer, I can do Winmor on HF, on my Flex with no other hardware) ? The only hardware you need to do all that APRS stuff is a radio, a computer, and a TNC. So you need a TNC rather than an interface which costs about the same ? And if you have the same equipment as required for APRS, you can do Winmor over packet assuming you can connect with someone who supports it ? Well, I guess to do APRS other than from a fixed location, you need some kind of GPS, so that is additional expense, assuming your radio doesn't already have one. But the point to the post was, a guy asked what can you do with APRS. And that is some of the stuff you can do with APRS. FWIW: I don't really see a valid apples to apples comparison between the two, but I will grant you that you can do some of that stuff over Winlink. |
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Ok, don't you need a computer and an interface (or at least a computer, I can do Winmor on HF, on my Flex with no other hardware) ? The only hardware you need to do all that APRS stuff is a radio, a computer, and a TNC. So you need a TNC rather than an interface which costs about the same ? And if you have the same equipment as required for APRS, you can do Winmor over packet assuming you can connect with someone who supports it ? Well, I guess to do APRS other than from a fixed location, you need some kind of GPS, so that is additional expense, assuming your radio doesn't already have one. But the point to the post was, a guy asked what can you do with APRS. And that is some of the stuff you can do with APRS. FWIW: I don't really see a valid apples to apples comparison between the two, but I will grant you that you can do some of that stuff over Winlink. True, you do need a computer or tablet to run the WL2K, but it basically functions much like packet in that you can send and store for later retrieval, as well as P2P without any additional hardware. APRS stuff I don't know anything about. It's not truly an apples to apples comparison, but it's often overlooked and has much utility. (& it's free) |
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OK then how about someone coming up, or posting a link, a "Packet for Dummies", OR "APRS for Dummies" that explains what you can do and what equipment you need to do it with as 444 has indicated. If I can do all that without adding a bunch of new equipment maybe I can figure out how to get into our local packet group.
I think I said that right? Sarge |
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Quoted:
True, you do need a computer or tablet to run the WL2K, but it basically functions much like packet in that you can send and store for later retrieval, as well as P2P without any additional hardware. APRS stuff I don't know anything about. It's not truly an apples to apples comparison, but it's often overlooked and has much utility. (& it's free) Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, don't you need a computer and an interface (or at least a computer, I can do Winmor on HF, on my Flex with no other hardware) ? The only hardware you need to do all that APRS stuff is a radio, a computer, and a TNC. So you need a TNC rather than an interface which costs about the same ? And if you have the same equipment as required for APRS, you can do Winmor over packet assuming you can connect with someone who supports it ? Well, I guess to do APRS other than from a fixed location, you need some kind of GPS, so that is additional expense, assuming your radio doesn't already have one. But the point to the post was, a guy asked what can you do with APRS. And that is some of the stuff you can do with APRS. FWIW: I don't really see a valid apples to apples comparison between the two, but I will grant you that you can do some of that stuff over Winlink. True, you do need a computer or tablet to run the WL2K, but it basically functions much like packet in that you can send and store for later retrieval, as well as P2P without any additional hardware. APRS stuff I don't know anything about. It's not truly an apples to apples comparison, but it's often overlooked and has much utility. (& it's free) Winlink is one of the coolest things in ham radio in my opinion and I barely knew what it was before you posted about it. I have never actually sent a message on it, but I installed the software and connected to another station. Once it connected, I just terminated the connection. I probably should play around with it some more but I didn't want to tie up the system with me playing around when there might be people out there who really need it (when I am screwing around with it). |
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Quoted:
OK then how about someone coming up, or posting a link, a "Packet for Dummies", OR "APRS for Dummies" that explains what you can do and what equipment you need to do it with as 444 has indicated. If I can do all that without adding a bunch of new equipment maybe I can figure out how to get into our local packet group. I think I said that right? Sarge I typed in "APRS for Dummies and I got back a bunch of stuff including THIS I didn't read it so hopefully it can help you out. THIS is the do-all, end-all website for APRS. THIS is aprs.fi, which is probably the biggest website where you can view APRS stations on the web. You can also do this same thing locally without an internet connection. Actually running software to do this yourself also allows messaging and all that. Here is another thing you can do with APRS (I have mentioned this before). Our local ARES group provided communications for a foot race yesterday. Many of the hams involved had radios equipped with APRS trackers. In addition, I placed a tracker in each of two police cars. One of the police cars escorted the runners through the race course from the front, and the other police car followed behind the last runner. The command post is located in the local EMS stations training room which is equipped with a projector. So, we brought up aprs.fi on a laptop which was connected to the projector. So, in the command post, the race officials could see the progress of the race throughout the entire race. In addition if one of the hams along the course reported an emergency, we could see on the screen exactly where he was. This seems to have a significant WOW factor for the race officials and shows something that we as hams can do beyond just standing there with a 2m HT. |
| For APRS software consider Direwolf software modem and APRSISCE/32 for display. Both are free and work very good. |
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Will an android tablet work instead of a android phone for APRS? I would think so. I can tell you that I have a couple of the AP-510 APRS trackers and I can pair them using Bluetooth to my Google Nexus 7 Android based tablet and APRS Droid and it works great. I don't know about any other application. You know, another aspect of APRS is that you can do APRS using only a cell phone with no radio (on your end). There are various APRS apps out there that beacon and message and all that. but instead of transmitting the information on 144.390, the information is simply uploaded to the internet. You show up on websites like aprs.fi just like any other APRS station. And, if you have a local iGate that transmits from internet to RF, you will also show up on regular RF based APRS systems. We have such an iGate here locally. I am not sure, but I think that APRS Droid does that. My Nexus 7 doesn't have a GPS, so I have never tried it. I do have an iPhone APRS app called Open APRS that does it and I have used it here and there. I sometimes turn it on when I am at work. Several local guys regularly use cell phone based APRS. |