Posted: 12/21/2013 3:04:09 PM EDT
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Looking for some advise on setting up some GMRS radios for my family. While I plan on taking the tech test next month, I know that the rest of my family will not want to take that step. I kinda half way understand the draw backs of GMRS, like I said I am still pretty new to all this. Seems like the big advantage is holding only one license for the family. My goals are to be able to have a radio in my wifes car, one at our house, and one in my car, also would like to have a few HT (depending on how every thing works those might serve for the car radios). We live in the mountains, so I understand that terrain will play a big part in our communication plan. Right now my job has me all over the county all day long and my wife is usually within 5-10 miles of our shop and other family members homes. This is while we are working. When at home my other family members are about 5 miles away, and a few friends that are pushing 10-20 miles. I do live next to a large mountain that you can see from anywhere in town, so my hope is to hike to the top and see who I can reach. Like I said my goals would be to stay in touch with everyone should the phone systems go down. Our town is not that large, so I dont know how may other people are using the GMRS radios, nor if there are any repeaters set up in our area. I do plan on picking up a scanner in the next week and seeing who is broadcasting, but I have heard that traffic will increase during times of emergency. I know a lot of the blister pack radios come with GMRS already set up, but do they cover all the channels avalible? My though would be to use the lesser used ones, and have more power to broadcast with better antennas. Right now I have been looking at the http://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-UV-5R-136-174-400-480-Dual-Band/dp/B007H4VT7A/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1387669805&sr=8-3&keywords=ham+radio due to there low cost, but would be willing to pay around 100.00 a quality HT. Not sure about a mobile set, my first thought was to just get a HAM radio and program it to the GMRS frequency, but after some more reading that seems to be illegal. Thanks for the help. |
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That radio is not Part accepted to operate on the GMRS freq's by law (Federal)
This radio and others are made for the GMRS service there are others too...I'll let the GMRS pros fill in the blanks 
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I just got the uv-5r+ delivered yesterday. I am on the same path as you with the same thoughts. Just reading the ham 101 thread by ar-Jedi in another tab. I have a pair of moto talk about distance radios that I've had for over a decade and have never used. Just bought new batteries and low and behold, I need an FCC license to operate them...so for the last day and a half I'm trying to get up to speed.
Others far wiser will answer, but from what I've found, it's not legal to operate these uv-5 ham radios for GMRS. They can be used low power on the GMRS freqs, but because it was born as hams they have to stay hams...part 90 vs part 95 stuff. I did find my old FCC RTO card from 1989 when I was a CAP cadet and it says it's good for a lifetime! I think I'm going to leave my uv-5r+ alone and get the GMRS 85 buck license for the heck of it...ordered a ham beginners book last night on Amazon that should be here Monday... |
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/170954201158
If you're doing GMRS for the family, a simpler, lower cost radio would be better. You'll need the savings to pay for the repeater that you'll need to get the kind of coverage you want. Know anyone with property on that mountaintop, existing tower there, etc? Quoted:
Others far wiser will answer, but from what I've found, it's not legal to operate these uv-5 ham radios for GMRS. They can be used low power on the GMRS freqs, but because it was born as hams they have to stay hams...part 90 vs part 95 stuff. UV-5R is a Part 90 radio, not an amateur (Part 97) radio. There's some dissent as GMRS is a Part 95 service, but bazillions of Part 90 radios are used on GMRS, and as the technical specs for Part 90 exceed those for 95 I've never known it to be an issue in other than internet theory. |
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Not to hi-jack but I was thinking something similar. Although I passed my Tech exam yesterday, I don't imagine my wife would get it quite to easily enough to pass. She's just not much for technology. It'd be nice to have the GMRS available for emergencies. Anyway, I figure the typical GMRS are rated for 2-miles and in actuality MIGHT give you a mile if you are standing in a field and the other guy is also in the same field.
So with the UV-5R and similar HT's....do they boost that distance to the 25 miles + that they give to the VHF/UHF? Thanks -Emt1581 |
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So with the UV-5R and similar HT's....do they boost that distance to the 25 miles + that they give to the VHF/UHF? Quoted:
So with the UV-5R and similar HT's....do they boost that distance to the 25 miles + that they give to the VHF/UHF? No, the UV-5R does not and cannot suspend the laws of physics. Quoted:
Anyway, I figure the typical GMRS are rated for 2-miles and in actuality MIGHT give you a mile if you are standing in a field and the other guy is also in the same field. The "typical GMRS" is a POS bubble pack FRS/GMRS combo radio that probably puts out about 150 milliwatts, into a crappy FRS compliant antenna, and received on a similarly crappy antenna and receiver at the other end. Get some reasonable radios, if just those cheap Baofengs I linked to, and you'll do a bit better. Not 25 miles better, probably an order of magnitude lower, but better than bubble pack FRS. |
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No, the UV-5R does not and cannot suspend the laws of physics. Quoted:
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So with the UV-5R and similar HT's....do they boost that distance to the 25 miles + that they give to the VHF/UHF? No, the UV-5R does not and cannot suspend the laws of physics. I don't understand... 
-Emt1581 |
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I don't understand...
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So with the UV-5R and similar HT's....do they boost that distance to the 25 miles + that they give to the VHF/UHF? No, the UV-5R does not and cannot suspend the laws of physics. I don't understand...
No handheld radios can communicate over a 25 mile path directly, unless you're talking mountaintop to mountaintop or some other extremely atypical terrain or signal paths. |
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No handheld radios can communicate over a 25 mile path directly, unless you're talking mountaintop to mountaintop or some other extremely atypical terrain or signal paths. I saw vids online and guys claiming they were hitting 25-50 miles... from what you're saying I'm guessing they meant they were hitting repeaters and their transmissions were just making it that far...yes? -Emt1581 |
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I sure would like to here straight answers, no sarcasm in the radio field. im just about sick of nerds being all snippy about this shit professional, courteous language would be nice. thanks to all that have provided helpful answers. some of us are newbies. There is a lot to know and I only started reading stuff last night and today. Honestly, I was thinking earlier this AM that I'd use my new radio on the no test GMRS freqs until I got my tech cert....you know, so I could do something more than listen to the weather noaa broadcast. Honestly, I don't understand why you couldn't...as long as you were licensed and observed the freq and tx power rules. I got to the point where I said, eh, screw it. I can play with those Motorola talkabout distance radios with the license and just read up on the tech cert basics. |
but will do all I can to help.
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Thanks for the info, guess the only way to really know is get a few and try them out. I know there are towers on top of the mountain, but unsure what it would cost to rent space or if that is available. As far as repeaters go, I have heard its north of 1000.00 to get one going. Kinda sounds like it might not be the best option for me at this time unless there is a cheaper way to do it. Worst come to worst I can just use the GMRS radios for hunting trips, and tell the wife I will buy her a day at the spa if she passes her tech exam. I know Baofeng is not the best quality radios, but for the price it might be worth trying that package out just to see. I am assuming I can upgrade the antenna on those radios to help with some distance. Would 5 miles be realistic if the antennas were upgrade? What about mounting a antenna on the roof of a house, or small tower, kinda like the HAMs operators would have. I would like to get a external antenna for a scanner anyways, would it be able to server both? |
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I sure would like to here straight answers,no sarcasm in the radio field. im just about sick of nerds being all snippy about this shit professional, courteous language would be nice. thanks to all that have provided helpful answers. some of us are newbies. just highlighting a few things... carry on! |
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Thanks for the info, guess the only way to really know is get a few and try them out. I know Baofeng is not the best quality radios, but for the price it might be worth trying that package out just to see. I am assuming I can upgrade the antenna on those radios to help with some distance. Would 5 miles be realistic if the antennas were upgrade? What about mounting a antenna on the roof of a house, or small tower, kinda like the HAMs operators would have. I would like to get a external antenna for a scanner anyways, would it be able to server both? Quoted:
Thanks for the info, guess the only way to really know is get a few and try them out. I know Baofeng is not the best quality radios, but for the price it might be worth trying that package out just to see. I am assuming I can upgrade the antenna on those radios to help with some distance. Would 5 miles be realistic if the antennas were upgrade? What about mounting a antenna on the roof of a house, or small tower, kinda like the HAMs operators would have. I would like to get a external antenna for a scanner anyways, would it be able to server both? Quoted:
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I sure would like to here straight answers,no sarcasm in the radio field. im just about sick of nerds being all snippy about this shit professional, courteous language would be nice. thanks to all that have provided helpful answers. some of us are newbies. just highlighting a few things... carry on! GCW's frustrated because the same questions get asked over, and over, and over, and over. And the basics (which is what you're asking about) are all in the Ham Radio 101 thread stickied at the top of the page. I'm new, too (new licensee as of 21 Nov 13), but I'll see if I can explain this. VHF and UHF (GMRS is UHF) are line of sight frequencies. You might get a little "bending" (called edge diffraction IIRC) if you transmit past a sharp edge like a cliff. Assuming a person is 6' tall, the horizon is approx. 7 mi. away. At the risk of stating the obvious, the horizon is not a sharp edge. This range can be reduced by things that absorb (e.g. heavy forestation), or block (e.g. buildings, mountains) radio waves. And it can be extended by being on top of a hill or having an antenna mounted up high in a tree, tower, or on top of a building. With VHF/UHF the biggest gains in distance are going to be caused by the location of the antenna, and the second biggest gains are going to be caused by the type of antenna. If anyone with more experience that I have wants to correct or expand on what I've written, please feel free. I still have a lot to learn as well. ETA link to Ham Radio 101 |
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ARFlink from last week discussing GMRS
Links from YAHOO for GMRS ar15.com a great deal of what you're asking may be answered in those? I'm not very bright, but a large percentage of the guys here are! It's hard to explain this stuff in simple terms, 'cause Physics ain't easy to begin with (for most) |
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OP,
I've set up a similar situation with my family. We're using some $100+ Marine VHF / GMRS radios from Cobra and some copper J-pole antennas in the attics of our homes. We easily reach the 5-10 miles between our houses and office. I've hit them from across the valley (~20 miles) when I can get some elevation. We've got some in-laws on the other side of a mountain that we're working on ways to communicate with now. The little bubble-pack radios aren't going to get very good range in most cases. |
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OP,
You asked about GMRS Type Accepted mobile radios for your home and car - member CJan_NH has used these to great effect. From his thread: "The Icom F2821 is a 45w, durable, full-featured public safety radio. The units in this listing have the 400-470MHz UHF frequency split, and they are squeaky clean for GMRS, biz band, and of course 70cm ham." To stay "squeaky clean" in the eyes of the law, the Powerwerx GU-16s offer a "buy-it-now" option that also lets you use common Wouxun accessories. CJan_NH uses surplus Icom LMR handhelds, which would likely offer greater quality at the cost of, well, cost. And availability. EDIT: I had not seen these before, and I must say they appear most excellent - a submersible dual-bander that might actually have a decent antenna that might actually run close to 5W. I couldn't help but also notice that they offer a submersible speaker mic with an audio-out jack - you can likely use an aux cable to jack that into electronic ear pro, a la Bcauz3y's ear pro setup - scroll down for a much more weather-resistant setup. |
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EDIT: I had not seen these before, and I must say they appear most excellent - a submersible dual-bander that might actually have a decent antenna that might actually run close to 5W. I couldn't help but also notice that they offer a submersible speaker mic with an audio-out jack - you can likely use an aux cable to jack that into electronic ear pro, a la Bcauz3y's ear pro setup - scroll down for a much more weather-resistant setup. Quoted:
EDIT: I had not seen these before, and I must say they appear most excellent - a submersible dual-bander that might actually have a decent antenna that might actually run close to 5W. I couldn't help but also notice that they offer a submersible speaker mic with an audio-out jack - you can likely use an aux cable to jack that into electronic ear pro, a la Bcauz3y's ear pro setup - scroll down for a much more weather-resistant setup. I think they're great. They include both AC & DC chargers, a rechargeable battery and a AA battery tray, and receive Weather Band. |
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These discussions get very interesting sometimes…I don't mind reiterating the GMRS stuff on a weekly basis (at least their is more activity on this forum when it comes to GMRS than their is Radio Reference).
The only way to get distance out of GMRS is to get either height or a repeater that is at height. Most of the bubble pack radios aren't setup for repeaters (I think only 2 are and are both sold by Motorola for $75-$110 a pair. Powerwerx has that little Wouxun GMRS radio…or pay more for commercial type accepted radios from Kenwood, Icom, and my personal favorite Motorola (unless you buy used). Best bang for the buck while staying 100% legal (if you can get the programming stuff and batteries) are Motorola GP300's for HT's and some of the Kenwood mobiles. The Icom F21GM's aren't bad radios either, just a little harder to come by however they are field programmable for different PL's and repeaters (I prefer the F21 myself). Most of the bubble pack radios won't have removable antennas, all of the commercial radio based radios will. The commercial radios (even the 20 year old ones) will be of better construction and way better receivers when compared to a bubble pack or Chinese import. If you want to talk GMRS repeater's, feel free to PM me since I'm helping several people here in Lubbock build them and I'd be glad to give suggestions and try and answer any questions you might have. |
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Thanks for the links to the radios. Turns out our shop is upgrading the truck radios since the FCC is changing what ever they are changing. So I ended up with a free Motorola CM200. I have had it for a few weeks now, and was unsure what I would use it for. I am assuming it would be a good GMRS radio for a mobile type rig (ammo can set up?) I will try and snag the other ones as they are changed out. I still think I would like to go with a HAM mobile for my truck, but this might fit the bill for my wifes car. The only problem is programing. I have found a few links on ebay where you ship them the radio and they program it for 15.00. How could I tell what its already programed for? I know these topics get beat to death, and I appreciate the info and the link to the 101 guide, some how I missed the GRMS stuff in that one. Thanks again for the help guys. |
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OP, I've set up a similar situation with my family. We're using some $100+ Marine VHF / GMRS radios from Cobra and some copper J-pole antennas in the attics of our homes. We easily reach the 5-10 miles between our houses and office. I've hit them from across the valley (~20 miles) when I can get some elevation. We've got some in-laws on the other side of a mountain that we're working on ways to communicate with now. The little bubble-pack radios aren't going to get very good range in most cases. One thing to keep in mind, as we repeat frequently it's strongly advised NOT to bootleg on marine VHF channels/frequencies. USCG and FCC actively are looking for marine band bootleggers for enforcement action, in part because it's so easy to do versus other kinds of enforcement. Those radios work on GMRS which is what you want to use on those. |
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I just submitted my request for my GMRS callsign on the FCC webpage. LIke I said, I have a pair of Moto Talkabout Distance radios that I've had since 1999 and never used, but a pair of cheap midlands, again, that I've never used, so I'll be playing with those.
Funny thing, I was looking at the Amazon page for those UV-5r+ radios and they say there that they can do FRS/GMRS/Murs an in the questions section someone answered that you can use them legally on GMRS, and then to add more of the same confusion, Miklor says you can't: FCC CERTIFICATION and TYPE ACCEPTANCE (U.S.)
11 Q: Is this radio FCC Part 90 certified? (Commercial) A: Yes. It is certified for Licensed Commercial operation. FCC ID. ZP5BF-5R and ZVMUV-E5 12. Q: Is this radio approved for Ham Radio use? (Ham Radio) A: Yes. It may be used legally by Licensed Hams on any Part_97 allocation or service in the U.S. Note: This radio is not certified for FRS, GMRS or MURS operation in the US. Consult your country's regulations regarding proper use and licensing. |
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I just submitted my request for my GMRS callsign on the FCC webpage. LIke I said, I have a pair of Moto Talkabout Distance radios that I've had since 1999 and never used, but a pair of cheap midlands, again, that I've never used, so I'll be playing with those. Funny thing, I was looking at the Amazon page for those UV-5r+ radios and they say there that they can do FRS/GMRS/Murs an in the questions section someone answered that you can use them legally on GMRS, and then to add more of the same confusion, Miklor says you can't: [div style='margin-left: 40px;']FCC CERTIFICATION and TYPE ACCEPTANCE (U.S.) 11 Q: Is this radio FCC Part 90 certified? (Commercial) A: Yes. It is certified for Licensed Commercial operation. FCC ID. ZP5BF-5R and ZVMUV-E5 12. Q: Is this radio approved for Ham Radio use? (Ham Radio) A: Yes. It may be used legally by Licensed Hams on any Part_97 allocation or service in the U.S. Note: This radio is not certified for FRS, GMRS or MURS operation in the US. Consult your country's regulations regarding proper use and licensing. It's a case of just cause it can do it doesn't mean it's legally accepted for it. Although some will make the argument that Part 90 meets and exceeds Part 95A regulations (which I even will since narrowbanding left so many good radios doorstops unless they are being pressed into ham/GMRS use) but that's a debate for another forum. |
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One thing to keep in mind, as we repeat frequently it's strongly advised NOT to bootleg on marine VHF channels/frequencies. USCG and FCC actively are looking for marine band bootleggers for enforcement action, in part because it's so easy to do versus other kinds of enforcement. Those radios work on GMRS which is what you want to use on those. Agreed. Seems there was a case in Florida recently where a hunter got a hefty fine or some jail time. Only use the Marine VHF band if you're on a boat! |
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Agreed. Seems there was a case in Florida recently where a hunter got a hefty fine or some jail time. Only use the Marine VHF band if you're on a boat! Is marine VHF the tard band now? Lulz Followed a link on Google looking at the Marine Band VHF and GMRS dual band HT and found this. Buy a GMRS license or get a ham ticket. Bootlegging will get you a huge fine if caught or you won't have comms come SHTF as you never used them prior to the event and do not grasp the limitations of the system you chose. |
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Quoted: It's a case of just cause it can do it doesn't mean it's legally accepted for it. Although some will make the argument that Part 90 meets and exceeds Part 95A regulations (which I even will since narrowbanding left so many good radios doorstops unless they are being pressed into ham/GMRS use) but that's a debate for another forum. There's no debate to be had. Meets requirements or not, it hasn't been type accepted by the FCC, so it is illegal to use on a Part 95 frequency(or for that matter, any Part 90 frequency that you do not have a license for or permission from the licensee to use). Don't let that stop you from emailing the manufacturer to pester them into submitting paperwork for Part 95 operations though  |
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There's no debate to be had. Meets requirements or not, it hasn't been type accepted by the FCC, so it is illegal to use on a Part 95 frequency(or for that matter, any Part 90 frequency that you do not have a license for or permission from the licensee to use). Don't let that stop you from emailing the manufacturer to pester them into submitting paperwork for Part 95 operations though
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It's a case of just cause it can do it doesn't mean it's legally accepted for it. Although some will make the argument that Part 90 meets and exceeds Part 95A regulations (which I even will since narrowbanding left so many good radios doorstops unless they are being pressed into ham/GMRS use) but that's a debate for another forum. There's no debate to be had. Meets requirements or not, it hasn't been type accepted by the FCC, so it is illegal to use on a Part 95 frequency(or for that matter, any Part 90 frequency that you do not have a license for or permission from the licensee to use). Don't let that stop you from emailing the manufacturer to pester them into submitting paperwork for Part 95 operations though
I guess my complaint, as a complete noob, it's not very clear what is and isn't acceptable. Trying to muddle through all the conflicting information is aggravating. That's why I just punted... |
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I can understand your frustration, its about as clear as mud...
the stinker for me is MURS, we use it on the farm...but the availability of low-cost hand-held and even base stations is really discouraging! Why is it, that I can buy a UHF 16ch GMRS radio for $18 but the VHF(MURS & type accepted) brother is near $100? Ham radio fills some of the voids, if everyone you want to chat with has a ticket....GMRS works pretty well for those who don't but it may include you buying and installing a repeater for use in your AO...and then you are kinds hamstrung to just your AO, where Ham can get you outside that bubble....back and forth--ARFCOM will say 'buy both" Best bet is to sincerely define your Needs (not wants) and go from there...be realistic in your goals, and move forward (baby steps are advised). edit: spelling |
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Is marine VHF the tard band now? Quoted:
Agreed. Seems there was a case in Florida recently where a hunter got a hefty fine or some jail time. Only use the Marine VHF band if you're on a boat! Is marine VHF the tard band now? Has been for a little while but getting worse. |