[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SHTF roving wireless server (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/16/2012 5:29:06 PM EDT
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I posted this in GD and a few had interest , so I'm going to post it here to hopefully get a little more thought.
I've been passing around the idea of a SHTF server of sorts ,in case of a large scale disaster like Katrina or something that would cause cell phones as well as landlines to be wiped out. Everyone now adays has laptops, cell phones and a whole host of gadgets with wifi and cellular access, but in a true emergency, these things are either overly congested, or wiped out. Enter my idea : A local WAN system. Now, here's where my idea enters : Using one of the new Raspberry Pi 700mhz ARM mini-computers mounted on a tethered balloon or blimp at around 1000'-3000' AGL. A system would weigh less than 1 pound yet be able to operate for 1 or 2 days easily. Using the raspberry pi system with LAMP installed, you could very easily have a intranet of sorts set up so anyone with a wifi device could connect to it and get access to information about what's going on. Granted there would be issues with 2.4ghz systems, so range could be somewhat limited, however anyone with a yagi & knowledge of where the wan is located could get access to it 20+ miles away relatively easy. If you opted for a 900mhz system, you could get a range of 50+ miles or so easily enough. Thoughts? |
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I posted this in GD and a few had interest , so I'm going to post it here to hopefully get a little more thought. I've been passing around the idea of a SHTF server of sorts ,in case of a large scale disaster like Katrina or something that would cause cell phones as well as landlines to be wiped out. Everyone now adays has laptops, cell phones and a whole host of gadgets with wifi and cellular access, but in a true emergency, these things are either overly congested, or wiped out. Enter my idea : A local WAN system. Now, here's where my idea enters : Using one of the new Raspberry Pi 700mhz ARM mini-computers mounted on a tethered balloon or blimp at around 1000'-3000' AGL. A system would weigh less than 1 pound yet be able to operate for 1 or 2 days easily. Using the raspberry pi system with LAMP installed, you could very easily have a intranet of sorts set up so anyone with a wifi device could connect to it and get access to information about what's going on. Granted there would be issues with 2.4ghz systems, so range could be somewhat limited, however anyone with a yagi & knowledge of where the wan is located could get access to it 20+ miles away relatively easy. If you opted for a 900mhz system, you could get a range of 50+ miles or so easily enough. Thoughts? I think having a backup system in place is a great idea. There are other ways this can be done also, setting up a mesh net with high gain antenna's on building tops can cover a large area, providing data services, and even Internet access if only one mesh node has access and you want it to. It is something you might want to look into. I am currently working on a mesh net here, I have done small scale tests and have had great success. The nice thing is they are self configuring, and use very little power. They operate on WIFI 2.4ghz but it is amazing the coverage that you can get with some high gain antenna's. This may give you some ideas, I am working on adding a mesh network node and a wireless access point in my vehicle. This will hopefully give me a decent coverage area from my house, at 54mbs I can remotely operate my HF radio with winlink2000 and have data and email coverage to anywhere, independent from the Internet and from reliance on the power company. Combine with a 24DBi parabolic dish for emergency's I should gain even more coverage. Need more coverage, just add another node to cover the gap, I am currently using Lyksys WRT-54G routers running a linux based meshing software. Of course running any part 15 device with modifications are illegal, I am using the lower WIFI channels for the amateur bands, and the software is configured to send ICMP packets with my call to be compliant. The access point is running the lynksys firmware and the SSID is changed to my call. |
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I've thought about the same thing several times using several methods. Instead of hoisting the server itself up there where you will need a battery and the server CPU and storage will be limited hoist a POE powered AP up there. The network cable can provide the connectivity and power. Or hoist up a wifi repeater and just run power up to it.
Have to weigh the difference between the weight of a battery vs the length of wire that weighs the same, and then pulling the battery down every so often to change it out. I would stay away from 900mhz as that is less common and everyone would need that particular equipment to hit the AP. The wifi range is limited but better than nothing. Anyway, lots of varying way to do this. Sounds fun. -Foxxz |
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I've thought about the same thing several times using several methods. Instead of hoisting the server itself up there where you will need a battery and the server CPU and storage will be limited hoist a POE powered AP up there. The network cable can provide the connectivity and power. Or hoist up a wifi repeater and just run power up to it. Have to weigh the difference between the weight of a battery vs the length of wire that weighs the same, and then pulling the battery down every so often to change it out. I would stay away from 900mhz as that is less common and everyone would need that particular equipment to hit the AP. The wifi range is limited but better than nothing. Anyway, lots of varying way to do this. Sounds fun. -Foxxz Depending on how much power the wifi system needs, I could power something so far (looking at requirements on paper) for approximately 48 hours. If you have it turn off between the hours of 1am to day 6am you extend it even more, or have other power saving schemes. |
| Actually the same concept can be accomplished using a mesh node and a battery, since the mesh node is effectively a repeater, it will repeat the signal over a large area, hooking a wireless router into any auxiliary mesh node will allow wireless access to the mesh. This will allow you to host the server anywhere in the mesh, and the mesh will advertise all services available if you want. It is basically the same concept of high speed data connectivity, but is entirely scalable and allow the use of equipment that is laying around and most people will not be using, since this scenario there will be no Internet. |
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I take it you've never been in a SHTF situation?
No electicity... that means you can't keep your laptop charged. Even if you can, the cell phone system is out or overloaded. While it's running. If it's running. And perhaps the servers are down, too.... I've been there, done that. So, you can surf the net... how are they going to pay you for your SHTF internet service? The local banks are all shut down, they can't access your account info. Your credit cards go tits up. OK, but suppose you can solve all of that, then what? So you have internet service. You're deep in Indian country, looking over your shoulder at all times, all of the local stores are out of everything, or they are locked up and guarded. Your problem is food, water, keeping your shelter, and keeping others from "redistributing your wealth". With all of that, I didn't have time for email. Just saying. |
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My response is geared more for a recoverable incident, and not a "The Chair is against the wall" type incident. But suppose a mesh net set into tree's with solar panels and small batteries, they would have the ability to provide high speed data coverage between a neighbourhood. The ability to pass messages, have VOIP coverage and IP camera's for perimeter security, all from a bunch of useless equipment that no one is using. Of course power will always be an issue, wood gas, solar, wind, hydroelectric are well within the reach of reasonably intelligent and resourceful people.
Of course thinking back to going through the riots in southern California, the short term goal is to survive the initial wave, then plan to extend that survival. |
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I posted this in GD and a few had interest , so I'm going to post it here to hopefully get a little more thought. I've been passing around the idea of a SHTF server of sorts ,in case of a large scale disaster like Katrina or something that would cause cell phones as well as landlines to be wiped out. Everyone now adays has laptops, cell phones and a whole host of gadgets with wifi and cellular access, but in a true emergency, these things are either overly congested, or wiped out. Enter my idea : A local WAN system. Now, here's where my idea enters : Using one of the new Raspberry Pi 700mhz ARM mini-computers mounted on a tethered balloon or blimp at around 1000'-3000' AGL. A system would weigh less than 1 pound yet be able to operate for 1 or 2 days easily. Using the raspberry pi system with LAMP installed, you could very easily have a intranet of sorts set up so anyone with a wifi device could connect to it and get access to information about what's going on. Granted there would be issues with 2.4ghz systems, so range could be somewhat limited, however anyone with a yagi & knowledge of where the wan is located could get access to it 20+ miles away relatively easy. If you opted for a 900mhz system, you could get a range of 50+ miles or so easily enough. Thoughts? I think having a backup system in place is a great idea. There are other ways this can be done also, setting up a mesh net with high gain antenna's on building tops can cover a large area, providing data services, and even Internet access if only one mesh node has access and you want it to. It is something you might want to look into. I am currently working on a mesh net here, I have done small scale tests and have had great success. The nice thing is they are self configuring, and use very little power. They operate on WIFI 2.4ghz but it is amazing the coverage that you can get with some high gain antenna's. This may give you some ideas, I am working on adding a mesh network node and a wireless access point in my vehicle. This will hopefully give me a decent coverage area from my house, at 54mbs I can remotely operate my HF radio with winlink2000 and have data and email coverage to anywhere, independent from the Internet and from reliance on the power company. Combine with a 24DBi parabolic dish for emergency's I should gain even more coverage. Need more coverage, just add another node to cover the gap, I am currently using Lyksys WRT-54G routers running a linux based meshing software. Of course running any part 15 device with modifications are illegal, I am using the lower WIFI channels for the amateur bands, and the software is configured to send ICMP packets with my call to be compliant. The access point is running the lynksys firmware and the SSID is changed to my call. What firmware are you running on the WRT-54G? I have 5 of them I have been playing with, a couple currently have the HSMM-MESH firmware installed, but not really doing anything with it at the moment. I have experimented with setting up repeaters for my sprint 4g hotspot and a private mesh as well. I have not delved into the antenna's yet. |
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I am using HSMM Mesh firmware on the routers.
Amazingly simple deployment, I have a sever running on mine with web, ftp, smtp, and weather radar imaging being hosted. I have run into problems with the PBX server for voice over IP. It has something to do with the NAT routing and server administration. I am lost on setup of the pbx server, so that is on the back burner now. I was looking for a way to use OSLR on a laptop to gain access to the mesh, but by plugging a standard router WAN port to the LAN port of you mesh node you will have instant wireless access to the mesh network, and of course the WAN port of the mesh node to a router LAN that is connected to the Internet and you are bridged to the inter webs. |
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I take it you've never been in a SHTF situation? No electicity... that means you can't keep your laptop charged. Even if you can, the cell phone system is out or overloaded. While it's running. If it's running. And perhaps the servers are down, too.... I've been there, done that. So, you can surf the net... how are they going to pay you for your SHTF internet service? The local banks are all shut down, they can't access your account info. Your credit cards go tits up. OK, but suppose you can solve all of that, then what? So you have internet service. You're deep in Indian country, looking over your shoulder at all times, all of the local stores are out of everything, or they are locked up and guarded. Your problem is food, water, keeping your shelter, and keeping others from "redistributing your wealth". With all of that, I didn't have time for email. Just saying. Like I said - A hurricane katrina type event. Not everyone died, but some manuals on how to prevent dysentery or something like that would have been quite effective had people had access to something like that. The idea wouldn't be to make money, just to save lives in a situation like this. I'm not talking about internet service but intranet service. |
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Gotcha. The only reason I mentioned money, you have to pay for the equipment. If the cost is minimal, well, good.
So, you are not expecting it to connect to the "outside world"? Katrina... would have been good for neighborhoods to be able to warn others of the out of town police seizing guns. |
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I pretty much came to the same conclusion about trying to access the HSMM mesh from my laptop, just plug in another wireless router on the LAN side and you're good to go.
I have played with VOIP just a little bit to my Android, and that's another thing I would like to figure out as well. With the above mentioned wifi on the lan side and a VOIP server, smart phones preloaded with the right app could talk on the local node as well as on the mesh. If you had the same setup on the other side of the mesh, you could in theory place calls from one node to another, using a smart phone with no cell service. Not sure how practical this really is, but it is fun to think about and experiment with. |
| Check this out, looks like a lot of the work has already been done for you http://wiki.daviddarts.com/PirateBox |
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I take it you've never been in a SHTF situation? No electicity... that means you can't keep your laptop charged. Even if you can, the cell phone system is out or overloaded. While it's running. If it's running. And perhaps the servers are down, too.... I've been there, done that. So, you can surf the net... how are they going to pay you for your SHTF internet service? The local banks are all shut down, they can't access your account info. Your credit cards go tits up. OK, but suppose you can solve all of that, then what? So you have internet service. You're deep in Indian country, looking over your shoulder at all times, all of the local stores are out of everything, or they are locked up and guarded. Your problem is food, water, keeping your shelter, and keeping others from "redistributing your wealth". With all of that, I didn't have time for email. Just saying. what a debbie downer. 
anyway, i thought you were banned? ar-jedi |
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Gotcha. The only reason I mentioned money, you have to pay for the equipment. If the cost is minimal, well, good. So, you are not expecting it to connect to the "outside world"? Katrina... would have been good for neighborhoods to be able to warn others of the out of town police seizing guns. In my situation I am not expecting to have internet, but I am going to be setup to send email to the outside world, or hooked up through a P2P connection via winlink 2000. My ultimate goal is to try and tie the email server into winlink to provide automatic email. If internet is up then I may utilize it, but if it is independent from the internet it is much more difficult to shut down. It would require someone to physically remove the equipment to disable it. And lets just say that would make a whole new meaning for network security. 
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Like many have said, HSMM-MESH is pretty much g2g out of the box. The hardware is cheap, the firmware is free. The nodes (or whatever they are called) auto discover each other. Being a ham you can use some good antennas hooked up to a 300mW radio. The guys on that website are getting 10 miles simplex. The more people you have the larger the network.
BUT Shannon's Law still applies. So depending how many users you are looking at supporting will limit your connection speeds. I *think* Wifi channels 1, 6, 14 are the only ones that don't over lap. You would need to plan out your placement but a little extra thought could really make your lan work better. |
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Like many have said, HSMM-MESH is pretty much g2g out of the box. The hardware is cheap, the firmware is free. The nodes (or whatever they are called) auto discover each other. Being a ham you can use some good antennas hooked up to a 300mW radio. The guys on that website are getting 10 miles simplex. The more people you have the larger the network. BUT Shannon's Law still applies. So depending how many users you are looking at supporting will limit your connection speeds. I *think* Wifi channels 1, 6, 14 are the only ones that don't over lap. You would need to plan out your placement but a little extra thought could really make your lan work better. I think you guys are right in that this may be much more effective than something with just a high altitude. My problem is here locally, the highest point in the area I can get to isn't all that high. A moored balloon @ 500ft would get me above almost everything in the area. However something like that costs, and it might just be easier to develop a mesh network using nodes with a moderate battery backup and solar panels. |
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You can still use your balloon idea, here is a typical node. No power needed (power over lan).
What kind of distance are you looking to cover? Here was an eye opener for me. If people (sheepole) aren't willing to listen now and take action in setting this up now, then they will have no idea what to do when SHTF. They will be trying to find food, not communication. So with that in mind you will have a better idea of coverage you are looking for. If Jim, Bob, and Joe are down with spending the $10 for a router and hour on flashing the firmware then you will know what channels and where your nodes need to be placed. I also have a plan of putting a router in a 7.62 LINKED ammo can, so they can be deployable units. plus they will be needed for my UAV 
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You can still use your balloon idea, here is a typical node. No power needed (power over lan). What kind of distance are you looking to cover? Here was an eye opener for me. If people (sheepole) aren't willing to listen now and take action in setting this up now, then they will have no idea what to do when SHTF. They will be trying to find food, not communication. So with that in mind you will have a better idea of coverage you are looking for. If Jim, Bob, and Joe are down with spending the $10 for a router and hour on flashing the firmware then you will know what channels and where your nodes need to be placed. I also have a plan of putting a router in a 7.62 LINKED ammo can, so they can be deployable units. plus they will be needed for my UAV
100 % agreed. They won't be able to use computers if there is no power. And what if electricity is on but the Internet access was disabled by the authorities and marshall law was declared? I'm not even sure HAM radios would be legal. |
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You can still use your balloon idea, here is a typical node. No power needed (power over lan). What kind of distance are you looking to cover? Here was an eye opener for me. If people (sheepole) aren't willing to listen now and take action in setting this up now, then they will have no idea what to do when SHTF. They will be trying to find food, not communication. So with that in mind you will have a better idea of coverage you are looking for. If Jim, Bob, and Joe are down with spending the $10 for a router and hour on flashing the firmware then you will know what channels and where your nodes need to be placed. I also have a plan of putting a router in a 7.62 LINKED ammo can, so they can be deployable units. plus they will be needed for my UAV
100 % agreed. They won't be able to use computers if there is no power. And what if electricity is on but the Internet access was disabled by the authorities and marshall law was declared? I'm not even sure HAM radios would be legal. Ham will still be legal if you look at everything from Katrina to the recent earthquake in VA that knocked out cell service, ham was relied on for message traffic. Now if we are talking Red Dawn style SHTF then no one really knows. It blows my mind how many "survivalist" have no comm plan or think that GMRS/CB radios will work. I have been quoted the "25 miles" range so many times. Over the internet it is hard to change peoples minds, get them into your shack and let them talk and turn some dials. Thats what hooked me and what I used to hook a few. /mindless rant Think of this... 4 x 50 cal ammo cans 8 x wifi routers 4 x ip cameras 4 x 12v batteries 4 x harbor freight $15 solar panels if you put 2 routers in each can. set one for a ch to use with your mesh network, and set the other for a non over laping ch to use as a wifi access point. You could then put these four boxes around your property from your computer you would be able to view each of the ip cameras as well as extend your network throughout your property. You could be able to check a wifi camera from anywhere on your property using a laptop or web browser on your phone. Then if your neighbors are "like minded" they could do the same and so on. /mindless crazy talk |
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You can still use your balloon idea, here is a typical node. No power needed (power over lan). What kind of distance are you looking to cover? Here was an eye opener for me. If people (sheepole) aren't willing to listen now and take action in setting this up now, then they will have no idea what to do when SHTF. They will be trying to find food, not communication. So with that in mind you will have a better idea of coverage you are looking for. If Jim, Bob, and Joe are down with spending the $10 for a router and hour on flashing the firmware then you will know what channels and where your nodes need to be placed. I also have a plan of putting a router in a 7.62 LINKED ammo can, so they can be deployable units. plus they will be needed for my UAV
100 % agreed. They won't be able to use computers if there is no power. And what if electricity is on but the Internet access was disabled by the authorities and marshall law was declared? I'm not even sure HAM radios would be legal. Ham will still be legal if you look at everything from Katrina to the recent earthquake in VA that knocked out cell service, ham was relied on for message traffic. Now if we are talking Red Dawn style SHTF then no one really knows. It blows my mind how many "survivalist" have no comm plan or think that GMRS/CB radios will work. I have been quoted the "25 miles" range so many times. Over the internet it is hard to change peoples minds, get them into your shack and let them talk and turn some dials. Thats what hooked me and what I used to hook a few. /mindless rant Think of this... 4 x 50 cal ammo cans 8 x wifi routers 4 x ip cameras 4 x 12v batteries 4 x harbor freight $15 solar panels if you put 2 routers in each can. set one for a ch to use with your mesh network, and set the other for a non over laping ch to use as a wifi access point. You could then put these four boxes around your property from your computer you would be able to view each of the ip cameras as well as extend your network throughout your property. You could be able to check a wifi camera from anywhere on your property using a laptop or web browser on your phone. Then if your neighbors are "like minded" they could do the same and so on. /mindless crazy talk There are other places to secure solar panels too if it was like Mad Max.
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I have found the IP camera's the be the most expensive part of the equation. Because of that I have not actually picked any up, but the concept above with ammo cans, batteries, solar panel and router, yeah that's what runs through my mind as well. Nice thing is you can create configurations and save the config files and then have different scenarios you could deploy to. I've got several routers, I could set up a network for use at say a CERT Field day to ease data collection of interested passers by and log event details, and then come home and easily upload a different set of config files and make these same 4 portable boxes into IP game cams, etc.. Same hardware, just different config files saved.
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I like the idea of a store and forward mailbox balloon tethered 1000-3000 feet. Make it drop box for messages or files. Some type of cube box or basketball size container with solar cells covering the outside would provide plenty of power for 24-7 operation for a QRP rig. A 3000 foot long wire antenna end fed would make a decent antenna.
I have given some thought on setting up on HF a PBBS. I have enough old hardware laying around to put one together. Will have to look I think I still have a version of DOS laying around. Hopefully it's not on 5-1/4 floppies LOL. A cheap little QRP rig would work for now and make it a challenge for ARFCOM hams. If there is enough interest I will work on it. Don't like building things if they aren't going to be used. |
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You can still use your balloon idea, here is a typical node. No power needed (power over lan). What kind of distance are you looking to cover? Here was an eye opener for me. If people (sheepole) aren't willing to listen now and take action in setting this up now, then they will have no idea what to do when SHTF. They will be trying to find food, not communication. So with that in mind you will have a better idea of coverage you are looking for. If Jim, Bob, and Joe are down with spending the $10 for a router and hour on flashing the firmware then you will know what channels and where your nodes need to be placed. I also have a plan of putting a router in a 7.62 LINKED ammo can, so they can be deployable units. plus they will be needed for my UAV
100 % agreed. They won't be able to use computers if there is no power. And what if electricity is on but the Internet access was disabled by the authorities and marshall law was declared? I'm not even sure HAM radios would be legal. Ham will still be legal if you look at everything from Katrina to the recent earthquake in VA that knocked out cell service, ham was relied on for message traffic. Now if we are talking Red Dawn style SHTF then no one really knows. It blows my mind how many "survivalist" have no comm plan or think that GMRS/CB radios will work. I have been quoted the "25 miles" range so many times. Over the internet it is hard to change peoples minds, get them into your shack and let them talk and turn some dials. Thats what hooked me and what I used to hook a few. /mindless rant Think of this... 4 x 50 cal ammo cans 8 x wifi routers 4 x ip cameras 4 x 12v batteries 4 x harbor freight $15 solar panels if you put 2 routers in each can. set one for a ch to use with your mesh network, and set the other for a non over laping ch to use as a wifi access point. You could then put these four boxes around your property from your computer you would be able to view each of the ip cameras as well as extend your network throughout your property. You could be able to check a wifi camera from anywhere on your property using a laptop or web browser on your phone. Then if your neighbors are "like minded" they could do the same and so on. /mindless crazy talk Very interesting, this is very similar to a trail system made called the 'buckeye' camera. It's a mesh wifi camera system with built in solar pannels. They're pretty great as far as function goes, but run $800 per node. From a quick estimate these seem to be do-able for $150-$200 a node. |
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You can still use your balloon idea, here is a typical node. No power needed (power over lan). What kind of distance are you looking to cover? Here was an eye opener for me. If people (sheepole) aren't willing to listen now and take action in setting this up now, then they will have no idea what to do when SHTF. They will be trying to find food, not communication. So with that in mind you will have a better idea of coverage you are looking for. If Jim, Bob, and Joe are down with spending the $10 for a router and hour on flashing the firmware then you will know what channels and where your nodes need to be placed. I also have a plan of putting a router in a 7.62 LINKED ammo can, so they can be deployable units. plus they will be needed for my UAV
100 % agreed. They won't be able to use computers if there is no power. And what if electricity is on but the Internet access was disabled by the authorities and marshall law was declared? I'm not even sure HAM radios would be legal. Ham will still be legal if you look at everything from Katrina to the recent earthquake in VA that knocked out cell service, ham was relied on for message traffic. Now if we are talking Red Dawn style SHTF then no one really knows. It blows my mind how many "survivalist" have no comm plan or think that GMRS/CB radios will work. I have been quoted the "25 miles" range so many times. Over the internet it is hard to change peoples minds, get them into your shack and let them talk and turn some dials. Thats what hooked me and what I used to hook a few. /mindless rant Think of this... 4 x 50 cal ammo cans 8 x wifi routers 4 x ip cameras 4 x 12v batteries 4 x harbor freight $15 solar panels if you put 2 routers in each can. set one for a ch to use with your mesh network, and set the other for a non over laping ch to use as a wifi access point. You could then put these four boxes around your property from your computer you would be able to view each of the ip cameras as well as extend your network throughout your property. You could be able to check a wifi camera from anywhere on your property using a laptop or web browser on your phone. Then if your neighbors are "like minded" they could do the same and so on. /mindless crazy talk Very interesting, this is very similar to a trail system made called the 'buckeye' camera. It's a mesh wifi camera system with built in solar pannels. They're pretty great as far as function goes, but run $800 per node. From a quick estimate these seem to be do-able for $150-$200 a node. You may be able to do it for less, I have 2 routers converted to radio's, a wireless access point, a 12dbi vertical antenna, and a 24dbi parabolic dish. Total investment was around 75 bucks, so it is doable. I hit the thrift stores looking for nodes, and hit all my coworkers that if they find any laying around I will give them 10 bucks for them. I have about 3 more coming for free by working some trade deals for some old computer parts and monitors. |
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Very interesting, this is very similar to a trail system made called the 'buckeye' camera. It's a mesh wifi camera system with built in solar panels. They're pretty great as far as function goes, but run $800 per node. From a quick estimate these seem to be do-able for $150-$200 a node. The only reason I say you need 8 routers is so that you can also have wifi along with your mesh. you would really only need one per box. I want to put one by my local boat ramp. If you look on Amazon there are wifi cameras that can pan and tilt. the are something like 80 each or 130 for 2 I think. They are controlled over your web browser, they also have motion detectors and other cool tricks. There is a built in LAN port so you could plug it right into the router. Router––$40 Camera––$80 Ammo can––$10 solar––$15 12v batt-$20 <$200 and you have the ability to control the camera, a built in motion detector and it is still an acting node in your mesh so you can use it as a fill in between you and whoever else. |
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You can still use your balloon idea, here is a typical node. No power needed (power over lan). What kind of distance are you looking to cover? Here was an eye opener for me. If people (sheepole) aren't willing to listen now and take action in setting this up now, then they will have no idea what to do when SHTF. They will be trying to find food, not communication. So with that in mind you will have a better idea of coverage you are looking for. If Jim, Bob, and Joe are down with spending the $10 for a router and hour on flashing the firmware then you will know what channels and where your nodes need to be placed. I also have a plan of putting a router in a 7.62 LINKED ammo can, so they can be deployable units. plus they will be needed for my UAV
100 % agreed. They won't be able to use computers if there is no power. And what if electricity is on but the Internet access was disabled by the authorities and marshall law was declared? I'm not even sure HAM radios would be legal. Ham will still be legal if you look at everything from Katrina to the recent earthquake in VA that knocked out cell service, ham was relied on for message traffic. Now if we are talking Red Dawn style SHTF then no one really knows. It blows my mind how many "survivalist" have no comm plan or think that GMRS/CB radios will work. I have been quoted the "25 miles" range so many times. Over the internet it is hard to change peoples minds, get them into your shack and let them talk and turn some dials. Thats what hooked me and what I used to hook a few. /mindless rant Think of this... 4 x 50 cal ammo cans 8 x wifi routers 4 x ip cameras 4 x 12v batteries 4 x harbor freight $15 solar panels if you put 2 routers in each can. set one for a ch to use with your mesh network, and set the other for a non over laping ch to use as a wifi access point. You could then put these four boxes around your property from your computer you would be able to view each of the ip cameras as well as extend your network throughout your property. You could be able to check a wifi camera from anywhere on your property using a laptop or web browser on your phone. Then if your neighbors are "like minded" they could do the same and so on. /mindless crazy talk Very interesting, this is very similar to a trail system made called the 'buckeye' camera. It's a mesh wifi camera system with built in solar pannels. They're pretty great as far as function goes, but run $800 per node. From a quick estimate these seem to be do-able for $150-$200 a node. You may be able to do it for less, I have 2 routers converted to radio's, a wireless access point, a 12dbi vertical antenna, and a 24dbi parabolic dish. Total investment was around 75 bucks, so it is doable. I hit the thrift stores looking for nodes, and hit all my coworkers that if they find any laying around I will give them 10 bucks for them. I have about 3 more coming for free by working some trade deals for some old computer parts and monitors. Are you running the solar panel chargers still? HF's site says the trickle chargers are 1.5w and most of the routers I'm seeing are stating 6w-7w per hour of consumption. |
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Quoted: I take it you've never been in a SHTF situation? No electicity... that means you can't keep your laptop charged. Even if you can, the cell phone system is out or overloaded. While it's running. If it's running. And perhaps the servers are down, too.... I've been there, done that. So, you can surf the net... how are they going to pay you for your SHTF internet service? The local banks are all shut down, they can't access your account info. Your credit cards go tits up. OK, but suppose you can solve all of that, then what? So you have internet service. You're deep in Indian country, looking over your shoulder at all times, all of the local stores are out of everything, or they are locked up and guarded. Your problem is food, water, keeping your shelter, and keeping others from "redistributing your wealth". With all of that, I didn't have time for email. Just saying. That's why the Good Lord invented solar cells and gensets. I actually have a wireless hub with my fly-away kit, just to be able to provide an intranet ad hoc net for local email to my laptop from the other nearby laptops. With our MARS e-mail over HF capabilities, it's nice to be able to recieve a message over Airmail and forward it right to the recipient's laptop and vice versa. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I take it you've never been in a SHTF situation? No electicity... that means you can't keep your laptop charged. Even if you can, the cell phone system is out or overloaded. While it's running. If it's running. And perhaps the servers are down, too.... I've been there, done that. So, you can surf the net... how are they going to pay you for your SHTF internet service? The local banks are all shut down, they can't access your account info. Your credit cards go tits up. OK, but suppose you can solve all of that, then what? So you have internet service. You're deep in Indian country, looking over your shoulder at all times, all of the local stores are out of everything, or they are locked up and guarded. Your problem is food, water, keeping your shelter, and keeping others from "redistributing your wealth". With all of that, I didn't have time for email. Just saying. what a debbie downer. anyway, i thought you were banned? ar-jedi That's poo-butt Debie Downer to you....
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You can still use your balloon idea, here is a typical node. No power needed (power over lan). SNIP Are you running the solar panel chargers still? HF's site says the trickle chargers are 1.5w and most of the routers I'm seeing are stating 6w-7w per hour of consumption. Not yet, I have some 7ah batters in standby for future use, and could go larger. Primary goal for me is to cover about 5 miles from the QTH, with backup power, and the one in the mobile for connection to the QTH. If I need more range then I break out the parabolic dish. I still need to run more tests but it is doable. 1W amps are available cheap, and will give quite a boost for range coverage on a 12-15 dbi antenna. I am scared to use an amp on the dish, the ERP might be a little high if someone walks in front. I will get some picture tomorrow of the equipment I have gathered, and maybe a picture of the antenna I am building for the QTH. Granted there would be a limitation on power for a long haul, but a 5 watt solar panel should meet the needs of most of them, and an alternative is to have a charging station with a couple of backup batteries ready to go. |
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You can still use your balloon idea, here is a typical node. No power needed (power over lan). SNIP Are you running the solar panel chargers still? HF's site says the trickle chargers are 1.5w and most of the routers I'm seeing are stating 6w-7w per hour of consumption. Not yet, I have some 7ah batters in standby for future use, and could go larger. Primary goal for me is to cover about 5 miles from the QTH, with backup power, and the one in the mobile for connection to the QTH. If I need more range then I break out the parabolic dish. I still need to run more tests but it is doable. 1W amps are available cheap, and will give quite a boost for range coverage on a 12-15 dbi antenna. I am scared to use an amp on the dish, the ERP might be a little high if someone walks in front. I will get some picture tomorrow of the equipment I have gathered, and maybe a picture of the antenna I am building for the QTH. Granted there would be a limitation on power for a long haul, but a 5 watt solar panel should meet the needs of most of them, and an alternative is to have a charging station with a couple of backup batteries ready to go. ETA: The overall test indicate that the version 3 WRT-54G and newer (Includes the GL) consume about 250ma @12V so around 3 watts. All of mine are version 3 models, I will get some actual readings on mine tomorrow to confirm this or not. |
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You can still use your balloon idea, here is a typical node. No power needed (power over lan). SNIP Are you running the solar panel chargers still? HF's site says the trickle chargers are 1.5w and most of the routers I'm seeing are stating 6w-7w per hour of consumption. Not yet, I have some 7ah batters in standby for future use, and could go larger. Primary goal for me is to cover about 5 miles from the QTH, with backup power, and the one in the mobile for connection to the QTH. If I need more range then I break out the parabolic dish. I still need to run more tests but it is doable. 1W amps are available cheap, and will give quite a boost for range coverage on a 12-15 dbi antenna. I am scared to use an amp on the dish, the ERP might be a little high if someone walks in front. I will get some picture tomorrow of the equipment I have gathered, and maybe a picture of the antenna I am building for the QTH. Granted there would be a limitation on power for a long haul, but a 5 watt solar panel should meet the needs of most of them, and an alternative is to have a charging station with a couple of backup batteries ready to go. ETA: The overall test indicate that the version 3 WRT-54G and newer (Includes the GL) consume about 250ma @12V so around 3 watts. All of mine are version 3 models, I will get some actual readings on mine tomorrow to confirm this or not. That's good to know, most of the things I've been able to find about the WRT-54s said around 5w to 6w Are you talking about a 1w amp between the wifi node and the antenna, or modding the WRT-54 to have a higher output? I know the latter can be done easily enough. This is one of the cheapest 5w solar panels I've been able to find , for $35 - http://www.amazon.com/CDT-CDT-5w-watt-Solar-Panel/dp/B000NP349G |
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You can still use your balloon idea, here is a typical node. No power needed (power over lan). SNIP Are you running the solar panel chargers still? HF's site says the trickle chargers are 1.5w and most of the routers I'm seeing are stating 6w-7w per hour of consumption. Not yet, I have some 7ah batters in standby for future use, and could go larger. Primary goal for me is to cover about 5 miles from the QTH, with backup power, and the one in the mobile for connection to the QTH. If I need more range then I break out the parabolic dish. I still need to run more tests but it is doable. 1W amps are available cheap, and will give quite a boost for range coverage on a 12-15 dbi antenna. I am scared to use an amp on the dish, the ERP might be a little high if someone walks in front. I will get some picture tomorrow of the equipment I have gathered, and maybe a picture of the antenna I am building for the QTH. Granted there would be a limitation on power for a long haul, but a 5 watt solar panel should meet the needs of most of them, and an alternative is to have a charging station with a couple of backup batteries ready to go. ETA: The overall test indicate that the version 3 WRT-54G and newer (Includes the GL) consume about 250ma @12V so around 3 watts. All of mine are version 3 models, I will get some actual readings on mine tomorrow to confirm this or not. That's good to know, most of the things I've been able to find about the WRT-54s said around 5w to 6w Are you talking about a 1w amp between the wifi node and the antenna, or modding the WRT-54 to have a higher output? I know the latter can be done easily enough. This is one of the cheapest 5w solar panels I've been able to find , for $35 - http://www.amazon.com/CDT-CDT-5w-watt-Solar-Panel/dp/B000NP349G An amp between the radio and the antenna, the HSMM Mesh software allows you to change the output power on the lynksys, but the maximum output is 19db, or around .080 watts. It is still somewhat limiting , but I will find out more with some testing. |
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The last I heard the longest wifi connection is around 230 miles. I am thinking of two teams, one group of Americans and one local. Im little fuzzy on it but they were using something like a 15' dish on each sides and only a 300mW radio.
This Is this a true "roving wireless server" all that would need to be modified is the firmware that is on the router to use the HSMM stuff. Here is a group that does close to the same thing but with R/C planes and copters. These even have GPS abilities. Do you see the options now? Of course you could set a couple routers in between you and your neighbors so that you can share files, but you can also use that same network to control R/C things, monitor webcams, trigger switches ect ect. If you start looking into the Adruinos it opens the door wide open. Here are just a few things -wifi gate opener -wifi motion detectors -use wifi to turn your porch lights on/off from anywhere in the world (via internet) -voIP phones at any of the nodes. So these are all geared to the castle idea. However what about EmComm? Pelican type case (orange in this case) with an 2 routers, ip phone, wireless web cam, LAN weather system and of course a computer. each one of these cases could be taken with a first responder. when they get to the emergency area they open the lid plug the 12v cord into a lighter outlet and then set the webcam on the roof or carry it around with them. with the second router you can establish a second wifi network so that the responders can use their own cell phones with voIP apps, stream video. The computer could be used to update rosters or transfer files. ect ect Can you talk to Australia simplex? Nope, but you are able to grew your network to where you need it. And you give the end users (more then likely not hams) a simple interface they are use to. /Ramblings |
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The last I heard the longest wifi connection is around 230 miles. I am thinking of two teams, one group of Americans and one local. Im little fuzzy on it but they were using something like a 15' dish on each sides and only a 300mW radio. This Is this a true "roving wireless server" all that would need to be modified is the firmware that is on the router to use the HSMM stuff. Here is a group that does close to the same thing but with R/C planes and copters. These even have GPS abilities. Do you see the options now? Of course you could set a couple routers in between you and your neighbors so that you can share files, but you can also use that same network to control R/C things, monitor webcams, trigger switches ect ect. If you start looking into the Adruinos it opens the door wide open. Here are just a few things -wifi gate opener -wifi motion detectors -use wifi to turn your porch lights on/off from anywhere in the world (via internet) -voIP phones at any of the nodes. So these are all geared to the castle idea. However what about EmComm? Pelican type case (orange in this case) with an 2 routers, ip phone, wireless web cam, LAN weather system and of course a computer. each one of these cases could be taken with a first responder. when they get to the emergency area they open the lid plug the 12v cord into a lighter outlet and then set the webcam on the roof or carry it around with them. with the second router you can establish a second wifi network so that the responders can use their own cell phones with voIP apps, stream video. The computer could be used to update rosters or transfer files. ect ect Can you talk to Australia simplex? Nope, but you are able to grew your network to where you need it. And you give the end users (more then likely not hams) a simple interface they are use to. /Ramblings Good stuff, i'm aware of the drone website, however I haven't seen them look at a blimp for the setup. I'm getting more into the idea of using a mesh network instead of the blimp due to redundancy. The blimp idea is there for the potential of just having one node that reaches far and wide. |
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Do it!
I guess I have been going off on my tangents and not getting to the OP. I have an old issue of QST that shows how to set up a loop antenna using a balloon. it was either a 160 or 80 full loop. The biggest thing I took away was using a swivel between the antenna (or in this case the payload). The older wifi record was made this way, by using a balloon. What if you made a true skynet? 3 or 4 of these could cover a huge distance. Ideas would be some type of parachute so that the payload could be cut and float down :) Building the housing fully out of plexi glass, it would look cool I would think 550 cord would be strong enough. You could buy a cheap 3hp gas motor from HF and rig a pulley to the shaft. 2 loops around the pulley would make the winch. You would just need to manage the tail. This would make it much easier to get up and down as well as control altitude. With the swivel you would be able to attach some kind of wind vane to the housing so that if you mount one of those wifi cams it would be a stabler platform. |
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"1W amps are available cheap, and will give quite a boost for range coverage on a 12-15 dbi antenna. I am scared to use an amp on the dish, the ERP might be a little high if someone walks in front." There's probably little to be concerned about... That may be so, but with a 24dbi dish it creates a 2 degree beam width and about 150w erp, The calculations indicate that safe limits are 5mw per square centimeter, with a maximum exposure of 6 min. I am not going to stand in front of it for any period of time. But you are likely correct, the calculations are ran by the Europeans, and the FCC adopts them. I am sure they are being overly cautious. |
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"1W amps are available cheap, and will give quite a boost for range coverage on a 12-15 dbi antenna. I am scared to use an amp on the dish, the ERP might be a little high if someone walks in front." There's probably little to be concerned about... That may be so, but with a 24dbi dish it creates a 2 degree beam width and about 150w erp, The calculations indicate that safe limits are 5mw per square centimeter, with a maximum exposure of 6 min. I am not going to stand in front of it for any period of time. But you are likely correct, the calculations are ran by the Europeans, and the FCC adopts them. I am sure they are being overly cautious. Libtard cautious and with a sinister purpose. Oh well.... |
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"1W amps are available cheap, and will give quite a boost for range coverage on a 12-15 dbi antenna. I am scared to use an amp on the dish, the ERP might be a little high if someone walks in front." There's probably little to be concerned about... That may be so, but with a 24dbi dish it creates a 2 degree beam width and about 150w erp, The calculations indicate that safe limits are 5mw per square centimeter, with a maximum exposure of 6 min. I am not going to stand in front of it for any period of time. But you are likely correct, the calculations are ran by the Europeans, and the FCC adopts them. I am sure they are being overly cautious. Libtard cautious and with a sinister purpose. Oh well.... Well that was a pointless comment don't you think? Especially when I basically agreed with you assessment and stated that I would choose not to stand in front of it, Besides it would block my signal!
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I'm curious , would modding the firmware be better than buying a 1w amp or not? I know with the WRT54 series wifi systems, you can use firmware to increase output. Usually the firmware mod and increased output power is enough to cover the area. The firmware allows the power to be increased to 19db, or about 80mw. |