Posted: 1/18/2011 1:39:39 PM EDT
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I'm in the market for a mobile radio. Probably want a dual band. How important do you guys think cross band repeat really is? Legal issues and battery draining aside, seems like a neat thing to have but it adds quite a bit to the cost of a radio. I'd be interested in what mobile radios you guys might recommend also.
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There are lots of uses for crossband repeat. Most of them deal with an HT not being enough to reach a repeater so you crossband to make the trip. Whether it's because you're hunting or something away from your vehicle or if it's just a function of the terrain where you live.
Before I would make this a "must have" I would probably have to define the reason for doing it. If you "need" it for emergencies, you had better have practice in the situation you'll be using it. Otherwise you'll end up not being able to get things set up, or worse it may not meet your needs at the time. Edit: fixed stuff. |
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Threw the same question to our local ARES guru. His response that it's not a requirement (in an ARES context) but useful for extending the range of your HT and also doesn't tie you to the rig when deployed.
Personally I'll have it in the go-box but I don't see a need for it elsewhere. My choice is the Kenwood TM-V71A. |
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In my ~20 years of ham radio, most of which was spent doing RACES stuff, I've used it exactly once. We were shepherding a cross-country race through the mountains & foothills near Magic Mountain; there was one stretch in a long canyon where it was useful. I believe that! I have my 8800 and FT60 set up and tested to use in that capacity, but may never need to use it. It's still nice to have "Just in case". 
ETA: Mine is set up like this example: Crossband repeat with Yaesu FT-8800R |
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In my ~20 years of ham radio, most of which was spent doing RACES stuff, I've used it exactly once. We were shepherding a cross-country race through the mountains & foothills near Magic Mountain; there was one stretch in a long canyon where it was useful. I believe that! I have my 8800 and FT60 set up and tested to use in that capacity, but may never need to use it. It's still nice to have "Just in case". Hmmm, let me correct that: ONE TIME, I set it up to use at the W6TRW swap meet. It worked well but I couldn't get anyone else to get used to the necessity of IDing every time they used it. |
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Threw the same question to our local ARES guru. His response that it's not a requirement (in an ARES context) but useful for extending the range of your HT and also doesn't tie you to the rig when deployed.  Another local ARES guru here. 
We encourage our folks to have crossband capabilities if they plan on being deployed to one of the shelters. Why? We seldom have enough help to put two operators at a shelter. If you can crossband you can leave the station and walk around with your HT (maybe track down the shelter manager, grab a bite to eat, run out to your vehicle, etc). Sure you could sign off the net while you're doing these things but it's preferred that you're always near a radio in case the EOC or Red Cross needs to get in touch with you. I've also used it when working special events where I'm in the woods wading through a creek and can't hit the repeater very well. I find that it's a great feature and I've certainly used it more than once in real situations. |
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Legal issues and battery draining aside... Legal issues? In a true cross band repeat setup, the radio is constantly transmitting back to the HT, which is a no-no since the radio never identifies itself. The trick here is to tune the radio out of band so that it cannot retransmit what it receives from the far station/repeater. Kenwood provides a mode called "lock band repeater" where the radio only listens and rebroadcasts what it hears from your HT,and not what it hears from the repeater/far station back to your HT. ETA: I don't know how to link to a specific post within a thread, but if you scroll down to "crossband repeat with a dual-band mobile radio" in Ham Radio 101, you'll understand more better 
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I have an FT-8800 and I use it in the summer when I am fishing.
In the back country where it's not real safe to be without comms due to the terrain and distance from anything. So far I have no issues using it and it reaches a repeater a long distance away, with a beam antenna. But, low power, and I was careful, and there was no one around but me. I was using a battery and a solar panel. |
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Let me expand with my experiences with both lock band and crossband repeat using a Kenwood TM-D700a. (I still have it. It is currently in my jeep)
As was stated. On Crossband anything you tx goes from what you're holding (let's say an HT for clarity) through the crossbanding radio and out on another frequency. When something transmits on that other frequency the Crossband machine send it out of the freq your HT would be on. Sounds simple. I used this to hit a repeater years ago before my wife and I were married. At her house the mobile had no problems hitting the repeater but an HT could not. As a side note the HT could HEAR the repeater fine. When I set everything up for crossbanding I ran into an interesting problem: If people were quick keying the repeater it would always be transmitting and you couldn't get back into your radio to transmit!!! This deals with repeater hang time etc..... The solution is lock band repeat. On this nothing is ever transmitted on the HT frequency from the mobile radio. You have the HT listen to the repeater freq and you transmit on the lock band freq, which the mobile re-broadcasts to the repeater for you. I guess it should be noted I was using dual band/dual receive HTs to do this. So Crossbanding is only semi-legal and can end up with you not being able to transmit anyway. That was kind of the reason I said you should define your needs ahead of time to be sure it really is what you need! |
| For a few years when I first got licensed I had crossband repeat as a requirement especially with regard to the mobile rig in my truck. The fact is in the last 5 years I've used crossband repeat probably once. We have very little UHF traffic in my area so the next rig for my truck will be a standard 2M rig. |
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One of the real world situations my guru told me. The club for years has been supporting one of the MS Tour for Cure. Rode it myself a few years. At some of the sag stops an HT is a non-starter as 5w just isn't going to ping the repeater. So go with a mobile. Fine but sometime in that 6 hours you'll want to grab lunch, and hit the blue room. It's either check out of the net or crossband repeat when you leave the station. The way this situation plays itself out crossband repeat is a plus.
We encourage our folks to have crossband capabilities if they plan on being deployed to one of the shelters. Why? We seldom have enough help to put two operators at a shelter. If you can crossband you can leave the station and walk around with your HT (maybe track down the shelter manager, grab a bite to eat, run out to your vehicle, etc). Sure you could sign off the net while you're doing these things but it's preferred that you're always near a radio in case the EOC or Red Cross needs to get in touch with you. |
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In a true cross band repeat setup, the radio is constantly transmitting back to the HT, which is a no-no since the radio never identifies itself. The trick here is to tune the radio out of band so that it cannot retransmit what it receives from the far station/repeater. Kenwood provides a mode called "lock band repeater" where the radio only listens and rebroadcasts what it hears from your HT,and not what it hears from the repeater/far station back to your HT. ETA: I don't know how to link to a specific post within a thread, but if you scroll down to "crossband repeat with a dual-band mobile radio" in Ham Radio 101, you'll understand more better The Kenwood TM-D710 can ID on both sides of the crossband with you callsign in CW. |
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Here it is http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=10&f=22&t=618176 Just noticed the OP isnt a paying member   Ill do this for ya ,,, this time .  Its been quite a while since I posted to Arfcom, but something has happened to me that really impacted me and I think others might benefit from hearing about it. Before I start the story, I want to give a little history of how and why I got into ham radio. In 2006, I decided that there was a big problem with some of my preparedness plans. I had no plan for communications. In looking at things, I saw two very real situations that might require comms beyond the use of a cell phone. The first and most obvious would be another 9/11 style attack. Conventional communication methods were almost useless and that could only get worse in the future. The other situation was more personal. I hunt in an area with no cell coverage. I also like to hunt by myself and that had been bothering me for a while. I finally decided to do something about this. I found this forum on Arfcom and after reading a lot from AR Jedi and posting some questions, I decided to get licensed. I got my Technician’s ticket in February of 2007, my General in March and Extra in July of that year. My first two radios were purchased with more emphasis on the hunting scenario. I got a Yaesu VX6R hand talkie and a Kenwood TM V708A for the truck. I got the Kenwood because I wanted the ability to "crossband repeat” or CBR. Because my hunting area is fairly remote, my HT can’t always hit the local repeaters. For those who don’t know, CBR means you use your HT to communicate to your base station (in the truck in my case) and the base retransmits your signal on a pre-determined frequency. Signals coming back and again retransmitted by the truck to the HT. When properly set up, it’s a very clear and reliable way to hit active repeaters when you can’t do it with an HT. On Wednesday, November 5th, 2008, I drove to my hunting property and set my truck up for the CBR. I tuned to the Warrenton VA repeater, run by the Fauquier Amateur Radio Association. I had listened to this repeater enough to know that it was used frequently and monitored constantly. I arrived at my tree stand at 6:15 AM and started my climb up. One of the ladder steps fell out from under my boot. That steps were 16” long pieces of 2x4 pressure treated lumber that I had nailed to the tree with 16d nails. I still managed to make it up the tree without problem. My habit when hunting it to check the stand with my foot, climb into the stand and then attack my safety strap. For those reading this who think that is the wrong order, you’re right. When I stood on the stand with both feet, the stand broke away beneath me. I fell 20’ to the ground, landing on my back. Remember that 2x4 with the nails sticking out of it? Well, I found it. It happened to be lying with the nails up, right at my impact point. Four nails penetrated between my spine and shoulder blade. I was wearing only a t-shirt with my jacket tied around my waste so they went all the way in. The pain was excruciating. At first, I didn’t realize I had landed on nails and thought the sharp pain was due to breaks in my spine and ribs. With the wind knocked out of me and writhing in pain, my first instinct was to turn on my HT and call for help. "Mayday! Mayday! Mayday! This is K4GUN. I need emergency assistance!” Immediately, my call was answered. I had two guys at first then one took over. He called the local rescue squad and got them on the way. He asked questions about my injuries, location and state of mind. He kept calm. As I regained my senses, I figured out that the board was in my back. I also realized that I could still move my legs and arms. I sat up and drank some water and listened for the sirens. I directed them right to me through my friend on the radio. They were at my location within 30 minutes of my fall. The paramedics tried unsuccessfully to remove the board from my back. Yes, that hurt just a bit. They were absolutely amazed that I was able to call for help. They couldn’t believe I had the foresight to have the radio with me and actually use it. Aside from the obvious lesson about tree stand safety, there is a big lesson to be learned. Accidents will happen. Emergencies can’t be predicted. The thing you owe to yourself and your loved ones is to be prepared to deal with them. Having communications when all else fails is a big part of that. I’ll post pics when I have a chance. |
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Quoted: The "lock-band" or simplex crossband you guys are talking about is the best route. If you do full duplex where the mobile is working both ends of the QSO you'll probably run into heat/power issues as it's not designed for a duty cycle like that. Is this "lock-band" feature a kenwood thing, or do some icom/yaesu's support it too? If I'm reading this right, you need a dual receive HT also, right? Sorry my brain is in granny gear today... Thanks, -Slice |
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Ft857D does all this. Havent used it myself but since repeaters are pretty scattered here it may be useful some day. Cross band repeat? on an 857D? I'm pretty sure the 857D does not do CBR, as it is only a single receive. The 8800, 8900(I think), & 350r/ar have that function. If the 857D did, I would buy one ASAP. Keep in mind that I'm very much a newbie, so may be very wrong. Still waiting for my call sign from last week's exams. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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In my ~20 years of ham radio, most of which was spent doing RACES stuff, I've used it exactly once. We were shepherding a cross-country race through the mountains & foothills near Magic Mountain; there was one stretch in a long canyon where it was useful. I believe that! I have my 8800 and FT60 set up and tested to use in that capacity, but may never need to use it. It's still nice to have "Just in case".
ETA: Mine is set up like this example: Crossband repeat with Yaesu FT-8800R Wow, that link looks familiar. 
Anyway, I use crossband repeat quite a bit. I have an 8800 installed at my house that I'll routinely setup x-band repeat on so that I can use my HT around the property to hit my local repeater (no way that I can hit it with an HT, I can receive just fine w/a large antenna though). I also have the 8800 setup in my truck for x-band when I go hunting. Same deal as at home, I can hear the repeater with the HT but can't get out so x-band repeat works great. I have this setup for emergency use only and test it every year before deer season (radios are illegal to use while hunting in MN however, since my phone doesn't work in the ravine that hunt in, this is my only means of communication out in case I'm injured). Crossband repeat can be very useful in the right situation. The question to ask is, do you find yourself in situations where it would be useful to you? |
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Wow, that link looks familiar. Thanks again rebby! You came to the rescue when I was struggling understanding how this works last March in this thread Cross band repeaters. 
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Wow, that link looks familiar. Thanks again rebby! You came to the rescue when I was struggling understanding how this works last March in this thread Cross band repeaters.
Glad that I could help you out. Wish I could remember what I contributed that that thread. I let my membership expire though and really need to renew... Oh well. |
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Wow, that link looks familiar. Thanks again rebby! You came to the rescue when I was struggling understanding how this works last March in this thread Cross band repeaters.
Glad that I could help you out. Wish I could remember what I contributed that that thread. I let my membership expire though and really need to renew... Oh well. Here's the Cliff Notes Version: rebby [Member]3/2/2010 11:09:09 PM EST Here is how I do crossband repeat with my FT-8800R and VX-7R. BigDaddy0004 [Team Member]3/2/2010 11:24:49 PM EST Quoted: Here is how I do crossband repeat with my FT-8800R and VX-7R. Ah, that makes sense. I was on the right track, then the train ran me over. Thanks rebby. JaxShooter [Team Member]3/2/2010 11:45:40 PM EST I do the same thing rebby only I use DCS as I figure there's even less of a chance of somebody else using that around here. Otherwise we're spot on. Tx via xband and Rx straight with the HT. rebby [Member]3/3/2010 8:34:16 AM EST Quoted: I do the same thing rebby only I use DCS as I figure there's even less of a chance of somebody else using that around here. Otherwise we're spot on. Tx via xband and Rx straight with the HT. I thought that I tried DCS and that it didn't work for some reason. If you've got that working, I'll have to give it another go. I agree that the chances of overlap w/DCS are much lower than CTCSS. JaxShooter [Team Member]3/3/2010 9:48:15 AM EST I've been using DCS for years and never had a problem. |
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Wow, that link looks familiar. Thanks again rebby! You came to the rescue when I was struggling understanding how this works last March in this thread Cross band repeaters.
Glad that I could help you out. Wish I could remember what I contributed that that thread. I let my membership expire though and really need to renew... Oh well. Here's the Cliff Notes Version: rebby [Member]3/2/2010 11:09:09 PM EST Here is how I do crossband repeat with my FT-8800R and VX-7R. BigDaddy0004 [Team Member]3/2/2010 11:24:49 PM EST Quoted: Here is how I do crossband repeat with my FT-8800R and VX-7R. Ah, that makes sense. I was on the right track, then the train ran me over. Thanks rebby. JaxShooter [Team Member]3/2/2010 11:45:40 PM EST I do the same thing rebby only I use DCS as I figure there's even less of a chance of somebody else using that around here. Otherwise we're spot on. Tx via xband and Rx straight with the HT. rebby [Member]3/3/2010 8:34:16 AM EST Quoted: I do the same thing rebby only I use DCS as I figure there's even less of a chance of somebody else using that around here. Otherwise we're spot on. Tx via xband and Rx straight with the HT. I thought that I tried DCS and that it didn't work for some reason. If you've got that working, I'll have to give it another go. I agree that the chances of overlap w/DCS are much lower than CTCSS. JaxShooter [Team Member]3/3/2010 9:48:15 AM EST I've been using DCS for years and never had a problem. Thanks
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