Posted: 7/18/2010 10:57:57 AM EDT
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A friend of mine bought a AirNav box Link basically he can monitor what is flying over head...I guess military air craft have their gps position data scrubbed.
Anyways got me thinking in a survival situation say and you want someone to know "hey I'm down here" this could be a tool to monitor if something is overhead that you may not be able to see that easily. An example would be some sort of pandemic where you bugged in and maybe there are some fly overs in area that may be deemed "no survivors" "or very little survivors" I don't want this to turn into a topic of "OPSEC" or "I don't want to draw any attention to me" The crux of what I am getting at is, is there a nationally or internationally accepted radio frequency that pilots must monitor while in flight. Might be worth while to have a portable radio for the aviation band if there is such a thing? |
| I guess my only question would be are the radars going to be working in a SHTF type activity that you still be able to see aircraft flying over on this system? There are Aviation hand held radios that you can talk to air craft on the AIR bands not a pilot so I don't know anything about it. Still playing and learning HAM. LOL But very cool radar for seeing aircraft. |
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I think sometimes when we talk SHTF people tend to get the blinders on and assume nuclear waste land. My thought is I have no idea what the situation is going to be, lets pretend one of these still works. Is there an accepted freq that pilots must listen to according to wiki 121.5 is the channel for civi's I am just trying to spur a discussion on a ham radio related survival board. I agree there are odds (who knows how many) that one of these air navs could be completely useless. Although this would be something I wouldn't mind having in the shack it could be fun to play with, plus if it could possibly serve useful someday I wouldn't mind having it.
Hell lets just say the air nav unit is worthless I almost think having a radio on 121.5 could be useful. Also before the legal nazi chime in I'm not talking about using these to call in the kids at the campground I'm just thinking for something to monitor, and if things go down hill I might use one to call a plane I see overhead. |
| For back country work, or drawing attention from aircraft, the most certain places to come up are 406 MHz and 121.5. These are the frequencies used by ELT beacons on crashed airplanes. Or just carry a radio designed for the purpose: AK-451-PLB |
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Correct I wasn't talking EMP or any of those type of SHTF moments but in a large scale natural disaster or man made disaster (terrorism) where flights are grounded like on 9/11 or something like that again where FAA parks all flights and or blocks out airline info or anything. I was just giving you some of my thoughts. Like I said I am not a pilot or anything so I know nothing other than my HAM radios can listen to the AIR frequencies.
I do like your thoughts on this though and I will watch to see what others have to say. |
win a bet with a wanttobe pilot
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At one time, an aviation band handheld was the best back country radio to carry in the remote wilderness. You could contact bush pilots if they were in visual range for assistance. The SPOT gadget seems to be the item of choice now.
In a SHTF scenerio, calling rescue helos directly might save your life, but is no substitute for being prepared and alert. As far as I know, all aircraft are required to monitor the 121.5 distress frequency. It would help to know the closest airport's unicom frequency too. The 123.1(?) SAR frequency is probably only used once an air search is begun. RS |
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Correct I wasn't talking EMP or any of those type of SHTF moments but in a large scale natural disaster or man made disaster (terrorism) where flights are grounded like on 9/11 or something like that again where FAA parks all flights and or blocks out airline info or anything. I was just giving you some of my thoughts. Like I said I am not a pilot or anything so I know nothing other than my HAM radios can listen to the AIR frequencies. I do like your thoughts on this though and I will watch to see what others have to say. Ya sorry I wasn't trying to say your theory is all wet, I was hoping the thread wasn't going to get steered into the the "oh that will never work b/c its going to be a friggen waste land" Just got me thinking looking at this air nav system, he purchased it mearly for entertainment just to see what exactly was flying over head. I started to think hey a portable radio would be all you would need to contact an overhead plane. I know that these guard frequencies are for emergencies so obviously I"m not going to use it as way to start a rag chew session with a pilot. This would be to draw attention to myself in an emergency. |
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A friend of mine bought a AirNav box Link basically he can monitor what is flying over head...I guess military air craft have their gps position data scrubbed. Anyways got me thinking in a survival situation say and you want someone to know "hey I'm down here" this could be a tool to monitor if something is overhead that you may not be able to see that easily. An example would be some sort of pandemic where you bugged in and maybe there are some fly overs in area that may be deemed "no survivors" "or very little survivors" I don't want this to turn into a topic of "OPSEC" or "I don't want to draw any attention to me" The crux of what I am getting at is, is there a nationally or internationally accepted radio frequency that pilots must monitor while in flight. Might be worth while to have a portable radio for the aviation band if there is such a thing? 121.5 (which is often referred to as "guard" or in military terms "victor guard" for VHF) is supposed to be monitored but most GA (general aviation) aircraft don't have two radios on board so therefore aren't able to monitor it however higher end GA aircraft and anything carrying passengers for hire probably has multiple radios on board. Military crews are also required to monitor 243.0 "uniform guard" (as well as victor guard). We generally don't have a shortage of radios on board. ATC (air traffic control) does not receive aircraft location based on GPS, but rather a transponder (primary means) and ground based radar (secondary). Therefore, GPS data is not encoded or scrubbed, it is nonexistent/nonavailable to external agencies in this fashion. If a military aircraft is on an IFR (instrument flight rules––which all airline type flights are on) flight plan, which they usually are, it can probably be tracked online. The new ELT (aka Emergency Locator Transmitter which is also sometimes called a Crash Position Locator) freq on 406 I don't know much about, but it would only be for the transmitter, not for the pilot to talk on. Current use ELTs do transmit a tone on 121.5 (sounds like a siren) and miltiary ELTs transmit on 243. |
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A friend of mine bought a AirNav box Link basically he can monitor what is flying over head...I guess military air craft have their gps position data scrubbed. Anyways got me thinking in a survival situation say and you want someone to know "hey I'm down here" this could be a tool to monitor if something is overhead that you may not be able to see that easily. An example would be some sort of pandemic where you bugged in and maybe there are some fly overs in area that may be deemed "no survivors" "or very little survivors" I don't want this to turn into a topic of "OPSEC" or "I don't want to draw any attention to me" The crux of what I am getting at is, is there a nationally or internationally accepted radio frequency that pilots must monitor while in flight. Might be worth while to have a portable radio for the aviation band if there is such a thing? 121.5 (which is often referred to as "guard" or in military terms "victor guard" for VHF) is supposed to be monitored but most GA (general aviation) aircraft don't have two radios on board so therefore aren't able to monitor it however higher end GA aircraft and anything carrying passengers for hire probably has multiple radios on board. Military crews are also required to monitor 243.0 "uniform guard" (as well as victor guard). We generally don't have a shortage of radios on board. ATC (air traffic control) does not receive aircraft location based on GPS, but rather a transponder (primary means) and ground based radar (secondary). Therefore, GPS data is not encoded or scrubbed, it is nonexistent/nonavailable to external agencies in this fashion. If a military aircraft is on an IFR (instrument flight rules––which all airline type flights are on) flight plan, which they usually are, it can probably be tracked online. The new ELT (aka Emergency Locator Transmitter which is also sometimes called a Crash Position Locator) freq on 406 I don't know much about, but it would only be for the transmitter, not for the pilot to talk on. Current use ELTs do transmit a tone on 121.5 (sounds like a siren) and miltiary ELTs transmit on 243. Wow good info! Thanks! |
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In real life I play an airline pilot.
All 121 (big commercial) aircraft monitor on comm #2 either company freq or 121.5. The priority is to maintain contact with company flight followers, but that is normaly done thru ACARS. So that frees the radio up for 121.5. When you get down low ie: below 10,000 or so, normaly you turn of #2 so you can concentrate on ATC comms with #1. So a plane up high, you can probably get on 121.5, someone low or coming into land could go either way. Comm #1's priority is ATC first. Over the water where HF communication is primary with ATC comm #1 would be tune to "fingers", 123.45. It is the standard air to air freq. So if I had a ground to air radio and could pick only one freq it would be 121.5. If I got to pick two freqs I would play the odds and add 123.45. ELT's are switching over, but pilots will continue to monitor 121.5 for a number of reasons. |
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So what HT's are available on the Aviation band? Here's what is available from Sporty's, which is one of the largest/most well known vendors for "pilot gear" out there: http://sportys.com/PilotShop/category/829 |
I have an IC-A4, but I'd really like to get the airband version of the VX-7R, the VXA-710. |
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A friend of mine bought a AirNav box Link basically he can monitor what is flying over head...I guess military air craft have their gps position data scrubbed. Anyways got me thinking in a survival situation say and you want someone to know "hey I'm down here" this could be a tool to monitor if something is overhead that you may not be able to see that easily. An example would be some sort of pandemic where you bugged in and maybe there are some fly overs in area that may be deemed "no survivors" "or very little survivors" I don't want this to turn into a topic of "OPSEC" or "I don't want to draw any attention to me" The crux of what I am getting at is, is there a nationally or internationally accepted radio frequency that pilots must monitor while in flight. Might be worth while to have a portable radio for the aviation band if there is such a thing? The Airnav system works off of Acars signals. Basically only the airlines as they need to keep dispatchers updated with location and other info relevant to their ops. Its data only, no voice. Military does not use it, small general aviation planes do not use it, and the majority of corporate planes do not use it. Maybe fun to play with , but for survival....no way. I wouldn't even depend on the old 121.5 ELT's. Very few people monitor that freq on a regular basis. The new 406 ELT's have voice and data. The data is pre-programed with aircraft tail number and hex code and some have a data bus link to the GPS for last know position. Would not depend on either for ground ops (unless your a plane crash victim and then someone is looking for you). |
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Commercial a/c are not required to monitor 121.5. Some do, but it's not required. Wrong! Here is the text to the NOTAM with a link. ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0. NOTAM The "if capable" part has to do with the requirement to be in contact with company, which is normaly done via ACARS. If you need I am happy to lay out and post why a NOTAM is regulatory for 121 operations. |
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Commercial a/c are not required to monitor 121.5. Some do, but it's not required. Wrong! Here is the text to the NOTAM with a link. ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0. NOTAM The "if capable" part has to do with the requirement to be in contact with company, which is normaly done via ACARS. If you need I am happy to lay out and post why a NOTAM is regulatory for 121 operations. Ah thanks for posting that. I knew I read it somewhere once before  . And for those that are not aviation inclined, 121 operations refers to FAR part 121, which is pretty much the reg that covers airline (air carrier) operation.
Commercial flying, by definition refers only to getting paid to fly (compensation greater than the operating costs). So, a flight instructor, crop duster, aerial photographer, etc are all commercial pilots. It is possible that he was referring to these operations, but I highly doubt it. |
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Commercial a/c are not required to monitor 121.5. Some do, but it's not required. Wrong! Here is the text to the NOTAM with a link. ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0. NOTAM The "if capable" part has to do with the requirement to be in contact with company, which is normaly done via ACARS. If you need I am happy to lay out and post why a NOTAM is regulatory for 121 operations. Ah thanks for posting that. I knew I read it somewhere once before . And for those that are not aviation inclined, 121 operations refers to FAR part 121, which is pretty much the reg that covers airline (air carrier) operation.
Commercial flying, by definition refers only to getting paid to fly (compensation greater than the operating costs). So, a flight instructor, crop duster, aerial photographer, etc are all commercial pilots. It is possible that he was referring to these operations, but I highly doubt it. Isn't this applicable for Nuke Plant overflights, not an airspace wide NOTAM? We've two units nearby and that is the brief at Pilot Proficiency Sessions. 73 Steve K9ZW |
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I don't monitor 121.5. Most of the airlines I j/s on don't usually monitor either. NOTAM or not. Center can let us know if a F16 wants to talk to us. I would say the opposite, and I'm an off line commuter. In regard to the OP. Maybe you're screwed. I don't know. |
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A friend of mine bought a AirNav box Link basically he can monitor what is flying over head...I guess military air craft have their gps position data scrubbed. Anyways got me thinking in a survival situation say and you want someone to know "hey I'm down here" this could be a tool to monitor if something is overhead that you may not be able to see that easily. An example would be some sort of pandemic where you bugged in and maybe there are some fly overs in area that may be deemed "no survivors" "or very little survivors" I don't want this to turn into a topic of "OPSEC" or "I don't want to draw any attention to me" The crux of what I am getting at is, is there a nationally or internationally accepted radio frequency that pilots must monitor while in flight. Might be worth while to have a portable radio for the aviation band if there is such a thing? The Airnav system works off of Acars signals. Basically only the airlines as they need to keep dispatchers updated with location and other info relevant to their ops. Its data only, no voice. Military does not use it, small general aviation planes do not use it, and the majority of corporate planes do not use it. Maybe fun to play with , but for survival....no way. I wouldn't even depend on the old 121.5 ELT's. Very few people monitor that freq on a regular basis. The new 406 ELT's have voice and data. The data is pre-programed with aircraft tail number and hex code and some have a data bus link to the GPS for last know position. Would not depend on either for ground ops (unless your a plane crash victim and then someone is looking for you). So wait a sec I could of swore he sent me a log and it showed a few air craft that were military...maybe I read it wrong? Well purchasing one of these solely for prepps really wasn't the idea, just got me thinking about being able to contact over head air craft. It sounds like we've spurred a good discussion on the topic with some differing facts. |
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actually airnav is a ADS-B (not ACARS) receiver. this is part of the FAA's nextgen system.
some general aviation uses it in alaska, the gulf of mexico and other test areas. a few military aircraft do transmit ADS-B, mainly aircraft that transit thru europe. wikipedia ADS-B, good reading about the system. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
| I just found out the VHF radios in my aircraft have the ability to transmit above the aviation band, through the ham band, and up to the mid 150s. They are degraded in the 150s freqs, but they can transmit/receive there. Unfortunately I can't tune in 146.520, but I can dial in 146.525 or 146.500. Don't have the ability to put in PL codes either, so no repeaters. haha. |
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So what HT's are available on the Aviation band? there are tons, but iirc, there is only one HT that does ham and airband.... a friend has one, ill have to ask him what the model is, though they are no longer being made. an HT that transmits on both AM and FM?? wow.. i know most modern HT's and mobiles can RX on AM, but always thought it took completely different guts to TX on AM.. but I've been wrong before |