Posted: 4/25/2010 7:17:37 AM EDT
| This seems like it has some really good potential for hams like us. What I like about it, is the selective calling feature, just punch in the callsign of the person your looking for and the software will select the appropriate band and notify the person other end, of an incoming call. I guess the US Military uses this stuff. I guess you can even do some SMS messaging too. I know a lot of times when I am talking with a friend of mine in VT on HF us uses skype or a cellphone as a liaison channel to pick an HF freq, well if the internet and cell phones arent available ALE takes care of that. They even make radios with the ALE protocol built in! |
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ALE has little to no place in the Amateur Bands. It is appropriate to channelized bandwidth allocations (say perhaps MARS Frequencies).
My Full Article: A Solution Looking for a Problem to Solve – ALE in use in non-channelized Amateur Frequencies the ALE operator should be expected operate and act like any other Radio Amateur operating in open to all Amateur Bands, both from a courtesy point and from an FCC rules angle.
Repeated unattended automated transmissions in the blind should be treated as the QRM they are, and also treated as unattended beacon transmissions operating outside of the coordinated beacon frequencies & beacon power limits. ALE in open spectrum is a “Solution Looking for a Problem to Solve” that does not “play well with others” and should be treated as the intruder it is, until (and IF) the technology can be developed to respect other uses of the Amateur Bands. YMMV and your take may differ, but ALE transmitting blind without human frequency clearance of open spectrum first is a rules violation. 73 Steve K9ZW BLOG: With Varying Frequency - Amateur Radio Ponderings |
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I don't have all of the facts on ALE but it is my understading that your view is an opinion. There is nothing illegal about using ALE...? I thought ALE transmits on pre-designated frequencies? alteast I read it hereHFLink Channels It would seem to me that this is no different than packet radio or APRS or any other digital mode that would transmit with out your intervention. It seems to me that from reading the hflink website that have internationaly coordinated channels.
I think that ALE has just as much as a place as the rest of the digital modes on HF. Please don't take this as the opening salvo in a flame war, just trying to have an intelligent discussion. |
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Quoted:
I don't have all of the facts on ALE but it is my understading that your view is an opinion. There is nothing illegal about using ALE...? I thought ALE transmits on pre-designated frequencies? alteast I read it hereHFLink Channels It would seem to me that this is no different than packet radio or APRS or any other digital mode that would transmit with out your intervention. It seems to me that from reading the hflink website that have internationaly coordinated channels. I think that ALE has just as much as a place as the rest of the digital modes on HF. Please don't take this as the opening salvo in a flame war, just trying to have an intelligent discussion. From the link you posted: ALE channels are frequency coordinated internationally, and subject to the different rules, regulations, and bandplans of the region and local country of operation. emphasis mine. |
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Quoted:
I don't have all of the facts on ALE but it is my understading that your view is an opinion. There is nothing illegal about using ALE...? I thought ALE transmits on pre-designated frequencies? alteast I read it hereHFLink Channels It would seem to me that this is no different than packet radio or APRS or any other digital mode that would transmit with out your intervention. It seems to me that from reading the hflink website that have internationaly coordinated channels. I think that ALE has just as much as a place as the rest of the digital modes on HF. Please don't take this as the opening salvo in a flame war, just trying to have an intelligent discussion. ALE operates like a high power beacon blindly broadcasting on self-selected frequencies whether or not they are already be in use for other Amateur use. There is no Listen and then genteel frequency clearing "Is this frequency in use?" but rather a blind transmission. This is in conflict with FCC Part 97 in: 97.101a, 97.101b, 97.101c, 97.101d ALE lays claim to "Channels" ( see http://hflink.com/channels/) that lay outside of the only FCC HF allocations for 97.221 Automatically controlled digital station provisions They provide a nice chart acknowledging the limited play areas for Automatically Controlled Digital Stations: 
If you monitor te reported ALE activity some operation is reported outside of the 97.221 Frequencies, and the follow on use of these Digital Mode set-aside frequencies for SSB once the ALE link is established hasn't been explained. If you look closely at this 97.221 Automatically controlled digital station provision ALE claims as operating authority, ALE skirts compliance to 97.221 C 1 which states The station is responding to interrogation by a station under local or remote control - in other words the station making the call starting a QSO with an Automatically Controlled Digital Station cannot be another "robot" but needs to be a directed human intervention broadcast.
ALE type protocols are awesome in channelized spectrum - again the usual suggestion is MARS type operations - It may be "legal" in digital only mode if the initiating station is under direct human command locally or by remote - but just because "we can" doesn't mean "we should," specially in the incorrect use of ALE outside of the Auto Frequency areas (which are NOT set asides for Auto-Only BTW), it's varying levels of missing ongoing QSO traffic before transmitting and questionably practices of mode out of allocation potential. ALE ignores the requirement that the "wake up" call needs to be a human calling - that both stations cannot be Automatically Controlled Digital Stations under 97.221 YMMV, but ALE cuts to the edge of the rules and perhaps more than a bit further. If you love Pactor Robots blasting your digital QSOs, hey then ALE is not much different. 73 Steve K9ZW BLOG: With Varying Frequency - Amateur Radio Ponderings |
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ALE is one of the few things that actually make HF radio more science than art. Several things prevent it's successful use for hams:
1. The software available for hams, PC-ALE or MuitiPSK, are both arguably difficult to use. 2. Nobody else is developing software. 3. The MIL protocols and modulations used are hopelessly dated and inefficient. 4. Nobody else is developing new protocols. 5. The ham community has refused as a whole to embrace it and therefore you get the kinds of arguments you get in this thread. 6. It requires a level of antenna and/or tuner complexity that most folks are not willing to employ. All of the above means few hams use it. That means that unless you are in a geographically favorable position relative the one or more of the few that participate you will never make an ALE contact. I know because I've tried. |
| I find its the same thing with just about every mode, the AM and SSB guys are at each others throat and the contesters and paper chasers want everyone to shut up for they can get that elusive contact. Everytime you get a new digital mode people want nothing to do with it. Our service is meant for all of the things I mentioned and experementation according to the fcc FCC It seems to me that there is enough band width for my operating taste, so I don't seem to have the complaints that some people have. |
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I find its the same thing with just about every mode, the AM and SSB guys are at each others throat and the contesters and paper chasers want everyone to shut up for they can get that elusive contact. Everytime you get a new digital mode people want nothing to do with it. Our service is meant for all of the things I mentioned and experementation according to the fcc FCC It seems to me that there is enough band width for my operating taste, so I don't seem to have the complaints that some people have. You are very right about the intention for experimentation and expansion of the state of the art in the amateur radio bands. This is why there are bandplans for styles of use. ALE plonks itself down in an automatic station frequency area, skirts the human start-up call (or listening first) and then doesn't leave. It is sort of like having someone with an big RV decide to take all the parking on your side of the street for years at a time while they live in the RV..... they have really taken residence rather than stopping for a visit. ALE is like that - at one point one of their main proponents wrote me that they had frequency rights because they ran a 24/7/365 net on "their frequencies" and anyone else would be QRMing them. Just like that big old RV blocking your street...... Again YMMV and your viewpoint may differ. Curious how many on this list have made an ALE contact on Amateur Bands? 73 Steve K9ZW BLOG: With Varying Frequency - Amateur Radio Ponderings |
| I've never used it, on paper it sounds good, as you can tell, I have interest in digital operations. My radio interest in ham radio are just having fun talking with friends and having some comms when things go bad. I will try ALE someday, and by sounds of this thread there is not much interest in it. |