Posted: 1/15/2009 8:07:08 PM EDT
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I have been contemplating on getting a multi band radio for a while. I have no clue why I guess. I only hold a Tech license as of yet.
I was thinking of getting a multiband so if/when I upgrade, I am set as far as the radio goes. My question is, what do you guys (gals?) reccomend. Price is some what of an issue. Thanks in advance for the input. |
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I'm a new ham and had looked at the Icom IC-718, as an entry level HF radio, and it is quite popular.
But then I was offered a very nice deal on a Yaesu FT-897. This was the older version, not the newer D. But it covers from 160m-6m at 100 w, 2m at 50 w, and 70 cm at 20 w. This radio has a cavity in the bottom in which to put optional gel cell batteries. Running off the batteries it is limited to 20 w. But mine came to me with the Yaesu FP-30 power supply in place of those batteries. So there is no separate 110 vac supply, it is all contained in the radio. In addition, LDG makes a very good automatic tuner specifically for this radio that bolts on the side. I know, Yaesu makes a tuner like that, but the consensus is that the LDG unit is better, will tune a wider range of mismatched loads. 
The LDG tuner is the thing on the left side of the xcvr. The LDG FT Meter on top is a nice addition. It came with the radio (used) as part of the deal, but I would have bought it anyway. MUCH better than the LCD display's bar graph. The things on the left, an antenna switch I don't need yet, but came with it. The speaker is a nice addition. I had that already, a Radio Shack Realistic Minimus 77. This is the larger of their mini speakers with a metal case, black wrinkle finish that matches most radio gear, and a large 5" woofer. It makes for a good external speaker. Not seen is the power supply in the bottom of the radio. You didn't even notice it, did you? Of course not. This all makes for a nice "grab and go" desktop or portable. I used mine in the park for a small field day this past weekend. 
The Yaesu FT-857 is identical electronically, but is a smaller unit. You would need a separate power supply and tuner so it not really a smaller total package. Still it is the same specs. At first I was a little overwhelmed by the 91 menus, but the more I looked, most are set once and forget, or things you won't really need on a daily basis. There are perhaps three or four menus you should memorize, such as how to adjust power output, but that will come quickly. Still, I was on the air soon after having my call sign listed in the ULS. Other guys can tell you about their radios. |
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I have been contemplating on getting a multi band radio for a while. I have no clue why I guess. I only hold a Tech license as of yet. I was thinking of getting a multiband so if/when I upgrade, I am set as far as the radio goes. My question is, what do you guys (gals?) reccomend. Price is some what of an issue. Thanks in advance for the input. You say "only" as a negative thing.  I've "only" had a tech for a couple of years now. Have no real intrest in HF. The main reason is simply because of the cost of the radio's for HF, More feedline, More antennas...etc etc etc as you have said also. Sticker shock is something else on HF units. Kind of like the Dstar radio's.. YIKES!
I can connect with echolink or IRLP and talk to someone 4000 miles away if I want to. I can't feed my gun habbit if I get into HF. And my motorcycle habbit...and the wife....and... :) As we speak I'm looking at an M1 Garand from CMP as it is. Would that make for a good HF radio piggybank fund, yes, but I cant shoot a radio! I may upgrade to General some-day, but I'll worry about buying an HF radio afterwards. IMO, buy another gun. 
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r-2, Valid points there. Before my current situation I was able to use Echolink and IRLP. Now I cannot seem to connect to Echolink and the local IRLP repeater doesnt seem to be working or I just cant hit it. I am not far away from it but who knows. I live in a different town than I did when I had those options. I have a few of them "guns" nothing real fancy though. I would like to feed my gun habit but I am anxious to make some far away contacts. If you see me on Echolink, ring me up, I may have gotten it to work. KD0DOE, Omaha Freeman, Thanks for the informative post. I was looking at the 597D I think it was. When you say need a tuner, what are you talking about. Sorry, here is where my ham ignorance comes in. I have so much to learn so that is holding me back on purchasing any other radios but I thought I would try and get some opinions. Anyone else have any thoughts. THANKS!!!!!! |
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When you say need a tuner, what are you talking about. in VHF(2m) and UHF(70cm) land, the length of the antenna is "reasonably" close over the entire frequency of operation, and thus no type of matching gymnastics are needed. the antenna system consists simply of feedline and the antenna proper. if however, the amateur radio allocation in the VHF band was 30MHz wide, we would have a problem. one antenna length would not be a good match from say (hypothetically) 140MHz to 170MHz. accordingly, this would necessitate a different approach to the antenna system. this is the exact problem in HF land –– the antenna system must work over a very broad range. enter the antenna tuner, which in conjunction with the antenna is used to present a "reasonable" antenna system impedance to the transmitter. the antenna system, in this case, consists of a tuner, feedline, and the antenna proper. some HF antennas are designed to work on a single band, say 20m, without the need for a tuner. some other HF antenna designs are designed to work on several harmonically related bands, say 30m and 10m, without the need for a tuner. however, the more bands the antenna supports the trickier it will be to get by without a tuner. physics and physical dimensions start to get in your way. multiband HF antenna designs –– like the G5RV, Windom, and OCF dipole –– will in 99.9% of cases require being driven through a tuner. see the third paragraph, and subsequent pictures, here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=22&t=614541 ar-jedi |
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In the park photo above, each time I would change bands would require that I take down the antenna, change the loading coils, and adjust the whip lengths for best, or usable SWR. That antenna has been up and down many times to obtain close settings for 40, 20, 17, and 15 meters. I have calculated, but not actually tried 12, 10, and 6 meters, so I have a starting point on settings. I'm sure if I adjusted whip length to those calculated settings it would be close enough that the tuner would tune to 1.1:1 SWR easily.
At home I'm presently using a 3 band dipole, with legs cut for 75 meters, 40 meters, and 20 meters. It presents less than 1.5:1 SWR on most of those three bands, but the tuner helps on the band edges. 80/75 meters is the most difficult, as it has the widest bandwidth (as a percentage of frequency). The antenna presents 2:1 SWR on 6 and 10 meters, which is not really that bad, and these tune down quite easily to 1.1:1 with the tuner. 17 and 15 meters are in the 3:1 to 3.5:1 range. They also tune down to 1.1:1 quite easily and I have made good contacts on those bands using the tuner. 12 meters is 5:1 SWR, but will tune down to 1.1:1. I haven't made any QSO's on that band yet, and just don't hear anyone there. Nor did I hear anyone on 12 and 10 when I was just a SWL'er. This is related to the lack of sunspots. Perhaps in a few years it will be better. So, I am able to use this antenna from 75 to 6 meters. I have another coax run to the top of the mast where I have a 2m/70cm J-pole. So altogether I have coverage from 75 meters to 70 cm. And the tuner is a big help. |
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Are tuners radio specific or can you use any tuner with any radio? this is an excellent question. the answer is "it depends". "in the beginning" (i always wanted to start a post out like that!) tuners were manually operated affairs which consisted of a couple of dials and a big SWR meter. the radio operator dialed in the desired frequency, selected AM or CW on the radio, keyed the mike or depressed the code key, and then manipulated the dials on the tuner until the SWR meter showed a reasonable value. the radio operator then released the mike/key, selected whatever mode was desired (e.g. USB/LSB), and began operating normally. the "auto-tuner" simplifies this process by removing all of the manual work done by the radio operator. most all modern rigs have a "tuner port" which allows the tuner and the radio to send specific information back and forth via a cable. primarily, the tuner from its end can initiate a few seconds of CW carrier at a low power level, say 10W. hence, with the simplest of configurations, pressing the "tune" button on a modern auto-tuner kicks off a tuning sequence. the radio keys up, a microprocessor and sensing circuit internal to the tuner go to work on finding the right combination of inductance and capacitance required to match the antenna at the transmitter's current frequency, and finally the radio is unkeyed. all of this happens automatically. hence, the "auto-tuner". some radios even have built in auto-tuners. to finally answer your question: a manual tuner is compatible with all radios. some automatic tuners are radio- (or perhaps brand-) specific. some automatic tuners are generic but require a specific cable to interface with specific radios. if your radio does not have a tuner interface port, you must use a manual tuner or treat the auto-tuner as a manual tuner. by the latter i mean that you (the operator) will have to configure the radio to output a carrier signal at about 10W. when you are done tuning, you must reconfigure the radio to the mode that you want to operate in. that said, most every modern HF rig i can think of has a tuner interface port, and companies like LDG and similar make suitable auto-tuners to pair with these radios. see also http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=22&t=604477&page=2#10324580 ar-jedi |
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Is there any reason not to get the IC-7000? how are you going to use the radio –– mobile, fixed station, or ??? stated another way –– SHTF/TEOTWAKI aside, how will 95% of your operating be done? n.b. there is no doubt that the audio DSP systems in the other three radios listed pale in comparison to the IF DSP system employed in the IC-7000 and similar latest generation radios. so in pure technical terms, it is probably the best of the bunch (and is priced accordingly, of course). however, if you are going to use the radio for fixed station (base) operations i would suggest that you get a rig with a larger footprint. small, mobile-oriented radios are great for portable and (ahem) mobile use; however –– many, many settings are buried deep in hierarchical menus and this not only creates an initial learning curve but slows things down when operating. that said, a basic HF fixed station radio like an Icom IC-718 is relatively inexpensive, has a better receiver than any radio produced before, say 2002, and you can probably sell it one year on for about $75 less than you bought it for. no, it is not HF/VHF/UHF –– for that you have to go to the IC-746 and similar do-all, shack-in-a-box radios. but for an entry point into the world of HF, i don't think you could screw up with an IC-718 or a FT450(AT) for that matter. this approach decreases your initial outlay and will probably increase enjoyment as radio operation is simplified when all of the controls are up front. ar-jedi |
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Yep... sounds like I need to back up a step...
Was thinking of the IC-7000 as the first HF radio that I cound move between the fixed and mobile setup... So... based on your comment, might be better to start with an IC-718... spend some time learning the ins and outs and then put an IC-7000 in the car... err/mobile kit... I just hate the old saying "You dont' know what you don't know until you know it..." Thanks for the input... |
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and then put an IC-7000 in the car... err/mobile kit... ok... a couple of thoughts: HF mobile is an endeavor all to itself. it is *not* easy to setup for nor operate HF mobile. think carefully how you want to approach this before starting in. i would do a heck of a lot of reading on Eham.net and QRZ.com before buying anything. i would *not* recommend that you try HF mobile as your first HF experience –– that could end with a lot of frustration. HF portable is straightforward, you just need to worry about sufficient power and a field expedient antenna. HF portable is, once you find an antenna that suits your operating needs, an excellent start to HF –– one of the biggest benefits to HF portable is that you get away from the typical RF noise sources found in your and your neighbor's homes. setting up at a campground, or near a lighthouse, or on a mountainside scenic overlook will be a great experience. ar-jedi |
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ps: go here: http://swap.qth.com/advsearch.php type "718" into the "with all of the words" box. select "Radios - HF" in the category menu. click "Search Now!". ar-jedi |
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Thanks for the input... and then i would suggest finding an LDG AT-7000. http://www.ldgelectronics.com/products.php?cID=1&pID=5&v=1 this auto tuner is inexpensive, capable, and can be used with a wide variety of radios (incl both the IC-718 and IC-7000) so it is inherently future-proof. see also http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/5922 and http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=22&t=614541 ar-jedi ps: Free Dipole Antenna Kit!
Purchase any LDG autotuner priced over $149 (suggested list price) between September 15, 2008 and January 31, 2009 and receive a free Dipole Kit buildable for 20, 17, 15, 12, 10, or 6 meters. Download the Dipole Kit Rebate Form and mail it with a copy of your sales receipt to LDG. Be sure to check out the manual for the Free Dipole Kit in the Support/Manuals section of our website http://www.ldgelectronics.com/manuals/FreeDipoleManual.pdf |
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Again, thanks for the information!!
I was looking at many of the HF radios last night on various websites. Some of the mobile radios were catching my eye just for the fact that they were mobile and when the time came, I could go mobile. So much info, so little brain space. :) I do have a bunch of hams where I used to live to also help me out if/when needed. Mr Jedi sir, you are a wealth of information. THANK YOU!! |
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Am going to take my tech and general tests in couple weeks and the extra shortly afterwards. Anyway, I am thinking about a couple of items as my first HF station.
Yaesu FT-450AT Daiwa SS330w PS Jetstream Fan Dipole Kit JTFAN8010BK - in 10m, 20m, 40m(15m), and 80m bands. Is there anything I'm missing or any suggestions? |
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Am going to take my tech and general tests in couple weeks and the extra shortly afterwards. Anyway, I am thinking about a couple of items as my first HF station. Yaesu FT-450AT Daiwa SS330w PS Jetstream Fan Dipole Kit JTFAN8010BK - in 10m, 20m, 40m(15m), and 80m bands. Is there anything I'm missing or any suggestions? It should tune up on 17 meters, too, with that antenna. Good luck on the tests. You can't transmit yet, but do plenty of listening. Tell us how the radio works for you. |
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Yaesu FT-857D or FT-897D. Icom IC-706G or IC-7000. Pick your price point. Ignoring price point for a min.... Is there any reason not to get the IC-7000? I haven't purchased one yet.. so seriously... I don't own a 7000 but I get to use two for a couple of days about 5 times a year. They run hot if you work them hard. I am sure its not hot enough to hurt the radio but they do get warm to the touch. I like them alot. They are very nice but run right at twice as much as a FT-857D. Just not sure that I wouldn't rather have two 857s for about the same price. |
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My first HF radio was the IC7000. I started by using it in the house and eventually moved it to the truck. The comments made are dead on. The thing is small and the menus are difficult to use. As a base station, there are better choices.
Now... on the other side of that is that the 7000 has some of the best filtering and DSP available. Once you learn this radio, you'll find others almost too easy. The only real down side is the band scope. Unless you're contesting, that isn't a big deal anyway. Beyond that, I can't say enough good about the radio. |