User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 10:29:30 AM EDT
Guy in my hunting party shot this with a 16" barrel AR. Was using factory Hornady FMJBT 55 grn marked .223. Shot taken from an elevated stand (15') at range of about 40 yards.
Pic shows entrance wound. There was no exit wound. I did not gut the deer or go all Quincy on the entrails....but I am surprised by the failure to exit. Was somewhat lucky we recovered the deer at all; shot occurred the evening before and after finding no blood that night we took up search again the next morning. We found a single spot of blood, then did a wide area search and found the deer. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:09:29 AM EDT
[#1]
ETA: the failure was in sight picture/sight alignment.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:15:38 AM EDT
[#2]
FMJ. Poor shot placement.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:16:37 AM EDT
[#3]
So it was gut shot and he used a fmj? Should have used a soft point and hit it in the neck.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:17:47 AM EDT
[#4]
1. Looks like gut shot. Poor shot placement.
2. FMJ ammo. Not good for most hunting. Actually prohibited by many places. I'm a little surprised that the deer was found. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:24:25 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FMJ. Poor shot placement. These. There is a reason that hunting ammo is almost exclusively soft point(with the exception of some specialty rounds). I'd consider using plinking ammo to hunt deer to be unethical. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:25:00 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FMJ. Poor shot placement. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:28:17 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it was gut shot and he used a fmj? Should have used a soft point and hit it in the neck. Agree ammo selection was poor, shot coulda been better, but how did round not exit? I gave the guy shit the whole night because I expected an exit wound and lacking that I was convinced he missed it completely. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:29:32 AM EDT
[#8]
I think everyone about covered it. Also surprised you found it at all. What in the world was he doing hunting with that combo? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:29:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Been beat to death but you used the wrong kind of ammo and you didn't aim at the right part of the deer's anatomy.
The green blobs on the "X-ray" are where you shoudl aim more pics of anatomy was the shot a full on broadside or was it a slightly off broadside angle? Uphill shot? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:32:23 AM EDT
[#10]
Shot a smallish buck this morning with 62 gr Federal Fusions in .223 from a 20" bbl. Maybe 60-70 yards broadside and it passed through wrecking both lungs. He staggered a few yards and fell over dead.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:32:46 AM EDT
[#11]
Bad Ammo choice + bad gut shot.
Get some ammo with the Barnes Vor-tx also called TSX lead free. Its a solid copper alloy hollow point that mushrooms into rose petal shape but the bullet does not fragment usually. Makes deep penetration due to weight retention. Remington Hog Hammer also uses this bullet. Also Winchester Power Core is similar ( not power point). Our .223/5.56 projectile is so small we have to use projectiles that retain weight and reliably mushroom. He needs to shoot for the shoulder blade area. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:48:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Been beat to death but you used the wrong kind of ammo and you didn't aim at the right part of the deer's anatomy. The green blobs on the "X-ray" are where you shoudl aim more pics of anatomy was the shot a full on broadside or was it a slightly off broadside angle? Uphill shot? Thanks for response, but your reading comprehension could use work. ETA: slightly broadside angle questions I have no info on. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:52:10 AM EDT
[#13]
Bad shot. I've let a lot of game walk on by because I couldn't make a perfect shot. I won't take a shot unless I know I can kill it cleanly. Gut shot
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:55:10 AM EDT
[#14]
It was a piss poor shot to begin with and a piss poor bullet choice, don't hunt animals with FMJ's and when was the last time he actually practiced from a tree stand?
You are just lucky you found that deer, and hopefully it is tasty, but tell him to read up on the reason we use soft point bullets when hunting deer! 
You have to practice when you are going to be shooting from an elevated position, shoot from the roof of my single story house all of the time with my guns and my archery equipment, if you don't know trajectories and what they do from different elevations, you are being a sloppy hunter, the bullet didn't exit because it tumbled when it hit the animal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 2:23:13 AM EDT
[#15]
I worked with a guy who told me he only takes neck shots.
I was initially critical telling him a neck shot wasn't a humane kill. He told me a heart/lung shot will still allow a deer to bolt several yards. He explained that he hunted his fathers property which had such heavy undergrowth that a deer would disappear into the brush and never be found. Rather than lose a deer he opted for the neck shot. A deer wont run with a broken neck. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 2:55:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I worked with a guy who told me he only takes neck shots. I was initially critical telling him a neck shot wasn't a humane kill. He told me a heart/lung shot will still allow a deer to bolt several yards. He explained that he hunted his fathers property which had such heavy undergrowth that a deer would disappear into the brush and never be found. Rather than lose a deer he opted for the neck shot. A deer wont run with a broken neck. Nope they won't, I have never had one run at all, but it is not the easiest target to actually hit when things are moving fast. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 5:01:01 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I worked with a guy who told me he only takes neck shots. I was initially critical telling him a neck shot wasn't a humane kill. He told me a heart/lung shot will still allow a deer to bolt several yards. He explained that he hunted his fathers property which had such heavy undergrowth that a deer would disappear into the brush and never be found. Rather than lose a deer he opted for the neck shot. A deer wont run with a broken neck. Im not a hunter so I have zero experience. But a good friend of mine now 70 years old went hunting all his life around the world mostly Africa and eastern Europe.. He once told me how a deer ran for a couple of hundreds meters after being shot in the heart... Perfect shot but He explained that deer brain just turn the running mode on when scared allowing it to escape even without its heart 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 5:50:59 AM EDT
[#18]
Looks to me like it performed exceptionally well. Poorly chosen ammo and an utterly terrible shot placement, yet you still recovered the deer.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 6:12:15 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agree ammo selection was poor, shot coulda been better, but how did round not exit? I gave the guy shit the whole night because I expected an exit wound and lacking that I was convinced he missed it completely. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So it was gut shot and he used a fmj? Should have used a soft point and hit it in the neck. Agree ammo selection was poor, shot coulda been better, but how did round not exit? I gave the guy shit the whole night because I expected an exit wound and lacking that I was convinced he missed it completely. It's not uncommon for 223 rounds to not exit a deer. I've had several Winchester 64 gr power points come to rest under the skin on the far side. It bothered me enough I stepped up calibers to 6.8. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 6:48:06 AM EDT
[#20]
At close range a 223 Remington 55 grain FMJ with cannelure will yaw and fragment at the cannelure. The bullets are used by military where all but FMJ has been forbidden for decades. A soft pointed hunting bullet will mushroom creating a larger frontal area and under many circumstances will retain enough mass to pass completely through the target leaving a large exit hole. The large exit hole is desireable in a hunting projectile as it aids in recovery of the animal because of the blood trail.
I wouldn't be surprised if this shot damaged the liver and the massive internal bleeding caused the deer to expire. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 7:52:26 AM EDT
[#21]
If you would have shot a deer with a 223 FMJ in the UK and was found out, you would have had your licence revoked, min caliber for small deer in the UK is .243 100gr with an expanding bullet, that was in inhumane shot with a very poor bullet choice and placement.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 7:58:49 AM EDT
[#22]
Your friend needs to learn how to hunt deer and where the optimal shot placement (zone) is for taking a deer...if he can't put a round into the "zone" from 40 yards, he needs to take up another hobby.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 8:27:50 AM EDT
[#23]
A double lung shot on a deer with a .30-06 will still allow the deer to run about 60 yards every time in my experience. This is with liquefied lungs mind you. Unless you shut off the central nervous system the deer will run as far as the oxygen left in his blood allows, that being about 60 yards but with something like a .30-06 you at least have a blood trail.
A .223 is way too small for deer hunting. A 55 grn .223 is almost always going to break apart inside an animal like a deer and not have enough mass to exit. That means no blood trail. You are lucky you found it. If all I had to deer hunt with a .223 I'd go with something like the 77 grn from Hornady or better yet spend $300 on a Ruger American Rifle in .308 and be done with it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 8:31:26 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ETA: the failure was in sight picture/sight alignment. And even worse bullet selection. FMJ for a hunting round, . Use the right tool for the job.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 8:36:25 AM EDT
[#25]
If you use FMJ it must be XM193. Plus better shot placement.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 8:47:08 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A double lung shot on a deer with a .30-06 will still allow the deer to run about 60 yards every time in my experience. This is with liquefied lungs mind you. Unless you shut off the central nervous system the deer will run as far as the oxygen left in his blood allows, that being about 60 yards but with something like a .30-06 you at least have a blood trail. A .223 is way too small for deer hunting. A 55 grn .223 is almost always going to break apart inside an animal like a deer and not have enough mass to exit. That means no blood trail. You are lucky you found it. If all I had to deer hunt with a .223 I'd go with something like the 77 grn from Hornady or better yet spend $300 on a Ruger American Rifle in .308 and be done with it. I remember my father-in-law (very good shot and sneaky in the woods) telling me that he shot a buck on the run one morning. He was fairly close as he scouted ahead of season and was sneaky enough to jump them up out of their beds right after daylight. He said the deer jumped when the 180 grain 30.06 core locked bullet hit it but still ran almost 100 yds. He said when he cut it's chest cavity open the heart fell out. The bullet had gone through the upper part of the heart and blown it loose from the blood vessels and connecting tissue - and it still went almost 100 yds. Dead and didn't know it yet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 9:15:38 AM EDT
[#27]
It was probably a quartering away shot.
The round probably took out the liver and ended up in the chest somewhere. Weak ass round is weak, regardless. You should scold your buddy (if you haven't already). |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 9:43:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you would have shot a deer with a 223 FMJ in the UK and was found out, you would have had your licence revoked, min caliber for small deer in the UK is .243 100gr with an expanding bullet, that was in inhumane shot with a very poor bullet choice and placement. min caliber "laws" are because of terrible shots. shot placement>>>>>bullet type |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 10:07:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Above posts are correct. Poor shot placement coupled with poor bullet selection. A gut shot with FMJ and I'm surprised you even found it honestly. I took two with 77 TMK just last week. One chest shot which turned both lungs to soup which ran 60m and piled up, and one neck shot that crumpled on impact. .223 works fine, but one must select both their bullets and shots like an adult.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 10:33:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bad shot. I've let a lot of game walk on by because I couldn't make a perfect shot. I won't take a shot unless I know I can kill it cleanly. Gut shot Yup. Poor ammo choice. Bad shot placement. Shitty hunting judgement. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 10:55:28 AM EDT
[#31]
That deer won't be worth eating
Why anyone would deer hunt with a 223 is beyond me, but if you insist then use something besides a 55gr fmj unless you have a really slow twist like a 1:12 or 1:14 barrel
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 11:08:47 AM EDT
[#32]
Wrong, prevents this kind of inhumane animal dispach
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 11:56:33 AM EDT
[#33]
As I just posted in another thread...states ban 22 cal because people try to use fmj ball ammo on large game...
Thanks for proving my point. Spend the extra $20 on decent hunting ammo. Zero your rifle with 5 rounds and then you have 15 more for the rest of the season... |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 12:29:37 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A .223 is way too small for deer hunting. A 55 grn .223 is almost always going to break apart inside an animal like a deer and not have enough mass to exit. That means no blood trail. You are lucky you found it. If all I had to deer hunt with a .223 I'd go with something like the 77 grn from Hornady or better yet spend $300 on a Ruger American Rifle in .308 and be done with it. Exactly. Step up to at least a .243; .308 being better. Have shot five deer in the last two years with my Browning .308 with Sierra 165 grain soft points and they never moved more than 30 feet. Most dropped right on the spot. This reported kill using a FMJ and gut shot is inexcusable. Clearly not shot by a sportsman. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 1:29:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These. There is a reason that hunting ammo is almost exclusively soft point(with the exception of some specialty rounds). I'd consider using plinking ammo to hunt deer to be unethical. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
FMJ. Poor shot placement. These. There is a reason that hunting ammo is almost exclusively soft point(with the exception of some specialty rounds). I'd consider using plinking ammo to hunt deer to be unethical. in the 3 states I have hunted in FMJ is a no-no on big game. I prefer 68 or 72 grain HP from black hills , but I can't say that would help with that shot much. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 2:24:10 PM EDT
[#36]
In every state I have ever lived in FMJ ammo is illegal to use. Combine that with a marginal caliber for deer hunting and you have the results you witnessed.
We have the responsibility to hunt ethically and make humane kills. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/27/2016 3:17:21 PM EDT
[#37]
I think maybe your buddy should take up a different hobby.
Gut shot with 5.56, this is why hunters get a bad name. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/30/2016 6:58:22 PM EDT
[#38]
That poor deer had a tough night.
That is some next level bad shooting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/30/2016 7:36:39 PM EDT
[#39]
Find a new friend to hunt with, this one is not a sportsman.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/1/2016 12:26:12 PM EDT
[#40]
You received your answer many times over. Bad shot placement nod poor bullet choice.
Why didn't it exit? Wrong bullet for the job. A fmj is not designed for strait penetration. They are somewhat unpredictable in their performance. They may tumble, they may break up or they may change directions on penetration. A hunting bullet, nonpredtor or varmint, is designed to penetrate. Most hunting bullets will penetrate relatively strait and shed a predictable amount of weight for a given velocity and type of media strike. We will all make a less than perfect hit if we hunt long enough. Shit happens in the field. But, the choice of bullet is purely on the shooter. Next time make sure they choose an appropriate bullet or stay home... |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/2/2016 9:08:35 AM EDT
[#41]
One of the clauses in our new firearms rule is no FMJ. Don't know MI reg's but that may well have been an illegal bullet to start with.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2016 2:49:43 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Exactly. Step up to at least a .243; .308 being better. Have shot five deer in the last two years with my Browning .308 with Sierra 165 grain soft points and they never moved more than 30 feet. Most dropped right on the spot. This reported kill using a FMJ and gut shot is inexcusable. Clearly not shot by a sportsman. My .223 ar has taken 5 deer in the last three years.All five went 0 feet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2016 3:14:00 AM EDT
[#43]
OP, I don't hunt but I have friend and family that do. The first thing I said b4 even reading the post and just looking at the pic was "they used a fmj round" and sure as shit... it was fmj. Just a friendly heads up...that's why they make ballistic tip ammo. I'm sure your friend got a screaming deal on wolf ammo...but tell him next time to spend the extra $1 on a box of the correct ammo.
2nd... tell him to get his gun sighted in. That shot wasn't even close to where it should have been. Right now I'm convinced he is a FUDD. 3rd. While the 223/556 is a great hunting caliber, if you are going after something like that, he should really be at least at a .243... and ballistic ammo to match. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/11/2016 8:43:28 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1. Looks like gut shot. Poor shot placement. 2. FMJ ammo. Not good for most hunting. Actually prohibited by many places. I'm a little surprised that the deer was found. This. Maybe shooter should take up golf? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/11/2016 9:42:18 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My .223 ar has taken 5 deer in the last three years.All five went 0 feet. You can do the same thing with a 22LR but not only is it pretty much illegal every place it's a bad idea. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/11/2016 10:36:26 AM EDT
[#46]
As others have said.....horrible choice in bullet and poor shot placement. Deer deserve better from your buddy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/13/2016 3:57:46 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As others have said.....horrible choice in bullet and poor shot placement. Deer deserve better from your buddy. This |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/17/2016 1:39:35 PM EDT
[#48]
If that indeed was a raking shot passing through the organs, then poor ammo/cartridge selection is the obvious choice over bullet placement.
Ask yourself what damage a 12 ga. slug would have wrought traversing the same path. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
