public service announcement

Seat belts.... wear them if your tractor has them and you have ROP.

I was being stupid today and because I didn't feel like hitching up the trailer, I decided to move about 500 pounds of stuff in the front loader bucket of my BX2370 down a hill while not wearing my seat belt. Needless to say, it didn't go well. Too much weight on the front end, brakes not strong enough to stop it, and run away here we go. Fortunately, when it finally stopped, it was laying on its side and I wasn't under it. I probably wouldn't have got a scratch if I had been wearing my seat belt. I wasn't, so instead I was laying my side right there next to it. Pretty banged up, some good abrasions, but nothing serious and nothing broke, although I expect to be even more sore tomorrow.

A neighbor stopped and between him, my wife, the Jeep, and me, we were able to turn it right side up.

Be careful and use your brains out there.

They always used to say "keep the shiny side up" but in your case the underneath is shinier than the top side of my old Ford. :-)

Glad you didn't get hurt!

Yeah, it has about 8 hours on it. Picked it up at Coleman's in Independence... it will be going back there next week just for a check out.

Glad to hear you weren't hurt badly...or worse.  

A lot of guys in my area use a 3 point hitch counter weight when working with heavy loads, and they're usually nothing more then a 55 gallon drum filled with concrete.  Keeps the rear end from getting too light.

Seat belts??  At least you've got a roll bar over your head, my 1939 Alice Chalmers A tractor the only safety is go slow and don't do anything that can get you in trouble.



ETA  That's a good looking machine you have.

UGH!  My uncle turned my BX over.  Don't try to start it.  Let the dealership (or you) make certain there is no oil sitting on top of those pistons before you turn the engine over.

As an encouragement, I've dealt with several roll overs and none were very damaging other than cosmetics to the tractor.

OP, Did you at least drop the bucket to try to slow yourself down?  I always carry the load low to the ground for this very reason... had to drop the bucket quick the other day when I was trying to turn around on uneven ground.  One of the rear tires came off the ground but a quick drop of the bucket leveled me out, this was on my JD 5310.  Crap can get sideways pretty quick on a tractor while on uneven ground.

Very happy to hear you are ok. I'd like to see some pics of the damage to the tractor if possible.

I almost rolled my tractor last fall. VERY scarey thing to experience. Mostly cause my tractor is my baby and to roll it would probably make me cry.

In addition to ALWAYS wearing your seatbelt and having your rops up, you should also ALWAYS keep you load low when carrying heavy, and ALWAYS have a ballast box/counter weight on the back. It does two things, keeps your tractor balanced properly, and keeps you from breaking something in the front end like an axle or your steering components. The front axle isn't designed to handle all that weight without a ballast in the back.

Here is mine. 2012 BX2660. Bigger engine, and last year before DEF and regeneration, and all that crazy jazz. The ballast box is a cub cadet i bought new off a guy locally who won several at auction somewhere not to far from me. They go for $400+, i got mine for $160. I then filled it with short sections of railroad track, pipes, scrap steel, and all my chains i have. I calculate the full box to weight approx. 650 lbs. considering the loader only picks up at most 700 lbs, its about right.
Do yourself a HUGE favor, buy a ballast box or make one, and make it about 650 lbs. i also have Rimguard (beet juice and molasses) in the rear tires for added ballast.

Moving a tractor with a full loader, high up, with no ballast in the tires or ballast box, is pure suicide. I bet JPL wil back me up on that.

Even with all my ballast, when my loader is full of anything heavy like wet topsoil or gravel, and i'm moving, the loader is TWO inches off the ground. No higher.

Good luck. Be safe.

ouch, yea if in that situation drop your bucket for the big brake effect.    Glad you don't have a broken neck

I have a hill that I live on so I am always dealing with this and I have more than once been forced to back out of plan.  I have not had a runaway tractor yet and I hope I never do.  

I have a B3200 with a mower deck (belly) and it lifts with linkages to lift arms.  I really can't keep the deck on and put something on the lift arms.  One or the other.  Does the BX work the same way?

I have ballasted rear tires and in the winter I keep the woods box blade on it for weight, in the spring it's the roto tiller, both around 300 plus pounds.  With the ballasted tires it's pretty stable but I still have ample caution (fear) side hilling.  When on the hills I'm in 4wd.  

I do put the rops up but honestly almost never use the seatbelt.   Yea I'm a jack ass.


There is no reason to be travelling with a full bucket much above your front tire height.   You can lift it again when you get where you're going.

Glad the OP is mostly OK.

Front end loaders are handy and just when you are feeling comfortable with it something happens real fast.
I personally have several thousand hours with a mid sized John Deer at the local Ag Fair . I have had a bit of luck and never put it over but was way too close for comfort a few times.

Classic with a four wheel drive tractor is scooping out of a pile then backing up and turning the wheel . If the rears are on something slick and the fronts are biting
in (which they are with a load in the bucket) turning the wheel will change the driving force from pushing you backwards to flipping you over in a heartbeat

Did that with wet heavy snow and caught it.   Spooky fast is right.   An attention getter for sure.

Hindsight and all.... as I was standing there wondering how to turn it upright, that thought occurred to me.

I am definitely buying a ballast box for the rear of the tractor. I think today, while I sit here on the couch.  

This was my own damn fault but I suppose other than a little cosmetic damage (to the tractor) and some aches and pains, God let me off with a warning. I intend to remember this lesson too.

No real damage that I could find. Some scratches as to be expected, but the only things that came lose were the warning triangle and the lens covers from the impact side of the tractor. The light housing itself was not damaged so the covers should pop back on. Same with the warning triangle. It did restart after sitting for awhile but its spitting a little oil out with the exhaust so I only ran it long enough to get it up the hill into the outbuilding. I plan on taking it back to the dealer in the coming week to make sure everything is okay.

glad everyone seems OK.

as a BX owner for the last 6 years (and about ~500 operating hours) , i have to comment on a few things:

1) you should not be operating a BX with the FEL mounted but without suitable ballast (either a loaded ballast box or some heavy TPH implement).  using the FEL without accompanying ballast not only destabilizes the tractor (as you have experienced) but also puts immense stress on the front axle and drive hubs.  these are not trivial nor inexpensive items to replace and therefore ALWAYS use suitable ballast when the tractor is equipped with the FEL.   this is covered in your operator's manual.

2) when using the FEL, be aware that optimum braking can only be attained in 4WD.  carried weight on the FEL (especially when there is no ballast around back) "deloads" weight on the rear tires.  when you back off of the hydrostatic pedal, the combination of forward momentum and minimal weight on the rear tires can lead to unwanted excitement and wet pants, ESPECIALLY when you are headed downhill (which exacerbates the weight transfer problem even further).  hence it is CRITICAL that if this occurs you a) KEEP A FIRM GRIP ON THE STEERING WHEEL AT ALL TIMES, and b) gently push the FEL control lever forward to lower the load.  if you let go of the steering wheel under those circumstances the pivot point at the front axle (characteristic of ANY tractor by the way) will allow the tractor to rotate slightly to one side and then topple.  this is of course made worse (i.e., it happens faster!) when the FEL and it's carried load is up high.   even with an empty FEL bucket you can topple any tractor this way.   in 4WD, the front wheels contribute to braking and the runaway problem can be averted.  but if the FEL is up high, as seen in your picture, *any* unevenness to the braking situation (for example, asphalt on one side, gravel on the other) will result in asymmetrical braking force and the tractor will turn slightly, become unstable, and then overturn.

3) with the ROPS up, always wear your seatbelt.  the ROPS is designed to protect you, but it can only do so if you remain in the operator area.  if you fall out and the tractor rolls over you, that's a problem the ROPS was not designed to solve because you were supposed to be belted in.  summary: ROPS on = seatbelt on.  

ar-jedi

ps just in case my shorthand isn't clear...
FEL = front end loader
TPH = three point hitch

If it didn't run on its side.

We had a 4020 chase a guy down a hill (he bailed out) until it hit a tree.  She ran upside down until the engine locked up.

+1 to whoever says to carry your load low.  It is more stable (huge) and if bad things happen it is easy to set down.

But "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger"

No ballast?

Well since your okay I can say this.

Best thing to do with a new tractor is hit something hard with it or drive it under a tree that's too low. Better to get a good a scratch or deny early otherwise you spend all your time trying to avoid them

No, and I won't make that mistake again.

In addition to what ar jedi said, add ballast to your rear tires as well.  Depending on where you live, water with a couple gallons of RV antifreeze will work (like where I live) or if you live in a really cold climate, look into having Rimguard (aka beet juice) added to the rear tires.  About $3/gallon but weighs about 11 lbs/gal (vs. 8.2 lbs /gal for straight water); and won't freeze until 50 below or so.

Whenever I forget to put my tractor in 4wd before heading down my hill, I get what I call a "Two inch ride".  That is, I suck up about 2" of seat cushion before getting it under control.  Thankfully, I don't do it very very often (usually once per season).

And I live on a pretty steep hill.  Not rolling over is my primary fear, risk and avoidance when I'm on my tractor.

I almost turned my new 1025R over this summer. I bought a balast box the next day. Scary stuff!

Is the tractor a Tier 4 diesel?  Did the engine shut off?  I heard when tier 4 rolls over you can't shut the engine off.  Glad you're OK!  I've had close calls on my L3901.

It's the rifle your supposed to throw down the driveway, not the tractor OP.

Next time try to drop the loader bucket to the ground to help you stop. Nothing in it is worth getting hurt or worse.

Couldn't tell you on the tier 4 question. It is a new Kubota BX2370. The engine ran for a bit but shut itself off ( I think, I don't actually remember ).

Tier 4 exhaust treatment is only required above 25hp; all BX's with less than 25hp -- like the OP's BX2370 -- have been Tier 4 since 2008.  

regardless of emissions equipage, practically every diesel engine design is capable of consuming it's own lubricating oil for maintaining combustion.  this can be the result of something simple such as a turbo bearing leak or it can be the result of overturning.  remember that a typical diesel engine does not regulate the amount of air being introduced into the engine; as long as more and more fuel is introduced, the engine will run and turn faster and faster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway

ar-jedi

So you dodged two bullets, not just one.

As JPL said above, before trying to start it, ensure that the cylinders aren't full of oil that drained into them when the tractor is on it's side.  

The standard procedure I've read on TBN is to upright the tractor and then let it sit for +24 hours or so.  Then try to turn the engine - by hand - using a wrench on the crankshaft.  If the engine rotates but then locks up, you then have to either remove the injectors and blow the oil out or let it sit some more so the oil can drain back out.  If you can turn the engines several rotations by hand, then it's ok to start up

Using the starter to start a tractor with oil filled cylinders and therefore will lock up can lead to bent wrist pins or worse.  So now a simple overturned tractor operation becomes a non-warrantable engine rebuild operation.  Read:  $$$$.

And welcome to the world of tractors!

yea, the oil spitting out the exhaust was the oil that made its way to the top of the piston while it was on its side. Hopefully you did not bend any rods.

Glad we are commenting on the tractor though, and not you being dented!

Slightly off, but on the topic of rolling a tractor...

Something else to watch out for is pulling a tank full of liquid. I know someone who rolled a tractor once pulling a large water tank on a trailer. On a hillside that ordinarily wouldn't have been a problem, they were driving parallel to the contour of the hill and wanted to turn around. They weren't moving fast, but when they turned all the water swished to the other side of the tank, rolling the trailer which in turn rolled the tractor.

I went and picked up a BX a few years ago with a hydraulic line busted.  I checked the hyd oil and it was low but ok to start long enough to load on the trailer.  

I start the tractor and the engine begins to run away with itself and SMOKE like I've never seen an engine smoke before.  I shut the key off, but it kept going.  I started to panic and had prepared myself that the engine was going to run away with itself and blow.  Fortunately I got my wits about me and decided to put my hand over the air intake.  When I did it was then I realized that the busted hyd line was shooting oil directly into the air intake!!!  That engine was running on the hyd oil going into the air filter intake.  How crazy is that

I'm learning some good things in this thread.

Do not do that again.

A guy I used to work with had a diesel ran away so he stuck a shop manual over the intake. It sucked it down into the stack before it choked the fire out, he had a heck of a time getting it back out.  They can have no mercy, especially if they have a turbo.  I would seek cover before I risked a hand to that.

the suggestion i have always heard is to use a heavyweight rag or bath towel or similar to clog the air intake and stop the runaway.    
now then, i typically don't keep my bath towel hanging on the side of the tractor...  

ar-jedi

ps

i seriously don't know what these drunk retards are up to but if you want to lose an arm or a leg this is certainly a practical approach...



see also
http://bangshift.com/general-news/videos/danger-video-watch-an-ancient-stationary-diesel-run-away-on-fire-up-and-the-huge-guy-who-wrestles-it-back-to-idle/

i thought of you the other day.  

i fixed my retired neighbor's self-propelled mower a couple of weeks ago.  he always has some sort of mechanical problem for me to work on, his eyes are going so i always lend a hand.  anyway he tells his golfing buddies, "my neighbor is a damn good mechanic and can fix ANYTHING".  i never told him that.  i told him i could fix ANYTHING with enough time, a service manual, and some parts.  he left those last items out.  

anyway my neighbor comes to me and says his golfing buddy has a project for me, can i come take a look at it.  i ask what it is, he says its some sort of old tractor.  never to turn down such an offer we drive over to this guy's hobby farm (it's about 25 acres), walk for a ways into the woods, and it turns out what he actually has is a small tracked bulldozer, a Cat D4, from about 1950.  it's pretty beat up, heavily rusted, and apparently it hasn't moved since about 1980.  his teenage grandson had done as asked and string trimmed around this pile of rusted iron and steel, and cut out the vines and weeds which had overtaken it.  

so now i'm less enthused about the prospect of getting a near-free "broken" old tractor but nevertheless not everyone has a pet bulldozer project.  

anyway, i look over this thing for about 10-15 minutes and although i had heard about "pony motors" i had never actually seen such an arrangement in front of me before.  there is no electrical system whatsoever in this old D4; there is a small gasoline engine (aka the "pony engine") which is basically mounted to (and shares coolant with) the larger diesel traction engine.  so you pull start the gasoline engine, let it run for about 5-10 minutes depending on outside temperature, and then engage a levered clutch which is essentially mates the starter pinion on the gas engine output shaft to the diesel engine's flywheel.  if all goes well the diesel engine starts, spins the starter pinion back out, and then you can shut off the gas engine.  in this way, you don't need any electrical system whatsoever on the bulldozer, and hence there are no issues related to dead batteries or broken starter motors and so on.  

that's the cool part but the reality of it is that this thing has been sitting for 30+ years.  i explain to the guy that this is no "weekend project" -- just to get the pony motor started could be an exercise in futility if the crankshaft etc is rusted in place.  and the diesel itself -- it has to be completely disassembled and cleaned and checked, and for that matter no one knows why it's out back here in the first place -- it may have thrown a rod and left in place to die peacefully.  so he says, "my uncle went back to Kentucky about 20 years ago, he might know whether it was running or not..."  

i informed him this is an interesting find TO THE RIGHT PERSON but currently he has a 10,000 pound paperweight in his yard.  i told him i would google around a bit and see if there is a "D4 owners club" and whether someone would be interested in retrieving a dead D4 that hasn't moved in a third of a century, but so far i haven't found anyone who fits.

so, do you want a D4?  

ar-jedi

that would be a fun project for sure!! I am sure it wouldn't take much as long as the main engine spun over. I am a heavy equipment mechanic I have overhauled 2 cat maintainers this year one thing when starting them we are always sure to have a nice hunk of steel so we can throw over the intake to prevent a runaway I think you should take the D4 if they are giving it away it would be a cool project get it running and use it lol

So my first thought is I'd love to have it.  

I'd paint it up perfectly so it looks new, dig a big whole and burry it so the ass end sticks straight up in the air, go out with a hoe once a week or so , so it looks like the tracks leading to it are fresh.  What a conversation piece

i could rent a dozer *and* a mini-ex for a week for less than it would cost to retrieve and transport that old D4 to someplace i could work on it!  

last week i sent the following thread to the guy with the dozer, as an example:
http://www.acmoc.org/bb/showthread.php?9567-what-is-it-worth-D4

that's pretty much what he has (although in the thread above the pony motor has electric start, i think from reading those starting systems could be added after the fact).
but the dozer i looked at seemed to be in much worse shape mechanically (especially in terms of rust).

ar-jedi

incidentally, this is the starting process for a "pony engine"-equipped Cat dozer...


though, note that this particular setup has an electric start pony engine.




but this one has the standard pull start

We have a board ready and the precleaner off when we put a injection pump on in case the diesel shop screwed something up.  Haven't needed one yet.



Make sure you have good fuel to the injection pump, find a bigger horse, put the dozer in a higher gear and pull start it to see what you have.  If it runs well proceed with the pony motor.

My cousin's husband has an International dozer, they just drag start it and don't mess with the pony.

Crankshaft shouldn't rust in place, usually the pistons can rust into the bores... there are ways of dealing with that too.  Big thing is if the exhausts have been covered.  Rust on the outside is trivial, it isn't like a car that gets a salt bath for months during the winter.  Most everything is cast iron aside from the sheetmetal and fuel tank and usually after they get a coating of surface rust it doesn't go any farther than that.

This is my latest acquisition. hadn't ran since the early 80's.  Engine was free, changed some gaskets, did a valve job (should have ran without but a bunch of bugs had gotten down in the exhaust manifold over the years and died so the valves couldn't seat), rewired it (easy) rebuilt the carb and it ran great... needs a radiator at the moment though.  After it ran for about 10 minutes it had 3 streamers.

 

OP, glad to hear you are ok.  When I purchased my JD 1026R with FEL the dealer stepped me through their order system explaining how they can't even order a FEL for a new tractor, they have to sell a kit of the FEL and ballast box.  After reading a bunch of posts on greentractortalk (kind of the AFCOM of JD tractors) it was clear to me the BB was a critical piece of equipment.  And there is nothing like the first few times carrying a bucket full of some material to feel how the weight and balance effects the machine.  I was fortunate that I learned all of this ahead of time and not the hard way.  It also caused me to get the JD iMatch hitch for my 3 pt as it makes it so easy to get the BB and other attachments on and off.  The BB is the first thing that goes on and last to come off when using the FEL  And really paying attention to the angle and direction around hills and slopes in my yard.

Pretty area.

 

We have an old Cat D7 that starts up the same way. Our pony motor is a pain in the ass to get started though and is deafening loud, much louder than the big diesel.



Not ours but just like it.







 

Check the undercarriage. What condition are the sprockets and idlers in? See how bad they are worn or if they have welded places. Old dozers aren't that hard to work on, especially a D4.



 

It is a Allis-Chalmers WD.  WD-45 is darn near identical, WC is older and looks similar.

Keep the thing running if you can... and get a carport if you have to keep it inside.

Those are cool old tractors.  My buddy has restored a few of his dad's and they still get used.