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AR15.COM
4/15/2009 11:02:12 AM EDT
Snowmonkey's thread about wanting to see everyone' pantries got me to thinking seriously about this.  I have no good place for long-term food storage.  No garage, no basement, and no real space in the house, which is still under renovation/restoration.  



So I was thinking.  Next time I have somebody over with a hoe, if I had them dig me a root cellar/storm cellar-like room into the bank in my front yard, is there any real way to keep such a place spider-and-snake free?  The thing I've always hated about those old-fashioned cellars is that they grow wolf spiders the size of army tanks, and therefore I HATE going into the cellar and will avoid it.  I'm not scared of the snakes, but still I don't like the surprises.  I've never seen a cellar or a well or pump house that didn't have those monster wolf spiders (and lots of others) in it.  And what's necessary to make it a good storage space if it's not attached to the house?  If there are steps down to the door, doesn't that also mean it will freeze in there too?  



I suspect there are gobs of "cellar" threads on ARfcom, but maybe none specific to food storage in four seasons.  My grandmother had a basement with a big tater bin, a place she could spread her onions out, and shelves on two walls with jars eight-deep.  SERIOUS storage space.  I got nada.  



But her basement was heated in the winter (wood stove that warmed the floors and cut down on the fuel oil usage) and so there was no problem with freezing the stored food.



If y'all have links to other threads, that's cool, but I'd be interested in what you have done or what you've seen done, when no basement is available.



thanks

kitties
4/15/2009 2:08:31 PM EDT
[#1]
http://www.amazon.com/Root-Cellaring-Natural-Storage-Vegetables/dp/0882667033

We picked this book up, good info.
4/15/2009 2:12:28 PM EDT
[#2]
We built one for my parents a few years ago.  We dug back into the hillside across the creek from their house.  Gravel over drainage pipes for the floor.  The walls are rail road ties cut where needed and nailed together with great big ass nails.  It's about 7 feet high, 10 feet wide and 12 feed deep.  The inside of the walls have old pieces of mine belt nailed up inside them so that any water that gets through the walls runs down between the ties and the belt and then it drains out through the gravel and drainage pipe.  Their is a wood shop over top of it with 10" of insulation.  The front door is 10" thick.  The door/door facing is tapered on the opening side so that it closes tightly.  It has one of those little old pull string lights inside.  Some low (about 2 to 3 foot) stone walls were built up at the front corners and dirt shovelled in to slope up the sides but much of the front end sides are exposed to the air.  The back wall is completely up against the dirt and the front wall is completely exposed to the air.

Dad says it never gets below about 34 or 35 F even in the coldest parts of the winter (sometimes 20 below zero in the WV mountains).  It stays about 55 to 58 F in the summer.  The apples last most of the winter.  The potatoes last all winter and the left overs end up getting cut up for seed for the next years planting.  The canned foods never freeze.

It'll be there as long as the house is most likely.
4/16/2009 2:59:39 PM EDT
[#3]




Quoted:

We built one for my parents a few years ago. We dug back into the hillside across the creek from their house. Gravel over drainage pipes for the floor. The walls are rail road ties cut where needed and nailed together with great big ass nails. It's about 7 feet high, 10 feet wide and 12 feed deep. The inside of the walls have old pieces of mine belt nailed up inside them so that any water that gets through the walls runs down between the ties and the belt and then it drains out through the gravel and drainage pipe. Their is a wood shop over top of it with 10" of insulation. The front door is 10" thick. The door/door facing is tapered on the opening side so that it closes tightly. It has one of those little old pull string lights inside. Some low (about 2 to 3 foot) stone walls were built up at the front corners and dirt shovelled in to slope up the sides but much of the front end sides are exposed to the air. The back wall is completely up against the dirt and the front wall is completely exposed to the air.



Dad says it never gets below about 34 or 35 F even in the coldest parts of the winter (sometimes 20 below zero in the WV mountains). It stays about 55 to 58 F in the summer. The apples last most of the winter. The potatoes last all winter and the left overs end up getting cut up for seed for the next years planting. The canned foods never freeze.



It'll be there as long as the house is most likely.


Did y'all dig it by hand or did you use a hoe?  With a ten-inch door I can imagine that it's fairly freeze-proof.  



Kitties

4/16/2009 3:32:27 PM EDT
[#4]

tag.

4/17/2009 8:22:39 AM EDT
[#5]
I was thinking about this.

If one were so inclined. it would not be real hard to dig a hole in the ground just a couple feet deep. Put some gravel in the bottom for drainage, and then put a large plastic storage container there to store your stuff, backfill with sand ot dirt, and cover it with straw bales for insulation.
4/18/2009 6:36:45 AM EDT
[#6]
im getting ready to build a storm/bomb/fallout/root celler this summer. im digging down 5 feet, in a slight hillside, adding 6 inches of gravel, then 6-8 inches of concrete. poured concrete walls, and the 3-4 feet above ground will be covered with dirt. iwill be storing my extra food supplies, ammo, a few guns, and it will be by storm/fallout shelter etc, but mostly used as a root celler. estimated cost. $3000-5000 bucks. heres some ms paint.

here are a few of my ideas. it will be built simular to these.




anyway... it will be 50% below ground, and 50% above ground. we have a backhoe, so that will save a lot of money right there. the mainrea son for it being 50/50 above and below ground, is i want to be able to make it water proof, well, EASILY, make it water proof. im going to use lots of plastic, then coat the outside with tar, add a floor drain, if we dig down 5 feet, it will be a lot easier and simpler, to run drain tile, and gravel to keep the water away from the shelter. its also going to be reasonably large.      either 10x10, or 10x15, but PROBABLY IT WILL BE LARGER,  15wide,x20long, x7-8' high.  i want it big enough to store supplies, use it as a root celler, and even live in it for a while if necessary........i cant wait to start, we just have to waitfor mid summer, so it will be dry enough to drive a concrete truck across my yard.


       and NO, I DO NOT HAVE MUCH MONEY. it took me about a year to make my patio..... we will dig the hole, and 100 foot drain trench, lay the drain tile, and cover with gravel. then add 6 inches of gravel to the bottom of the shelter.............then wait............ it might take 2 months to pay for the floor, and ill have to buy the rebar,/steel wire, a sheet at a time, it might take me 2 years to get this thing finished. luckily i still have a few checks coming from my 401 k, and the va, so it might get jump started. ill also run a phone line, and a electric line from the house. if i get really inspired, ill add a water line, for a sink. then we can take sponge baths, or maybe even rig a shower or something. although thats getting a little fancy.



4/18/2009 6:20:07 PM EDT
[#7]




Quoted:

im getting ready to build a storm/bomb/fallout/root celler this summer. im digging down 5 feet, in a slight hillside, adding 6 inches of gravel, then 6-8 inches of concrete. poured concrete walls, and the 3-4 feet above ground will be covered with dirt. iwill be storing my extra food supplies, ammo, a few guns, and it will be by storm/fallout shelter etc, but mostly used as a root celler. estimated cost. $3000-5000 bucks. heres some ms paint.



here are a few of my ideas. it will be built simular to these.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp58/buck19delta/shelter.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp58/buck19delta/bunker1.jpghttp://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp58/buck19delta/shelter2.jpg





anyway... it will be 50% below ground, and 50% above ground. we have a backhoe, so that will save a lot of money right there. the mainrea son for it being 50/50 above and below ground, is i want to be able to make it water proof, well, EASILY, make it water proof. im going to use lots of plastic, then coat the outside with tar, add a floor drain, if we dig down 5 feet, it will be a lot easier and simpler, to run drain tile, and gravel to keep the water away from the shelter. its also going to be reasonably large. either 10x10, or 10x15, but PROBABLY IT WILL BE LARGER, 15wide,x20long, x7-8' high. i want it big enough to store supplies, use it as a root celler, and even live in it for a while if necessary........i cant wait to start, we just have to waitfor mid summer, so it will be dry enough to drive a concrete truck across my yard.





and NO, I DO NOT HAVE MUCH MONEY. it took me about a year to make my patio..... we will dig the hole, and 100 foot drain trench, lay the drain tile, and cover with gravel. then add 6 inches of gravel to the bottom of the shelter.............then wait............ it might take 2 months to pay for the floor, and ill have to buy the rebar,/steel wire, a sheet at a time, it might take me 2 years to get this thing finished. luckily i still have a few checks coming from my 401 k, and the va, so it might get jump started. ill also run a phone line, and a electric line from the house. if i get really inspired, ill add a water line, for a sink. then we can take sponge baths, or maybe even rig a shower or something. although thats getting a little fancy.


Wow.  That's way fancier than I was thinking.  It's nice though.  How will you make the ceiling?  



Our cellars, when I was growing up, were really small.  Maybe 8 X 8 or so.  They were always dug back into an existing bank (almost always) and had a regular door down just a few steps or that you could walk straight into.  Or else they were underneath the edge of the house with slanted doors like yours.  Shelves lining all the walls for canned food and just room to get the family inside for a storm shelter.  Even that is a stretch for me at this point, though I'd like to have one.  Still....if it won't keep the food from freezing, it's not going to be useful for me.  So that's the key.  I guess a person could build a very thick, hollow-core door and insulate it with foam maybe?



And waterproofing––sheesh––I hadn't even thought of that.  




Kitties