Posted: 1/26/2010 3:45:04 AM EDT
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130346939441&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
NEW 25 Litre Daysack / Backpack by BCB OD Green This pack caught my eye. It appears well made and it is dirt cheap. Anyone familiar with it? BCB seems to make a fair number of high quality outdoors type products. I am looking for a pack that I can take on day hikes, and maybe some 2-3 day hikes. It seems a bit big for that, but I never found that a half empty pack was a terrible thing. http://cgi.ebay.com/EUROPEAN-MILITARY-RUCKSACK-FIELD-GEAR-BAG-PACK-BLACK_W0QQitemZ120521927160QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0faaa9f8 EUROPEAN MILITARY RUCKSACK FIELD GEAR BAG PACK BLACK This one is a bit smaller, maybe making it more suited to its intended use, and in a prefered color, but its a no-name thing. It looks sturdy enough, but you just never know. |
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Quoted: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130346939441&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT NEW 25 Litre Daysack / Backpack by BCB OD Green This pack caught my eye. It appears well made and it is dirt cheap. Anyone familiar with it? BCB seems to make a fair number of high quality outdoors type products. I am looking for a pack that I can take on day hikes, and maybe some 2-3 day hikes. It seems a bit big for that, but I never found that a half empty pack was a terrible thing. http://cgi.ebay.com/EUROPEAN-MILITARY-RUCKSACK-FIELD-GEAR-BAG-PACK-BLACK_W0QQitemZ120521927160QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0faaa9f8 EUROPEAN MILITARY RUCKSACK FIELD GEAR BAG PACK BLACK This one is a bit smaller, maybe making it more suited to its intended use, and in a prefered color, but its a no-name thing. It looks sturdy enough, but you just never know. day hikes and 2-3 day packs are 2 different beast. One becuase of seasonal use's. My summer day pack/over night pack( camelbak mule-milspec) wont hold what i need for winter use over 3 days.Even my BHI 3 day pack wont hold what i would really need for winter use over 2-5 days. i pack light weight gear as it is, but winter means fluffy,bulky stuff( bigger sleeping bags,jackets etc) that is the issue you run into on avg a day pack will be 900-2000CI. You hit the avg 3 day mark past that 2k ci area. 25l is about that 1800-2k area CI wise. That measurement more than likely counts pockets,etc. So expect the bargo area to either big smaller but full of pockets or large with out pockets. |
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Quoted:
day hikes and 2-3 day packs are 2 different beast. One becuase of seasonal use's. My summer day pack/over night pack( camelbak mule-milspec) wont hold what i need for winter use over 3 days.Even my BHI 3 day pack wont hold what i would really need for winter use over 2-5 days. i pack light weight gear as it is, but winter means fluffy,bulky stuff( bigger sleeping bags,jackets etc) that is the issue you run into on avg a day pack will be 900-2000CI. You hit the avg 3 day mark past that 2k ci area. 25l is about that 1800-2k area CI wise. That measurement more than likely counts pockets,etc. So expect the bargo area to either big smaller but full of pockets or large with out pockets. I guess in the back of my mind I was not really planning any winter backpack camping excursions for the pack I am looking for. I was thinking a pack large enough for a 2 or 3 day hike might be a bit large for a day hike, but leaving a pack half empty is no sin. When I was younger and dumber I would spend a day hiking with not much more than a small pack (and I mean really small) that held a couple of sandwiches and a thermos of coffee, with an old army canteen on a belt around my waist. The pack mostly got used as a place to hold the light jacket I was wearing when it got too warm to wear it. I was not dumb enough to go way out in the woods with such a setup though. These days I would look at such a deal and wonder how I managed to survive at all.  All it would have taken was a sudden change in the weather, or the wrong turn and I could have been in real trouble. I don't think I ever took a map or a compass, although a few times I had printed pamphlets from the parks I was in that had some kind of trail diagram.
Maybe neither pack is appropriate for a 2 or 3 day hike. I never did backpack camping before and thought I might give it a try this summer. My dad went with a friend of his to wolf island one summer and they did not have real big packs. I think they were there for 5 or 6 nights. |
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Quoted: Quoted: day hikes and 2-3 day packs are 2 different beast. One becuase of seasonal use's. My summer day pack/over night pack( camelbak mule-milspec) wont hold what i need for winter use over 3 days.Even my BHI 3 day pack wont hold what i would really need for winter use over 2-5 days. i pack light weight gear as it is, but winter means fluffy,bulky stuff( bigger sleeping bags,jackets etc) that is the issue you run into on avg a day pack will be 900-2000CI. You hit the avg 3 day mark past that 2k ci area. 25l is about that 1800-2k area CI wise. That measurement more than likely counts pockets,etc. So expect the bargo area to either big smaller but full of pockets or large with out pockets. I guess in the back of my mind I was not really planning any winter backpack camping excursions for the pack I am looking for. I was thinking a pack large enough for a 2 or 3 day hike might be a bit large for a day hike, but leaving a pack half empty is no sin. When I was younger and dumber I would spend a day hiking with not much more than a small pack (and I mean really small) that held a couple of sandwiches and a thermos of coffee, with an old army canteen on a belt around my waist. The pack mostly got used as a place to hold the light jacket I was wearing when it got too warm to wear it. I was not dumb enough to go way out in the woods with such a setup though. These days I would look at such a deal and wonder how I managed to survive at all. All it would have taken was a sudden change in the weather, or the wrong turn and I could have been in real trouble. I don't think I ever took a map or a compass, although a few times I had printed pamphlets from the parks I was in that had some kind of trail diagram.Maybe neither pack is appropriate for a 2 or 3 day hike. I never did backpack camping before and thought I might give it a try this summer. My dad went with a friend of his to wolf island one summer and they did not have real big packs. I think they were there for 5 or 6 nights. dont confuse what i posted as saying you need a super huge pack. I was just giving avg sizes for what most folks pick as day pack and what companies deem day pack size. IMHO 2-3 days of back packing in mild weather with loads under 30lbs i would say go with any well made 1800-2000+ pack( like your 1st link) If your load excedes that i would look for a internal framed 2 day pack. These are normally around 2300ci and up. I have 3 packs. that i use the most, and to be honest none of them do it all. Though i am wanting to find the holy grail of do it all packs i have yet to find it. for 3 days i would be at the 2300-3kci mark. for my "perfect" bag for all seaons down here. However, i need to break or destroy the ones i have already before i can justify buying another. That said i'm either running a 4500ci internal framed kelty or my med alice and if im going super light weight,in summer 1 nighter i'll run my cbak mule. |
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I generally defer to Protus about these things, but I would add that the addition of Quick-Release, adjustible compression straps to most packs will allow the user to use a too-large pack––say a winter-capacity pack––during the summer. Ideally, we would have the perfect pack for all conditions, but some of us have to prioritize, and a large-cap winter pack will do for most any occasion, as long as it is compressed when carrying less than full capicity. Granted there are weight penalties for doing so, but it's a trade-off.
The point here is that most folks have a tendency to fill up, to capacity, what they have, instead of ruthlessly eliminating un-necessary items. Experience will provide the knowledge to allow you to do this, hopefully. Can't speak for Protus, but I suspect he is trying to push you towards optimum-sized packs for conditions anticipated. In this case, the capacity of the pack will force you to pick-and-choose what you take, and there is a lot to be said for that approach. More experienced, and, hopefully more disciplined users, will have the self-restraint not to fill up their winter bag during a summer's outing. |
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my opinion is that compression straps are great for taking the shift/slack out of unstuffed packs, but mostly don't do a great job of making a big pack into a small pack... bottom line get a pack that fits what you plan to carry. Some packs have straps to basically cut the size of compartments, but overall my opinion is that it's easier to have two packs (provided that they aren't defense-budget-priced with horned pachyderms on the label or similar) that fit than one pack that sucks in warm weather and is good in winter. As much as a "smaller is better" guy as I am, I'm thinking of buying a slightly larger pack for cold weather just so I'm not stuffed to capacity. I'm really considering the kelty coyote or even redcloud since they're just a little bigger and moderately priced.
protus is dead on when he says that winter gear is "fluffier" than warm weather gear. This time of year, my pack (3-4 days/2-3 nights) is pretty tight at 4500 in^3 if I pack luxuriously***, even though I'm just under 30lbs. Summertime I can get by with a smaller bag or really cinch down the same pack (I cut down to about 25 lbs but I have a lot more space in my pack). Granted that this is "non-tactical" setup (i.e. I don't pack long arms, LBVs, armor, night vision, rappelling gear, helmets, or any of the other gizmos many SF types seem to love –– not a criticism, just a difference in style), just food/drink, living gear, shelter, basic tools, and a few luxuries. *** by luxuriously I mean I pack a real tent instead of a tarp shelter, bring a small pillow, and stuff like an ipod, paperback and fishing gear ( I also have been known to bring a tarp and a tent because I've been known to set up a basecamp that looks like I'm staying a month with friends even if I'm alone... a tarp "porch" and a camp stool make for comfy living even in shitty weather, and a tent is just plain more comfortable than a tarp at the cost of more crap to haul around). For setups closer to "bare minimum" I can even fit winter gear in my pack with some room to spare (i.e. more room for food/water if necessary). I admit that I'm more of a weight whore than cubic-inch whore. My biggest luxury for the "kitchen sink" setup is lashing a collapsible stool to the top of my pack (having a place to sit down, especially if its not the cold wet ground is a huge luxury). |
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Quoted: I generally defer to Protus about these things, but I would add that the addition of Quick-Release, adjustible compression straps to most packs will allow the user to use a too-large pack––say a winter-capacity pack––during the summer. Ideally, we would have the perfect pack for all conditions, but some of us have to prioritize, and a large-cap winter pack will do for most any occasion, as long as it is compressed when carrying less than full capicity. Granted there are weight penalties for doing so, but it's a trade-off. The point here is that most folks have a tendency to fill up, to capacity, what they have, instead of ruthlessly eliminating un-necessary items. Experience will provide the knowledge to allow you to do this, hopefully. Can't speak for Protus, but I suspect he is trying to push you towards optimum-sized packs for conditions anticipated. In this case, the capacity of the pack will force you to pick-and-choose what you take, and there is a lot to be said for that approach. More experienced, and, hopefully more disciplined users, will have the self-restraint not to fill up their winter bag during a summer's outing. naw raf your on what i was anglin at. I was just trying to fit a pack to what the OP was looking for. I have always said that a 4-5k pack will do all year round if you pack correctly. down here and other warmer areas you may be able to swing a 2800-3800 CI pack. Thats if it is a true 2800 ci and not CI thats made up of little pockets and pouches. |
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Quoted: my opinion is that compression straps are great for taking the shift/slack out of unstuffed packs, but mostly don't do a great job of making a big pack into a small pack... bottom line get a pack that fits what you plan to carry. Some packs have straps to basically cut the size of compartments, but overall my opinion is that it's easier to have two packs (provided that they aren't defense-budget-priced with horned pachyderms on the label or similar) that fit than one pack that sucks in warm weather and is good in winter. As much as a "smaller is better" guy as I am, I'm thinking of buying a slightly larger pack for cold weather just so I'm not stuffed to capacity. I'm really considering the kelty coyote or even redcloud since they're just a little bigger and moderately priced. protus is dead on when he says that winter gear is "fluffier" than warm weather gear. This time of year, my pack (3-4 days/2-3 nights) is pretty tight at 4500 in^3 if I pack luxuriously***, even though I'm just under 30lbs. Summertime I can get by with a smaller bag or really cinch down the same pack (I cut down to about 25 lbs but I have a lot more space in my pack). Granted that this is "non-tactical" setup (i.e. I don't pack long arms, LBVs, armor, night vision, rappelling gear, helmets, or any of the other gizmos many SF types seem to love –– not a criticism, just a difference in style), just food/drink, living gear, shelter, basic tools, and a few luxuries. *** by luxuriously I mean I pack a real tent instead of a tarp shelter, bring a small pillow, and stuff like an ipod, paperback and fishing gear ( I also have been known to bring a tarp and a tent because I've been known to set up a basecamp that looks like I'm staying a month with friends even if I'm alone... a tarp "porch" and a camp stool make for comfy living even in shitty weather, and a tent is just plain more comfortable than a tarp at the cost of more crap to haul around). For setups closer to "bare minimum" I can even fit winter gear in my pack with some room to spare (i.e. more room for food/water if necessary). I admit that I'm more of a weight whore than cubic-inch whore. My biggest luxury for the "kitchen sink" setup is lashing a collapsible stool to the top of my pack (having a place to sit down, especially if its not the cold wet ground is a huge luxury). This post has me looking up ways to make a "field expedient" camp stool from materials available at the location. When I have camped from my ATV, I always bring a small folding table and a folding stool. But it would be nice to have some plans to make an easy one in the field. I do know that the little folding tripod stools are available. If you took the fabric "seat" portion off and left the aluminum legs at home, you could just cut some saplings for legs and use the fabric seat (it has three pockets for the ends of the legs). The seat would be small and light compared to packing the entire stool around. But then, you'd at least need to pack sufficient tools with you to be able to cut the wood to build it. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
my opinion is that compression straps are great for taking the shift/slack out of unstuffed packs, but mostly don't do a great job of making a big pack into a small pack... bottom line get a pack that fits what you plan to carry. Some packs have straps to basically cut the size of compartments, but overall my opinion is that it's easier to have two packs (provided that they aren't defense-budget-priced with horned pachyderms on the label or similar) that fit than one pack that sucks in warm weather and is good in winter. As much as a "smaller is better" guy as I am, I'm thinking of buying a slightly larger pack for cold weather just so I'm not stuffed to capacity. I'm really considering the kelty coyote or even redcloud since they're just a little bigger and moderately priced. protus is dead on when he says that winter gear is "fluffier" than warm weather gear. This time of year, my pack (3-4 days/2-3 nights) is pretty tight at 4500 in^3 if I pack luxuriously***, even though I'm just under 30lbs. Summertime I can get by with a smaller bag or really cinch down the same pack (I cut down to about 25 lbs but I have a lot more space in my pack). Granted that this is "non-tactical" setup (i.e. I don't pack long arms, LBVs, armor, night vision, rappelling gear, helmets, or any of the other gizmos many SF types seem to love –– not a criticism, just a difference in style), just food/drink, living gear, shelter, basic tools, and a few luxuries. *** by luxuriously I mean I pack a real tent instead of a tarp shelter, bring a small pillow, and stuff like an ipod, paperback and fishing gear ( I also have been known to bring a tarp and a tent because I've been known to set up a basecamp that looks like I'm staying a month with friends even if I'm alone... a tarp "porch" and a camp stool make for comfy living even in shitty weather, and a tent is just plain more comfortable than a tarp at the cost of more crap to haul around). For setups closer to "bare minimum" I can even fit winter gear in my pack with some room to spare (i.e. more room for food/water if necessary). I admit that I'm more of a weight whore than cubic-inch whore. My biggest luxury for the "kitchen sink" setup is lashing a collapsible stool to the top of my pack (having a place to sit down, especially if its not the cold wet ground is a huge luxury). This post has me looking up ways to make a "field expedient" camp stool from materials available at the location. When I have camped from my ATV, I always bring a small folding table and a folding stool. But it would be nice to have some plans to make an easy one in the field. I do know that the little folding tripod stools are available. If you took the fabric "seat" portion off and left the aluminum legs at home, you could just cut some saplings for legs and use the fabric seat (it has three pockets for the ends of the legs). The seat would be small and light compared to packing the entire stool around. But then, you'd at least need to pack sufficient tools with you to be able to cut the wood to build it. I'm close enough to 100% certain you could do it with a multitool (if it has a saw blade) or a camp saw (hell, a pocketknife in a pinch), three sticks, and either a piece of paracord or a few zip ties (and either a piece of cloth, or the disassembled nylon from the stool). That being said, being the spoiled old fart that I am (even at my relatively young age) I'll just pack a damned stool. I can't say enough about how nice it is to have a place to sit down. I've made due without lots of times, but it's really nice to sit outside on a nice night, or have the ability to sit under a tarp when it's raining or drizzling and enjoy the outdoors and drink a cup of tea or soup (not a coffee guy). I can definitely do with less if I am trying to cover a lot of miles and every ounce counts, but if I'm going a few miles and setting up camp for a few days to fish or just hang out I love to be able to get as comfy as possible. I'm there, after all, to relax and have fun. If I want to do a bug eating deathmarch I guess I could but why the hell would I want to do that (especially that I've already proven to myself that I can)? The reason I like having a tarp and a tent for my boonie-hilton is that if the weather is wet but not too windy I can still sit outside instead of being cooped up. If you have 2 tarps, you can also do the same thing (for less bulk and weight), just set up your sleeping tarp with a slightly higher "porch" area made of the second tarp. This isn't a great idea in heavy wind, but if you want shade or protection from moderate rain it beats spending too much time in your sleeping bag in the same tiny area you're sleeping in.... |
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I use a large ALICE pack for EVERYTHING. I got it from US Cavalry for 60 bucks when I was 17-18 years old. When the Marines realized MOLLE packs are retarded and let us use our own gear, I used my ALICE pack for that. Hunting, camping, cross country travel, that pack goes along.
I retro fit fastex clips on the cargo straps, the big cushy straps w/ sternum strap, a better waist belt, and have a pair of bungee cords to run horizontally to shrink it up if it's only half full. I've had it weighing well over 100 pounds and still be "comfortable". I don't know about anyone else, but if a pack is going to be on my back for more than a few hours with a decent load (especially 2-3 days) It's GOT to have a belt, and a sternum strap. A nice wide cushy waist belt and lumbar pad is a must. Hips bear weight better than shoulders. I always adjusted my pack so 75% of the weight was on my hips, the balance on the straps. Plus I could adjust as necessary to keep from wearing out. The bottom link bag is made for college students to look trendy. Those are typically made from cheap cotton, and not well reinforced. |
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This post has me looking up ways to make a "field expedient" camp stool from materials available at the location. When I have camped from my ATV, I always bring a small folding table and a folding stool. But it would be nice to have some plans to make an easy one in the field. I do know that the little folding tripod stools are available. If you took the fabric "seat" portion off and left the aluminum legs at home, you could just cut some saplings for legs and use the fabric seat (it has three pockets for the ends of the legs). The seat would be small and light compared to packing the entire stool around. But then, you'd at least need to pack sufficient tools with you to be able to cut the wood to build it. I saw a video on youtube on making a camp stool. I was thinking about the stool idea the other day. I had a couple ideas. One of them involved putting a bucket in a back that could be taken out and sat on. In fact one really wierd idea involved putting some straps on a 5 gallon pail and making it into a pack. BTW, I was looking around on ebay today and notice a fair number of used large and medium alice packs that seemed pretty reasonable. Included frame and straps. Is a used alice pack a good option? Not thrilled with the color choice, but I suppose I could live with it. |
| I actually just droped a few bucks on the first one. I will let you know how it looks when I get it if you are still interested. I have an old alice medium ruck without a frame that I have taken to iraq and afghanistan as a light infantryman and it has never failed me. My regular ruck and assult bag got very little use compared to the old alice one. |
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I actually just droped a few bucks on the first one. I will let you know how it looks when I get it if you are still interested. I have an old alice medium ruck without a frame that I have taken to iraq and afghanistan as a light infantryman and it has never failed me. My regular ruck and assult bag got very little use compared to the old alice one. I'd be interested in what you think of it when it gets there. It seems to be frameless though. Does that matter much in a smallish pack like that? |
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Quoted: Quoted: I actually just droped a few bucks on the first one. I will let you know how it looks when I get it if you are still interested. I have an old alice medium ruck without a frame that I have taken to iraq and afghanistan as a light infantryman and it has never failed me. My regular ruck and assult bag got very little use compared to the old alice one. I'd be interested in what you think of it when it gets there. It seems to be frameless though. Does that matter much in a smallish pack like that? it's how much weight you put in it....and how you pack it, |
| With packs this size I would not worry about a frame. In the military we would use rucks with frames and attach our assault bags to the tops of the rucks. So this could be a bag you attach to a larger ruck in the future. I found a review of the 35L version on youtube. www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoBcIw821II Looks pretty awesome, but I hope the 25L version does not have the belt. I just got my shipping data from the seller and it should arrive Monday, so I will post about it Tuesday. If you do like the review on youtube he does have the 35L version as well for sale, but I think it is like 27 bucks compared to the 15 bucks for the 25L. |