Posted: 12/19/2009 1:40:05 PM EDT
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So I need a compass and need to learn how to use one.
I'm ashamed to say I was a boyscout once upon a time but I don't know much about navigating. After surfing and reading reviews I think a good choice would be a Suunto M3D, but the MC-2G looks nice too, and gets good reviews. Question: Do I need a clinometer? Do I need a mirror? IS there a better compass for the money? Id rather cry once and all that...quality counts/extravagance not required 
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Get the Silva Ranger Type 15 (or Suunto equivalent).
Clino's not essential but the 15 comes with it. Mirror sighting, IMO, is essential. Not only will it enhance your sighting accuracy, you can use it to look around corners, pick gunk out of your eye, check out that laceration on your ear, etc. Linky... ETA: I'm a forester by trade and I've used this model exclusively for the past 20 years. Never fail. |
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heavy bulky and more expensive for a quality USGI. Also because I read reviews saying they are more difficult to use than the "regular" type. not more difficult –– just different. once you use a camminga (us gi compass) and plotter you will never use a base plate compass again. its just too easy and so accurate. heavier perhaps-but indestructible. |
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Quoted: I looked into these and it appears the quality is not what it used to be. Looks like the Brunton 15TDCL is the new Ranger of old. I have both - the Ranger is my primary compass and the 15TDCL is my backup ––- but I could easily switch between the two and not notice any issues in lack of quality. Both are very good! |
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Im really interested in the mirror necessity.
One website I came across states not to get one with a mirror. "The heavy Silva Ranger compass, with bezel enclosed by a plastic cover and glass sighting mirror, is not the clear choice today. Backcountry users should not depend on a sighting compass, which is virtually unusable in the dark and in high winds, rain or driving snow. Learn to take accurate compass bearings from your waist. This enables you to look straight down on the needle to the "shed". This eliminates parallax." |
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Im really interested in the mirror necessity. One website I came across states not to get one with a mirror. "The heavy Silva Ranger compass, with bezel enclosed by a plastic cover and glass sighting mirror, is not the clear choice today. Backcountry users should not depend on a sighting compass, which is virtually unusable in the dark and in high winds, rain or driving snow. Learn to take accurate compass bearings from your waist. This enables you to look straight down on the needle to the "shed". This eliminates parallax." You can use a compass with a mirror that way, but not vice versa. 
I believe in lightweight backpacking gear, but I more than happily carry my "heavy" Ranger and my old Thommen mechanical altimeter. 
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I looked into these and it appears the quality is not what it used to be. Looks like the Brunton 15TDCL is the new Ranger of old. Agreed, this is what I would go with today. I used The Silva Ranger for years as part of my job, in back country hard duty, day in and day out and it met my needs well. Today I would replace it with the Brunton. |
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+1 on the USGI Cammenga.
Read this review for a good comparison of features and use from a previous baseplate compass user. Link also available from the Cammenga website. Cammenga Review |
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Im really interested in the mirror necessity. One website I came across states not to get one with a mirror. "The heavy Silva Ranger compass, with bezel enclosed by a plastic cover and glass sighting mirror, is not the clear choice today. Backcountry users should not depend on a sighting compass, which is virtually unusable in the dark and in high winds, rain or driving snow. Learn to take accurate compass bearings from your waist. This enables you to look straight down on the needle to the "shed". This eliminates parallax." The mirror is used to see the compass dial while siting through the buckhorn type site. The above quote is wrong, you can use the mirror in the wind, rain, and snow no problem. Most good compasses have illuminated ends on the needles so you can see them in the dark. The best way to use a compass is to attach the string to your shirt pocket or around your neck. Grab the compass with your right hand and extend it out until the string is tight. Adjust the mirror so you can see down the site and see the dial. Make sure the compass needle is free floating. Line up the dial and take a site on an object to walk to. With a little practice and a broke in compass one can open the cover, adjust the cover, and turn the dial all with the same hand. Ya sure you can take a reading from your waist but there is some accuracy loss. Remember that metal can mess with a compass so keep it away from rings, metal buckles and pack frames. |
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If I could only have one, it would definitely be a mirror baseplate style from the Ranger lineage. I love my Suunto MC-2G.
That quote about snow, wind, etc. is stupid. Clearly they're working from some textbook theory. Sure, you should practice with the "square your body up and look down" method, but the mirror sighting method is easy, accurate, and you get a mirror! (use it for emergency signaling, checking out the gash you just got on your face, contact lens management, etc). Plus I'd much rather have a sighting compass for resectioning (triangulating my position via multiple compass bearings). Unless you have an extremely detailed (small scale) map, you need somewhat precise bearings for resectioning. Cammengas are cool and I have one but as has been said, you need a protractor overlay tool to use it with a map. Baseplate compasses eliminate the need for a separate trinket. ETA: "The heavy Silva Ranger..." Um, you don't KNOW heavy until you hold a Cammenga  . The marginal weight increase from a baseplate to a mirror-sighting model is well worth the increased functionality.
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If I could only have one, it would definitely be a mirror baseplate style from the Ranger lineage. I love my Suunto MC-2G. That quote about snow, wind, etc. is stupid. Clearly they're working from some textbook theory. Sure, you should practice with the "square your body up and look down" method, but the mirror sighting method is easy, accurate, and you get a mirror! (use it for emergency signaling, checking out the gash you just got on your face, contact lens management, etc). Plus I'd much rather have a sighting compass for resectioning (triangulating my position via multiple compass bearings). Unless you have an extremely detailed (small scale) map, you need somewhat precise bearings for resectioning. Cammengas are cool and I have one but as has been said, you need a protractor overlay tool to use it with a map. Baseplate compasses eliminate the need for a separate trinket. ETA: "The heavy Silva Ranger..." Um, you don't KNOW heavy until you hold a Cammenga . The marginal weight increase from a baseplate to a mirror-sighting model is well worth the increased functionality.i have the usgi cammenga and several sunuto global mirror compass. i by far prefer the usgi cammenga. i have seen many out of alignment mirrors on friends compasses over he years. also while the sunuto has a few map scales on the base plate. i invariably find myself with a map not matched to the baseplate scales. i gave up and got the plotter system. now i can take the scales that match my map. |
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Im really interested in the mirror necessity. One website I came across states not to get one with a mirror. "The heavy Silva Ranger compass, with bezel enclosed by a plastic cover and glass sighting mirror, is not the clear choice today. Backcountry users should not depend on a sighting compass, which is virtually unusable in the dark and in high winds, rain or driving snow. Learn to take accurate compass bearings from your waist. This enables you to look straight down on the needle to the "shed". This eliminates parallax." That quote is wrong on so many levels, there is nothing wrong with the Silva Ranger (or at least the ones around 15 years ago). When he complains about the weight, you would think he has to carry a brick. Sighting the compass is a hell of a lot more accurate than placing it at your waist and taking a reading. The inaccuracy of placing the compass on your waist and taking a reading is more than any parallax that would be experienced with the mirror. If you are going several clicks, you are more likely to be way off reading from the waist. As far as adverse weather, I can't count the number of times during land navigation that we were in rain, sleet, snow, thunderstorms, high winds, sand, much less at night (which as a Cav Scout was during a majority of our operations) ours worked fine. A good compass will have Tritium or some other luminous coating on them that you can charge with a flashlight and they can be seen at night for a while. What website was this quote at? |
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At one time, the USGI compass had a grid scale on the side that matched DOD maps and not the common US geological survey maps. Seems like it was 1/250000 for one and 1/240000 for the other. That would be the only drawback of that particular unit although I have met few people that us MGRS or UTM ticks. I have had a non-tritium GI type for 20 years and it has served me well. I suppose the H3 would be depleted by now if I had bought that model. My compass training came from a skills sharing session with the upstate home guard and my rescue unit. We showed them how to tie people to the old Army stretcher along with some rope rescue and knots. Then, all of us got a compass course taught by a Marine Corp sergeant. Very Cool..
RS |
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Im really interested in the mirror necessity. One website I came across states not to get one with a mirror. "The heavy Silva Ranger compass, with bezel enclosed by a plastic cover and glass sighting mirror, is not the clear choice today. Backcountry users should not depend on a sighting compass, which is virtually unusable in the dark and in high winds, rain or driving snow. Learn to take accurate compass bearings from your waist. This enables you to look straight down on the needle to the "shed". This eliminates parallax." That quote is wrong on so many levels, there is nothing wrong with the Silva Ranger (or at least the ones around 15 years ago). When he complains about the weight, you would think he has to carry a brick. Sighting the compass is a hell of a lot more accurate than placing it at your waist and taking a reading. The inaccuracy of placing the compass on your waist and taking a reading is more than any parallax that would be experienced with the mirror. If you are going several clicks, you are more likely to be way off reading from the waist. As far as adverse weather, I can't count the number of times during land navigation that we were in rain, sleet, snow, thunderstorms, high winds, sand, much less at night (which as a Cav Scout was during a majority of our operations) ours worked fine. A good compass will have Tritium or some other luminous coating on them that you can charge with a flashlight and they can be seen at night for a while. What website was this quote at? http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/FAQ_Best_Compass.htm |
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Thanks, I want to look at that tomorrow.
One more thought before I'm off to bed. If it's too dark to read your compass, how in the hell do you read your map? That whole "virtually unusable at night" comment has me laughing. The military has been doing it for years. |
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snip...i have seen many out of alignment mirrors on friends compasses over he years. Interesting –– hadn't heard of that. Good to know. I'm not sure that mirror "alignment" is all that critical, since all it's used for is viewing the dial so you can box the needle with the compass at eye level. Perhaps a severely whacked mirror would pose a parallax problem. Otherwise, the concerns of parallax error (with an in-tact mirror) are very minimal. I've done side-by-side tests by taking bearings with the ranger-type mirror, the cammenga and a nautical sighting compass (with 1-degree precision) and gotten pretty much the same result each time. |
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Nothing wrong with a baseplate compass. The best feature in my mind is not having another piece (protractor).
However, if I were to land nav right now, it would be with a USGI Cammenga and appropriate scaled protractor. I have had to do it that way for long enough that it is easier/faster than using a baseplate. Whatever you get, practice and determine your pace count over different types of terrain while you are at it. Land nav/orienteering is a fine skill that one can only truly master through experience. |
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heavy bulky and more expensive for a quality USGI. Also because I read reviews saying they are more difficult to use than the "regular" type. I am not going to tell you what you should buy, but I will say get out with some friends who have a few different types and play with their compasses and see what you like. Learn how to use one and you won't be asking anyone which compass to buy you will already know what you like and need in a compass. You can read reviews and ask people to get an idea, but really, you need to find out for yourself what you like best. Also you need to figure out when you are really going to be using it. I mean what type of situation. Those plastic base compasses work great for the granola crunching tree huggers who walk the trails wearing clothes so colorful it looks like Walt Disney puked on them, but if you are looking at a SHTF event, the last thing you want is to be running, jumping, crawling, swimming, and falling down with a plastic base compass. This is just me and my opinion, and it isn't worth a squirt of piss. The military figured out pretty quick that you need to shoot, move and communicate. So, you need to know where you are going and how to get there. You can't do that with something that is broken, so make sure whatever you buy, it can stand up to what you plan on using it for. Another thing, military compasses are VERY easy to use. Maybe the article you read was talking about how to set it up and use it for night land nav? It can be confusing to use at first, but once you learn how to set it up and use it, it is like riding a bike. Plus everything can be set in complete darkness by feel and clicks so no light is needed. Then again how many will do night land nav unless it's a SHTF event? At that point it would be better to have a USGI compass, but again, that's my opinion. You do need a protractor with the USGI compass, but they are very handy to have with you no matter what compass you are using. You poke a small hole in the center and tie a piece of string like from inside some 550. Place the center on your pos making sure it's lined up with your grid lines, and pull the string tight to the location you want to go and where that string crosses on the protractor, that's your grid azimuth. Convert to magnetic and move out. My point is, you really should have a protractor as well as a compass, so why not buy a good strong compass from the start and not worry about being able to see through the base to read a map. One last thing, don't worry about parallax error. Most people can not even shoot accurately enough with a target rifle to where parallax is a factor in their shot. I promise you, you will NEVER be able to walk an azimuth so accurately that parallax will ever become a factor in your navigation. Then again, what the hell do I know.
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Im really interested in the mirror necessity. One website I came across states not to get one with a mirror. "The heavy Silva Ranger compass, with bezel enclosed by a plastic cover and glass sighting mirror, is not the clear choice today. Backcountry users should not depend on a sighting compass, which is virtually unusable in the dark and in high winds, rain or driving snow. Learn to take accurate compass bearings from your waist. This enables you to look straight down on the needle to the "shed". This eliminates parallax." Now this is just the dumbest thing I've read today. Just becasue the compass HAS a mirror doesn't mean you have to USE the mirror. It folds, natch. |
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I have a Suunto MC 2G, and I like it, but it is not perfect. It is somewhat tedious to take a bearing on a distant object. Here is the procedure: with the lanyard around your neck, you hold the compass with one hand between your eye and the object you are sighting on. With the other hand, you turn the bezel until the needle aligns with the bezel. You do all this while 1. adjusting the mirror angle so that you see the the needle and bezel are correctly aligned, 2. aligning the line in the mirror and the pivot point of the needle, and 3. aligning the line in the mirror and the sighted object.
With the USGI, you just hold the compass up to your eye, sight on the object, and read the number. There is a compass that is sort of a hybrid, the Brunton 54LU that you might want to consider. Folks that use them love them. |
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+1 on the USGI Cammenga. Read this review for a good comparison of features and use from a previous baseplate compass user. Link also available from the Cammenga website. Cammenga Review I read this part of that review (harshing on the Ranger-type of comapss) with much glee... Let’s review how you use a protractor type compass to find East. With a compass, like my Sherpa,
you set the bezel to zero (N) under the indicator mark and turn around until the needle is pointing to magnetic north. Now turn your body clockwise 90 degrees – you are facing East, but the compass needle is pointing West. Now you have to rotate the bezel anti-clockwise and align the capsule North-South arrow with the needle. The indicator mark and Direction of Travel arrow on the base plate will now be pointing 090º. Umm....No. You turn the dial until E is at the index mark, then turn your whole body until the capsule north arrow lines up with the compass needle. |
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snip...i have seen many out of alignment mirrors on friends compasses over he years. Interesting –– hadn't heard of that. Good to know. I'm not sure that mirror "alignment" is all that critical, since all it's used for is viewing the dial so you can box the needle with the compass at eye level. Perhaps a severely whacked mirror would pose a parallax problem. Otherwise, the concerns of parallax error (with an in-tact mirror) are very minimal. I've done side-by-side tests by taking bearings with the ranger-type mirror, the cammenga and a nautical sighting compass (with 1-degree precision) and gotten pretty much the same result each time. You can easily determine if your mirror's out of alignment; there's three index marks above the capsule that the scribed line on the mirror needs to match to.Just make sure the scribed line lines up and you're GTG. Seriously, I've got 20 years of daily experience cruising timber with the Type 15, and it's the shiznit. |
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The Boy Scouts merit badge manuals and, IIRC, its called the fieldcraft book (not the Boy Scout handbook) are usually good reference materials.
They tend to be easy to follow. BSA Manual I also found this with a quick search. I didn't look through all of it, what I looked at was good. It contains brief explanations of intersection, resection, terrain features, dead reckoning at night,etc. http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/land_navigation_map_reading/index.shtml There is another sight I am trying to look at before I post it here. It appears to be copied directly from the Army training materials (forget the FM#). There is alot of good information to help you out. Try to stick to a "known source" like Boy Scouts or miltary publications. They have been doing it for years. Try to avoid an unknown sight that you Google, sometimes you get bad information without realizing it. ETA: Found it.FM3-25.26 Land Navigation If you don,t have them already, this should be good info to learn from. |
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heavy bulky and more expensive for a quality USGI. Also because I read reviews saying they are more difficult to use than the "regular" type. I am not going to tell you what you should buy, but I will say get out with some friends who have a few different types and play with their compasses and see what you like. Learn how to use one and you won't be asking anyone which compass to buy you will already know what you like and need in a compass. You can read reviews and ask people to get an idea, but really, you need to find out for yourself what you like best. Also you need to figure out when you are really going to be using it. I mean what type of situation. Those plastic base compasses work great for the granola crunching tree huggers who walk the trails wearing clothes so colorful it looks like Walt Disney puked on them, but if you are looking at a SHTF event, the last thing you want is to be running, jumping, crawling, swimming, and falling down with a plastic base compass. This is just me and my opinion, and it isn't worth a squirt of piss. The military figured out pretty quick that you need to shoot, move and communicate. So, you need to know where you are going and how to get there. You can't do that with something that is broken, so make sure whatever you buy, it can stand up to what you plan on using it for. Another thing, military compasses are VERY easy to use. Maybe the article you read was talking about how to set it up and use it for night land nav? It can be confusing to use at first, but once you learn how to set it up and use it, it is like riding a bike. Plus everything can be set in complete darkness by feel and clicks so no light is needed. Then again how many will do night land nav unless it's a SHTF event? At that point it would be better to have a USGI compass, but again, that's my opinion. You do need a protractor with the USGI compass, but they are very handy to have with you no matter what compass you are using. You poke a small hole in the center and tie a piece of string like from inside some 550. Place the center on your pos making sure it's lined up with your grid lines, and pull the string tight to the location you want to go and where that string crosses on the protractor, that's your grid azimuth. Convert to magnetic and move out. My point is, you really should have a protractor as well as a compass, so why not buy a good strong compass from the start and not worry about being able to see through the base to read a map. One last thing, don't worry about parallax error. Most people can not even shoot accurately enough with a target rifle to where parallax is a factor in their shot. I promise you, you will NEVER be able to walk an azimuth so accurately that parallax will ever become a factor in your navigation. Then again, what the hell do I know.
+1 I was taught on a Cammenga and it served me wellas it does just about all of our country's S.F units in training or in the field. I would guess to say they have been in our inventory in some form or another for a very long time. I have never used a Ranger but the plastic piece of shit I went out with last time became a gift for my nephew when I got back. It may come down to what you like but you gotta give it up to the rugged durability of the USGI compass. But they aint cheap. ps where is the cheapest place for a tritium Cammenga?? |
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ps where is the cheapest place for a tritium Cammenga??
Straight from Cammenga (free shipping), or off of Ebay. You can probably find lower prices, but the catch is how much life is left in the tritium? From Cammenga http://www.cammenga.com/cammenga-faq.php: How can I determine when my Lensatic Compass was manufactured?
The manufactured date can be found on the inside of the compass cover next to the sight wire. In most cases it will be displayed as a series of 3 pairs of numbers: ## ## ## This format stands for the year, month, and lot number. For example: If the compass was made in January of 2004 the date would be displayed 04 01 77. The lot number 77 is a generic number for compasses made outside of a government contract. On some compasses, the date would be displayed as the year followed by the Julian date. The Julian date is simply the number of days that has passed in a given year 1-365. This would be displayed as a single number followed by three numbers: # ### For example: If a compass was made on the first of January, 1994 the date would be displayed as 4 001. If a compass was made on the last day of December, 1993 the date would be displayed as 3 365 |
| EITHER the Silva Ranger (or its equivalent) OR a USGI lensatic compass will serve any user (who bothers to learn how to use it) very well. I'll accept the Timber Cruiser's endorsement of one and the SF Soldier's endorsement of the other equally. Both will do the job. I keep using my ranger because I see no need to replace it. |
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Well thank you very much for that. I never thought ot think that the places selling it cheaper would be doing so with older tritium. You could always buy a cheap knockoff and see if you like it. Seems like you get set in your ways once you learn how to use either style.
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The Essential Wilderness Navigator Buy the above book. I bought it about a decade ago and was really impressed with the results. I learned for the first time how to use a compass in conjunction with a map and it all suddenly made sense! In any case, a mirror is a nice addition to your map compass for sighting, signaling, smearing your face with war paint, etc. |
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heavy bulky and more expensive for a quality USGI. Also because I read reviews saying they are more difficult to use than the "regular" type. not more difficult –– just different. once you use a camminga (us gi compass) and plotter you will never use a base plate compass again. its just too easy and so accurate. heavier perhaps-but indestructible. This. Tom |
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I'm a life long fan of the Ranger also, it is always with me (ex-forester) and it is my go to compass. I agree that the older ones are better than the newer ones, and I'm impressed the the Burton version.
I do like the USGI lensatic compass's but what I don't like is that they don't show 1 degree increments. Most people think and work in degree's not mils. Now, since mils are smaller than degrees, it can be more accurate over all. |
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snip...i have seen many out of alignment mirrors on friends compasses over he years. Interesting –– hadn't heard of that. Good to know. I'm not sure that mirror "alignment" is all that critical, since all it's used for is viewing the dial so you can box the needle with the compass at eye level. Perhaps a severely whacked mirror would pose a parallax problem. Otherwise, the concerns of parallax error (with an in-tact mirror) are very minimal. I've done side-by-side tests by taking bearings with the ranger-type mirror, the cammenga and a nautical sighting compass (with 1-degree precision) and gotten pretty much the same result each time. You can easily determine if your mirror's out of alignment; there's three index marks above the capsule that the scribed line on the mirror needs to match to.Just make sure the scribed line lines up and you're GTG. Seriously, I've got 20 years of daily experience cruising timber with the Type 15, and it's the shiznit. perhaps –– but with the usgi you do not have to determine if you are out of alignment. |
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Another good book, FWIW: Be Expert with Map and Compass: The Complete Orienteering Handbook (originally published in 1955 and frequently updated)
I read it so long ago (late 1970s or early 1980s––before I joined the Army) that I don't remember what it says, but it gave me a good foundation to build on. |