Posted: 11/25/2007 5:12:48 PM EDT
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Ok, maybe this thing is not the ultimate Long term TEOTWAWKI type tool, but it has some cool benifits over the typical tool of the same type. It's called the JacPac. It uses paintball CO2 cylenders to operate air tools. ANY AIR TOOLS. A thing i saw on DIY network said that a 16oz tank will drive 700 nails. If you need to nail boards up in a hurry without power this would be just the thing. What i am looking at it for is cost. The basic setup shown in the above link is 90 bucks, and i already have CO2 tanks from paintball comin out my ears. I have been kickin around buying some air tools, piecemeal, but the big money of a GOOD air compressor has been keeping me from getting started while i save. So as i see it Pros: No electricity needed Faster than by hand no matter what yer doin, just ask John Henry CO2 tank refills are cheap, as are the tanks (and in a SHTF vein, they are supposed to last like 5 years before it needs hydrotested again to be sure the bottle is safe.) Light weight, and portable Cons: CO2 gone = party's over THere's likely more. I'll tell ya when i get mine. (Come on Santa Claus!) So what do you guys think? jim |
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never thought about it. i don't have any cylinders. i wonder if there would be an issue with the cold CO2 and the washers and gaskets in the air tools? if that works there would be no reason you could not use welding shield gas like Argon... just no oxygen ok? it would be bad. i think i would rather rely on a good hammer. or a generator and 18 volt tools. |
based on related discussions in the off-road forums that i frequent, this is a problem. the tool internals will get real cold, real fast, and any humidity in the supply air will condense and freeze in place. moreover, the outside of the tool will get cold as well. ar-jedi |
I'd be leary of using CO2 in an air tool, for the reasons hk940 and ar-jedi pointed out. There is an alternative though. HP air cylinders for paintball have the same threading as the CO2 tanks, so one of those could be used instead. The only problem is you'd get less use out of a HP air cylinder than a CO2 tank of the same size before you'd need to recharge (due to the fact that in a CO2 tank, a bulk of the CO2 is stored in liquid form and expands when it converts to a gas). |
| If you don't have time to use a hammer, then you are screwed. Hammers do not require electricity or air, are simple, hard to break, and the only replaceable part is the handle, and you can get that from the woods. I grew up learning to frame before Pneumatics really became commonplace. It just seems like having a good framing hammer and a bag of 16 penny sinkers around seems like the simplest plan. |
I see it as a good idea for a situation that can use it more efficiently than the alternative tool. Bugging out, I'd use a rock for a hammer. If I had an ATV or motorcycle, one of the tire inflation kits are lighter and smaller. If you can 'afford' the weight budget of the CO2 cylinder/s and have a need to operate air tools for just a limited time and it's important to get the job done fast, then the product makes a lot of sense. Frankly, I carry 1 or 2 of the cylinders on the link with a home-made adapter in the stealth trailer. They have come in handy to reinflate tires a few times and are lighter to carry than a small compressor. As far as freezing the tool, the cooling occurs at the gas/liquid change of state boundary. If the cylinder is upright it will occur in the cylinder, but the gas will be cool. Putting the cylinder in water will reduce any problem, but I think something like a impact wrench would exhaust the cylinder before it wrench got too cold to operate. |
Compressed CO2 is ok to use for air tools. BUT I prefer compressed air or Nitrogen gas. When i was a firefighter we had an adaptor to use our 2200psi breathing air bottles on our air tools. It was a basic welders regulator with an air chock on it. Breathing air is filtered, compressed normal air. Co2 will requre a CGA-320 valve fitting ande Nitrogen will require a CGA-580 valve fitting on the regulator. ---but they do make an adaptor so you can use the same regulator on both bottle types. If you just use nitrogen from you welding supply store it is easy. just set your regulator anywhere from 90-115 psi on the low pressure side and tighten the locknut. attach an airchock to attach air hose. Nitrogen is somewhere between 70% and 80% of normal outside air and it is inert. We breate it everyday. I have a custom engine driven air compressor on my jeep. (Air conditioning pump with a pressure switch and tank). though many of my friends carry 2200 or 4500 psi tanks of either CO2 or air with regulators to reinflate tires or use tools. That being said!!!! Dont but that fluffy kit that you found. just go the the welder supply and get a bottle of air or nitrogen and a regulator...then get an air chock from the depot. DONE (you can get any size bottle you want) |
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If you really want some cool SHTF tool!!! Go to ebay and type in SCBA. You will find new and used Self-Contained-Breathing-Apparatus equipment. Now you can use these fiberglass wrapped cylinders for air tools. But EVEN BETTER. Buy a few air packs and extra bottles. Have them serviced and filled by a local Fire Supply place with breathing air. -Air packs can be used against Gas or chem attacks, tear gas, FIRE, and can even be used to breathe underwater at very shallow depths just like its cousin the "SCUBA" tank. The spare tanks can be hooked to a regulator to accomidate air tools... ...ALSO you can hook them up to rescue air bags! which are heavy duty air bags that when inflated can lift a truck off of a victim... There are 4 main types... MSA (Mine Safety Apparatus) 4.5 (4500psi) newer model MSA (Mine Safety Apparatus) 2.2 (2200psi) older model SCOTT Airpack 4.5 (4500psi) SCOTT Airpack 2.2 (2200psi) older model The most widely used is the SCOTT 4500 followed by the MSA 4500 It is just a kewl idea if you want some real SHTF gear... |
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If you are doing the Ebay route for tanks, be sure to check out the hydro test dates on the tanks. Steel and aluminum tanks over 2" in diameter and all fiberglass wrapped tanks have to be tested every 3-5 years. The fiberglass tanks have a 15 year life too. After 15 years, they are to be disposed of. We used to get a ton of out of date tanks at our paintball shop for filling. People would buy cheap tanks off of ebay and then bring them in for filling, not knowing of hydrotesting. Brad |
The same problem plauged the paintball crowd. The solution is whats called an "anti siphon" tank valve. I prevents the liquid Co2 from getting in the inards of the toll/marker. May work for this aswell. |
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Here is the email i sent: I just recently saw a program on DIY network called Cool Tols that showcased your JacPac. It is a great innovation, but I have a question regarding the durability of the seals in tools used with this system. I am an avid paintballer, and i know of some of the peculiarities of working with CO2. Are the seals and tools used effected by the moisture that collects during prolonged strings of nailings? Also, are there problems with the extreme cold temps that the CO2 runs with? How about cold weather? I realise the hose acts as a sort of a expansion chamber/ place for the liquid to gasify, but does any liquid CO2 get to the tool at all? I ask because i know CO2 to be mildly acidic, and am concerned in it's use in expensive tools. And their less than stellar reply: Good day Mr. Nexquietus Thank you for your interest in the portable CO2 power system, JacPac. The regulator converts the liquid CO2 into gas. There is not liquid CO2 running through the tools. The O-ring, located at the top of the cylinder, on the brass fitting, might require to be changed, as it can crack if exposed to the CO2, we recommend you lubricate the o-ring regularly to avoid this issue. Extra O-rings are provided in the JacPac kits and are readily available at any location providing the cylinders. When using a bigger tool, for example a roofing gun, we recommend the use of the 20 oz cylinder. If you should have other questions or comments, please contact us again. Regards I was not completely satisfied with this reply, feeling like it came from a generic customer service person, though in this day and age, i am not sure what i expected. Questions out of the realm of the typical FAQ will only be answered by folks from the smaller, more dedicated Stores, like most of the ones reccomended here. That being said, i still hope santa has one in my stocking.  jim |
I was looking over the JacPac design with a friend who i paintball with. We noticed that the tanks are held in the vertical on your hip so, theoretically, the gas that boils off will be at the top of the tank in normal use. There will be no problem sucking liquid into the tool like there is in paintball guns. Strangely it got us to thinking of using remotes, and mounting our tanks vertically in harnesses to resolve some if this issue for paintball. I'm still kinda pinched at the reply from customer service. It addressed less than half of my questions. If answered completely, it would have shed more light on this stuff. jim |