I've got rifles with red dots, magnified optics, and iron sights only.  

I grew up with boomers telling me never to trust an optic, and some how that's always in the back of my mind.  

I'm stuck if I had to grab just one.  My 16" is a great jack of all trades with the LPVO, but I can't use it passively with NV.  My 11.5" is great with NV, but kind of gives up some advantages in the day.

No bOoMeRs I know had ever said those things to me and has zero place in here to even mention as this isn't GD, but whatever.

I recently had to leave my home because of a threat of a forest fire (Crooks Fire). I guess you could say what I decided to grab while evacuating was to me my one true SHTF rifle. I decided that I wanted an ACOG and a red dot and it's got both. So there's my updated answer.

I hope you get to go back soon to a completely untouched home, sir, good luck.

Anyone showing up asking for a handout might get the T/C Renegade front stuffer in .54...if they can figure out how to load and cap it.

Thanks. If you're following the thread in hometown, there hopefully should be a reprieve for some of us being affected by sometime tomorrow.

As for SHTF, I've got some thoughts on the general idea of what to take when bugging out. I had a plan already and having things prearranged, packed, and ready to grab and go prior to had paid off big time. But for the point of this thread, I'd say a master of none jack of all trades rifle should be what's being grabbed. But make sure it's easily supported such as batteries, magazine, and ammo commonality.

I think that I'm going to swap to a 14.5 P&W CHF CL something in mid gas over the 16 mid gas Criterion CL. But this is just me talking trying to be optimistic right now about being able to go back home.

It wasn't thrown out as a negative. I was taught to shoot by baby boomers, my father included.  A lot of those guys were Vietnam Vets. Most didn't think optics were fit for a "combat rifle".

This is a solid answer.  Go to a competition and figure out what works for you.  Competitions are priceless for sorting out your equipment.  

Years ago I ran a .22 AR-15 competition with iron sights... and it worked for me... but I was the only guy there running irons and while I won my division(being the only one LOL) and got some good trigger time with irons... I realized that the world has decidedly moved on from using iron sights as primary.  Having done shooting at night its easy to see how a dot or illuminated Reticle is far superior to irons ... I know our forefathers wished they had access to the optics we have today.

Handing out rifles does have issues.  Even if you hand a rifle out early... too many people are too lazy/boring to even take the rifle to the range to zero it, much less do serious training.

Shooting is fun.  People need to take time out to put some trigger time in.

Currently I like to make sure that those with the equipment have training and can pass at least a basic qualification like the Army ALT-C or FBI Carbine Qual.  I prefer CSAT Standards or Appleseed AQT (qualification shot with a service caliber rifle)

Failing that, even backyard/garage Airsoft training beats no training.

I'd be concerned more of lack of training.  Every rifle one has should already be zeroed, so I see that point as moot.

Also, are you willing to not get it back?  Do you trust whom you give it too (lack of training, they are really on the good side etc)?

Hand outs are reserved for trusted people that show up in need.  Not something you give out to the neighborhood

Same. If I have guests over and some crazy stuff happens, they're being handed what isn't already claimed by myself. I've even got an A1 clone for an old friend that modern stuff would really be wasted on anyways

Same here

We are on 40 acres and can’t defend it alone

Some family is expected to come and will be given what’s needed.

Fire superiority with semiautomatic rifles? Interesting idea canoeguy. Perhaps you plan for LEO or military battlefield pickups. I have a 300 BO but only use supers. The subsonics are nice and quiet when suppressed, but less than 400 ft-lbs muzzle. The 11.5 inch Grendel builds without a suppressor will make your ears ring in only a couple of shots. You'll never hear the Winchester owners approach.

All of us are going to die of radiation sickness anyway if Vlad causes the collapse of civilization. Enjoy your guns while you can.

I have an 11.5" SBR with can, 1-4x LVPO, offset RDS, and DBAL D2. This would be my first rifle to grab, and it can do whatever I need, day or night, out to several hundred yards. I've run it in different courses, on duty, and competition. The setup works well for my locale and intended mission. I'd like to get a 1-6x or 1-8x,  but haven't prioritized the funds. Food and solar have been the priority lately.

I have a spare rifle or two, but I am not planning to hand anything out unless it's to a police/military/trusted buddy.

Fire superiority is simply an imbalance between two opposing forces. An AR is superior firepower to a lever gun, all else being equal. If both users are moderately capable, the AR adds the advantage; rounds in the gun, recoil control, reload speed, etc. I wouldn't assume the AR guy is a moron and I am better. You may be very confident in your lever gun skills, and that's good. I'm very confident in my AR skills, and I'd prefer to be up against a walnut Winchester than another AR. Under-estimate your friends, over-estimate your enemies, and all that. YMMV.

Here we go again

This isn't a this versus that thread. This is a what you would use in your area, your conditions, etc.

Yet you made it one. That's the disconnect.

I don't know you from me as well as those that prefer other things that's not an AR15

I can't fault their decision as it's not up to me. I answer based on the OP and don't opine on what you turn your nose on. Why? Because we don't know why they chose it over our precious firepowah. However I do know that where I live, anyone using a brush gun cartridge will be more effective based on the amounts of brush in my location that has easily deflected well placed shot's at coyotes that were caught downwind and off guard. My friend using a lever gun in a caliber most here get deranged with, never had that problem.

My thing is this: despite knowing that I'd get better performance in brush, I'm sticking to the AR15 as it's all I know and would be a fish out of water with anything else. Some people that are outlier's feel the same with what a lot here on this board want to scoff at, yet I don't blame those choosing anything different than muh precious AR15 because that lever or bolt is probably the same to them as your AR15 is to you or me.

Anyway, this thread isn't about this versus that or critiquing others based on the answers they give to the OP. I really wish we'd not be divisive and accept each other's answers with respect. This thread would go a lot further by not concentrating on the answers that we don't like.

ArizonaRifleman,

I was continuing the frozenny, Canoeguy, and radioshooter conversation. I am not sure what was divisive, or why it is causing you stress. We are all discussing what rifle setup we would grab first for SHTF, and some people are discussing why they would grab a particular setup.

My opinion is that an AR is superior firepower over a lever gun when two-legged critters are a variable in the equation. That's all I commented on. If someone doesn't see it the same, that is their decision. People are free to choose what they want. It doesn't bother me at all.

Best of luck with your house/fire situation, and have a good one.

Bro, you're not the gate keeper of discussions.  These threads are all about people's opinions, so that's what's going to be posted.

I'm feeling some of your projecting here a bit.

You wouldn't take the other fellow's opinion on what he thinks is right for him, but kept trying to force him to accept your own opinion of what he should have. Which is what is going on in here but without the excitement of the other thread.

Remember, we are not a tribe to expect others to tow the lines with. We shouldn't be concerned about it and let others participate instead of arguing until it's the narrative way or the highway.

So I'll stand by and keep standing by, what's optimal for me isn't optimal for others. We as an AR15 community can't even agree on one caliber, optics, barrel lengths, lights, slings, butt stocks, pistol grips, etc because we're all different. I feel comfortable with what I prefer over what others think that I should be preferring. Now turn that around on what others prefer over the AR15, and I totally understand them because I for one have been in their shoes.

I don't know why this is so hard for a certain percentage to understand and to let people be themselves.

I have a few weapons and have considered whether or not I would use any for handouts and came up with a couple of concerns on the topic.  

The first is whether they could use them safely.   Maybe they have their own weapons and left them behind or maybe they don't own their own weapons.   Now I give them weapons and expect them carry them amongst my and my family safely?   There could be issues there.

The second is how well do they understand the rules of engagement?   Will they follow them?   Are they mentally prepared to defend themselves and the rest of the family?   You could have the person that panics and start shooting at the first person that they see regardless of whether they are a threat.   You could have the person that thinks the fight is lost gives up/flees before it ever really starts.  

Do they know how to use them properly?   Would take care of the weapons?   Or give them away is another lesser concern.

Not near everyone makes choices because it's best for them.  Too many do so because it's all they know.  These discussions help broaden perspective through context and application allowing for others to either root it on what they need or actually pivot to something more optimal.

You don't know that. Plus it's only a discussion if two sides can recognize each other's differences and respect their decisions. I have seen neither, just an echo chamber that some felt the need to protect.

I personally like hearing what others do that is different from me. I'm not wanting to change them, and there's a good percentage here who do want to change minds. I see this nearly everyday here, hardly no one wants to agree to disagree with those that don't like what the other wants them to like. Y'all just want to keep going until finally one stops or a mod intervenes. That is not a healthy discussion. It's no longer a discussion really by that point, just a tit for tat in yet another unwinnable argument.

I digress, this is just as petty as the automatic versus manual. And just as unwinnable as Dodge versus Ford. And let's face it, the only concerns here are for the mantra being spoken in drones to drown out at what is being misperceived as dissent.

Learn to accept each other's difference opinion and agree to just disagree. Just like how I disagreed with your entire post. The AR15 for all the things should be reserved for the newcomers asking these very questions. That's your moment. This thread however, just isn't.

Your response is soaked in irony.

Looking forward to your future erudition in these thread types.

Cool story bro. I too look forward to your next extrapolation of why my way or the highway is more useful than agreeing to disagree.

trying to keep thread on topic

I just reconfigured my main rifle the had a LPVO to  a 2.5-10 vortex PTS. Will add a RMR to it for NODS use. I never took the LPVO off of the 6X so I figured why not make it more  powerful

My main rifle still has a 4x acog. It's just been working well

I did learn that for 5.56 I have just ball ammo so My Spr will be minute of man even with my new 2.5-10X but I can ID and scan better

7.62 nato I have tons of M118LR that I can shoot well. I don't shoot often though
I did rescan my area and realistically my max range would be about 500Yds in the wide open areas.
Most everything else would be around 100Yds

I think I'm getting another thermal though


My now used  60% of the time, every time
my 10/22 with thermal

Attached File

Healthy debate involves sharing opinions, and discussing those opinions.  I might say your opinion is stupid. Maybe you think my opinion is stupid. Maybe we agree, maybe we don't.  Maybe one of us is convinced one way or the other. Either way, telling people they can't have a healthy debate or discussion should be frowned on.

@dayphotog

Like you showed, trying new setups and changing old ones is how you find what works best for you.

What thermal is that, and how well do you like it? I think thermal is on a shortlist of gaps I need to fill. I'm vacillating between hand-held and weapon-mounted.

I'm still waiting for a mount that incorporates a thermal optic at 10 o'clock, LPVO at 12, and a RDS at 2. Best of all worlds, at only 14 lbs! .

@Leemlh

It’s a hogster and I really like it better than my handheld
I did a review of it vs my cheaper flir scout tk handheld. I can’t even imagine how good using the better stuff is.

I want another weapon mountable as a backup and am looking at the hogster stimulus at around $1500. I paid right around  $2k for my hogster

Though a clip on would be great and more versatile.

@dayphotog

I liked the video and the direct comparison of the thermals. The cheap units seem like a deal, but you do get what you pay for. Thanks for sharing.