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Posted: 2/24/2021 12:58:28 PM EDT
Sparkies if you have anything you want to add more suggest just message me.

This is a thread to give basic info, not a 100% comprehensive answer. Yes some people will disagree, and if you do let me know my pm and I will add your info.

Its is not a purse swinging thread.


Generator types and sizing general info

Okay this is general info, arfcom, myself and anyone else whom gave input is not liable. If you do it wrong bad things can happen, houses can burn down. If you dont have the knowledge, consult an electrician. Take this thread as a pointer to get you going to where you need or want to be, and consult an electrician to do whats best for your situation.

First try to stick with known brands. That is easily searchable on the internet, this thread is not about specific generators. See the link at the bottom for the huge budget  generator thread.

If you want specific info on hooking it up feel free to pm me

general types
small inverter- the typical 2k watt inverter, cost $450 to 1200
larger inverter - parallel inverters and 3.5k watt single cost $700 to 2k
small portable - normally gas up to 5k or so watts  $400 to 600
large portable - normally gas 5k to 12k watts and up $500 to 1200
whole house - normally ng or propane, they start out about 7k watts and go as high as you want to pay for.  $7k to 15k ( diesel 20k and up )

Most people would be best to get in the range of the larger inverter, or small portable. Having 2 2k watt ones is a good way to go, you can shut one down to save fuel when not needed. Plus the whole 2 to 1 thing. This will do 90% of what you need to survive a power outage, shorter term. If you only need 120 volts, inverters should do fine for you, if need 240 for say a well go to a portable.

fuel types
Gas, some what limited storage life, and you need many gas cans for larger generators to have enough fuel
propane, can be limited for storage or large tanks. Does not go bad just sitting
Dual fuel generators that can run on both gas and propane. The advantages are you can have both fuel sources around normally. ie gas for your mower and propane for your grill. But again having enough fuel can be an issue, esp for larger ones.
Tri fuel, nice as you have flexibility. Ie run from NG until it fails, then 2 back ups to run on.
NG, pretty reliable, until its not
Diesel expensive to purchase
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 2:30:53 PM EDT
[#1]
what they can run

First the age of the item can play into this, older items are not as efficient, or may have larger start up surges. When it comes to things like ac, a newer unit may have a soft start, then ramp up as needed.

Small inverters can run things like gas furnace, lights, fridge, tvs etc, or a single electric heater. But are limited in total combined load, so minor load management is needed. Ie dont try to run 6 tvs, your fridge and make a cup of coffee. Gasoline usage is from 5 to 11 hours on a gallon, the more load the faster they use gas

Larger inverters. Can run all of the above, with less load management. Plus being able to run say an electric heater while your gas furnace is on, or maybe 2 electric heaters by them selves. They will use about 2 gallons of gas in 5 to 11 hours again based on load.

small portables. Again can run the above, but can also do things like well pumps, maybe a water heater due to the fact that most can put out 120/240. But at the cost of fuel and noise. 5 gallons will typically run them for 10-11 hours under moderate load. Really should have a dedicated transfer system installed, for safety and to allow the generator to do what it is capable of.

Larger portables, Can run pretty much anything except heat pumps, load management is important for fuel use. Some will run smaller heat pumps, but not with the back up heat. Really should have a dedicated transfer system installed, for safety and to allow the generator to do what it is capable of. If you try to run things like a heat pump, or a few heaters expect to use up to 20 gallon of gas in 24 hours.

Whole house generators. A dedicated permanently installed generator, that can be sized large enough to run a house like normal. Heat/ac no matter the type once you get to 20k or larger. The 7k ones are limited to the same type loads as a larger portable. If they are propane they require a dedicated tank, and the large ones can suck some fuel down. Which can be a problem for resupply in bad weather and longer outages. They are convenient due to auto start/stop and living life like normal. If they are NG you are dependent on the NG supply. You can also buy diesel whole house generators, but the cost goes up, significantly.

Now the only thing that always makes sense, is to shut down the generator when you dont need it. Ie while your asleep. You dont need power to your tv, your fridge will be fine over night etc. You can honestly get by with running a generator 8 hours a day. 2 when you wake up, to get showers, cook breakfast, get the fridge cold again, let the house warm up, etc.Then two in the middle of the day for the same as the morning. Then 4 hours at night for dinner, tv time, fridge cold etc. So even if you shut it off for 12 hours a day, you just saved half your fuel.

Again feel free to message if you need to.


https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Harbor-Freight-Inverter-Generators-NOW-OFFICIAL-BUDGET-GENERATOR-THREAD/5-2032324/

For the Most part if you can buy it at home depot, lowes, costco, HF its probably an ok generator. Yes hondas are nice but are they twice as nice for the price.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 2:31:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Transfer and back feeding types

This does not apply to running cords around from an inverter generator obviously, or two installed whole house generators with auto transfer switches.

Okay Striker asked about doing something on transfer panels/switches due to people plugging in to their dryer plug.

Very simple answers here, for manual transfers.

Panel back feed with a suicide cord, aka backfeeding a dryer plug. Its a bad idea. If you dont shut off the main your back feeding the grid, that how you kill a lineman. He stated in his area they wont work on the power until the generators get shut off.

Next is a simple interlock. You basically have a plug that feeds a breaker in your main panel, that has a physical interlock that prevents you from back feeding the grid. If forces you to turn off the main to be able to turn on the generator feed breaker. They work, they are safe, but there are a few problems. One it now tries to power your whole house, so its easy to overload your generator. Two you never know when the power comes back.

The next one is a transfer panel. It also has a physical interlock on two breakers.One breaker is feed from your normal utility panel and the other is the generator plug. You then relocate the things you need to the transfer panel, ie your fridge, your living room plugs, gas furnace etc. Basically the panel houses the main things you want and the things you need. The nice thing about this is you put in the panel what your generator can handle, no load management needed. Two when your utility comes back you suddenly see things like the basement lights start working, a good sign the utility is back.

I prefer the transfer panel, its simple for others to use. Its is safe, with little chance of overloading when done right.

Also with a transfer you can have 2 generators the big noisy 8k for big loads, then unplug it and with the proper cord plug in your 2k inverter for light duty loads most of the time, with a lot less noise and fuel use.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 2:31:22 PM EDT
[#3]
i have suggested to dk that it gets stickied until the current weather and power issues clear up then to move it to the survival forum and be stickied there. If there is another big storm and or power outages it can be brought back to GD.

Link Posted: 2/19/2021 2:31:38 PM EDT
[#4]
last reserved
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 2:33:43 PM EDT
[#5]
@dk-prof
@striker
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 2:38:23 PM EDT
[#6]
Gotta say I was impressed with my neighbors cheap, harbor freight $430 Predator. He was running a ton of stuff on it, while supplying power to his other neighbor. Other neighbor was running their refrigerator, TV, some lights, chargers and some other small stuff on the leftovers.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 2:44:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Listen to this guy!

Were it not for him, my family/home would have froze when my generator plan fell through.

We went 69 hours without power and still don’t have water but thank God for this forum and the OPs help!
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 2:47:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for this, it is much needed.  Checking back for more info.  

I have a small inverter (2k) and a Harbor Freight 800W smoke and noise generator.  I am looking at getting a second inverter, larger dual fuel unit.  This thread is already helping.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 2:50:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Im just trying to find the starting draw for my 3ton heat pump so I can see my minimums if i want to power that.  In my limited research looks like its in the 7-8kw range so id need better than 8k if i wanted that plus other items.

Im not afraid of a freeze.. i want my A/C in the summer LOL.

My alternative is no hvac, just run an evap cooler... 300w.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 2:53:25 PM EDT
[#10]
We don't live in Tx, but we had a whole house generator installed this summer.  Glad we did.  Our choices were Generac and Kohler.  Based on reviews and from talking to the sales people we went with Kohler.  We have a small house and went with a 14Kw model that is hooked to an automatic transfer switch.  I have a ethernet cord attached and once a week it runs an automatic start up test (runs for 20 mins) and I get notified about the test.  We used natural gas for ours.  Had to have a plumber come in and run a gas line from one side of our house across the basement and then bring it out to the generator.  Total cost was $10,600.00.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 3:12:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Of the 3 fuel types mentioned, I will  go ahead and claim that natural gas is the most reliable, safest, and economical.  Perhaps not the most available though.  You either have it or you don't, but if you do then by all means get a tri fuel conversion kit and cover all the bases.  

I have a Nash Fuel tri fuel kit in my Predator 3500.  It's easily the best decision I have made for emergency power.  Natural gas gives me full power despite what some claim about lower output.  It is safer for a few reasons.  No fuel storage, and natgas is lighter than air so it will not pool like gasoline or  propane fumes.  Unlike gasoline, it never ages or requires stabilizers.  Virtually unlimited supply at about half the cost or less of the other two fuels.  Cleaner burning for less blowby oil contamination and exhaust odor.  Think how a gas stove burner smells.  (Or Doesn't Smell)

We had about a 20 hour outage last week and my power was back up via gen. hookup in about 10 minutes.  No shutdown for those 20 hours to do a hot refuel, or switch propane tanks either.  At our local pricing it costs us about $1 an hour for fuel vs. at least double that for propane or gasoline.  This is computed on fuel therms per BTU.   I still have propane available as a backup if natgas fails, but I have never had that happen in my 73 years at any location.  Ever.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 3:35:51 PM EDT
[#12]
How about how to properly and safely connect a generator to a building without a transfer switch.


It may not be the “proper” way, but in a emergency one cannot install a transfer switch.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 3:54:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How about how to properly and safely connect a generator to a building without a transfer switch.


It may not be the “proper” way, but in a emergency one cannot install a transfer switch.
View Quote



There is no proper and safe way to do it with out a transfer switch. I will just leave it at that, as I do touch on the not safe or proper way.

@slanted
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 4:04:42 PM EDT
[#14]
22kw NG gentrac here. Did great for us. Was running for the past 4 days pretty much non stop.

After thinking things over, I really want to get an alternate 220 plug-in on the transfer switch. That way if my NG service ever did fail, I could plug in either the two Honda 2.2k’s or pick up a 7-8k traditional so wouldn’t be totally barren.

Kind of a small chance event, but I was worried about loosing NG this go around and god damnit I need my espresso machine!!!!
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 4:15:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Two things I would like to add:
1. Illumination
2. CO (and smoke) detectors.
3. Keep good logs for generator use and service per mfgr recommendations.
4. Note on battery backups on generators
5. If you have a generator, you should have fire extinguishers.

In addition to generators, think flashlights - lots of em. Bad things happen frequently at night, and if your generator setup is not where it automatically kicks in to a ATS, and you have to manually intervene (fire it up, fuel, connect cabling), it can be a BEAR to do so at nights. I have a couple of head mounted flashlights (one on the outside of my 1st aid kit, one by my bedside, one on my standby generator) along with work gloves because I can't will outages to occur at 2PM in the summer.

Please, please purchase CO detectors and have at least one in the immediate vicinity of your generator if it is in any semi covered area. So for example, if your genny is on your back patio, place a CO detector in the room (typically kitchen or den) that connects to your back deck.

Ok, I can't count for poops. But yeah, get an hour meter for your generator if it does not have one, and keep enough parts (filter, additives, etc) on hand to give you enough run time for 2x your absolute worst case scenario.


4(! ). In your house, it's not a bad idea to have some equipment on a battery backup device. I use a fair amount of APC back up systems at home - all TVs, all computers, all networking equipment, security stuff.
If you have a high end battery back up, you may have to change the sensitivity setting for when you are on generator power, or the damn thing might keep rolling off gen power and onto battery power even when being fed by the generator.

5. Should be very self explanatory.


OP, I owe you a case of beer and a nice bottle of red wine - very timely topic.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 4:21:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Is it possible to convert a gas only inverter (in this case, a Honda EU2200i Bluetooth model) to dual or even tri-fuel?
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 4:23:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is it possible to convert a gas only inverter (in this case, a Honda EU2200i Bluetooth model) to dual or even tri-fuel?
View Quote


yes there are kits made, just need to search them out, and find one with good reviews
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 4:31:58 PM EDT
[#18]
What do you think of these?

I think it’s the best thing since sliced bread.

Link Posted: 2/19/2021 4:54:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What do you think of these?

I think it’s the best thing since sliced bread.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/99571/37D46368-FDBC-4DBE-AC17-2C194FDB2961-1830023.jpg
View Quote



They are fine if your gen only puts out 30 amps at 120 and you dont need 240 volts for anything in you house.

FYI of everyone else what he is showing is an adapter to go from a 3 wire 30 amp 120 volt generator out put to a 4 wire 120/240 cord. There are a few generators that have the 120 30 amp outlets, they are normally on gens setup for campers as the small camper power is normally 120 volt 30 amps. It wont give you 240 volt, but does bridge the 2 120 volt lines so both sides of a 120/240 volt panel get power.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 4:58:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


yes there are kits made, just need to search them out, and find one with good reviews
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is it possible to convert a gas only inverter (in this case, a Honda EU2200i Bluetooth model) to dual or even tri-fuel?


yes there are kits made, just need to search them out, and find one with good reviews


Ditto.

As I mentioned, Nash Fuel works great for my Predator 3500 conversion and they seem to be well known and respected supplier of kits for many gensets.  They direct market theirs on Ebay and are also sold on Amazon.com.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 5:51:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 6:13:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Ok, let me preface this post by saying, I am not a licensed electrician. I haven't played one on TV or stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. That said, I own my own construction business and some of my closest friends are licensed electricians and have assisted me with my setup.

In my case, my main disconnect is approx 30 feet from my breaker panel. The house was built in 1954, with a glass type fuse panel adjacent to the panel in the basement. The house was struck by lightning in 1988, and suffered from a small fire. At that point it underwent a significant remodel where all of the original wiring was removed and replaced with romex as well as the fuse panel being abandoned and a typical breaker panel installed. Due to the distances between the main disconnect and the panel, there is really no way to install a proper disconnect for a generator, so...I have a suicide cord that I backfeed the house with from my portable generator. I would not recommend this setup unless it is the last option you have to temporarily power up your home in an emergency situation. An interlock or transfer panel really is the only safe and approved way to power up your home.

Now, having said all that, my system works fairly well and has provided good service to my family for periods of up to 10 days without grid power. WHEN USING A SUICIDE CORD, IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT YOUR MAIN BREAKER IS IN THE OFF POSITION. You do not want to backfeed the grid for obvious reasons.

1. Equipment
I have 2 portable generators that I keep at my house. One is a 5500 watt, the other is a 7500 watt. Both run on gasoline. I keep 40 gallons of gas out in my shed specifically for the generators. This is treated gas for storage, but I typically rotate it out twice a year by running it through my vehicles. I use separate supplies for the mowers and other yard equipment. Running the generators at about 50-60% load for 6-8 hours a day uses between 3-4 gallons. So 40 gallons gets me about 10 days with no resupply. I chose gas, because everyone needs gas. Its a trade off and perhaps even a risk, but if gas supplies dry up within a reasonable radius of travel, there are probably bigger problems to deal with. Even if gas stations in my immediate area are out or don't have power, it's generally a short drive to an area where I can restock the fuel supply. Also for me storage in the barn is easy and far enough away from the house, to not be of real concern should the gas somehow ignite.

Wire: The biggest plug on my genset is 30 amp, 220 volt. My dryer plug is also 30 amp 220 volt. So I really can't feed more that that into my house. In fact, my understanding is that breakers are rated for 80% capacity before they trip. So in reality, I can expect to get about 24 amps into my house, on both legs of the 220 volt circuit. Use a properly sized wire for the plug you're using. 30 amps equals 10 ga wire. Don't try to do more with a smaller wire, it's just asking for trouble.

2. Operations
Did I mention to TURN OFF THE MAIN BREAKER? When using your generator, you should develop a procedure and practice connecting, running and disconnecting. Do this several times a year in good weather and in crappy weather. You want to be real familiar with how your equipment operates and not learning when it really counts. After I turn the main off, I also turn off all the circuits in my house including the dryer. Once up and running, I'll turn on the dryer and I have several circuits that I will turn on first. The well pump, water heater, furnace, etc. Both my well pump and water heater are 220 volt circuits, so typically I'll have one or the other on, usually the well pump, and when it's time to shower, I'll turn off the well pump and let the water heat up, then turn the water heater off and run the well pump as we're showering. Usually we can all get a decent shower before the hot water runs out, but if not, repeat the cycle and we're good to go. Depending on the size of your generator, you may be able to run a couple 220 circuits.

Another thing to consider when running your generator is heating elements. Forget about running an electric range with a portable genset. In my experience even fixed units will have difficulty running an electric range. If you can, a gas or propane range will use almost no electricity and you'll have the ability to cook rather easily. We have a propane range which only needs power to ignite the burners and run a cooling fan for the oven. Even with no power we can light the cook top burners, but we would be without the oven. Small sacrifice in my opinion. One last thing about heating elements. My wife is famous for tripping the circuit on the generator by using her hair dryer, while I'm trying to make coffee, or run the water heater. No biggie, but it's something to think about. A generator will probably not run everything at once. You tend to forget that your running on portable power and try doing things that normally wouldn't be a problem. Keep a flashlight or two handy so you can reset without tripping over things.

Another area to look at is your furnace. Up here oil heat is king, but gas and propane is gaining. We just switched to a propane fired furnace 2 years ago, never looking back. A great thing about propane is your only relying on the infrastructure in your yard from the tanks to the appliance. We're on a regular schedule for filling the tanks, at full capacity we have around 450 gallons to work with. Propane gets a little funky in extreme cold weather, like -15°, but for the most part works well. In extreme snow conditions, have to keep your regulators clear of the snow. My furnace only draws 8 amps, so the generator runs that fairly easily. One thing particular to most modern furnaces, is that they need a good ground for it to work properly. When backfeeding, your using the house ground so it's less of a concern. If your using a small unit with a cord to your gas furnace, you may have to rig something up to trick the furnace into thinking it has a solid ground.

Practice running your setup. Not only does it exercise your generator, you can identify problems in a less stress environment.

3. Miscellaneous
A poster above mentions fire extinguishers. You should have a few staged around your house anyway, I like keeping one with the generator and locate it near the generator when running. Electricity and gas...you do the math.

Carbon Monoxide.  Keep your generator as far away as reasonable possible for safety. Keep in mind the further away and the longer your cord, there may be some voltage drop. You should have some combo smoke/co detectors in your house regardless. Any appliance or vehicle burning fossil fuels will produce co. Be careful. Get familiar with the effects of co poisoning.  

I also have a small lean-to where I keep my firewood. This is large enough to keep the generator out of the weather and far enough away to cut down on the noise. Both of mine are loud.

Maintenance. I keep enough oil on hand for 3 oil changes on my units. As well as some spare spark plugs and starting fluid for cold weather starts. I'll change the oil right away after a long duration event and at least once a year. Also keep a small kit with a flashlight and a pair of gloves at the generator. Dont really want to be searching for those at 3am. I try to run mine at least once a month for 15-20 minutes. I'll plug a small compressor into it and open the valve so the compressor cycles on and off, putting load on the generator. It's good for keeping the throttle and armature on the power head free and operating properly.

Backup plans: Even having two generators, I still have wood stove, and several ways to cook beside the range. (Grill, camp stove, etc). No plan survives first contact. Have a good backup plan for whatever you do and practice it. Just like running shooting drills, the more proficient you are with your setup, the easier it will be to implement your plan when your family is counting on you.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 6:29:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Just spotted this thread, would be helpful for some opinions on Tier 1, Tier 2, etc, best value for the dollar (recognizing it is subjective).
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 6:30:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Great thread thanks- I’m generator shopping and finding an electrician to discuss putting a transfer switch.

Can someone smarter than me give a rundown on what kw demands are from common appliances? Such as how big of a generator do I need?

All of our main appliances are propane, so I’m assuming not much kw demand, but here’s what I assume most people want to keep running in an outage:

Heat furnace (mine is gas)
ac maybe?
Water heater (mine is gas tankless)
Cooktop
Oven
Microwave
Refrigerators and freezers
A few plugs and lights
Coffee pot (probably should be at the top of the list)
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 6:35:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
[snip]

4(! ). In your house, it's not a bad idea to have some equipment on a battery backup device. I use a fair amount of APC back up systems at home - all TVs, all computers, all networking equipment, security stuff.
If you have a high end battery back up, you may have to change the sensitivity setting for when you are on generator power, or the damn thing might keep rolling off gen power and onto battery power even when being fed by the generator.

5. Should be very self explanatory.


OP, I owe you a case of beer and a nice bottle of red wine - very timely topic.
View Quote
I'm listening....



Link Posted: 2/19/2021 7:00:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 7:04:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm listening....



View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
[snip]

4(! ). In your house, it's not a bad idea to have some equipment on a battery backup device. I use a fair amount of APC back up systems at home - all TVs, all computers, all networking equipment, security stuff.
If you have a high end battery back up, you may have to change the sensitivity setting for when you are on generator power, or the damn thing might keep rolling off gen power and onto battery power even when being fed by the generator.

5. Should be very self explanatory.


OP, I owe you a case of beer and a nice bottle of red wine - very timely topic.
I'm listening....





I use a mix of the Back UPS and Smart UPS series in my house.

- one Back UPS Pro 1000 on one of the two garage door openers, so we are not locked out of the garage if power is lost when we are not home. Other garage opener is on regular utility power only.
- all of my electronic comms (modem, router,  PoE switch for WAPs and generic gigabit switch for all hard wire) are on one APC Smart UPS X 2000 rack mountable system. I have one battery back (as big as the device) that gives me about...uh, 98hrs of run time. I also splurged for the APC network management card (AP9640), so I could monitor this particular device from anywhere I had internet access.

- four desktops here, each on a Back UPS Pro 700 or 1000. One of those "desktops" is our media hub with a 60" TV. Stereo is on  the "surge only" side of the UPS, TV and PC are on the "battery backup" side. All of the computers are USBed to the battery device, and will gracefully shut down when battery power falls to 4% (my setting), and SHOULD power back up when line power is back. My UPSes are set to deliver line power when they are powered (some stay off until you turn them back on...maybe it's a setting).

- cameras are on a separate LAN with PoE switch with system "DVR", all on a Back UPS Pro 1000. Camera system has about a 2 day run time, IIRC. The DVR does not speak to this UPS, I tested the run time by simply pulling the plug. All of my models show run time and load on the built in tiny screens.

I TRY to change out the batteries every 3-4 years, and the systems definitely get trashed after about 8yrs, except I have held onto the bigger systems with just pulling the batteries and recycling.

We have lost power here in the daytime and no one at home realized it, because we had no lights on at the time. Most times someone notices the heat / AC is off (system resets to 0600 Monday with power restored) and we have to reset the time on the thermostat (none of our HVAC is on any battery protection).

One year we put all of our external Christmas decorations (we have lawn lights that look like twinkling stars) on a battery backup. House was still fully lit (all LEDs) with Christmas lights, rest of the nabe was dark.

Years ago I had a bad experience with my (then) generator attempting to work from home during a power loss, and the PCs did not like the power coming from the generator. I put Smart UPSes in, but the damn things were still on battery mode (or switched every few seconds) while on the generator. APCC tech support told me to change the sensitivity setting, which cleared it up. I think the newer lot of Smart UPSes do NOT have the sensitivity setting as a hard switch (might be in the settings?).


Link Posted: 2/19/2021 7:23:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History



Check you state regulations, I was interested in the GenerLink, but found out that it's not approved for use in Idaho as of yet.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 7:57:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Great thread - thanks for the information. I'm definitely in the market for my first generator. I'm leaning towards a Predator 3500 inverter.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 8:10:27 PM EDT
[#30]
My shit runs when I start it up
and other shit runs when I plug it in.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 8:34:54 PM EDT
[#31]
I have a large rubbermaid type container that has everything needed to maintain the generators. Oil, stabilizer, spare air filters, proper sized tools so nobody has go plowing through tool boxes.

Spare spark plugs, gap wrench, antisieze, plug adapters.

A folder with the manuals and my maintenance. I actually keep everything I do on a note app on my phone and write it in the book every now and then.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 9:23:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have a large rubbermaid type container that has everything needed to maintain the generators. Oil, stabilizer, spare air filters, proper sized tools so nobody has go plowing through tool boxes.

Spare spark plugs, gap wrench, antisieze, plug adapters.

A folder with the manuals and my maintenance. I actually keep everything I do on a note app on my phone and write it in the book every now and then.
View Quote

Great idea. We printed ours on stock paper single sided (9 pages) in the biggest fonts we could read without glasses. One copy in a binder tethered to the generator, the other at the breaker panel. Both locations also have flashlights.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 9:32:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Great idea. We printed ours on stock paper single sided (9 pages) in the biggest fonts we could read without glasses. One copy in a binder tethered to the generator, the other at the breaker panel. Both locations also have flashlights.
View Quote

You can also add pictures to your checklist so it's even easier to follow under stress. For example, instead of just saying "plug cable into generator inlet receptacle" you can include a picture of plugging it in so a family member with no clue what that is can identify it. Same with operating an interlock in your breaker panel, transfer switch, etc.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 9:40:28 PM EDT
[#34]
You can waste valuable fuel in a "rolling blackout" situation like TX experienced if you don't know grid power returned and keep running your generator. A "power return alarm" can be placed at your breaker panel / transfer switch to indicate that the grid power has returned, allowing you to switch back to the grid until it goes out again. If you don't have an automatic transfer switch (ATS) to do the switching back and forth for you this can be handy.
Amazon Product
  • For use with any new or existing main breaker panel or transfer switch
  • Intended for installation on any manual transfer panel or generator-ready load center
  • Sounds an 86dBA (@30cm) audible alert during in event of power outage

Link Posted: 2/19/2021 9:43:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

In my case, my main disconnect is approx 30 feet from my breaker panel.... Due to the distances between the main disconnect and the panel, there is really no way to install a proper disconnect for a generator, so...I have a suicide cord that I backfeed the house with from my portable generator. I would not recommend this setup unless it is the last option you have to temporarily power up your home in an emergency situation. An interlock or transfer panel really is the only safe and approved way to power up your home.

My wife is famous for tripping the circuit on the generator by using her hair dryer, while I'm trying to make coffee, or run the water heater. No biggie, but it's something to think about. A generator will probably not run everything at once. You tend to forget that your running on portable power and try doing things that normally wouldn't be a problem.

One thing particular to most modern furnaces, is that they need a good ground for it to work properly. When backfeeding, your using the house ground so it's less of a concern. If your using a small unit with a cord to your gas furnace, you may have to rig something up to trick the furnace into thinking it has a solid ground.

View Quote


I edited out a lot.

You can put in a transfer panel with no issue. It would also limit the accidental tripping as if you put the circuits in it correctly it limits you from turning everything on and forgetting its on. Its just a simple main lug panel, with two feed breakers and an interlock. Then install the circuits you want to run the gen.

And in other ways you have it simpler. You can buy a transfer switch that just goes between your disconnect and panel. makes it even easier than a normal service.

As for the modern furnace, that is the issue average joe had. we fixed it.

STOP USING THE SUICIDE CORD. The transfer panel is about 150 bucks in material.

@PWA_Commando
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 9:57:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Power quality by power type:


Grid: (residential)



Quality Pure sine inverter: (ProSine 2.0)



Cheap pure sine inverter: (ProWatt600)



Modified Sine wave inverter: (and cheap UPSs)



Inverter generator: (Honda EU2000i)



Brushless, 1800 rpm industrial generator:(MEP-802a)



3600rpm noise and fume maker: (Honda EB6500i)



BUY ONCE, CRY ONCE
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 10:12:24 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Great thread thanks- I’m generator shopping and finding an electrician to discuss putting a transfer switch.

Can someone smarter than me give a rundown on what kw demands are from common appliances? Such as how big of a generator do I need?

All of our main appliances are propane, so I’m assuming not much kw demand, but here’s what I assume most people want to keep running in an outage:

Heat furnace (mine is gas)
ac maybe?
Water heater (mine is gas tankless)
Cooktop
Oven
Microwave
Refrigerators and freezers
A few plugs and lights
Coffee pot (probably should be at the top of the list)
View Quote


Heat furnace (mine is gas) depending on age and size 4 to 10 amps, or 500 to 1200 watts
ac maybe? too many varibles
Water heater (mine is gas tankless) 100 watts if gas
Cooktop 100 watts if gas
Oven 100 watts if gas plus the light bulb, when it lights if it has a hot igniter ( ie not spark or pilot ) it will go up tp 200 to 300 until it lights
Microwave average around 1000
Refrigerators and freezers if not really old start up 5-600 then 150 to 200 watts
A few plugs and lights lights if led are not even worth counting, plugs depends what you plug in
Coffee pot (probably should be at the top of the list) 1200 to 1500 watts.

so your in the range of a single 2k if you are careful with loads, 3.5 k if you dont want to be as careful, or 2 2k so when just sitting around you could just run on one.

@Big-Tex22
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 10:14:08 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You can waste valuable fuel in a "rolling blackout" situation like TX experienced if you don't know grid power returned and keep running your generator. A "power return alarm" can be placed at your breaker panel / transfer switch to indicate that the grid power has returned, allowing you to switch back to the grid until it goes out again. If you don't have an automatic transfer switch (ATS) to do the switching back and forth for you this can be handy.
www.amazon.com/dp/B003KREORA
View Quote


Not a bad way to do it if your using a whole panel interlock, not really needed if doing the transfer panel.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 10:29:16 PM EDT
[#39]
For us guys with smaller inverter generators that might want to run multiple at the same time in parallel mode, you can get parallel kits for more than just the typical 2 at a time. You can also get gas tanks to extend the run time between fills, including ones with multiple tubes to run multiple generators. This place offers both for example:
http://durationpower.com/store//index.html
The compatibility of such kits will vary between make and model of generator.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 10:32:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Honda, end of thread.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 10:41:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Honda, end of thread.
View Quote


Useless post about hondas coming from the guy with KTM in his screen name.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 11:07:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Are any of the less than whole house capable gensets "Duty Rated"?

I sort of doubt many of the china generators will run continuous for a week. We run a Honda 2000 inv. every night at hunting camp and that is pretty much the best quality unit. i wouldn't trust the others but I'm sure they are probably ok for a few hours here and there.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 11:10:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Where are suicide cords sourced?
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 11:20:58 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Are any of the less than whole house capable gensets "Duty Rated"?

I sort of doubt many of the china generators will run continuous for a week. We run a Honda 2000 inv. every night at hunting camp and that is pretty much the best quality unit. i wouldn't trust the others but I'm sure they are probably ok for a few hours here and there.
View Quote


There are many RV people with 10,000 hours on the HF predator 3.5k.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 11:21:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Where are suicide cords sourced?
View Quote


They are not sourced, they are risky. only option is to make one.

Dont do it, do it the right way.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 11:22:08 PM EDT
[#46]
When searching for an electrician to install the transfer switch, what should I look out for to prevent from getting ripped off?

The generator I'll be using is a Honda eu7000
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 11:30:25 PM EDT
[#47]
OLD SCHOOL TAG

Link Posted: 2/19/2021 11:36:02 PM EDT
[#48]
What is the average cost to have an electrician  install this correctly, autoswitch and new panel with what you want to run?

I really would only want/need a deep freezer in garage, refrigerator, gas water heater, gas furnace and my AC running but I have dual units - Upstairs/Downstairs.  I would even be fine with just either the up or downstairs running.

My concern is more so Texas summer than what we just had.  Yeah it sucked but I can get warmer easier than colder.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 11:39:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
When searching for an electrician to install the transfer switch, what should I look out for to prevent from getting ripped off?

The generator I'll be using is a Honda eu7000
View Quote


if your righting the check to company your pretty safe, but dont pay anything more than 30% upfront. If they dont like it, find someone else. Also if you want it inspected ask for a copy of the permit. Doing a permit is something that should be done, but if you have faith in the guy/company you could go with out, maybe.

Example the guy has been doing work for a bunch of people you know, and you have heard nothing but good stuff from lots of people. Or if its an established company, they will do it right as they dont want to hurt their reputation, or risk their license if you reported them if they screwed up
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 11:47:50 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What is the average cost to have an electrician  install this correctly, autoswitch and new panel with what you want to run?

I really would only want/need a deep freezer in garage, refrigerator, gas water heater, gas furnace and my AC running but I have dual units - Upstairs/Downstairs.  I would even be fine with just either the up or downstairs running.

My concern is more so Texas summer than what we just had.  Yeah it sucked but I can get warmer easier than colder.
View Quote


You will probably need north of a 10k watt for an ac in texas. You would be better off with something smaller and a window unit or two to cool just one or two rooms off, if your not doing a whole house gen.

You could get buy with a 3.5 inverter with window units with out an issue. Just run the window unit to cool your bedroom before bed, a 3.5 k should be able to handle a 10k btu window unit, or two 5k btu units.

Material for the panel is under 200, the cord and plugs can be another 100 or more if they are long, if your doing a portable with a manual transfer. Labor is less than 8 hours, more like 4, a fair price most of the time would be $1k for a small company or a side job. If you want to use a larger company expect to pay 12-1500.

If you want a whole house figure on around a 14k and probably 10 to 12k installed.
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