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Posted: 6/13/2018 12:11:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This has been brought up a few times in this thread, outside of movies I’ve never seen a semi auto effectively engage an aircraft...especially if it’s flying at say 3k AGL which is gonna be at the max effect range of about anything even if your right in the flight path. Getting shot down would be the least of my worries. 
Accountant |
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Posted: 6/13/2018 2:21:32 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would still take the shot.
Accountant The target box of the orthographic view of a light aircraft with few systems, has proportionally few vulnerabilities, even if one were lucky enough to put a round into it. |
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Posted: 6/13/2018 9:28:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This has been brought up a few times in this thread, outside of movies I’ve never seen a semi auto effectively engage an aircraft...especially if it’s flying at say 3k AGL which is gonna be at the max effect range of about anything even if your right in the flight path. Getting shot down would be the least of my worries. |
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Posted: 6/13/2018 10:22:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Out of curiosity, how many times have you seen an aircraft get engaged by a semi auto other than movies? @Accountant Why would you shoot at a small plane? To get something from it? Try to scare it off? Just curious why waste the time/resources to randomly shoot at something that isn't having a direct impact on your SHTF scenario. |
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Posted: 6/13/2018 10:46:40 PM EDT
[#5]
I have to say if it was TEOTEAWKI low flying plans could be scouting your place.
Not sure if I have the skills to take out a plane with my 10/22. I guess I need to source a SAM... Is that a form 1 kind of thing? |
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Posted: 6/14/2018 9:07:39 AM EDT
[#6]
Some of you dudes just have no sense for imagining the possible ...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OBnrJoV2mZg |
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Posted: 6/14/2018 9:39:57 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of you dudes just have no sense for imagining the possible ... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OBnrJoV2mZg Nick |
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Posted: 6/14/2018 9:49:16 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryShort memories. 9/11/2001, the American airspace was shut down TO ALL but government sanctioned operations within the first hour for the next two weeks. Quote HistoryShort memories. 9/11/2001, the American airspace was shut down TO ALL but government sanctioned operations within the first hour for the next two weeks. But there is a large gap between 460 controlled plus 15k nontower airports and ALL personal aircraft and landing strips. A very large gap. Detected violators were intercepted and I'm unaware of any violations being dished out but none the less, ops were not allowed. Bugging out by aircraft might leave you stranded at the airport. I also believe based on briefings I've received that our ability to intercept aircraft domestically in 2018 is unfortunately actually less than it was in 2001. I do not, however, personally know that to be a fact. Your point is a very valid one though- especially if one intended to keep a bugout aircraft at an airport of any kind. My point is simply that not all personal aircraft spend all of their days parked on an airport and some of those aircraft did make successful flights on and after 9/11 while others could not. |
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Posted: 6/14/2018 10:11:07 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryWhy would you shoot at a small plane? To get something from it? Try to scare it off? Just curious why waste the time/resources to randomly shoot at something that isn't having a direct impact on your SHTF scenario. |
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Posted: 6/16/2018 11:14:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Been a pilot for the last 17 years. I also have an ATP with a few type ratings and my instructor licenses. So I know things.
Several thoughts. 1) It really depends on your AO. Desert southwest, certain parts of the south and Midwest are all good to base and launch an airplane from. Also the GA fields are usually in rural parts. Northeast fuck no. 2) Your looking at something like a Cessna 170B or 180. Cheap, reliable, easy to fix. Payload is 2 people and 360lbs of gear or 3 people and 180lbs of gear. Anything bigger and your getting into mechanical complexity issues when you REALLY don’t want to be grounded. Also the Cessna 170 mechanically is about as complex as a VW bug. Anything bigger and the thing becomes like fixing a Prius. I also used to fix aircraft. 3) If you get a private pilots license you need to get an instrument license. That’s about 15k. And you need to keep yourself current flying every weekend. 4) The only jack asses who will be shooting at you are confirmed thug life retards with hi point 9mm. Your adverage Ferguson Dezien. Ask me how I know....... Bright side though is you can take the doors off the 170 and get yourself something drum or belt fed to help with that. 5) If you do bug out the airplane route you will effectively cut out all the bullshit in reaching your destination as long as the fuel and weather hold out. 6) Interesting note. IFR flying can be accomplished in what is considered war time conditions. It’s what the Army Air Force did during the invasions of France and Germany. Where ground based navigation stations were......unaccomadating. Thing is you need to understand your terrain so you don’t hit anything in the clouds. And you need a way of getting down. That could either be your field is clear and your getting out of the weather. Or some type of GPS approach. If you do it expect war time casualty rates though. |
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Posted: 6/17/2018 11:35:10 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As soon as I move to the desert, it will be a high priority to get one... 
Actually having a small boat isn't a bad idea; because stuff happens. (even in the desert) Having access to a plane would be a nice option for escape; even in a 9/11 type grounding, if your family was in imminent danger you wouldn't do some tree topping to get out of Dodge? Looks like from this thread that a practical BOP would need to be larger and expensive; at least as big as a DH Beaver or Twin Otter or preferably a C-2A Greyhound, C-123, or slightly used C-130  ? with floats?
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Posted: 6/17/2018 12:02:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude, seriously? 
Apparently you never saw the movie, Road Warrior. The 'Gyro captain' character in that same type of craft got shot down by a bad guy with a handgun - IIRC, it was a S&W Model 29 .44 Magnum.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think a Gyrocopter is an interesting option.
Apparently you never saw the movie, Road Warrior. The 'Gyro captain' character in that same type of craft got shot down by a bad guy with a handgun - IIRC, it was a S&W Model 29 .44 Magnum. Somebody needs to go back and watch their "Road Warrior" again... |
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Posted: 6/17/2018 12:07:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/76643/34137517_10212403231820801_4204304672434946048_n-573758.JPG How about this. 4 people and gear. 2 crew + 12 passengers... I don't want to leave my Harem behind just because of "The End Of Civilization"... It will take prodigious breeding to restore our "Brave New World"... 
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Posted: 6/17/2018 2:41:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Looks like the AN-2 is the winner.
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Posted: 6/17/2018 3:35:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like the AN-2 is the winner.
Shirt on your back comes to mind... |
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Posted: 6/20/2018 2:39:29 AM EDT
[#16]
I can certainly see the utility in it. Having read both Patriots and One Second Later, those have good uses for planes. Recon would be priceless once bug out complete.
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Posted: 6/20/2018 4:53:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Another advantage of the Gyrocopter - apparently very hard to pick up on radar. A few years back a guy flew one right into DC and landed in front of the Capital as a political protest, wasn't detected until he was within eyeball range.
Combined with the minimal takeofff and landing area required, it's an ideal 'stealth' escapecraft, so long as you don't need to haul much onboard. Here's a model made in Germany, for $66k brand new - about the cost of a nice car: L x B x H: 5.1 m x 1.9 m (1.6) x 2.7 m Rotor diameter: 8.0 or 8.4 m Cruising speed: 160 km/h (86kts, 100mph) Permissible maximum speed 185 km/h (100kts, 115mph) Climb rate: 4 m/s (780fpm) Range: approx 500 km (310 miles) Max. take off mass 450 kg A maximum of 120 meters distance is needed for take-off and only 20 meters for landing. "A gyroplane, however, will provide 90% of the capability of the helicopter for 1/10th the price. The gyroplane's simplicity makes it as easy to maintain as a motorcycle. Combine non-stall design with extraordinary maneuverability, near-hover slow flight, unmatched stability, good speed and low cost, and you can see why those who have discovered gyroplanes are smitten." --> Can bugout up to 310 miles @ 100mph. https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/gyroplanes-buyers-guide-2015/#.WyoSYxJKhE4 |
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Posted: 6/20/2018 11:22:43 AM EDT
[#18]
What license is needed for gyroplane?
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Posted: 6/21/2018 7:21:46 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another advantage of the Gyrocopter - apparently very hard to pick up on radar. A few years back a guy flew one right into DC and landed in front of the Capital as a political protest, wasn't detected until he was within eyeball range. https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/0f708a2/2147483647/resize/1160x/quality/90/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fs3-origin-images.politico.com%2F2015%2F05%2F20%2F150520_gyrocopter_gty_629.jpg Combined with the minimal takeofff and landing area required, it's an ideal 'stealth' escapecraft, so long as you don't need to haul much onboard. Here's a model made in Germany, for $66k brand new - about the cost of a nice car: L x B x H: 5.1 m x 1.9 m (1.6) x 2.7 m Rotor diameter: 8.0 or 8.4 m Cruising speed: 160 km/h (86kts, 100mph) Permissible maximum speed 185 km/h (100kts, 115mph) Climb rate: 4 m/s (780fpm) Range: approx 500 km (310 miles) Max. take off mass 450 kg A maximum of 120 meters distance is needed for take-off and only 20 meters for landing. "A gyroplane, however, will provide 90% of the capability of the helicopter for 1/10th the price. The gyroplane's simplicity makes it as easy to maintain as a motorcycle. Combine non-stall design with extraordinary maneuverability, near-hover slow flight, unmatched stability, good speed and low cost, and you can see why those who have discovered gyroplanes are smitten." --> Can bugout up to 310 miles @ 100mph. https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/gyroplanes-buyers-guide-2015/#.WyoSYxJKhE4 |
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Posted: 6/22/2018 6:57:18 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting info, ... but it seems like a Gyrocopter/plane thingy would make an even easier target for a gangbanger with a stolen Barret .50-cal than the small conventional "bush" planes suggested earlier in this thread. But, assuming you were: -There is 0 reason for anyone to be shooting at your Bugout plane; unlike a roadblock, where you can kill the occupants and steal their supplies/women, shooting down a plane just destroys everything. -The vast majority of the population sucks at shooting. The # of people who can hit a small flying aircraft 1000'-4000' feet in the air that is traveling 60-100mph is extremely low. And those folks are unlikely to be shooting down small gyrocopters. -Even if a gyrocopter were to be shot in the engine, the design will automatically AutoRotate back to the ground safely - a much safer situation then attempting the land a plane or helicopter without power. |
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Posted: 6/22/2018 7:15:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
-Even if a gyrocopter were to be shot in the engine, the design will automatically AutoRotate back to the ground safely - a much safer situation then attempting the land a plane or helicopter without power. Nothing about falling out of the sky to make contact with the ground is “automatically” done
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Posted: 6/23/2018 7:27:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know about glide ratios in planes and auto rotation in helicopters? Nothing about falling out of the sky to make contact with the ground is “automatically” done Here's the video of one cutting it's engine and autogyrating down to earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVRtNzvp-3A |
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Posted: 6/23/2018 8:00:32 AM EDT
[#23]
I'm taking the one that ain't in the shop and will start.
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Posted: 6/23/2018 12:44:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Semantics...
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Posted: 6/23/2018 7:06:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're right, "automatically" may be a stretch, but they do seem to land quite easily without power. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You know about glide ratios in planes and auto rotation in helicopters? Nothing about falling out of the sky to make contact with the ground is “automatically” done 
I'll take my chances with Max's V-8 Interceptor.
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Posted: 6/23/2018 10:23:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm taking the one that ain't in the shop and will start.
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Posted: 6/24/2018 9:36:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, it WAS a 1911...good against Nazi tanks, good against choppers...where is your Glock god now? Nick Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some of you dudes just have no sense for imagining the possible ... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OBnrJoV2mZg Nick  . |
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Posted: 6/24/2018 10:12:17 AM EDT
[#28]
You could always borrow the right plane if you had the knowledge and expertise
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Posted: 6/25/2018 8:34:41 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm taking the one that ain't in the shop and will start.  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/25/2018 9:01:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You could always borrow the right plane if you had the knowledge and expertise . |
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Posted: 6/27/2018 1:22:58 PM EDT
[#31]
The only thing stopping you is money, and a plan for food rotation.
Just like the military, projection of your forces requires logistics. |
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Posted: 7/1/2018 8:29:45 PM EDT
[#32]
Here you go OP.
Saw this and thought of you sir.... The float plane and house have your name all over it. (#5 at 4:45 in the video)  10 Most Innovative Houseboats and Future Floating Homes |
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Posted: 7/2/2018 8:12:44 AM EDT
[#33]
House boats are still boats
... and boats can be made to sink. Lots of spendy needed there just to float in style. It's $$$ better spent elsewhere, no? |
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Posted: 7/2/2018 8:21:01 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Most people have this fetish with vehicles" No. Most people just actually own one. I have access to a truck. I cannot afford a plane. I work with the tools I have. |
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Posted: 7/2/2018 12:36:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. I have access to a truck. I cannot afford a plane. I work with the tools I have. |
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Posted: 7/2/2018 6:52:30 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. I have access to a truck. I cannot afford a plane. I work with the tools I have. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Most people have this fetish with vehicles. No. Most people just actually own one. I have access to a truck. I cannot afford a plane. I work with the tools I have. 
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Posted: 7/16/2018 5:49:56 PM EDT
[#37]
Meh, Ill take my chances out at sea. I think a weeklong fishing trip would be more enjoyable than flying to another airport that could be experiencing the same issues as your hometown or worse, not to mention the possibility of not being able to refuel.
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Posted: 7/16/2018 7:39:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Who is in on an ARFcom group buy?
You all know you dream of bugging out like this. 
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Posted: 7/17/2018 12:17:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who is in on an ARFcom group buy? https://i.imgur.com/I8dfQai.gif You all know you dream of bugging out like this. https://i.imgur.com/hyKW74L.gif
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Posted: 7/17/2018 6:32:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who is in on an ARFcom group buy? https://i.imgur.com/I8dfQai.gif You all know you dream of bugging out like this. https://i.imgur.com/hyKW74L.gif Major air target right there. Hover low and make it easy ...Dey gonna be chutin' at ya!
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Posted: 7/17/2018 11:01:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, right. Major air target right there. Hover low and make it easy ...Dey gonna be chutin' at ya! 
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Posted: 7/18/2018 8:05:21 AM EDT
[#42]
For a solo prepper, the Black Fly might be the way to go. Ultralight, no pilots license, easy to fly, 25 mile range. Plan a hopping point or two, and you could decently get out of dodge. While fuels might be high on everyone’s immediate scavenger list, they just might overlook proprietary batteries that look unfamiliar.
Edit: Just saw this thing is solar power chargeable too. Might not even need to stash batteries on your route to your BOL n fantasyland. Black Fly 
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Posted: 7/18/2018 3:21:47 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For a solo prepper, the Black Fly might be the way to go. Ultralight, no pilots license, easy to fly, 25 mile range. Plan a hopping point or two, and you could decently get out of dodge. While fuels might be high on everyone’s immediate scavenger list, they just might overlook proprietary batteries that look unfamiliar. Edit: Just saw this thing is solar power chargeable too. Might not even need to stash batteries on your route to your BOL n fantasyland. Black Fly https://i.imgur.com/8JsYH2q.jpg I would consider getting one of these [or a similar vehicle, after a year of significant owner feedback] if they perform as advertised and adequate performance at altitude. |
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Posted: 7/28/2018 8:22:46 AM EDT
[#44]
My BOL is a 10 hour drive (and Atlanta sits on the way) in perfect conditions. But St Pete airport is 10 minutes from my house and there is a county airport 10 minutes from my BOL. We're actually thinking of buying an additional place on a lake, which in theory could negate even needing an airport. It is fascinating to think about being able to skip what is an unrealistic drive during a true SHTF or TEOWAWKI. The FedEx cargo planes (Cessna 208B Cargomaster) seem ideal and there is a amphib config.
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Posted: 7/29/2018 1:41:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm already a pilot and know the weight limits of aircraft. I also know all about the "high security" at GA airport. I also know about how complex locks are on GA aircraft. I'm not worried about owning one for SHTF
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Posted: 7/30/2018 10:42:28 PM EDT
[#46]
I think I would rather have a Honda Ruckus and a few one gallon cans than a plane.
A powered paraglider sounds fun though. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 11:05:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see what you did there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm already a pilot and know the weight limits of aircraft. I also know all about the "high security" at GA airport. I also know about how complex locks are on GA aircraft. I'm not worried about owning one for SHTF So many think they are way smarter than others it's laughable... Maybe if he ACTUALLY OWNED a plane, he'd also be smart enough to think this through a lot better. |
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Posted: 7/30/2018 11:07:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: See You and Raise You... 2 crew + 12 passengers... I don't want to leave my Harem behind just because of "The End Of Civilization"... It will take prodigious breeding to restore our "Brave New World"... https://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3510/99344284.56/0_114361_ba7aa53f_orig |
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Posted: 7/31/2018 12:18:56 AM EDT
[#49]
I prefer a bug-out-boat.
I took pilot school a long long time ago ... an aircraft is a pretty high-tech machine that requires lots of maintenance every so many hours less the pull of gravity exceeds the lift generated by the wings at the least opportune time. An aircraft has to go somewhere as they have loiter times measured in minutes rather than days. They're a challenge to fly in the dark and in lots of weather conditions. The suck fuel like crazy but produce high speeds for getting the hell out of dodge but quick. Training someone is a good 90 hours of classroom (IIRC). A boat on the ocean is different in that they're pretty low tech and require fare less maintenance. The right boat is self sufficient generating electrical power from solar cells and using sails to propel itself thousands and thousand of miles. They're large enough to stock with lots of supplies for many people. The ocean is a wonderfully empty place and you can go days and days (and days) without seeking another ship if you desire. A boat will let you navigate out from shore and wait out nearly anything floating on top of the two most important things needed to sustain life - water and food. Desalinate all the water needed, catch fish until you can't stand to eat any more. Sailing at night isn't difficult and a craft of a large enough size, properly battened down will survive all but the worst possible weather and all likely probable weather. Boats aren't fast but they are consistent slowly moving day and night non-stop with a couple of pilots. Training to sail one is pretty darn easy. |
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Posted: 7/31/2018 11:44:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I own a 182, which is a true 4 place aircraft. Six place planes are a LOT pricier. That said, bad plan. First, you have to get to the airport, unless you live in an air park. Next your ability to carry supplies with all 4 seats filled is limited. Finally, what’s to say the place you are bugging out to is any safer? Now if you have a backyard grass strip and a STOL capable taildragger...maybe it’s an OK plan. If the weather cooperates on bugout day. Yeah, weather matters with flying...like a lot. What if there is convection that day? Or icing? Of low IFR conditions? Cost is relative. Figure a good 10k for training to PPL, not including an instrument rating (which I have). Figure about 50k for an airworthy but older bird (mine is a 1962 model year). That kind of coin can buy a lot of other prep options. Aviation is NOT cheap...worth it, but not cheap. I like what you’re selling, but not sure I’m buying. |
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