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Posted: 9/6/2017 11:30:15 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If there is a local airfield they likely rotate their gas which gets sold at a local station with a racing gas pump. Buy it there. News to me... |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 11:31:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so I never have problems with any of my gas, in anything else, except the one with stabil, but its my fault? It amazing how many will cover for their panaceas MUH silver colloid Is that Spanish for 'Security Blanket'? |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 11:36:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Don't be a douche bag learn to drain your carb bowl for storage running something dry still leaves shit in the bowl that will varnish. Stabil or not dumb idea on a genny. Are you the same guy on the boat ramp that can't his engine fired off every season?
drain fuel drail carb oil cylinder. 3 months 3 years always starts back up. But that's small engine storage 101. |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 11:47:28 AM EDT
[#4]
We use modern ethanol gas and never drain the carb on -let's see--- at least a dozen small engines and 6 vehicles, and they almost always start right up, unless something else is wrong, can't remember that happening.
This is a fact even sitting for years. Wasn't true back when fuel was less finely refined with sludge and varnish, or if water was in the gas can used to fill the various tanks. Even a 1990's ATV has had NO issues with ethanol gas... Inspected the carb 2 years ago when I did routine system maintenance on it, all elastomeric components were fine. This said, I've seen urethane [small diameter tubing made for industrial pneumatic control that I've used on engines] fuel line sometimes be affected. Best to use the silicone tubing available everywhere. |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 12:02:49 PM EDT
[#5]
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You let gas sit for 4 years, and are complaining that the gas additive did not do its job?  |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 12:27:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stabil is crap. Put it in my backup F350 and after 1 year it dissolved the lining in the tank and gunked up the entire fuel system. I have already spent $1500 trying to get it going but it looks like a write-off. |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 12:49:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just torch it 
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Posted: 9/6/2017 1:09:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've always had good luck with seafoam. |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 1:18:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
I just rebuilt/cleaned a carb on my big generator. It was gummed up with orangish crap that came from stabil-real gas is not orange. the orange gunk that you observed is not from stabil nor any other fuel system additive; it is the result of extensive oxidation of the alkenes, olefins, and drying oils in the gasoline itself. the carburetor on any engine has a variety of ports that allow for ingress of atmospheric pressure air, and this air contains oxygen, and this is what oxidizes various chemical components of gasoline. the fuel tank itself may be exposed to the atmosphere as well due to the vented tank cap. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#Fuel_stabilizers_.28antioxidants_and_metal_deactivators.29 Gummy, sticky resin deposits result from oxidative degradation of gasoline upon long term storage. These harmful deposits arise from the oxidation of alkenes and other minor components in gasoline (see drying oils). Improvements in refinery techniques have generally reduced the susceptibility of gasolines to these problems. Previously, catalytically or thermally cracked gasolines are most susceptible to oxidation. The formation of these gums is accelerated by copper salts, which can be neutralized by additives called metal deactivators. This degradation can be prevented through the addition of 5–100 ppm of antioxidants, such as phenylenediamines and other amines.[4] Hydrocarbons with a bromine number of 10 or above can be protected with the combination of unhindered or partially hindered phenols and oil-soluble strong amine bases, such as hindered phenols. "Stale" gasoline can be detected by a colorimetric enzymatic test for organic peroxides produced by oxidation of the gasoline.[37] Gasolines are also treated with metal deactivators, which are compounds that sequester (deactivate) metal salts that otherwise accelerate the formation of gummy residues. The metal impurities might arise from the engine itself or as contaminants in the fuel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drying_oil there is a standardized testing suite for evaluating the oxidation stability of a sample of gasoline: https://www.astm.org/Standards/D525.htm note: the anti-oxidation additive package mixed into raw gasoline is highly variable among refiners, distributors, and so on -- because additives cost money. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 1:19:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Sea Foam MSDS
Pale Oil: Naptha [mineral Spirits] : Isopropyl Alcohol MAGIC!!! MSDS link http://msdsdigital.com/sea-foam-msds Discussion on DIY Seafoam. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=269397 |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 1:43:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've always had good luck with seafoam. |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 1:48:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Casino I worked at had backup generators, they fired up once a month for an hour regardless.
Maybe not a bad idea? |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 3:05:15 PM EDT
[#13]
I went back to using leaded gas for my small engines just because if this
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Posted: 9/6/2017 3:38:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Casino I worked at had backup generators, they fired up once a month for an hour regardless. Maybe not a bad idea? assuming you can spin it fast enough, the generator will start. 
in that sort of application, the generators are set up in a N+1 configuration at minimum. meaning, they need N generators for their expected load, but there are N+1 generators available. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 3:43:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Casino I worked at had backup generators, they fired up once a month for an hour regardless. Maybe not a bad idea? Wet Stacking And it's very real. One of our facilities wanted to replace their genny because it was "worn out" and wouldn't get up to power. 2500 hours on a DD 16V91T? They said they ran it under full load once a week. I went out there and witnessed the "full load" test. It was run at 0500, and the facility went to special lengths to make sure they weren't running any processes during that time. So "full building load" was about 30% rated load. Called up the service company, told them to bring out a load bank. In 2 hours the machine went from 70% rated output to 90%, with plumes of black smoke for the first half hour. When it plateaued we checked it over, and one of the 4 turbos was bad, which kept it from reaching 95%. Told the facility to fix the turbo, add a load bank test yearly, and forget about a new EDG. And no, National would not be paying for the yearly testing, because the service company had recommended it years before but they decided to spend the maintenance funds on other things. |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 3:47:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
each of their backups is likely a 250KW generator with a prime-rated 400HP i6 diesel engine, and 1000 gallons of fuel stored. assuming you can spin it fast enough, the generator will start.
in that sort of application, the generators are set up in a N+1 configuration at minimum. meaning, they need N generators for their expected load, but there are N+1 generators available. ar-jedi |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 4:11:03 PM EDT
[#17]
I've been using VP Fuel's SEF fuel for my 2 stroke small engine tools (mixed 50:1) throughout the year. Carbonization isn't an issue, fuel lines /grommets don't crack, plugs don't foul and carbs don't get gummed up. The 4stroke version I start with a dry tank, put about 1pint in the take and run it through use for winterization. My generators aren't used often I've never had an issue. I do start them every 3 months to keep fresh fuel in the system.
Link to VP https://vpracingfuels.com/small-engine-fuels/ It' not cheap ($90.00/5gallons) but worth the money when you consider you don't need to mess around with the motors and they always start. |
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Posted: 9/6/2017 11:16:18 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 9/7/2017 8:06:47 AM EDT
[#19]
I work at a small town grocery / gas store, all the local fuel companies supply the same type of gases. If it isn't over 91 grade it has ethanol, period. The 87 octane all have ethanol and the mid grade blends the low grade and high grade at the location (pump). Unless you use high grade only you will be using ethanol, even if the store says otherwise.
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Posted: 9/7/2017 8:14:30 AM EDT
[#20]
I use seafoam in my genny and shut off the fuel to the carb and let it run till it dies. never had any issues. don't forget the ethanol in todays fuel's can wreck a carb's seals on it's own. I also try and change the fuel yearly at the latest. but it pretty much gets used every monsoon season, so no major long storing for it. I also change the oil prior to storing it. speaking of i'll have to do that in the coming weeks. don't forget to use non detergent oil unless specified to use something else.
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Posted: 9/7/2017 8:52:37 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh, I shut the fuel valve and run the carb dry. Have used Stabil for years without any kind of event. This reads more like looking to blame someone else for being a bone head. 
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Posted: 9/7/2017 9:20:55 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been using stabil for years with no issue. I never let any fuel get over a year old, usually less, since I tend to go through more than I can store each summer. |
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Posted: 9/7/2017 9:54:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use Stabil and Seafoam in no ethanol 87 octane gas. 5 of my ten cans of gas have Lucas Oil brand fuel system cleaner. I have zero issues with gas storage. After one year I pour the old gas into our daily drivers and burn it. Op is wrong on this subject. Running 100LL may not work in all engines if your valves are not designed for leaded gas. Small lawn equipment will begin to lose power with lead deposits. Remember all aircraft require and Annual inspection, and other aircraft have 100 hr inspections which have this as a check list item (so they don't fall out of the sky). Unless you want to tear down your heads every year, I'd stay away from 100LL. Just ask an airboat owner who has a Cadillac engine instead of an aircraft engine. They use Mo-gas instead of AV-gas for a reason! So be careful of the advice you get on the internet... |
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Posted: 9/7/2017 5:37:57 PM EDT
[#24]
I've run 100LL in aircraft tugs w/B&S lawnmower engines and never have had this issue...
No one I know has ever had either... Incl the mechanics who do said inspections... [And in line vehicles] 
Beginning to sound like a 'how to hook up a genny thread'... lol |
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Posted: 9/7/2017 5:49:03 PM EDT
[#25]
No GA aircraft engine is torn down once a year for inspection. On almost all aircraft engines, you can tell what you need to know about the engine from looking at the spark plugs, and running a compression test. Since having a sudden engine stoppage in your Bugsmasher is different from having the same event with your Weedeater, there's no need to pay particular attention to small engines run on 100LL. I've run aircraft on 100LL for 20 years, and 2 and 4 stroke small engines on it for 15 years. No problems with the engines. If you're really worried about lead, use tricresyl phosphate in your leaded gas. My compressions went up to 80/80, 80/80, 78/80 and 80/80. No kidding. Metals are all excellent.
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Posted: 9/7/2017 5:51:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No GA aircraft engine is torn down once a year for inspection. On almost all aircraft engines, you can tell what you need to know about the engine from looking at the spark plugs, and running a compression test. Since having a sudden engine stoppage in your Bugsmasher is different from having the same event with your Weedeater, there's no need to pay particular attention to small engines run on 100LL. I've run aircraft on 100LL for 20 years, and 2 and 4 stroke small engines on it for 15 years. No problems with the engines. If you're really worried about lead, use tricresyl phosphate in your leaded gas. My compressions went up to 80/80, 80/80, 78/80 and 80/80. No kidding. Metals are all excellent. 
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Posted: 9/7/2017 6:01:00 PM EDT
[#27]
I just rotated a Jerry can that sat at least 3 years with Stabil and it looked fine. This time I didn't bother, given that the conventional wisdom is that it is not needed in a properly sealed can. I also only rotate one can at a time so if the gas is off it is only 25% of the tank.
I will say if you try to fill your Jerry can as much as possible to avoid airspace, and tilt the can to do so, remember that you did that when it is time to open them or it might spill. |
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Posted: 9/8/2017 10:21:15 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
can one just go to the local airpark and fill-er-up? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just run 100LL in all of my engines where there are no catalytic converters so that I don't have to worry about it. It costs a little more but it is worth it to me. Ours is a small airport though. |
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Posted: 9/8/2017 10:25:44 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is 100LL? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I just run 100LL in all of my engines where there are no catalytic converters so that I don't have to worry about it. It costs a little more but it is worth it to me. 100LL is 100 octane low-lead gasoline and is used mainly in small airplanes. A former friend of mine does restorations on Navion's and was the one that clued me into using it for small engines (both 2 and 4 stroke). It has a shelf life measured in decades. |
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Posted: 9/8/2017 12:26:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Interesting. I've always used Stabil in the stored gas but never had any issues. I only store non-ethanol gas. Many gas stations sell it around here.
I had two 5 gallon cans sitting with gas for about 7 years (forgot I had them). The gas was treated with Stabil. I ran it thought my lawn mover with no issues. It smelled and looked ok. Some of that gas wan in the lawn mower for 5-6 months, during winter storage and caused no issues at all. On the other hand, my neighbor had major issues with his small engines, such as gummed up carburators, seals and hoses falling apart. He did not know about ethanol gas problems. He started using treated, non-ethanol gas and the problems went away. I've also used Pri-G. For some reason, it caused major rust issues in the metal gas cans. The metal lids were covered with a thick layer of rust. This happened to gas purchased at 2 different gas stations, about a year apart. Since then, I started adding some Stabil 360 to the gas stored in metal cans. |
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Posted: 9/8/2017 12:28:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@buckshot_jim 100LL is 100 octane low-lead gasoline and is used mainly in small airplanes. A former friend of mine does restorations on Navion's and was the one that clued me into using it for small engines (both 2 and 4 stroke). It has a shelf life measured in decades when stored properly (like nearly all other fuels). |
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Posted: 9/8/2017 12:28:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Indeed. I bit of Seafoam is good as well to get the generator going for the hurricane season too. Cleaned it up nice and purs like a kittah. |
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Posted: 9/8/2017 12:44:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hummm... Is there an STC for that chemical alteration... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No GA aircraft engine is torn down once a year for inspection. On almost all aircraft engines, you can tell what you need to know about the engine from looking at the spark plugs, and running a compression test. Since having a sudden engine stoppage in your Bugsmasher is different from having the same event with your Weedeater, there's no need to pay particular attention to small engines run on 100LL. I've run aircraft on 100LL for 20 years, and 2 and 4 stroke small engines on it for 15 years. No problems with the engines. If you're really worried about lead, use tricresyl phosphate in your leaded gas. My compressions went up to 80/80, 80/80, 78/80 and 80/80. No kidding. Metals are all excellent. |
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Posted: 9/8/2017 5:37:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
It's crap! I just rebuilt/cleaned a carb on my big generator. It was gummed up with orangish crap that came from stabil-real gas is not orange. the gen came with a house I bought, tested it 6 years ago, added new gas+ new cutoff valve. couple years later, worked fine. (ETA I ran/changed gas-not just flipped it on for a few minutes if you ASSumed that then you were wrong) 1.5 years ago before cane season, tested the gen -little rough but changed gas and it ran fine- thought I would use stabil because it was was in the genny vs gas cans bad idea. The two seals in the gas cap were destroyed, and the carb was gummed up. Seals could have been anything but the crap in the carb was the stabil. dont use that crap. ETA for the idiots that assumed I left the gas in there- It was changed out/ran to test it was not 6yo gas
Ive highlighted the parts for the non grade school level readers - Did you turn the petcock to the carb off before it sat? |
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Posted: 9/8/2017 8:18:48 PM EDT
[#35]
I have used Stabil for a very long time.
5 year old gas in a sealed can with Stabil = no problems what so ever. "The two seals in the gas cap were destroyed, and the carb was gummed up", Are you sure it was ethanol free..? That's what ethanol will do.. |
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Posted: 9/9/2017 11:36:37 AM EDT
[#36]
I've been using stabil for years with no issue but I run my generators every month for about 10-minutes under load.
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Posted: 9/9/2017 9:39:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have 2 cans of untreated gas that is 2 years old. Any ideas? |
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Posted: 9/12/2017 9:32:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1... I run the tank AND carb dry... Been doing this periodically with my generator for 12 years. It usually starts on the first pull! I live in SE Florida and was without power for 38 hours as a result of Hurricane Irma. My 12 year old generator started on the first pull and ran for 38 hours continuously without a single problem. Before I store her, will run a gallon of Stabil-ized gasoline thru her and run the tank dry. I'll then wait a minute and pull the cord again - the engine will usually start and run for another few minutes. When it stops the second time, I'll wait another minute and pull the cord again - the engine will usually start and run for less than a minute. After that, I drain the oil and replace with new before storage. In terms of "routine maintenance", I used to do it quarterly, then every 6 months... My routine now is to do the 1 gallon of double Stabilized gasoline - run dry as described above, change the oil and store until the next run in about 1 year. I know that a year sounds like a long interval but it has been working for me for the last 7 years or so. |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 9:44:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Bump!
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Posted: 11/11/2017 9:56:37 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Addendum: I live in SE Florida and was without power for 38 hours as a result of Hurricane Irma. My 12 year old generator started on the first pull and ran for 38 hours continuously without a single problem. Before I store her, will run a gallon of Stabil-ized gasoline thru her and run the tank dry. I'll then wait a minute and pull the cord again - the engine will usually start and run for another few minutes. When it stops the second time, I'll wait another minute and pull the cord again - the engine will usually start and run for less than a minute. After that, I drain the oil and replace with new before storage. In terms of "routine maintenance", I used to do it quarterly, then every 6 months... My routine now is to do the 1 gallon of double Stabilized gasoline - run dry as described above, change the oil and store until the next run in about 1 year. I know that a year sounds like a long interval but it has been working for me for the last 7 years or so. You're saying that you store your engines with no gas and no snake oil! Perfect! |
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Posted: 11/11/2017 11:41:34 PM EDT
[#41]
got out my leaf blower a couple of weeks ago. it had not been started since i did a cleanup blow in springtime, 6 months back or so...
two pulls, up and running no problem. BP station gas ("plus" grade = 89 RON) plus Stabil per label dosage. ar-jedi 
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