Posted: 10/30/2016 10:58:36 AM EDT
|
I know the first gen Powerwall was overall deemed to be too expensive for what you get, but with the announcement of the Powerwall 2 it might be worth another look. $5500 per and the specs are below, I'm sure you can still build cheaper, but for the solar experts. With the inverter and size how's it stack up?
Mounting: Wall or Floor Mounted, Indoor/Outdoor Inverter: Fully integrated Tesla inverter Energy: 14 kWh Power: 5 kW continuous, 7 kW peak Round Trip Efficiency: 89% for AC Powerwall, 91.8% for DC Powerwall Operating Temperature Range: –20°C to 50°C (–4°F to 122°F) Warranty: Unlimited cycles for up to 10 years Dimensions: 1150 mm x 755 mm x 155 mm (45.3 in x 29.7 in x 6.1 in) Weight: 122 kg (269 lbs) Specs |
|
If you go to the actual Telsa website it has a "calculator" to determine how many powerwalls you'd need..... it asks if you have solar, how many rooms, and if you're looking to covers the electrical needs of the entire house. Also at the bottom is says
"Your path off grid Combine solar and one or more Powerwalls to power your home independently from the utility grid." So they are marketing is as an off grid item |
|
The Tesla's Powerwall 2 is unobtrusive and has good specs at a surprisingly attractive price.
Now if they can just do the same with their Solar Roof. Anyone care to guess what 100 sq-meter of the slate roof will cost? 
|
|
Energy storage, much like solar, is going to come down to commodity pricing with rare exceptions. $/KWH
Sexy / Compact will sell to some, but for most it'll be a pile of boring lead acid batteries until something changes. I also am cautious that all these batteries floating around will be the next major environmental oops. |
| Its only a matter of time before we start seeing more solutions like this. The more demand the faster it will evolve, it just needs to hit the point of no return where its like buying an appliance or accessory for your house vs. a car payment. I would consider something like this when it comes down to the 2k~ish mark but even 5k is to much for me and my family right now. |
|
Quoted:
Energy storage, much like solar, is going to come down to commodity pricing with rare exceptions. $/KWH Sexy / Compact will sell to some, but for most it'll be a pile of boring lead acid batteries until something changes. I also am cautious that all these batteries floating around will be the next major environmental oops. According to some pundits, Musk is already on track to gobble up the entire world's production of Li-Ion cells - just for his vehicles. Even if most residential users went with Lead-Acid batteries instead, there probably isn't enough lead on the entire planet to meet the demand. |
| unlike a phone being rushed to market and trying to be crammed into a tiny package or a hoverboard that is some random company, I'd be pretty confident Telsa took the time to ensure there is enough protection built into them that it's extremely unlikely they'd cause fire issues.... I sure there is some risk but everything has some risk. Also I'm sure they will get cheaper and more capacity every year just like all technology but for me hopefully I'll be jumping into solar mid next year so it would either be something traditional or something like this..... if this isn't too much more expensive I'm very interested, one thing that seems like a huge plus is unlimited cycles and 10 year warranty. Assuming they stuck by their warranty that's ten years of protection. |
|
Quoted:
I think I am going to sit back and watch this for a couple of years. I am getting wary after the hoverboards and Samsung incidents. we have been using li-ion batteries for years. they are what powers every laptop ever made. personally i have been using them for longer than i can remember and have never had a cell vent or even get that warm while in use or charging. |
| Not directly related but anyone that's dealt with the tax credit for stuff like this.... can items be on different invoices and be combined for the credit? Mean could I buy this from Telsa, and the hardware and panels from somewhere else and apply both towards getting the credit? So say $5000 from company x and $5000 from company y.... can I submit $10000 to get back the 30% credit or does it all have to be on one invoice? |
|
Quoted:
Not directly related but anyone that's dealt with the tax credit for stuff like this.... can items be on different invoices and be combined for the credit? Mean could I buy this from Telsa, and the hardware and panels from somewhere else and apply both towards getting the credit? So say $5000 from company x and $5000 from company y.... can I submit $10000 to get back the 30% credit or does it all have to be on one invoice? Yes. |
|
Quoted:
That's around a dozen golf cart batteries (street price: under $100 each). (OTOH, good luck squeezing a dozen golf cart batteries into a 45.3" x 29.7" x 6.1" package!  )Quoted:
Quoted:
Energy: 14 kWh That's around a dozen golf cart batteries (street price: under $100 each). (OTOH, good luck squeezing a dozen golf cart batteries into a 45.3" x 29.7" x 6.1" package! )A dozen golf cart batteries at 200 ah each assumes you can discharge them 100%. But, in order to have a decent battery life, you have to reduce the discharge level to 30-50%. Depth of discharge 100% 150–200 cycles 50% 400–500 cycles 30% 1,000 and more cycles Now you need at least 24-36 golf cart batteries at $100-200 each. Plus it includes the 5kw inverter and charge controller ($3000-4000). http://sunelec.com/inverters/inverter-chargers/48v-inverter-chargers/schneider-conext-xw-5548-5-5kw-120-240-volt-inverter-charger-48v.html 10 year life and unlimited cycles warrantied. No battery maintenance required (checking and adding water). Works in a wide range of tempuratures. |
| Now that's the information I like hearing (both posts)...... I like a challenge and enjoy new projects but honestly with something like that I'd be willing to pay a $1000 or $2000 premium to have more of a "plug and play" setup that doesn't need a lot of upkeep. Plus I have confidence Telsa will honor their warranty more easily than others, would probably almost be a scenario I'd hope it would take a shit around the 9 year mark :) |
|
Quoted:
Yes. Quoted:
Quoted:
Not directly related but anyone that's dealt with the tax credit for stuff like this.... can items be on different invoices and be combined for the credit? Mean could I buy this from Telsa, and the hardware and panels from somewhere else and apply both towards getting the credit? So say $5000 from company x and $5000 from company y.... can I submit $10000 to get back the 30% credit or does it all have to be on one invoice? Yes. He meant, "yes, it can be on different invoices". |
|
Quoted:
Now that's the information I like hearing (both posts)...... I like a challenge and enjoy new projects but honestly with something like that I'd be willing to pay a $1000 or $2000 premium to have more of a "plug and play" setup that doesn't need a lot of upkeep. Plus I have confidence Telsa will honor their warranty more easily than others, would probably almost be a scenario I'd hope it would take a shit around the 9 year mark :) Comparing the Powerwall to Golf Cart batteries is apples and oranges. One is high voltage DC and the other isn't. The equipment we use is totally different. And in the case of the Powerall, the choices are fewer... a bunch fewer. Warranty is a matter of time. There's been some great products with great warranties that ended up not being worth a shit because the company went out of business. Battery warranties are difficult. Mostly because the end user has some much effect on the equation. Kind of like driving a new car around pegged to the red line - warranty? But most name brand battery manufacturers back their stuff. Because it's easy to change brands if you feel someone let you down - and they know that. As for which is best... there are Li Ion fanboys and Lead Acid fanboys. I'm neither. In the end, the life cycle cost of of the energy for both Lead Acid and Li Ion is about the same - approx 21.5 cents/kwh (based on some research Solar Energy International did a couple of years ago and presented at a conference I attended). Li Ion has a high upfront cost, Lead Acid doesn't. You can buy a 6V golf cart battery almost anywhere because golf carts are one of the largest consumers of deep cycle batteries on the plant... Li Ion not so much. You can recycle a lead acid battery easy. We'll have to see about Li Ion. Both will work and both will have about the same expenses for the lifetime of the battery, if properly designed. That part is what gets screwed up the most... and it's usually not the installers fault. If you want longevity and lowest lifetime cost, go with Nickel-Iron. Just pepper your angus when you get ready to buy in. As with most anything, safety is good unless the user is stupid. We can't fix that. |
|
Quoted:
A dozen golf cart batteries at 200 ah each assumes you can discharge them 100%. But, in order to have a decent battery life, you have to reduce the discharge level to 30-50%. Depth of discharge 100% 150–200 cycles 50% 400–500 cycles 30% 1,000 and more cycles Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Energy: 14 kWh That's around a dozen golf cart batteries (street price: under $100 each). (OTOH, good luck squeezing a dozen golf cart batteries into a 45.3" x 29.7" x 6.1" package! )A dozen golf cart batteries at 200 ah each assumes you can discharge them 100%. But, in order to have a decent battery life, you have to reduce the discharge level to 30-50%. Depth of discharge 100% 150–200 cycles 50% 400–500 cycles 30% 1,000 and more cycles Trojan rates the life expectancy (cycle life) of their golf cart batteries at around 800 full (100% discharge) cycles. At 80% discharge depth, it increases to several times that value. 220 AH x 6 volts (nominal) x 80% discharge depth x 12 batteries = 12.7 KWH That's close enough for gubment work... |