Quoted:


For being such a survivalist you sure talk like a socialist...  

"What do the peasants know?  How dare they stand together and vote against the all powerful!"  

Bigger government isn't always the answer...  Everyone is free to have their own opinion, and I respect and understand other viewpoints, but when the majority holds the same opinion, is it still "wrong?"

Maybe the people are sick of their country not being able to control the influx of mass immigration

Maybe the people of UK are sick of paying for more then they get

Quoted:


For being such a survivalist you sure talk like a socialist...  

"What do the peasants know?  How dare they stand together and vote against the all powerful!"  

Bigger government isn't always the answer...  Everyone is free to have their own opinion, and I respect and understand other viewpoints, but when the majority holds the same opinion, is it still "wrong?"

Maybe the people are sick of their country not being able to control the influx of mass immigration

Maybe the people of UK are sick of paying for more then they get

Quoted:

Be made an example of in economic and political terms, as in showing that its better to be in the EU than out of it. You cant honestly expect to break up the EU, causing the greatest crisis the union has ever seen, and then turn around and go “ok, now lets make a trade deal, and make it a good one”. Its just not going to happen and its ridiculous to expect otherwise. Why on earth would the EU trade favourably with the UK, and how is that fair to the countries that are still in it? Its all pretty logical really. The UKs position was in fact the best of all EU countries. First, it got to keep its own currency, which is key to managing your own economy and something all other EU members wish they had. Second, they have a natural barrier against illegal immigration. Most of the immigrants in UK in fact get there legally or are allowed to get there illegally, they don’t just swim across the canal. The reason for this is that all European countries including the UK need immigrants. Their birth rates simply aren’t high enough and without a 2.1 rate a country is dead. That at least is something business owners agree on, the need for labour. Keep in mind that in spite of all the anti socialis

t rant, UK is one of the most socialized countries in the EU. The amount of people on benefits their entire life is amazing and you often see 13 or 14 year olds get pregnant just to get their own council house or a bigger one for the extended family.
Basically, the majority in this case voted for something that wasn’t in their best interest, simply because they let the social engineering form their opinion. Don’t get me wrong, I was hoping for a Brexit because I believe the EU is far better off without them, but it was still stupid of them to leave. Then again, now a few bankers and corporations will get their way without the EU getting in the middle. Keep in mind that the majority voted for Obama, twice, and I doubt that was a good idea.
The people of UK were getting far more than they realized. Many of them were regretting their Leave vote literally hours after the referendum and this is nothing compared to the next two years ahead of them.

For whatever its worth I’m more of a center, conservative libertarian but I’m not offended by being called a socialist. I’ll take a honest, hard working socialist that is willing to listen to people in other political sectors with an opened mind and truly looking to improve the quality of life of those he represents over a corrupt, thieving politician that claims to stand on the right and represent traditional Christian values, all while looting public funds and keeping several mistresses.
FerFAL

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I’ll take a honest, hard working socialist that is willing to listen to people in other political sectors with an opened mind and truly looking to improve the quality of life of those he represents over a corrupt, thieving politician that claims to stand on the right and represent traditional Christian values, all while looting public funds and keeping several mistresses.
FerFAL

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So there are no corrupt, thieving socialist politicians that loot public funds and keep several mistresses?

Quoted:

I've stated in many of the Trump threads that my support for him isn't as much about Trump "the man" as it is about what his campaign represents: citizens exercising their rights and votes to rein in a government that is badly out of control.  Voters in both countries (and likely more to follow) are rediscovering that that they actually do have power, if they'll only choose to exercise it.  BREXIT reinforces this... and that's a good thing for all of us.

There is, of course, a price to pay for all this, and it's not going to be a smooth ride in either the UK's case or our own.  But in both cases it's better than the alternative.

Why is this relevant to SF?  Many of the issues at stake rate pretty high on people's emotion meters, and both sides will fight hard to defend their viewpoints.  There will likely - and literally - be blood in the streets before it's all over, and a wise man will be prepared for the worst... even if the reality turns out to be something less.

Quoted:

Dont you ask yourself though, what kind of man you want for POTUS? Ive learned that the only way to have good politics is zero tolerance with corruption. Trump just doesnt qualify (and of course neither does Hillary)
This will probably get blocked as not relevant to survival. I can think of few things that are more relevant though. The way people simply lack critical thinking and are influenced by the elite is terrible.
FerFAL

Quoted:

Dont you ask yourself though, what kind of man you want for POTUS? Ive learned that the only way to have good politics is zero tolerance with corruption. Trump just doesnt qualify (and of course neither does Hillary)
This will probably get blocked as not relevant to survival. I can think of few things that are more relevant though. The way people simply lack critical thinking and are influenced by the elite is terrible.
FerFAL

Quoted:

Do you have an example of Trump being corrupt?  At least any more so than any other political candidate we've had in recent history?

Although I'll say again this election is more about the movement than the candidate, I actually don't dislike Trump.  To be sure, the media does their best to paint an ugly picture of him, but from what I've seen most reports from people who actually know the man are overwhelmingly positive.

But to answer the question "What kind of man do I want for POTUS?":  One who will effectively combat political correctness, illegal immigration, gun control, and fiscal irresponsibility, among others.   Trump is the only candidate in the entire lineup that has demonstrated - not just stated - that he can do that.

Apologies to OP and SF for dragging this off track.  It wasn't my intention to inject a political thread in SF, beyond the relationship I noted in my first response.  I'd suggest we open a thread in GD or P&A, but it'd probably be pointless... these debates are destined to go on at least until, if not well after, the General.

Quoted:

If you think Trump isnt corrupt then I'm sure I could show you a clip of him killing babies with an axe and you'd still find a reasonable explanation for it. Notice how even yourself claim iright after your question that its about the movemnet not the candidate. How can electing a candidate not be about the candidate you are electing? That has logical fail all over it.
We'll just diasgree on this one. The sad part though is that no matter who wins I at least dont see much hope.
FerFAL

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You make assertions that he's corrupt but then no evidence. Produce evidence of.something.or your opinion means nothing.

Quoted:


Im all for that.
Politicas are important and I cant explain how important it is to be able to talk about these things like respectful, rational people in spite of the differences.
Now, specificly Brexit and survival related:
1) Inflation. alreadty happening. The pound dorped around 10% which in Argentina we laugh about but in any half serious conutry its a diasaster.
This means prices of pretty much everything will go up and of course the gov. will do everythign to cover it up.
2) Recesion. Yes, when you leave the largest economy in the planet thats what happens even if oyu are UK. Also, dont forget that UK wont be Uk for long. Scotland is doign everything to elave ASAP and Northern Irelnad isnt far behind.
3)Social violence. Already pretty volatile. Dont forget an MP, Jo cox was murder recently, people have been stabbed during votation (remember what I said moments ago about it being important to talk politics like respectful, lelve headed people?)
4)One more thing. Remember me rambling about passports, and some people that know a lot more about survival than stupid little me laughing about it. Well, yes, passports. Theres several articels about people in UK looking to get their EU passport which they WILL lose (that's a done deal). What Americans may not understand is that the EU works not that different form USA and the different states. Especially young people, they travel a lot to differnt EU countries to study and for work. Its VERY common, almost as much as people traveling between States in US. Those that want to keep the ability to do so are looking for options. Some of them I wrote about before here. In the case of UK many have Irish relatives which is an option. Theres a lot of people right now in UK, born in Northern Ireland, that are looking to get their Irish passport (EU).
5)Drop in the price of property. Some say 20% or more.
Overall its not an easy situation. People that wanted Brexit got just that and its great, but many had no idea at all of the consequences of their vote.
FerFAL

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Dont you ask yourself though, what kind of man you want for POTUS? Ive learned that the only way to have good politics is zero tolerance with corruption. Trump just doesnt qualify (and of course neither does Hillary)
This will probably get blocked as not relevant to survival. I can think of few things that are more relevant though. The way people simply lack critical thinking and are influenced by the elite is terrible.
FerFAL

Quoted:


For whatever its worth I’m more of a center, conservative libertarian but I’m not offended by being called a socialist.
FerFAL

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All great points and I'm indifferent to the Brexit issue but I can sympathize with those who support and voted for it.  Of all your points, time will be the factor.  We all know any major political changes affect the markets and currency value, what's important is their plan forward and there are numerous opportunities to turn it around.  I don't think you can really make a good assessment for at least five years...unfortunately, people have no patience and if devalued currency, inflation and recession continue too long the social issues will explode.  The EU isn't a bad thing by design, but as with most designs bureaucrats and elites run the system and push the policies.  When the system loses upward mobility, poverty rises, middle class shrinks, liberties are curtailed for safety while crime increases...those systems and governments will collapse.  Brexit could be a strategy to avoid that crash or it may just be a catalyst to a larger implosion.  Sovereignty and national identity are not bad things and the EU has been pushing policies diminishing those specifically.  

Who knows what will happen over the next five years, but I fear much of what you just identified will occur even if just the short term (best case).  With control of their own borders (which I think is a good thing), my only fear is the rift will grow with non-assimilated immigrants and that tends to get violent and ugly.  

ROCK6

Quoted:

I agree, which is why I haven't responded.  Earlier this morning I actually tried to cut and paste the last few posts into a thread in GD to continue the discussion, but apparently you can't include quotes in a "New Topic" (?).  Ultimately these arguments are fruitless (if not destructive) anyway, so I didn't pursue it any further.

Make Survival Forum Great Again!    

Quoted:


Identifying yourself as a center, conservative libertarian on one hand but OK with being called a socialist on the other is a bit bi-polar isn't it?

Quoted:

Not at all.
Me “not offended by being called a socialist” doesn’t make me a socialist. I just means I have thicker skin and don’t get angry at trolls that use as an insult a word they don’t understand.
No, I don’t believe the government should own and control all means of production. Then again, “socialism” has changed today into something pretty broad. It’s used to describe everything for Venezuela to Norway. Some use it to describe anyone that isn’t a Trump fanatic. I don’t waste a second of my time with such retards.
FerFAL

Quoted:

Correct, thats why I think socialism is a bit too broad a term. Certian key strategic assets I believe the government should own, most of all the monopoly over money should be of exclusive property of the people aka government. This woudl of course be within a transparetn gov. in which the gov. actually represnets the people rather than corporations, which is rarely the case. The reason why we have the problem we have now is becuase private corporations, private banks, OWN the money, thus enslaving the people that use it. You need either goods or labour to earn money, they only have to punch in more zeros into a computer. Even better would behaving a gold or silver standard in which case NO ONE owns the money we all use.
An important conversation but I think we're getting off topic.
As for Brexit, the pound kepts dropping today.
My brother just called me from London. He's a top manager in one of the biggest banks in the world. Before Brexit he sounded worried, now he's dowright pissed. It seems that many in the financial sector didnt expect such consequences. That's pretty niave/stupid if you ask me. Then again, some people called in yesterday asking if they could change their votes and 3 million want a second referendum. So yes, people are indeed stupid.
FerFAL