Posted: 1/21/2015 9:03:39 PM EDT
| I will have a full 55 gallon drum of gasoline as of next month. If I siphon out 10 or 15 gallons each month and replace it, would that work to keep it fairly fresh over the year or two I plan to store it before a full rotation? |
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I will have a full 55 gallon drum of gasoline as of next month. If I siphon out 10 or 15 gallons each month and replace it, would that work to keep it fairly fresh over the year or two I plan to store it before a full rotation? I would probably try to use it all up. I have two empty and pretty clean 55 gallon oil drums I have been thinking about doing this with, problem is, a pin hole could be a costly mistake, if not dangerous. I might take the leap and clean them up this summer and fill one with gas and try to do some full rotation. Using a vehicle in the rotation process would be labor intensive but would really allow you to keep fresh gas in the barrel. 55 gallons post SHTF would really be irreplaceable and valuable. I currently keep about 25 gallons on hand and rotate it through by using it in my small equipment, ATVs and snowmobiles. Decisions... Decisions... |
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I would probably try to use it all up. I have two empty and pretty clean 55 gallon oil drums I have been thinking about doing this with, problem is, a pin hole could be a costly mistake, if not dangerous. I might take the leap and clean them up this summer and fill one with gas and try to do some full rotation. Using a vehicle in the rotation process would be labor intensive but would really allow you to keep fresh gas in the barrel. 55 gallons post SHTF would really be irreplaceable and valuable. I currently keep about 25 gallons on hand and rotate it through by using it in my small equipment, ATVs and snowmobiles. Decisions... Decisions... Quoted:
Quoted:
I will have a full 55 gallon drum of gasoline as of next month. If I siphon out 10 or 15 gallons each month and replace it, would that work to keep it fairly fresh over the year or two I plan to store it before a full rotation? I would probably try to use it all up. I have two empty and pretty clean 55 gallon oil drums I have been thinking about doing this with, problem is, a pin hole could be a costly mistake, if not dangerous. I might take the leap and clean them up this summer and fill one with gas and try to do some full rotation. Using a vehicle in the rotation process would be labor intensive but would really allow you to keep fresh gas in the barrel. 55 gallons post SHTF would really be irreplaceable and valuable. I currently keep about 25 gallons on hand and rotate it through by using it in my small equipment, ATVs and snowmobiles. Decisions... Decisions... Keep the barrels sealed from ambient in a sensible manner and keep the gas for years, w/ alcohol will be even better, as any moisture that may condense inside from opening the barrel from time to time will be absorbed into the alcohol. The -little- moisture likely to be absorbed will NOT phase separate the fuel, as many uninformed folks think. 
As far as a pin hole in a barrel, you could make a simple PVC adapter and pressurize the barrel and use soapy water to look for any leaks. If a pinhole is found, there are ways to repair it simply. Or buy another barrel. As I posted in my barrel stove thread, almost new barrels that held Mobil 1 motor oil and were in perfect shape only cost $10 each. An amazing storage value. Contact your local bulk fuel and petroleum distributor. |
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I would probably try to use it all up. I have two empty and pretty clean 55 gallon oil drums I have been thinking about doing this with, problem is, a pin hole could be a costly mistake, if not dangerous. I might take the leap and clean them up this summer and fill one with gas and try to do some full rotation. Using a vehicle in the rotation process would be labor intensive but would really allow you to keep fresh gas in the barrel. 55 gallons post SHTF would really be irreplaceable and valuable. I currently keep about 25 gallons on hand and rotate it through by using it in my small equipment, ATVs and snowmobiles. Decisions... Decisions... Quoted:
Quoted:
I will have a full 55 gallon drum of gasoline as of next month. If I siphon out 10 or 15 gallons each month and replace it, would that work to keep it fairly fresh over the year or two I plan to store it before a full rotation? I would probably try to use it all up. I have two empty and pretty clean 55 gallon oil drums I have been thinking about doing this with, problem is, a pin hole could be a costly mistake, if not dangerous. I might take the leap and clean them up this summer and fill one with gas and try to do some full rotation. Using a vehicle in the rotation process would be labor intensive but would really allow you to keep fresh gas in the barrel. 55 gallons post SHTF would really be irreplaceable and valuable. I currently keep about 25 gallons on hand and rotate it through by using it in my small equipment, ATVs and snowmobiles. Decisions... Decisions... I have an additional 40 gallons in my cans. I will have just shy of 95 gallons total to work through. I saw one guy here said not to use plastic barrels but no one gave an explanation. I've had gas in my plastic drum for over 2 years after y2k. It all burned fine. |
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gas station don't drain before every shipment.. Ideal, probably not, but I basically do this as well. True, but they "rotate" their regular grade on a weekly basis too. And I would bet they are removing a lot more than 1/4 of the fuel in the tank before refilling it as well. There is definitely a way to calculate the "average age" of the fuel when rotating this way but it seems silly to me to even try unless you're really just that much of a geek. (FWIW, I'm curious now so I might just run some numbers and figure out a formula). Why not get another barrel, fill one, wait a bit, fill the other. After the first has been stored at the limits of the time you're comfortable storing the fuel, then start to empty the first barrel into your vehicles. Once empty start to refill it again. This way, even if a disaster that required you to dip into your fuel stash hit right on the day you're out of gas in the barrel and your vehicles are getting low and you plan to make a fuel run, you still have AT LEAST 55 gallons still at home and you get 100% rotation of the fuel. |
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I saw one guy here said not to use plastic barrels but no one gave an explanation. I've had gas in my plastic drum for over 2 years after y2k. It all burned fine. I can't say why that poster said that but I can relate my personal experience. Plastic barrels are much more prone to leakage in several ways. #1 an incompatible plastic can deteriorate and fail (but only a dummy picks an incompatible plastic to store fuel), #2 Sunlight can cause deterioration and failure (not a problem if they aren't exposed to sunlight), #3, and most likely culprit, the bungs just don't seal the same as metal bungs. The lids, the threaded bungs, etc are all prone to warping over time, pressure, exposure, and causing seal problems. I'm sure this varies with design but I used plastic 18 gallon barrels designed for strong industrial acids (what I would hope would be some of the best sealing plastic drums available) for a while and found that I had about a 60% success in maintaining a tight seal. The worst culprit "lost" about a gallon of gas over 1 year of storage. That's the top 5% most volatile compounds and could potentially effect the usability of the gas (it didn't in my case). |
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I can't say why that poster said that but I can relate my personal experience. Plastic barrels are much more prone to leakage in several ways. #1 an incompatible plastic can deteriorate and fail (but only a dummy picks an incompatible plastic to store fuel), #2 Sunlight can cause deterioration and failure (not a problem if they aren't exposed to sunlight), #3, and most likely culprit, the bungs just don't seal the same as metal bungs. The lids, the threaded bungs, etc are all prone to warping over time, pressure, exposure, and causing seal problems. I'm sure this varies with design but I used plastic 18 gallon barrels designed for strong industrial acids (what I would hope would be some of the best sealing plastic drums available) for a while and found that I had about a 60% success in maintaining a tight seal. The worst culprit "lost" about a gallon of gas over 1 year of storage. That's the top 5% most volatile compounds and could potentially effect the usability of the gas (it didn't in my case). Quoted:
Quoted:
I saw one guy here said not to use plastic barrels but no one gave an explanation. I've had gas in my plastic drum for over 2 years after y2k. It all burned fine. I can't say why that poster said that but I can relate my personal experience. Plastic barrels are much more prone to leakage in several ways. #1 an incompatible plastic can deteriorate and fail (but only a dummy picks an incompatible plastic to store fuel), #2 Sunlight can cause deterioration and failure (not a problem if they aren't exposed to sunlight), #3, and most likely culprit, the bungs just don't seal the same as metal bungs. The lids, the threaded bungs, etc are all prone to warping over time, pressure, exposure, and causing seal problems. I'm sure this varies with design but I used plastic 18 gallon barrels designed for strong industrial acids (what I would hope would be some of the best sealing plastic drums available) for a while and found that I had about a 60% success in maintaining a tight seal. The worst culprit "lost" about a gallon of gas over 1 year of storage. That's the top 5% most volatile compounds and could potentially effect the usability of the gas (it didn't in my case). Like I said, I've used this barrel before. It held a cleaner before but it was well cleaned out before use and left to air out for months. I had no issues for 2 straight years. It sat empty for a long time. |
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True, but they "rotate" their regular grade on a weekly basis too. And I would bet they are removing a lot more than 1/4 of the fuel in the tank before refilling it as well. There is definitely a way to calculate the "average age" of the fuel when rotating this way but it seems silly to me to even try unless you're really just that much of a geek. (FWIW, I'm curious now so I might just run some numbers and figure out a formula). Why not get another barrel, fill one, wait a bit, fill the other. After the first has been stored at the limits of the time you're comfortable storing the fuel, then start to empty the first barrel into your vehicles. Once empty start to refill it again. This way, even if a disaster that required you to dip into your fuel stash hit right on the day you're out of gas in the barrel and your vehicles are getting low and you plan to make a fuel run, you still have AT LEAST 55 gallons still at home and you get 100% rotation of the fuel. Quoted:
Quoted:
gas station don't drain before every shipment.. Ideal, probably not, but I basically do this as well. True, but they "rotate" their regular grade on a weekly basis too. And I would bet they are removing a lot more than 1/4 of the fuel in the tank before refilling it as well. There is definitely a way to calculate the "average age" of the fuel when rotating this way but it seems silly to me to even try unless you're really just that much of a geek. (FWIW, I'm curious now so I might just run some numbers and figure out a formula). Why not get another barrel, fill one, wait a bit, fill the other. After the first has been stored at the limits of the time you're comfortable storing the fuel, then start to empty the first barrel into your vehicles. Once empty start to refill it again. This way, even if a disaster that required you to dip into your fuel stash hit right on the day you're out of gas in the barrel and your vehicles are getting low and you plan to make a fuel run, you still have AT LEAST 55 gallons still at home and you get 100% rotation of the fuel. If 1/4" isn't enough then how much to rotate to get reasonably fresh fuel at all times? |
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If 1/4" isn't enough then how much to rotate to get reasonably fresh fuel at all times? I didn't say 1/4 wasn't "enough", I was simply pointing out that it's not necessarily a good way to do things. "Enough" is very hard to quantify. I ran the numbers for 7 months of storage (6 rotations) rotating 25% of the fuel every month. On the day of the 7th rotation (before you actually rotate the fuel) there is still 17.8% of the original fuel in the tank, the average age of the fuel is approaching 3.5 months or about half of the time elapsed from the start. Definitely not a problem but you've gone through a lot of work to get to that point and still have 3.5 month old fuel. In that 6 rotations you've cycled through 1-1/2 times your storage vessel's capacity and to keep your fuel fresh you will have to cycle through it's capacity 3 times every year. Of course this doesn't account for the aging that takes place by breaking the seal every month (letting vapors out) and letting air in. ETA, of course this all assumes that you get thorough mixing of the new fuel as it's added to the old.... |
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No, it is not the best way.
Most importantly, you get a phenomenon called "tank stratification" where the compounds in the gas break down and settle at different levels. Gas stations don't encounter this because of the combination of tank design and the volume of change the tank undergoes. Small cans don't stratify because the small volume all breaks down at the same rate and the small amount of stratification is not noticeable. |
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Small cans don't stratify because the small volume all breaks down at the same rate and the small amount of stratification is not noticeable. I can't much on stratification, it's outside my knowledge level but if true, it probably also helps that small cans get agitated any time they are lifted, carried, poured, etc. A larger vessel that you siphon out of doesn't get this agitation and a siphon would be drawing fuel from the same stratification layer. |
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I can't much on stratification, it's outside my knowledge level but if true, it probably also helps that small cans get agitated any time they are lifted, carried, poured, etc. A larger vessel that you siphon out of doesn't get this agitation and a siphon would be drawing fuel from the same stratification layer. Quoted:
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Small cans don't stratify because the small volume all breaks down at the same rate and the small amount of stratification is not noticeable. I can't much on stratification, it's outside my knowledge level but if true, it probably also helps that small cans get agitated any time they are lifted, carried, poured, etc. A larger vessel that you siphon out of doesn't get this agitation and a siphon would be drawing fuel from the same stratification layer. There will be some agitation from pouring in new fuel. I can siphon from any part of the drum. |
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So aside from having a large tank it sounds like two gas docks would be the way to go... To bad they run several hundred each. The 55 gallon barrels I have are your run of the mill steel oil drum. I don't have a whole lot of out building space so I don't know if I am going to use them for gas.
Heck I cant even convince myself to buy nato style cans... I have been using box store style red plastic cans for almost a decade with little problem. Rotation is not a problem if I end up using the snowmobiles, Uses my whole cache of gas to fill them all.
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I don't rotate stuff each month. I can somewhat see doing it when seasons change because gas mixes can change depending on emissions of your area. Plus we have all heard about summer vs winter fuel. I have been thinking about a drum or two of fuel and I am going to rotate it all at once. Between vehicle fuel tanks and fuel cans I can have enough to empty a drum and refill a drum. To some extent I could have been dealing with the drum already and not able to rotate it all, so it does come down to how you do things. I am not really set up yet to deal with a whole drum of fuel in a consistant and safe manner. But it is coming soon. And this can make refilling a drum easy if I want to fill a drum in the pickup bed and drive it to the empty drum and siphon the drum in the bed of the truck right into the drum for storage. Not sure what locals will think let alone the laws so I will say I plan to consider some research on this before doing it. |
| I would advise against checking for leaks by pressure testing with compressed air, it can be very dangerous. If you feel you need to test for leaks you should consider hydrostatic testing. Water does not compress so if the drum ruptured you would only get wet instead of injured. |
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I would advise against checking for leaks by pressure testing with compressed air, it can be very dangerous. If you feel you need to test for leaks you should consider hydrostatic testing. Water does not compress so if the drum ruptured you would only get wet instead of injured. I agree. 
I should have said to pressurize the tank slightly, using a shop vac or other source ---that would pressurize the tank no more than -let's say, gasoline vapor on a warm day. |