Posted: 9/7/2014 1:44:13 PM EDT
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I was talking about this with my neighbor/friend a week or two ago. I had mentioned that, for a decent barrier during civil unrest, I was thinking about getting a few spools of concertina wire. He said he had been considering doing the same but instead he was thinking of going with an electric fence. I told him that I thought that was a bad idea because most of them are NOT the Jurassic Park kind that will fry you, rather they are meant to be irritating so the animal knows not to touch them. I also cited that my wife/son were recently nailed by one because some asshole at a farm they were at....during a kids festival....forgot to turn it off by the pony ride. And while it scared a 3 year old it just pissed off my wife pretty bad. But I digress...
So when talking about concertina wire, what are your thoughts? Good to have on hand or just an all-around stupid idea? Anyone have some? How do you use it (deploy, make an entry/exit point, collect it, store/dispose of it, etc.)? I think it would be good to have some for those situations where clearly diplomacy has failed and it's WROL with some identified aggressors that are close enough to pose a threat but not sure a force that it warrants leaving town to go to a BOL or living out of a vehicle for a while. I've seen what it can do to vehicles if you try to drive through it, which pretty much disables them (ex. tires, axles). Plus I'm not sure if it's concertina wire or razor wire but I know one of them is pretty much impossible to cut without getting whipped in the face/body with it. EDIT: Another thought I had was the downside that you will most likely be looked upon as a total kook by the rest of the neighborhood that are not preppers as well as possibly targeted by the bad guys as a place they might want to screw with. Plus lawsuits for injuries once normalcy returns. Again, thoughts? Thanks -Emt1581 |
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What size and type of area are you trying to protect? Assuming a house, doing true triple strand and securing with engineer stakes would take some serious time and effort if it is only you and another helper or two. You'd have to keep a couple pallets worth on hand to have enough to cover that size area.
However, if there were large amounts of displaced persons in the area (read unarmed) that would be an effective way to keep them away. However any determined foe can easily get through some c-wire with nothing more than some torn clothing. |
| Concertina wire is a wire obstacle. meaning, it slows you down, though it would really suck to get caught up in it. There are a few ways to breach it: 1. explosives like bangalores-probably not going to happen. 2.- deflation, meaning throwing something over it like wooden pallets, squishing it, and creating a passage point. This is easy to do unless it has been set up properly (and high enough that a wood pallet can't be thrown). 3.- cutting through with tools, with stealth. This is pretty easy in the dark if the wire isn't under observation. 4.- extraction. winches, tow straps, or similar are thrown into the wire, attached to a powerful vehicle, and hit the gas. Results will vary, depending on the proficiency of the person who set it up, with any of these methods. Also if someone accidentally walks into it and gets injured, you will be held responsible, which may be a concern. It will also attract a LOT of attention. The best use I've seen of concertina wire was inside of a building deployed down a stairway- it totally denied the use of that stairway, and no one knew it was there until we ran into it. |
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Quoted: Concertina wire is a wire obstacle. meaning, it slows you down, though it would really suck to get caught up in it. There are a few ways to breach it: 1. explosives like bangalores-probably not going to happen. 2.- deflation, meaning throwing something over it like wooden pallets, squishing it, and creating a passage point. This is easy to do unless it has been set up properly (and high enough that a wood pallet can't be thrown). 3.- cutting through with tools, with stealth. This is pretty easy in the dark if the wire isn't under observation. 4.- extraction. winches, tow straps, or similar are thrown into the wire, attached to a powerful vehicle, and hit the gas. Results will vary, depending on the proficiency of the person who set it up, with any of these methods. Also if someone accidentally walks into it and gets injured, you will be held responsible, which may be a concern. It will also attract a LOT of attention. The best use I've seen of concertina wire was inside of a building deployed down a stairway- it totally denied the use of that stairway, and no one knew it was there until we ran into it. Concertina wire depends entirely on how it is set up and how well maintained it is. If you don't want to watch it constantly, conceal it so others cannot easily see it. Places like inside bushes or in narrow gaps like the mentioned stairway deny access easily and without much risk of people planning to disable it until they're tangled in it. If possible, paint the wire the same color as the surroundings or in a dark black tone (it's a trick with the eye ignoring thin lines of black, think of looking through a black window screen vs a silver one), this will make it harder to spot by casual observers as they cruise around looking for places to hit. Running a big coil across your driveway is going to be spotted and countered much more easily than a few strands painted black/dark gray to blend in with the background. Running a length of razor wire across the top bar of chain link is also very effective (not in the angled brackets you see at industrial sites), as it is not spotted easily and people naturally grab the top bar when trying to climb over (thus grabbing and putting full weight on the razor wire). As mentioned, there is the risk of liability following an event, although depending on your views (such as not letting any threats tangled in the wire live to talk about it) this may not be a big issue. Prior to an event, state and local laws may limit how and where you employ wire (such as on top of fences at a minimum of 6' off the ground). |
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I read an account of some British Contractors in Iraq once and they said part of their defense plan for their safe house involved a coil of c-wire at the top of a flight of stairs. One end was secured at the top and the other end was tied to a weight. The plan was to get everyone to the roof and chuck the weight down the stairs dragging the wire after it creating an effective hasty obstacle.
That said I haven't seen any concertina wire since I left Iraq, where do you even buy it in the states. Even home depot stopped selling barbed wire in my area. |
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Unless the concertina wire in installed by an expert I am walking over while barely slowing down. You would have to make it a minimum of two roles on the bottom with one role on top installed with pickets and barbed wire tightened in the centers. Even then I am through in 10 minutes with a pair of dykes as long as there is no over watch on it. It might slow down the non military types though. More likely a waste of time and resources. -markl32, former 12B Combat Engineer. |
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Quoted: Never mind amazon has it for $20 a roll. Go figure. What Amazon is selling is basically just a 18" diameter big slinky with barbs on the Slinkys wire. Very easy to defeat with one cut of a wire cutter. It is usually what you see at the top of chain link fences in bad commercial/industrial areas. Their price is fair at $20 for a 50' roll, but as you can see, the shipping sucks. I wasn't in the military, so I don't know what you guys had, but most of the pictures I have seen of it deployed "over there" looked a lot bigger and usually it was tied back to itself in multiple places making it less like a slinky and more like a maze. If you want to get some razor wire/razor ribbon/barb tape/concertina wire locally, look up a wholesale fence supply in your area. They may sell to individuals, they may not. I ran one for 20 years. Here are some basics. The razor wire/barb tape/concertina wire is made of a coil wire that is wrapped with a metal strip that has the barbs made in. The coil wire can be galvanized or stainless, the metal strip can also be galvanized or stainless. The cheapest version is galvanized on both of them. The single coil stuff, like a slinky, is available in 18" diameter, 24" diameter, and 30" diameter. IF a wholesaler is carrying it, they normally will only have the 18" or 24". If you want the bigger stuff, or you want the stuff that is attached back to itself, you will have to order it from the manufacturer. Unless a wholesaler got caught with a cancelled order, they rarely would actually have any of the bigger or more complicated stuff. I would be remiss if I didn't mention that deploying this stuff before SHTF is not a good idea. Even at the top of a fence it is going to drive your insurance rates up if your agent sees it. In normal times it must be at least high enough on a fence that no one can accidentally touch it. Now of course come SHTF, that goes out the window and who cares. If you want the name of a fence wholesaler in your area, IM me with your city and state and I will look up who is there if I can. There are not many manufacturers in this country, but here is a link to the only one I know of, and as manufacturers they will not sell to you, but they might have a dealer near you: |
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Hello,
If you're thinking about how to best work up a defense plan, I'd give THIS BOOK a read. I wasn't sure if I'd take much from it when I started, but it'll surprise you. Full of lots of good info. Be advised, there is a torrent of it out there. The reason this book comes to mind is that making your properties obviously fortified, you'd probably draw a lot of bad attention. The advantage is generally to the attackers as well. |
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C-wire is nice but you will need to set it up triple strand to be effective. It takes alot of wire to do it right. And expect every animal in the area to get tangled up in it. We were always finding dead goats in the triple strand around Kandahar Airfield.
OP it would probably be cheaper and more useful if you just buy a pallet of redbrand barbed wire and kept it oiled to prevent rust. You can build normal fences with it or set up a nasty swath of taglefoot. Wire obstacles Remember wire doesnt stop an attacker. It slows them down and can be used to funnel/channel the enemy into planned fields of fire. |
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Here is what you need. Surround the entire property in minutes:
Wire dispenser video from http://razorwireusa.com/ |
| I wouldnt count out the idea of an electric fence. Although powering it might be the issue. They are plenty powerful enough to stop people from getting in. The biggest problem with electric fences are that the wires can be cut easy. But if you used them with c-wire, it might be what youre looking for. I run a full 10 ft fence around my place here at work and I can vouch for the damage and the inabilty of anyone to grab hold of it. Unless of course you happen to be protected some way. |