[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Goodbye World (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/12/2014 7:22:01 AM EDT
|
Interesting movie on Netflix regarding a "Lights Out" scenario and isolated home that includes group dynamics and outside reaction to "Hermit" Survival Philosophy.
Of course, each scenario in such a type of event will depend on many things but the movie covers the basic points and a constant point I've tried to make over the years on the forum. There is no survival without community at one level or another and property is only secure with community. Typical for movies, this has a liberal twist but interesting enough it still came down to a gun. Anyway its worth a watch even if you have to sit through the character development and relationship aspects. It manages to cover the high points and has a fair climax. Tj |
|
I agree with TJ...
I thought it was a good entertaining movie. Not a whole lot in that genre so I will take what I can get. No I wouldn't use it as a survival guide or manual but then you shouldn't use any thing that comes from TV in the form of entertainment as a guide or manual for true survival. My wife liked it to so that's another plus. Worth a watch with the family. If nothing else it makes you think. IMO it portrays a much more realistic view of what a catastrophic life changing event will do to the majority of people. Not every one will be running around with load bearing tactical vests and AR15s. Any one who thinks you would last long like that is living a pipe dream. Communities and neighbors will need to pull together to make it through a serious SHTF... Lone wolf approach will only work for so long. If and when lone wolf comes strolling into the community barter center all happy fat and tactical the majority of people are probably not going to like lone wolf so much. If anything I think we will see some type of economic collapse worse then the great depression, grid down situation, serious weather incident, or maybe a pandemic... Mad max? -eh not so much 
Some common sense and a good dose of reality is worth swallowing every once and a while. 
|
|
A review of the movie I posted on S and P-
Goodbye World DVD Meh.... Group of pot smoking liberals congregate at a mountain top house where one guy that partially owns the place and his wife and daughter live. The guy is doing some prepping, but no weapons other than I guess if they throw pot brownies at the enemy? The people are all college buddies or something. Right off the bat some of the married girls are a little too friendly with some of the other married guys. You find out that the main character's wife was engaged to hippie libtard #2 that has the Libertarian girlfriend. You can see where it goes from there. Then the big bad military shows up- actually it's two supposed national guard guys that look like they borrowed their Daddy's uniforms and gave up online gaming after the power went out. There is some exchanges between the libtard group and the "evil" wonder twins playing the part of quasi military guys. You know "da man" right? They take in some skeezey broad that's hooked up with their "revolutionary" friend that lives in a guest cottage there. She's basically a garden implement for weeding.... and it shows right off the bat. Soon she's trying to weasel in with the owner. Later after she's kicked out, she joins the wonder twins playing soldier and a group of refugees at the bottom of the hill. They are roughing it while the hipsters are living in the lap of luxury- to include getting high and drunk on a daily basis..... Yep great idea in the PAW right??? So yeah you guessed it, garden implement girl tells the wonder twins and bottom of the hill refugees that hipster has meds, food, the whole nine. Hey, this is all a COMMUNITY right? So you frickin HAVE TO SHARE with the rest of us RIGHT? Once it's starts where does it stop? Course hipsters have nothing to protect themselves except maybe blowing pot smoke in the wonder twins faces.... So they give up a bunch of their stuff. Course that isn't enough- where does it stop? And finally a girl from the hipsters (1 of 2 remotely worthwhile people there) takes a little action Feel like giving it a D+ but that may be a stretch. Be forewarned, gratuitous use of pot, drinking and adult language. Oh yeah and I almost forgot- annoying spoiled kid screaming for "daily bubble". Are those people the type you really want to survive with? Wishy washy effemiinate "men", half the women folk were ho bags who were screwing everyone but their hubbies. Realistically, two, maybe three people at their place would have been remotely worth working with- the girl that was the senator's mistress, the libertarian girl and maybe the hippie that kinda sorta maybe owned part of the place. The rest were beyond worthless. Do you want to be able to PICK who you are going to survive with? Or do you want to just get lumped in with whatever dregs of humanity are out there? |
|
Quoted:
Honestly thought this was a suicide note when I saw the title. Glad its just a movie. I will give it a watch. yeah that thread title struck me wrong, I thought I was coming in here to join an intervention. could you have at least said " the movie ......." first. |
|
Quoted:
snip Feel like giving it a D+ but that may be a stretch. Be forewarned, gratuitous use of pot, drinking and adult language. Oh yeah and I almost forgot- annoying spoiled kid screaming for "daily bubble". Are those people the type you really want to survive with? Wishy washy effemiinate "men", half the women folk were ho bags who were screwing everyone but their hubbies. Realistically, two, maybe three people at their place would have been remotely worth working with- the girl that was the senator's mistress, the libertarian girl and maybe the hippie that kinda sorta maybe owned part of the place. The rest were beyond worthless. Do you want to be able to PICK who you are going to survive with? Or do you want to just get lumped in with whatever dregs of humanity are out there? That's a big point of the movie and life for that matter. We don't get to pick who we survive with and they didn't either. |
|
Quoted:
That's a big point of the movie and life for that matter. We don't get to pick who we survive with and they didn't either. Quoted:
Quoted:
snip Feel like giving it a D+ but that may be a stretch. Be forewarned, gratuitous use of pot, drinking and adult language. Oh yeah and I almost forgot- annoying spoiled kid screaming for "daily bubble". Are those people the type you really want to survive with? Wishy washy effemiinate "men", half the women folk were ho bags who were screwing everyone but their hubbies. Realistically, two, maybe three people at their place would have been remotely worth working with- the girl that was the senator's mistress, the libertarian girl and maybe the hippie that kinda sorta maybe owned part of the place. The rest were beyond worthless. Do you want to be able to PICK who you are going to survive with? Or do you want to just get lumped in with whatever dregs of humanity are out there? That's a big point of the movie and life for that matter. We don't get to pick who we survive with and they didn't either. I agree to an extent- family is what family is. Some of my extended family certainly wouldn't be my FIRST choice to survive with ;) But friends, people we prepare with ahead of time NOW, why can't we pick them? All the better if we pick them now, get to know and trust them, learn to work together now, etc. . The only common bond the hippies had in the movie other than smoking ganja (sp?) and screwing each other was that they all went to the same college- whoopteedoo. We have to realize that certain people- like the hippies in that movie- we DO NOT want to survive with. And I guarantee you squared away people like yourself and many others on the forums here would be better off WITHOUT dregs like them versus with them. And I agree without a doubt that main character house owner/partial house owner half arse prepper hippie guy SHOULD have done more to help his DECENT NEIGHBORS. I.e, the ones he makes a trade with early on. Now once it got to a complete cluster fudge with the "wonder twins" aka supposed national guard guys and the gaggle of other people, then they definitely should have kept their distance. There was certainly some programming in that movie, without a doubt. |
|
Quoted:
That's a big point of the movie and life for that matter. We don't get to pick who we survive with and they didn't either. Quoted:
Quoted:
snip Feel like giving it a D+ but that may be a stretch. Be forewarned, gratuitous use of pot, drinking and adult language. Oh yeah and I almost forgot- annoying spoiled kid screaming for "daily bubble". Are those people the type you really want to survive with? Wishy washy effemiinate "men", half the women folk were ho bags who were screwing everyone but their hubbies. Realistically, two, maybe three people at their place would have been remotely worth working with- the girl that was the senator's mistress, the libertarian girl and maybe the hippie that kinda sorta maybe owned part of the place. The rest were beyond worthless. Do you want to be able to PICK who you are going to survive with? Or do you want to just get lumped in with whatever dregs of humanity are out there? That's a big point of the movie and life for that matter. We don't get to pick who we survive with and they didn't either. But, but... The other thread said we get to 'qualify' them.... 
|
|
Watched it a couple of weeks ago. Three word review:
They're all cunts. How can you prepare for the end of the world without taking into account security needs? They only realistic part was the other camp going all 99% on the protagonists, and charging $100 for a box of tampons. Could have been a great movie, especially from a prepper standpoint (the meds was an awesome touch), but it was ruined by the whinny pothead bullhshit. |
|
Quoted:
But, but... The other thread said we get to 'qualify' them....
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
snip Feel like giving it a D+ but that may be a stretch. Be forewarned, gratuitous use of pot, drinking and adult language. Oh yeah and I almost forgot- annoying spoiled kid screaming for "daily bubble". Are those people the type you really want to survive with? Wishy washy effemiinate "men", half the women folk were ho bags who were screwing everyone but their hubbies. Realistically, two, maybe three people at their place would have been remotely worth working with- the girl that was the senator's mistress, the libertarian girl and maybe the hippie that kinda sorta maybe owned part of the place. The rest were beyond worthless. Do you want to be able to PICK who you are going to survive with? Or do you want to just get lumped in with whatever dregs of humanity are out there? That's a big point of the movie and life for that matter. We don't get to pick who we survive with and they didn't either. But, but... The other thread said we get to 'qualify' them....
Sounds like your referring to something I wrote? Let me ask you this- do you want to survive with people that you can pick NOW or would your rather get lumped in with people you don't really know LATER? |
|
Quoted:
Sounds like your referring to something I wrote? Let me ask you this- do you want to survive with people that you can pick NOW or would your rather get lumped in with people you don't really know LATER? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
snip Feel like giving it a D+ but that may be a stretch. Be forewarned, gratuitous use of pot, drinking and adult language. Oh yeah and I almost forgot- annoying spoiled kid screaming for "daily bubble". Are those people the type you really want to survive with? Wishy washy effemiinate "men", half the women folk were ho bags who were screwing everyone but their hubbies. Realistically, two, maybe three people at their place would have been remotely worth working with- the girl that was the senator's mistress, the libertarian girl and maybe the hippie that kinda sorta maybe owned part of the place. The rest were beyond worthless. Do you want to be able to PICK who you are going to survive with? Or do you want to just get lumped in with whatever dregs of humanity are out there? That's a big point of the movie and life for that matter. We don't get to pick who we survive with and they didn't either. But, but... The other thread said we get to 'qualify' them....
Sounds like your referring to something I wrote? Let me ask you this- do you want to survive with people that you can pick NOW or would your rather get lumped in with people you don't really know LATER? If -in general- 'picking them now' were realistic, then I would agree with you. But I DON'T. In general. 
|
|
The movie shows a much more realistic social sample than the typical survivalist fantasy group where everyone is a former navy SEAL or SWAT with rock solid marriages, perfect families and kids that abstain from sex until they get married by the leader of the survivalist group in the back yard. (yes, tactical badass AND priest, all in one)
FerFAL |
|
Quoted:
The movie shows a much more realistic social sample than the typical survivalist fantasy group where everyone is a former navy SEAL or SWAT with rock solid marriages, perfect families and kids that abstain from sex until they get married by the leader of the survivalist group in the back yard. (yes, tactical badass AND priest, all in one )
FerFAL +1
|
|
OK, maybe in California there are some pot addicted hippies that get drunk all day, smoke ganja and bang each other's wives is common, but in the REST of the world naahh.
Maybe if you aren't actually from America and watch a lot of American TV you might think that's how most of America is, but it's not LMAO So on the "pick" thing- Who here that is married just happened to run into some random chic one day and before getting to know her, just married her, like THAT DAY? Nope, you probably spent some time getting to know her, maybe you did the same with a couple chics before that. Maybe you realized some were fun to hang out with but definitely weren't "marriage material". Some your probably still friends with, some you may not be still. But you PICKED one as marriage material. You didn't just randomly run into some gal on the street and throw in with her did you? Yeah, it's that important. So yes, if at all possible, you want to PICK who you survive with. Or you could end up like the hippies in that movie- a big clusterfudge.... Or are you saying that laying around getting high and drunk every day is a GOOD survival plan? "Community" right? |
|
Quoted:
If -in general- 'picking them now' were realistic, then I would agree with you. But I DON'T. In general.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
snip Feel like giving it a D+ but that may be a stretch. Be forewarned, gratuitous use of pot, drinking and adult language. Oh yeah and I almost forgot- annoying spoiled kid screaming for "daily bubble". Are those people the type you really want to survive with? Wishy washy effemiinate "men", half the women folk were ho bags who were screwing everyone but their hubbies. Realistically, two, maybe three people at their place would have been remotely worth working with- the girl that was the senator's mistress, the libertarian girl and maybe the hippie that kinda sorta maybe owned part of the place. The rest were beyond worthless. Do you want to be able to PICK who you are going to survive with? Or do you want to just get lumped in with whatever dregs of humanity are out there? That's a big point of the movie and life for that matter. We don't get to pick who we survive with and they didn't either. But, but... The other thread said we get to 'qualify' them....
Sounds like your referring to something I wrote? Let me ask you this- do you want to survive with people that you can pick NOW or would your rather get lumped in with people you don't really know LATER? If -in general- 'picking them now' were realistic, then I would agree with you. But I DON'T. In general.
You seem to be a level headed guy that is actually doing things. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on why you don't in general. Seriously. |
|
Sure, I've spent a lifetime interacting with and observing folks ---longer than most here including most of the mods, as far as I can tell.
In my opinion, and that's just for what it's worth, 2 cents, you really don't get to see the true 'colors' of folks until you've interacted with them for a long time. If ever... As in the post re marriage above, you can go with someone for years 'getting to know them' and it's still a crap shoot. Also, people change, they hide their weaknesses, more and more they are deceitful and manipulative. Bring drugs/alcohol into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster, and we all know how prevalent drugs are nowadays. 
'Picking' folks to confide your 'plans', you might just be giving them your resources to take later, because you never know what they will do with the intel you trust to them. I have other thoughts as well, but these will have to do. ETA, some folks may well have an ability to 'read' their 'picks' and make better choices than I think I can. YMMV ETA2 Wasn't it the Shadow who said... "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of folks you might pick to share your BOL?" Or sompin like that... |
|
All true points Exp. Thanks for the reply.
Just like marriages can go awry, survival "relationships" can go awry also. People feign interest at a level higher than what is real for them. Some will tell you a "cock and bull" story to try to get in the mix, etc. This is why I've always stressed that these things take time. Yes even then, mistakes can be made. Just like in marriage. Does it mean then you should try to go it alone, or worse yet think that a kabobble thrown together at the last minute with tards from your subdivision is a better plan? Nope. Now, let's be frank. There are things you tell your friends. There are things you tell your better friends. There are things you tell your best friends, the guy that if you called at 2am in a bad situation he WOULD come and help you out. And then there are things you would only tell family and blood kin. People confuse these 4 categories. And they think that they have to/should/whatever tell "everything" to Joe Schmo new group member. YOU DON'T. There are levels of what you tell people and to be quite honest, no one has to know certain things. That's true operational security- who has a true "need to know" this info and more importantly WHEN. Does Joe Schmo new guy need to know that our plan is to all meet up at Fore Lake Campground on Day 1 of the PAW? Hell no he doesn't, you don't really know him yet. And if he is the type that pushes for too much info too fast (their are those types out there) , well that throws up a "danger Will Robinson" flag. Some will try to rush things, don't let them. Every time I've seen things like this rushed, problems come up. Now, egos, personality issues, a little bit of drama queen crap- that's gonna come up, especially if you don't "pick" (word of the day LOL) well. And you know what, you probably WON'T "pick" well early on- the other other reason you don't lay all your cards on the table. BUT, your going to experience the egos, personality issues, drama queen crap all the more with the ad hoc "community" savior of the subdivision "plan" also. Also, those types won't have the clear understanding of WHY they need to work together. People that are preparing together ahead of time usually will understand why they need to work together. I guess I've just seen it work more than it not work, but YMMV on that. And often times it's the "keep on keeping on" concept. Cause yeah it gets demoralizing to invest a year's worth of time and training into some new guy that later just "finds a new HOBBY"- cause unfortunately to quite a few out there- that's all preparedness is- a hobby... Hopefully that makes sense. |
|
All good points.
Spirko had a show recently and talked about Sociopaths, how ~1% of the US population are. [I didn't pick up the part where he explained where this data comes from.] I do know a few things abt them. First they are extremely cunning and self protective. Spirko pointed this out and that they aren't going to kill someone, for example, and expose themselves to sanctions:... But given the power to engineer the killing of, say, millions, they might do so happily. And think nothing about it. A few things abt Sociopaths, some I've observed and there was an interesting article I posted the link to here a couple months ago... [Maybe in your topic] The article explained how highly successful and intelligent people generally are sociopaths to one extent or another. And that having that 'quality' if you will, is used for 'good' and for 'evil'. [A 'Quality' MOST in this category do have] Having that quality to one degree or another is required, IMO, to generate skill and motivation to do what is required to be, say, an outstandingly successful businessman, or service professional, like a doctor, lawyer, or auto mechanic. Some of these folks are bad and some are good in their application of their 'talents'. In any case they still have to a degree or another, the manipulative, self-protective and survival instincts of a sociopath. It is an interesting article. I've had friends who were nothing other than 'bad' sociopaths, highly successful, and if I named one I'm thinking of at the moment, many here would recognize the name and business. He is incredibly charming, a great guy, nice looking, fun to be around, yet quite on the evil side I discovered after knowing him for years. He still is doing well, because he has his 'issue' under control. Given the opportunity, if it served him, [since he has no connection in his brain to a sense of 'fair play' and anything is fair game], he'd eat up and spit out anyone who offered a great enough reward, and wouldn't think more abt it for a second. And he has... There are MANY, MANY, folks like this. You go 'picking' a fellow prepper, you're impressed, he says all the right things, has you back...
...and he has your number for when it suits HIM, and you won't have any idea what happened if you are lucky enough to even be aware something happened.
*********This post has NOTHING to do with needing a community to survive, and other folks to work with, let's be clear abt this. It has everything to do with NOT being able to effectively evaluate someone you've known a while that you 'pick' to be a prepping partner. That's a potentially fatal error. People like 'company'. Misery likes company. When I started my business I wanted company, and asked my next door neighbor to join me. Fortunately he declined...
It's all part of human nature to want company, and the trick is to be able to pick someone who isn't going to take advantage of you, for some dope, alcohol, sex, $$$, ---or just because he can. The problem is, you can't tell. 
I had a very successful atty represent me in a shooting incident, intelligent, a part time judge, but he was a sociopath [likely] it turned out later, when my secretary showed me an article how he was busted soliciting sex from female clients, and he 'picked' the wrong one to do it, because she collected enough evidence to destroy him. I'll say, based on my brief interaction with him, I wasn't surprised. I was a little disappointed, because he prolly saved my life. 'Picking' a companion prepper is folly IMO in MANY, but obviously not all [because of the odds] cases. |
|
The problem is most confuse the topic of who with who can be in arms length when they sleep at night and who is within walking distance. They think somehow you control arms distance, walking distance takes care of its self. Its at the core of the "Hermit Survival Philosophy" and flawed terribly.
We can't control those within walking distance without community. You don't have to know them or even like them. Its best to think of community as those you live around and do business with some. If you think you and your buddies are going to create some little country on a few acres where you can be fat and happy building your new socialist Utopia, you need to think again. Society only tolerates that when times are good. When times are bad, you are the threat. It didn't work out too well for David Koresh at Waco and that was good times. They're not going to take you down simply because they want your stuff but because they see you a threat. The more a threat they see you are, the quicker they get around to you. They may want your stuff but it will be because they can come up with something you did or will do that they will take it. As you watched this movie, tell me when you found out the bad guys had the place down the hill, you didn't think just go shoot them? Now at the end, how surprised the main character was that he was the bad guy. You see that's the point. You don't get to pick who's within walking distance. Nobody in history has been able to and you don't have the magic formula especially in these days of fast transportation and communication. Here's the problem. If you are making your "Survival Contacts" those who are willing to let the world burn around them, you are increasing your odds that it will be you on a woodpile. That's absolutely the last people you want around you when times get hard. Their only goal is to take advantage of you and discard you once that advantage is over, probably just as you are them. The closer these types are to you, the bigger risk they are to you. Man, this isn't EOTWAWKI shit but just plain ole living. What we're really talking about is people you do business with. In business, you cast your net wide as you can. Otherwise, you'll be like a supplier to Ford that has to give 3% back every year till you have nothing left for yourself. Independence is not from dependence. You need to be able to say "no thanks" and that ability is greatly hampered by an intimate knowledge of you and your situation. Hell guys, we have a hard enough time with family let alone someone who's not blood relations and mercenary. I put to you that everyone on this board has their survival group already. Its family within arms reach and where their BOL walking distance is neighbors. If you are not working that then you are just a person the internet just as bad as those who say, "I'm coming to your house" for that's what it is. I and you don't need to know people to do business with them and even an agreement of mutual defense is just business. I laugh all the time when I read on gun forums how "I wouldn't trust that person with a gun unless I know them." I imagine they shit their pants when a cop walks by. Anyone who has served in the military and slept in barracks full of armed men they don't know has to laugh at the naivety. What did the main character gain by giving food and medicine to his neighbors in the movie? You know I'm the son of Appalachian Great Depression babies. My fathers family was from the city and my mothers from the country. Their stories varied greatly but they shared one theme. Those who fared the best, did not isolate themselves. You don't have to give everything you own or feed every begger at you door, you just only have to give a shit. Years ago a neighbor of mine run a wood working shop and took in runaway teens. My neighbors were horrified of the prospect and shunned the boys. They weren't mean to them. My neighbors are all good folks. They just avoided them. I on the other hand thought it was pretty neat what he was doing. I didn't get directly involved but neither did I avoid it. I would say "Hi" to the boys, offer one a ride when I'd see them walking, simple things like that that neighbors do. Boys like that have issues guys. Every now and then, one of them would go off on his own and my neighborhood would have a rash of robberies. My house was never hit once. In fact, more than once, every car in the neighborhood was broken into and rummaged but not only not mine but I had four to five vehicles sitting in my drive. Me? I was the guy that got the calls at 1AM, "Hey, Mr, remember me? There's some strange car just pulled around in your drive." I learned a lot from those wayward kids. You don't have to be their pals. You don't have to give them stuff. You don't have to show them trust even. You just have to treat them like everyone else. The problem is thanks in a big part to TV, people have forgotten how to treat people like everyone else. We've become a society of people that don't interface with others unless we want something and there's even a bunch of people who mistake that as caring. Today, my wife and I are going to the rest home to see my neighbors who had no option after living next to us for over two decades. What you know, we don't have a thing to gain from that. What I'm telling you guys is there's absolutely nothing wrong with interfacing with others because you need something or they need something just don't confuse it that its something its not. You can do business with a stranger. Its not as much a matter of the who but the where. Who just makes the negotiation easier. Tj |
|
Quoted:
All good points. Spirko had a show recently and talked about Sociopaths, how ~1% of the US population are. [I didn't pick up the part where he explained where this data comes from.] I do know a few things abt them. First they are extremely cunning and self protective. Spirko pointed this out and that they aren't going to kill someone, for example, and expose themselves to sanctions:... But given the power to engineer the killing of, say, millions, they might do so happily. And think nothing about it. A few things abt Sociopaths, some I've observed and there was an interesting article I posted the link to here a couple months ago... [Maybe in your topic] The article explained how highly successful and intelligent people generally are sociopaths to one extent or another. And that having that 'quality' if you will, is used for 'good' and for 'evil'. [A 'Quality' MOST in this category do have] Having that quality to one degree or another is required, IMO, to generate skill and motivation to do what is required to be, say, an outstandingly successful businessman, or service professional, like a doctor, lawyer, or auto mechanic. Some of these folks are bad and some are good in their application of their 'talents'. In any case they still have to a degree or another, the manipulative, self-protective and survival instincts of a sociopath. It is an interesting article. I've had friends who were nothing other than 'bad' sociopaths, highly successful, and if I named one I'm thinking of at the moment, many here would recognize the name and business. He is incredibly charming, a great guy, nice looking, fun to be around, yet quite on the evil side I discovered after knowing him for years. He still is doing well, because he has his 'issue' under control. Given the opportunity, if it served him, [since he has no connection in his brain to a sense of 'fair play' and anything is fair game], he'd eat up and spit out anyone who offered a great enough reward, and wouldn't think more abt it for a second. And he has... There are MANY, MANY, folks like this. You go 'picking' a fellow prepper, you're impressed, he says all the right things, has you back...
...and he has your number for when it suits HIM, and you won't have any idea what happened if you are lucky enough to even be aware something happened.
*********This post has NOTHING to do with needing a community to survive, and other folks to work with, let's be clear abt this. It has everything to do with NOT being able to effectively evaluate someone you've known a while that you 'pick' to be a prepping partner. That's a potentially fatal error. People like 'company'. Misery likes company. When I started my business I wanted company, and asked my next door neighbor to join me. Fortunately he declined...
It's all part of human nature to want company, and the trick is to be able to pick someone who isn't going to take advantage of you, for some dope, alcohol, sex, $$$, ---or just because he can. The problem is, you can't tell.
I had a very successful atty represent me in a shooting incident, intelligent, a part time judge, but he was a sociopath [likely] it turned out later, when my secretary showed me an article how he was busted soliciting sex from female clients, and he 'picked' the wrong one to do it, because she collected enough evidence to destroy him. I'll say, based on my brief interaction with him, I wasn't surprised. I was a little disappointed, because he prolly saved my life. 'Picking' a companion prepper is folly IMO in MANY, but obviously not all [because of the odds] cases. OK I understand where your coming from now. Once bitten twice shy. I can understand that. Don't personally know the stats on sociopaths or whatever, kinda confused about what you wrote honestly- doctors, lawyers, etc. One of the biggest things you (should) watch for is people's willingness to work with each other and reciprocate. Would have used the word "share" but someone would think that meant share everyone. Personally, I helped a guy along for a few years, taught him some things, etc. He always seemed just a little in it for himself. Chronic liar but of the sort that it wasn't easy to figure out. Kinda changed some dynamics of the situation to see how he would respond (the tap of free info/training was turned off) and he faded away. Silence for a long time. Some years later he resurfaces. He's had some personal losses in his life and to a degree, seems to have changed a bit. He starts coming around again. Others that knew him before claim he's "changed", etc. I"m not so sure. A few things are thrown out there to see his response. Yep, he's still a TAKER. He's been making good money for years and is geared up, etc. but when a pile of freebees is thrown out there and others CLEARLY need some of this, he's the first to dive in like a cheetah on a wounded gazelle. That's called a CLUE. Many other clues add up. Dude gets embarrassed when some clown he thought of as his protege embarrasses the hell out of him in front of others. He literally sees what else he can get for free quickly and then he's gone again. Two lessons from that- the soft soap types (and I was one of them back then) were like "give him another chance" and "he's changed", the reality is few people actually do change. Secondly,. he was shown/taught, etc. about nothing his 2nd go around. Why? Two reasons. 1. He didn't need to be (need to know) and 2. it gave everyone a chance to observe that he really was a TAKER. I don't know if you would call him a socialopath or whatever, but if that involves being totally for yourself and yourself only, then yeah it fits. Like I said, this is not a problem free solution. However the alternative of a gaggle of people you don't know from your subdivision isn't a viable option. |
|
Quoted:
The problem is most confuse the topic of who with who can be in arms length when they sleep at night and who is within walking distance. They think somehow you control arms distance, walking distance takes care of its self. Its at the core of the "Hermit Survival Philosophy" and flawed terribly. We can't control those within walking distance without community. You don't have to know them or even like them. Its best to think of community as those you live around and do business with some. If you think you and your buddies are going to create some little country on a few acres where you can be fat and happy building your new socialist Utopia, you need to think again. Society only tolerates that when times are good. When times are bad, you are the threat. It didn't work out too well for David Koresh at Waco and that was good times. They're not going to take you down simply because they want your stuff but because they see you a threat. The more a threat they see you are, the quicker they get around to you. They may want your stuff but it will be because they can come up with something you did or will do that they will take it. As you watched this movie, tell me when you found out the bad guys had the place down the hill, you didn't think just go shoot them? Now at the end, how surprised the main character was that he was the bad guy. You see that's the point. You don't get to pick who's within walking distance. Nobody in history has been able to and you don't have the magic formula especially in these days of fast transportation and communication. Here's the problem. If you are making your "Survival Contacts" those who are willing to let the world burn around them, you are increasing your odds that it will be you on a woodpile. That's absolutely the last people you want around you when times get hard. Their only goal is to take advantage of you and discard you once that advantage is over, probably just as you are them. The closer these types are to you, the bigger risk they are to you. Man, this isn't EOTWAWKI shit but just plain ole living. What we're really talking about is people you do business with. In business, you cast your net wide as you can. Otherwise, you'll be like a supplier to Ford that has to give 3% back every year till you have nothing left for yourself. Independence is not from dependence. You need to be able to say "no thanks" and that ability is greatly hampered by an intimate knowledge of you and your situation. Hell guys, we have a hard enough time with family let alone someone who's not blood relations and mercenary. I put to you that everyone on this board has their survival group already. Its family within arms reach and where their BOL walking distance is neighbors. If you are not working that then you are just a person the internet just as bad as those who say, "I'm coming to your house" for that's what it is. I and you don't need to know people to do business with them and even an agreement of mutual defense is just business. I laugh all the time when I read on gun forums how "I wouldn't trust that person with a gun unless I know them." I imagine they shit their pants when a cop walks by. Anyone who has served in the military and slept in barracks full of armed men they don't know has to laugh at the naivety. What did the main character gain by giving food and medicine to his neighbors in the movie? You know I'm the son of Appalachian Great Depression babies. My fathers family was from the city and my mothers from the country. Their stories varied greatly but they shared one theme. Those who fared the best, did not isolate themselves. You don't have to give everything you own or feed every begger at you door, you just only have to give a shit. Years ago a neighbor of mine run a wood working shop and took in runaway teens. My neighbors were horrified of the prospect and shunned the boys. They weren't mean to them. My neighbors are all good folks. They just avoided them. I on the other hand thought it was pretty neat what he was doing. I didn't get directly involved but neither did I avoid it. I would say "Hi" to the boys, offer one a ride when I'd see them walking, simple things like that that neighbors do. Boys like that have issues guys. Every now and then, one of them would go off on his own and my neighborhood would have a rash of robberies. My house was never hit once. In fact, more than once, every car in the neighborhood was broken into and rummaged but not only not mine but I had four to five vehicles sitting in my drive. Me? I was the guy that got the calls at 1AM, "Hey, Mr, remember me? There's some strange car just pulled around in your drive." I learned a lot from those wayward kids. You don't have to be their pals. You don't have to give them stuff. You don't have to show them trust even. You just have to treat them like everyone else. The problem is thanks in a big part to TV, people have forgotten how to treat people like everyone else. We've become a society of people that don't interface with others unless we want something and there's even a bunch of people who mistake that as caring. Today, my wife and I are going to the rest home to see my neighbors who had no option after living next to us for over two decades. What you know, we don't have a thing to gain from that. What I'm telling you guys is there's absolutely nothing wrong with interfacing with others because you need something or they need something just don't confuse it that its something its not. You can do business with a stranger. Its not as much a matter of the who but the where. Who just makes the negotiation easier. Tj Quoted:
The problem is most confuse the topic of who with who can be in arms length when they sleep at night and who is within walking distance. They think somehow you control arms distance, walking distance takes care of its self. Its at the core of the "Hermit Survival Philosophy" and flawed terribly. We can't control those within walking distance without community. You don't have to know them or even like them. Its best to think of community as those you live around and do business with some. If you think you and your buddies are going to create some little country on a few acres where you can be fat and happy building your new socialist Utopia, you need to think again. Society only tolerates that when times are good. When times are bad, you are the threat. It didn't work out too well for David Koresh at Waco and that was good times. They're not going to take you down simply because they want your stuff but because they see you a threat. The more a threat they see you are, the quicker they get around to you. They may want your stuff but it will be because they can come up with something you did or will do that they will take it. As you watched this movie, tell me when you found out the bad guys had the place down the hill, you didn't think just go shoot them? Now at the end, how surprised the main character was that he was the bad guy. You see that's the point. You don't get to pick who's within walking distance. Nobody in history has been able to and you don't have the magic formula especially in these days of fast transportation and communication. Here's the problem. If you are making your "Survival Contacts" those who are willing to let the world burn around them, you are increasing your odds that it will be you on a woodpile. That's absolutely the last people you want around you when times get hard. Their only goal is to take advantage of you and discard you once that advantage is over, probably just as you are them. The closer these types are to you, the bigger risk they are to you. Man, this isn't EOTWAWKI shit but just plain ole living. What we're really talking about is people you do business with. In business, you cast your net wide as you can. Otherwise, you'll be like a supplier to Ford that has to give 3% back every year till you have nothing left for yourself. Independence is not from dependence. You need to be able to say "no thanks" and that ability is greatly hampered by an intimate knowledge of you and your situation. Hell guys, we have a hard enough time with family let alone someone who's not blood relations and mercenary. I put to you that everyone on this board has their survival group already. Its family within arms reach and where their BOL walking distance is neighbors. If you are not working that then you are just a person the internet just as bad as those who say, "I'm coming to your house" for that's what it is. I and you don't need to know people to do business with them and even an agreement of mutual defense is just business. I laugh all the time when I read on gun forums how "I wouldn't trust that person with a gun unless I know them." I imagine they shit their pants when a cop walks by. Anyone who has served in the military and slept in barracks full of armed men they don't know has to laugh at the naivety. What did the main character gain by giving food and medicine to his neighbors in the movie? You know I'm the son of Appalachian Great Depression babies. My fathers family was from the city and my mothers from the country. Their stories varied greatly but they shared one theme. Those who fared the best, did not isolate themselves. You don't have to give everything you own or feed every begger at you door, you just only have to give a shit. Years ago a neighbor of mine run a wood working shop and took in runaway teens. My neighbors were horrified of the prospect and shunned the boys. They weren't mean to them. My neighbors are all good folks. They just avoided them. I on the other hand thought it was pretty neat what he was doing. I didn't get directly involved but neither did I avoid it. I would say "Hi" to the boys, offer one a ride when I'd see them walking, simple things like that that neighbors do. Boys like that have issues guys. Every now and then, one of them would go off on his own and my neighborhood would have a rash of robberies. My house was never hit once. In fact, more than once, every car in the neighborhood was broken into and rummaged but not only not mine but I had four to five vehicles sitting in my drive. Me? I was the guy that got the calls at 1AM, "Hey, Mr, remember me? There's some strange car just pulled around in your drive." I learned a lot from those wayward kids. You don't have to be their pals. You don't have to give them stuff. You don't have to show them trust even. You just have to treat them like everyone else. The problem is thanks in a big part to TV, people have forgotten how to treat people like everyone else. We've become a society of people that don't interface with others unless we want something and there's even a bunch of people who mistake that as caring. Today, my wife and I are going to the rest home to see my neighbors who had no option after living next to us for over two decades. What you know, we don't have a thing to gain from that. What I'm telling you guys is there's absolutely nothing wrong with interfacing with others because you need something or they need something just don't confuse it that its something its not. You can do business with a stranger. Its not as much a matter of the who but the where. Who just makes the negotiation easier. Tj I'm afraid I don't follow all of what your saying but I'm gonna try to respond to what I can :) The problem is most confuse the topic of who with who can be in arms length when they sleep at night and who is within walking distance. They think somehow you control arms distance, walking distance takes care of its self. Its at the core of the "Hermit Survival Philosophy" and flawed terribly. First off, let's be clear. This idea that someone just moves to a mountain top 100 miles from the nearest house and is going to survive there is utter bullshit. That's NOT ME MY FRIEND. Do I live in a subdivision? Hell no, lived that way for years and despite being the "nice guy" and giving out water, solar showers, even BLANKETS to a lot of retards -even old people who should have known better- after hurricanes. Hell I was.... 20 maybe 21 years old then. Never wore camo there, never displayed weapons. Had some rabbits and chickens in the backyard behind a privacy fence, that was about it. So I've done the help your "neighbors" after a disaster deal. Yet I watched the same idjits more concerned with who mowed there lawn late than who actually got out and ran the chainsaws and cut those trees blocking the road. None of those a-holes checked on the old people next door or brought the idjits that moved from Michigan that were too cheap to get a fireplace in their house BLANKETS cause they didn't have anything warm. Old people, from Michigan of all damn places, not having blankets in their house! Now when it's time to turn someone into "zoning" because they had an extra car in the driveway they were helping a single mom fix - oh yeah, you'll hear from them then! Tom- THAT is the reality of subdivision living. Not country living like where you are living, not like where I"m living now. Yet this is where a good majority of "preppers" live now. I've also fed the homeless for years and donated hundreds of new sleeping bags, hygiene stuff, etc. I've given covert medical care to homeless people that were drunk, having some dude barf on me while I was cleaning and bandaging a wound on his hand. All the while a capable nurse was nearby that wanted no part of it. Through our local business we interact with hundreds of businesses in the local area and have volunteered time in various true "community" outreaches for 8 or more years. Don't think because someone is saying "don't trust the stoners next door in your subdivision" that they live on a mt. top and never have contact with anyone. That's an absurd stereotype. Yes, their are "neighbors" in the general area that we interact with, that we have helped numerous times, some have "helped" us in some ways also. Again, just because someone brings the true reality of the "savior of the subdivision" fiction story fantasy to light, doesn't mean they are "hermits"- that's absurd. However, just like in the subdivision, their are people in the general area (couple mile radius) that we avoid now and would definitely "avoid" later. Why? Cause their trash. There is trash in the country as well as in the city, just a lot less trash in the country cause their is a lot less people. But remember, when you do the "let's all work together neighborhood!" crap, YOU CAN'T EXCLUDE THOSE TYPES. COMMUNITY MEANS EVERYONE, PERIOD. If you think you can, explain HOW you plan to do this. As you watched this movie, tell me when you found out the bad guys had the place down the hill, you didn't think just go shoot them? Now at the end, how surprised the main character was that he was the bad guy. I'm not fully getting what you mean. I'm assuming you mean the hippie guy partial owner of the house with the preps as the main character? Is he the "bad guy" because he wouldn't open up his stores and give everything to the "community?" Please explain I'm lost... What did the main character gain by giving food and medicine to his neighbors in the movie? Well, because he did it wrong, he "gained" nothing. And why should we seek "gain" from giving? And why should he HAVE to give? Isn't that akin to welfare? I have happily written checks for (to me) fairly large amounts to feed people that needed it, to clothe people that needed it, to give hundreds of new sleeping bags to homeless, etc. I've also gotten out in the "trenches" and feed them, fixed their wounds, etc. Some appreciated it, most did not. That's HUMAN NATURE. However I did these things on MY OWN FREE WILL, and I ENJOYED them greatly. Yet if the gubmint told us we were all going to pay an additional 10% tax to take care of the welfare class, most of us (myself included) would reel at that and hopefully revolt! What's the difference? One is done through FREE WILL and honestly love, the other (the 10% tax example) would be FORCED upon us. "Dude" in the movie- yes he should have helped the gal - the real neighbor- at the bottom of the hill early on. Yet when he did (reluctantly) start giving, what happened? IT DIDN'T END, IT WAS FORCED AND IT'S NEVER ENOUGH WHEN IT'S FORCED. So which is it- give out of LOVE, or be FORCED to give? In the PAW, there are covert ways to give that don't include crazy ideas like giving them food at the gate. The problem is thanks in a big part to TV, people have forgotten how to treat people like everyone else. We've become a society of people that don't interface with others unless we want something and there's even a bunch of people who mistake that as caring. Today, my wife and I are going to the rest home to see my neighbors who had no option after living next to us for over two decades. What you know, we don't have a thing to gain from that. What I'm telling you guys is there's absolutely nothing wrong with interfacing with others because you need something or they need something just don't confuse it that its something its not. You can do business with a stranger. Its not as much a matter of the who but the where. Who just makes the negotiation easier. I've spent most of my free time- and some that wasn't- this year caring for and dragging some old neighbors to medical appts, some as far away as 3 hours. Again, doing out of LOVE instead of being FORCED to. I've drug wood to many that needed it, cut grass at many a yard that could no longer do it, etc. I get what your saying. NO ONE is saying it's "wrong to interface" with others. The guys that cook meth on the other side of the mountain there, would you cut their lawn or bail them out of jail the third time? No, WHY? Because most sane people avoid people that are trouble like that. And that my friend is the crux of what I'm saying- avoid the bad people where you possibly can. And when you throw in with everyone- what some mistakenly call "community" YOU CANNOT EXCLUDE ANYONE. That's communism, I mean community, oops similar word! So how do you "organize the subdivision" and keep the child molester down the street out? OK, in the country, how do you organize everyone and exclude the meth lab guys a mile away? |
|
No the Hippie guy was a bad guy because he didn't communicate and saw himself apart from the community.
The what he had was secondary. Unless we're dead, we'll always have something somebody else wants. His crime was not that he didn't give them some material thing they needed but he didn't even try to help. "Hermit Survival Philosophy" is a failed philosophy whether its a handful or a group. Size and even guns simply dictates time before it fails. Like in the movie, a forced offer to help a day late and a dollar short doesn't cut it. We must be involved from the get go and instead of hiding waiting on the Zombie Bikers to leave the general store be the ones organizing opposition to run them out. Our morals and principles of community/government do not die just because someone pulled the power cord. We don't get to set up little countries. All that makes us is the next target after the Zombie Bikers. Tj |
|
Quoted:
No the Hippie guy was a bad guy because he didn't communicate and saw himself apart from the community. The what he had was secondary. Unless we're dead, we'll always have something somebody else wants. His crime was not that he didn't give them some material thing they needed but he didn't even try to help. "Hermit Survival Philosophy" is a failed philosophy whether its a handful or a group. Size and even guns simply dictates time before it fails. Like in the movie, a forced offer to help a day late and a dollar short doesn't cut it. We must be involved from the get go and instead of hiding waiting on the Zombie Bikers to leave the general store be the ones organizing opposition to run them out. Our morals and principles of community/government do not die just because someone pulled the power cord. We don't get to set up little countries. All that makes us is the next target after the Zombie Bikers. Tj 1. So hippie guy should have opened up his stocks to everyone? 2. Where does that end? When his wife is being passed around amongst the wonder twins? 3. So how is this not communism? I agree that he should have helped the real neighbor early on, most especially after she gave him the tomatoes or whatever the hell it was and said basically we'll square up later. How else could he have handled it WITHOUT swimming in the abyss of communism? If he CHOOSE to help anyone (remember, we want to be able to CHOOSE to help (real giving) versus being FORCED to help (the gubmint model, welfare, communism), he could have brought a box of meds down there, sat it down, picked out two of say 10 boxes and said "I just need these for my family, ya'll can use the rest as it's needed." He was your typical liberal- TALK about helping others = with YOUR tax dollars not with their actual dollars or their actual time. See your advocating being forced to help- the gubmint approach, ie., you HAVE to throw in with these jokers. I'm saying help but help in the true giving way- because you WANT to, not because your forced to. "Community survival philosophy" fails because of HUMAN NATURE and the fact that you cannot EXCLUDE ANYONE. In the movie, if the "wonder twins" could have been excluded and probably a few of the other "give me" types, you MIGHT have had a chance of making things works. But communism means everyone my friend, no exclusions! Everyone- good, bad, worse, taker, helper, people that sit on their arse with their hands out, everyone, no exclusions! So like I have said before, if your "plan" is to be the savior of the subdivision, be prepared to GIVE EVERYTHING, no hold backs, your kid has asthma and you stocked meds for him, tough shit, you sorry hoarder someone else may need them! Your family stored food and sacrificed while the Jones wasted money, tough shit, share all your food with them. You HAVE to, you can't exclude anyone. Don't like your child working around the child molester down the street- you sorry jerk, this is community and you can't exclude anyone! Here's a news flash- communism failed. Tom, I think because of where you live in the country with a bunch of old school nice folks around, that's where your perspective is coming from. But we make an unrealistic assumption when we assume everyone is "just like us" and that's where you get pinged. Hell I know that's happened to me in business numerous times. Your obviously a decent guy, with a huge heart, but us guys with big hearts need to understand not everyone is like that. We also have to avoid the "hero complex" wherein we feel like we must be everyone's savior. And we must be cognizant of true human nature, not just assume everyone is a "good guy" like us. The movie "The Divide" is another good one that shows last minute "community", watch that one if you haven't yet. So for all the "community survival" folks- do you have a plan to feed your community? How much food have you stored for them, not you, THEM. If you are remotely serious about making that sort of thing work, you HAVE to do that. Seriously. I've bought truckloads of hard red winter wheat before, it's been years but back then it was relatively cheap, one load was about $.15 a lb. Course you still have to package it but you get the point. There was 22 pallets per truck at 2,000 lbs. per pallet. 44,000 lbs in the .15 lb. example is $6600 plus freight. That would give 100 people the basis of a starter 1 year supply. Bland and people will probably complain about it, but they may not starve. You can buy other things to stock for them later also. A "community" well is another good idea- a solar powered well like this one may only set you back $5-8K http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXJ7QzevWks&list=UUpotXUhhZXoWAyOUVamBbDQ or better yet a dedicated hand pump well would be easier and EMP wouldn't be a problem, nor theft of the solar panel. That would be similar priced. On the truckloads of food, pack it correctly but do not distribute it till something happens. If you give out to the "community" now, people will just throw it out, give it to their chickens, etc. They will value it more when they are hungry. With everyone- and remember that literally means EVERYONE on remotely the same page as far as food and water, then you may have a chance of making it work. If your serious about your plan, you will do this. Honestly, it was something Bruce Clayton first talked about in the 1980's in a somewhat similar way. He never made it work either, but hey someone here may! If "community" is going to be your plan, the food and water plan above is core to it. |
|
TJ...I guess I like where your heart is at, but it doesn't apply to me. I don't live in an idyllic neighborhood, where everyone has the community's best interest at heart.
Short term disaster scenario? I have been, and will be there for my friends/family/community. My preps allow me to maintain security and strength, so that I can be there for the community, where others who are scrambling in their own immediate situation could not. ...but some sort of debilitating, national event like the one portrayed in this movie? The community doesn't get to know what I have. I believe in charity, but I'll decide when, where, and how much of my property I give away. That movie would have been very different, had that been my place. |
|
So it must be a few days from "arfcom buys a town" thread day. Have not seen movie, will somewhat watch for it, have a ton of stuff to watch if I will sit down and watch it. Time to go play with the pups, they do well at barking enough to keep everything out of the yard except the bunny rabbit. That bunny rabbit teases the heck out of the poor pups. Wonder what the bunny plans to do if tshtf? |
|
I know I'm bucking the isolationist "Hermit" philosophy and no matter how much I explain just because you give a pea doesn't mean you empty the bin, you all will try to justify trying to sit on a mountain of stuff while the world around you starves.
I'm just trying to tell you like the fools in that movie, it won't happen that way. Life isn't a poorly done movie where the lord of the castle orders the surfs about for even kings had to listen, had to be part of his community. There is no idyllic community where everyone shares nor is there one where you are left alone. Its a point of fact, the first one hit by a criminal is the "asshole" whatever that definition is in their mind. Its easy to make an asshole out of someone you don't know and doesn't care about you. Some people are doomed no matter how much beans and rice they put back and others are going to make it without putting back a thing. Some are going to invite disaster likes its gold by inviting the exact wrong mentality into their circle. Survival is not about material things. Its about adaptation. We are either part of the solution or part of the problem. Its our choice. No man is an island. Tj |
|
TJ I really do get what your saying.
But I think the TIMING is wrong. Their WILL be a time to "organize" your area, etc. but it's NOT 2 days into the PAW. After about six months to a year, things are going to be very different. There will THEN be essentially just two classes of people- PRODUCERS and LOOTERS Basically anyone that makes it past about a year is either going to be living via one of two methods- 1. Producers- they are going to understand they have to WORK for everything. Some might have had some food stocked ahead of time, some might have just gotten lucky, etc. but the overriding thing in common with them is that they will understand that survival means WORK. 2. Looters- these will be the ones unwilling to work to survive and will be trying to take to survive. Either on a small scale via sneaking in at night stealing some eggs, some veggies, etc. from a producer or via a larger scale as gangs of marauders varying in size. The latter will be more VIOLENT because they will have the numbers to. And by then they will be rather good at it. Their will be no third class wherein their is welfare types that will sit on their butts and expect handouts. They will have joined one of the two above classes or have died of starvation waiting for someone to "take care of them." It's that MENTALITY of entitlement that will have to die first, before any serious efforts of community can take place. Why? Cause the entitlement cancer is SO wide spread in our society it's going to have to be where people truly have to be on their own for a while before they really "get" why the entitlement mentality is bad. The time to truly organize a community will be after the entitlement cancer has been rooted out. If it is to work anyways. I get what your saying, it's all about rebuilding. But rebuild what? The same entitlement BS that's ruining the country now? Fostering a "what's mine is yours and you have nothing and feel since I have something it's yours" mentality via the communal/communism approach will only prolong the cancer. It has to be stopped. Let people stand on their own for a while and get that American spirit back. The pioneer spirit, whatever the hell you want to call it. It's there in many people they have just forgotten. |
|
Quoted:
Years ago a neighbor of mine run a wood working shop and took in runaway teens. My neighbors were horrified of the prospect and shunned the boys. They weren't mean to them. My neighbors are all good folks. They just avoided them. I on the other hand thought it was pretty neat what he was doing. I didn't get directly involved but neither did I avoid it. I would say "Hi" to the boys, offer one a ride when I'd see them walking, simple things like that that neighbors do. Boys like that have issues guys. Every now and then, one of them would go off on his own and my neighborhood would have a rash of robberies. My house was never hit once. In fact, more than once, every car in the neighborhood was broken into and rummaged but not only not mine but I had four to five vehicles sitting in my drive. Me? I was the guy that got the calls at 1AM, "Hey, Mr, remember me? There's some strange car just pulled around in your drive." I learned a lot from those wayward kids. You don't have to be their pals. You don't have to give them stuff. You don't have to show them trust even. You just have to treat them like everyone else. The problem is thanks in a big part to TV, people have forgotten how to treat people like everyone else. We've become a society of people that don't interface with others unless we want something and there's even a bunch of people who mistake that as caring. Today, my wife and I are going to the rest home to see my neighbors who had no option after living next to us for over two decades. What you know, we don't have a thing to gain from that. What I'm telling you guys is there's absolutely nothing wrong with interfacing with others because you need something or they need something just don't confuse it that its something its not. You can do business with a stranger. Its not as much a matter of the who but the where. Who just makes the negotiation easier. Tj Some great points there TJ, couldnt agree with you more. Its not all black and white. The real world isnt that simple, its more about shades of gray. I watched the movie again and took a few notes. Its not bad at all, if anything, its a rather optimistic "sample" of what you'd get from society. 1)People are all different. If anything there wasnt any big conflict in this group, and in reality it would have been much worse. Even in a hand-picked survivalist group you would see far more conflict, some of it violent even. Keep in mind that most homicides are perpetrated by family or friends. 2)Other than the little girl, we're looking at a group of young, fit, healthy and smart people. If you pick ten random people from society, from any country, you wont be that lucky. 3) Other than the hippie attitude, its still a smarter group of people compared to the national average of any country, where people can hardly put five words together. Some talked about politics, libertarianism, "entitlement mentality", etc. 4)The bearded guy has a house with plenty of supplies, solar, well, etc. The weak spot being his anti-gun mentality, other than that he's got a nice amount of supplies. Granted, safety is a key priority, but he’s still better prepared than most. 5)Benjamin (conspiracy guy) actually carries around as EDC a Leatherman Wave. That alone makes him better prepared than 99% of people out there. 6)In spite of the overall liberal/hippie theme, you have a "prepper/self reliant type", a tech guy, a gov. official with insiders knowledge who also happens to be an eagle scout. 7)The “no one will bother us so far up the hill” mentality proves to be wrong, and the same lady sells items at pre-SHTF prices to her neighbor because she says she wouldn’t take advantage of the situation. Still, a few days later she’s along with the group that is willing to steal medicines and supplies. That’s a good message right there. You may think everyone will play nice because they do so now, but when desperate enough even your long time good neighbors will come after you. 8)The self-reliant, salt of the earth country guy living down the road is actually all about cooking meth. Again, feel-good idea about all country people being good and everyone from the city being evil and lazy just isn’t true. You’ve got all sorts of people in different places, and meth labs and pot farms are more often than not found in the country. 9) While some may frown at the use drugs and heavy drinking, it is part of society and a lot of people do so or worse. There’s plenty of people out there that are just as addicted to prescription drugs. 10)Some promiscuous behavior, again, much worse happens in the real world. At least the girl sleeping around was clearly more than twenty years old. Plenty of girls do much worse and aren’t even old enough to buy a beer. 11)There’s some friction of past relationships, a guy kissing another man’s wife. If you haven’t heard of MUCH worse than that you need to leave the fallout bunker every once in a while and take a look around. I think that the social conflicts between people/couples/families wasn’t nearly as bad as it would be in real life, it was watered down quite a bit. 12)Safety concerns are greatly underestimated and in the movie, it was very much PG-13 safe. In reality what would have happened during the first encounter with “hostiles” would have been far worse than that. 13)Very naïve to think that quoting the constitution magically stops a couple sociopaths with ARs. 14)At the end the message that we all have to work together is a positive one, and I agree that no man (or group) is an island. Reality shows us time and again that a man alone or even survivalist group, no matter how tactical they think they are, have 0 chance of long term success when surrounded by a hostiles. You can win a fight or two, but shooting raiders and living to fight another day is no long (or medium) term solution. 15)The eco-friendly prepper/self-reliant guy suffers the lack of defensive preparations, as it would happen in the real world (again, watered down compared to how it would happen in reality) Overall a good movie. The little sentimental conflicts, the different views, the pot, if anything it was all very naïve. Its funny though to see some people get all upset about it, surprised that people didn’t behave like survivalist cardboard characters out of a cheap survivalist novel.
FerFAL |
|
Quoted:
Turn off the TV dude :) Maybe you should turn it on a tad more often and see whats happening all around you, that way you wont be so surprised when SHTF. Just saying.
Its not just Kardashians on TV. There's also this, which you want to keep an eye on: 
Edit: About American society: 50% Divorce rate, 70% Percent Of Americans On Prescription Drugs, 22% say they drink more alochol than they should according to Gallup. So as I was saying, if you go by the national average, of USA and most other countries for that matter, you could do a lot worse than the the hippies in this movie. There's a good chance that if you pick some random 10-20 people in USA you'll end up with a few like the nice gentleman up there helping himself to some beverages. FerFAL |
|
Quoted:
Maybe you should turn it on a tad more often and see whats happening all around you, that way you wont be so surprised when SHTF. Just saying.
Its not just Kardashians on TV. There's also this, which you want to keep an eye on: http://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2014/08/12E93800-B168-4C41-8F6E-CBAF90E2AAD1-140810-DC-Riots18-640x438.jpg Edit: About American society: 50% Divorce rate, 70% Percent Of Americans On Prescription Drugs, 22% say they drink more alochol than they should according to Gallup. So as I was saying, if you go by the national average, of USA and most other countries for that matter, you could do a lot worse than the the hippies in this movie. There's a good chance that if you pick some random 10-20 people in USA you'll end up with a few like the nice gentleman up there helping himself to some beverages. FerFAL Quoted:
Quoted:
Turn off the TV dude :) Maybe you should turn it on a tad more often and see whats happening all around you, that way you wont be so surprised when SHTF. Just saying.
Its not just Kardashians on TV. There's also this, which you want to keep an eye on: http://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2014/08/12E93800-B168-4C41-8F6E-CBAF90E2AAD1-140810-DC-Riots18-640x438.jpg Edit: About American society: 50% Divorce rate, 70% Percent Of Americans On Prescription Drugs, 22% say they drink more alochol than they should according to Gallup. So as I was saying, if you go by the national average, of USA and most other countries for that matter, you could do a lot worse than the the hippies in this movie. There's a good chance that if you pick some random 10-20 people in USA you'll end up with a few like the nice gentleman up there helping himself to some beverages. FerFAL Well, that is "community" I guess, and "you could do a lot worse" right :) Is the divorce rate lower in Arg or Ireland? Drinking? Prescription drugs I would give to the US hands down I'm sure. Be interested in the other stats. |
|
My wife and I watched it, production was okay. I would sum it up into a liberal’s view of apocalyptic utopia: California hills, surrounded by trees, a nice “alternate fuel” home with big garden and green house full of pot…
There were some good lessons actually. OPSEC is always important; firearms are tools and not some taboo deadly device that is viewed like Ebola. At least they finally found out guns and violence may very well be necessary. I did like the fact that they didn’t totally bash the prepper-guy (mostly because he fits the liberal hippie mold). He had a good stock (not well secured or kept low profile), but he was just a well prepared sheep. A couple of rogue .mil goobers punked them and. I can’t believe they would just give up as easy as they did…again a liberal’s utopian apocalypse even when the wolves are circling the house. The only aspect I thought was of significant value was how the group leader ignored his neighbor’s plea for some help and it bit him in the butt later. At the end, it was your typical reunion of sorts, but does show the value of a community working together; however, OPSEC is still critical and you never show all your cards (to anyone). If you take all the Hollywood drama and stupidity out of it, there were a few good gems to discuss. My wife said it best: those types of people wouldn’t survive long, not because of location or preparation but because of their ideological stupidity. They don't fit in with those that rely on a tighter community, hold much different values and prepare for survival and not pot-smoking, love-making in the solar-panel-warmed Jacuzzi (although it does make for a good movie, just not reality). For a rainy night Netflix, it was okay…it does make you appreciate security and firearms! ROCK6 |
| It reminded me of the Big Chill for preppers. Pot and left over drama, the one that got away. Good work.effort on stores and solar/alternatives. Poor on OPSEC, one revolver between them, no parameter security, no dogs to alert them. When the "threat" comes, they buckle under and give up the stores. Having them deliver it is the stores is the ultimate who's the bitch. Decent ending. |
|
Quoted:
My wife and I watched it, production was okay. I would sum it up into a liberal’s view of apocalyptic utopia: California hills, surrounded by trees, a nice “alternate fuel” home with big garden and green house full of pot… There were some good lessons actually. OPSEC is always important; firearms are tools and not some taboo deadly device that is viewed like Ebola. At least they finally found out guns and violence may very well be necessary. I did like the fact that they didn’t totally bash the prepper-guy (mostly because he fits the liberal hippie mold). He had a good stock (not well secured or kept low profile), but he was just a well prepared sheep. A couple of rogue .mil goobers punked them and. I can’t believe they would just give up as easy as they did…again a liberal’s utopian apocalypse even when the wolves are circling the house. The only aspect I thought was of significant value was how the group leader ignored his neighbor’s plea for some help and it bit him in the butt later. At the end, it was your typical reunion of sorts, but does show the value of a community working together; however, OPSEC is still critical and you never show all your cards (to anyone). If you take all the Hollywood drama and stupidity out of it, there were a few good gems to discuss. My wife said it best: those types of people wouldn’t survive long, not because of location or preparation but because of their ideological stupidity. They don't fit in with those that rely on a tighter community, hold much different values and prepare for survival and not pot-smoking, love-making in the solar-panel-warmed Jacuzzi (although it does make for a good movie, just not reality). For a rainy night Netflix, it was okay…it does make you appreciate security and firearms! ROCK6 Yep, that's it. The opposite true though, its equally as bad to think the world will pass you buy and if it doesn't you will fight it. The first lesson in that movie was the bikers taking the store and hippie guy paying up and letting his friend show her tits then driving off ignoring a friend being harassed and robbed. He just went back to his isolation thinking that's their problem. It was his problem. It just took longer to get around to him. If there's one lesson that our fighting for our gun rights should have taught us all is if we don't get involved and let the world go to hell around us, we deserve what we get. That doesn't mean we can't have our BOL, compound, whatever buzz word we want to call it, but it does mean we shouldn't think of it as a country because even countries have to communicate or they go to war. Ultimately the characters in the movie thought they could sit the whole thing out and not get involved. They were wrong. Other than some very short term event, the government to the rescue, so would we be. In fact, we can only sit in our caves and do nothing when times are good. Bad times, even your absence is a statement. Tj |
|
Quoted:
Maybe you should turn it on a tad more often and see whats happening all around you, that way you wont be so surprised when SHTF. Just saying.
Its not just Kardashians on TV. There's also this, which you want to keep an eye on: http://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2014/08/12E93800-B168-4C41-8F6E-CBAF90E2AAD1-140810-DC-Riots18-640x438.jpg Edit: About American society: 50% Divorce rate, 70% Percent Of Americans On Prescription Drugs, 22% say they drink more alochol than they should according to Gallup. So as I was saying, if you go by the national average, of USA and most other countries for that matter, you could do a lot worse than the the hippies in this movie. There's a good chance that if you pick some random 10-20 people in USA you'll end up with a few like the nice gentleman up there helping himself to some beverages. FerFAL Quoted:
Quoted:
Turn off the TV dude :) Maybe you should turn it on a tad more often and see whats happening all around you, that way you wont be so surprised when SHTF. Just saying.
Its not just Kardashians on TV. There's also this, which you want to keep an eye on: http://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/2014/08/12E93800-B168-4C41-8F6E-CBAF90E2AAD1-140810-DC-Riots18-640x438.jpg Edit: About American society: 50% Divorce rate, 70% Percent Of Americans On Prescription Drugs, 22% say they drink more alochol than they should according to Gallup. So as I was saying, if you go by the national average, of USA and most other countries for that matter, you could do a lot worse than the the hippies in this movie. There's a good chance that if you pick some random 10-20 people in USA you'll end up with a few like the nice gentleman up there helping himself to some beverages. FerFAL So....we gotta watch the tube to k.ow that fine upstanding Amish youths will steal wine for Sunday nights dinner....... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
Here's another one to watch my life after or some junk....
Cliff notes...girl on meds...has a family member in government /fed agency ...gets shipped to a home fir kids in the country...its love story...meets lord of the rings vs bad military guys iirc...doesn't take place here though ...in Europe. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
Watched the movie the other night. Garbage but entertaining, even if the entertainment value was in the disdain for the characters in the movie.
There is absolutely no way that even a California hippie would have that much shit stocked up and NOT own even a basic pump shotgun. No way, none. There is also no way that said hippie would suddenly flip the fuck out over someone having a gun in a SHTF scenario. Watching the smoke of cities burning in the distance has zero effect on their morale and thought processes. They toss down lawn chairs, get drunk and talk about their feelings, on the crest of a hillside that is plainly visible to the valley below. The only security or overwatch they have for their entire little farm, is a trip device set up on a single fence gate. Last but not least, armed biker gangs taking control of the local grocery store is not enough of a warning that shit is serious, and that leftover college drama is no longer important. Also: some may not have caught it, but the black "terrorist" guy is a very sympathetic portrayal of someone who was involved in the Arab Spring or other ME terrorist groups, presumably as a bomb maker - since building improvised electronics devices is his area of expertise, which he learned in the ME, but won't say exactly in what capacity. The only redeeming part was where the homeowner dude starts to smarten up near the end of the movie, and tells his wife to get fucked, because he realizes the seriousness of the situation - despite the fact that all of his friends are still mainly concened with drinking, smoking pot, and hanging out in the hot tub. Unfortunately his solution to his problems is still to load up his truck with everything that his neighbors demand he give to them, simply because of two armed rogue guardsmen with bad attitudes. Then the ex-con drifter adjunct professor hops on his motorcycle, as if he has somewhere better to go, because the drama is too much for him. It was basically a 30-something relationship drama with post-apocalyptic elements written into the story by someone who has probably never lived outside of LA. |
|
Quoted:
The first lesson in that movie was the bikers taking the store and hippie guy paying up and letting his friend show her tits then driving off ignoring a friend being harassed and robbed. He just went back to his isolation thinking that's their problem. It was his problem. It just took longer to get around to him. If there's one lesson that our fighting for our gun rights should have taught us all is if we don't get involved and let the world go to hell around us, we deserve what we get. That doesn't mean we can't have our BOL, compound, whatever buzz word we want to call it, but it does mean we shouldn't think of it as a country because even countries have to communicate or they go to war. Ultimately the characters in the movie thought they could sit the whole thing out and not get involved. They were wrong. Other than some very short term event, the government to the rescue, so would we be. In fact, we can only sit in our caves and do nothing when times are good. Bad times, even your absence is a statement. Tj I completely forgot that scene in the convenience store not to mention the other scene where one of his neighbors was getting bullied and robbed…the prepper-hippie did nothing. You’re spot on TJ that you can prep as a lone-wolf, but you won’t survive as one. The wolves will eventually be at your door…a community is a must for long term survival. ROCK6 |
|
I agree with TJ on this one, this was a really good movie. Sure you can get bogged down on the smoking/drinking, drama, or lack of security issues, but that is really missing the point of the movie. The real premise was that if you don't step up and provide some type influence in your community then someone will, and chances are that wont be in your or the community's best interest. The main character had several opportunity to Help out his neighbors and when he fell short the wonder twins stepped up to the plate. If he would have just been a good neighbor from the beginning then they never would have had a foot hold, and would have been so out numbered that they would have moved on or folded into the community. Really they were not pure evil as they felt some remorse in there first meeting with the main group. They could have just burned everyone down and took what they wanted the first go around, but instead they hooked up with the bottom neighbors and started to turn them on to there ideas of "how it should be". In essence those two needed the community a lot more than the community needed them, if only to keep living on the gravy train. People need People, and we are the best and hardest prep to come by. For all the faults of the main group they did get it somewhat right in the end, but what do you think would happen had the biker gang turned around...
|