Posted: 11/30/2013 4:51:09 PM EDT
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I tried to figure the best way to title the thread without seeming like I was talking about a Mad Max/tons of death situation.
What I'm actually looking to discuss is how to deal with bodies during a SHTF, specifically in colder climates where the ground might be frozen. I've dug grave-sized holes in warmer times...it SUCKS!! Basically took all my effort and energy that day. When the ground is frozen it wouldn't work by hand. Only other thing I can think of is burning in a barrel or something. But lets say its your wife, brother, etc...are you seriously going to dump them in and burn them? But what are the options you see with such a situation assuming it's a SHTF lasting more than a day or two (so you can't just set them out in the garage until the coroner/funeral home can pay a visit)...and bacterial/disease might be a real concern due to decomposition and such? Thanks -Emt1581 |
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Quoted:
I tried to figure the best way to title the thread without seeming like I was talking about a Mad Max/tons of death situation. What I'm actually looking to discuss is how to deal with bodies during a SHTF, specifically in colder climates where the ground might be frozen. I've dug grave-sized holes in warmer times...it SUCKS!! Basically took all my effort and energy that day. When the ground is frozen it wouldn't work by hand. Only other thing I can think of is burning in a barrel or something. But lets say its your wife, brother, etc...are you seriously going to dump them in and burn them? But what are the options you see with such a situation assuming it's a SHTF lasting more than a day or two (so you can't just set them out in the garage until the coroner/funeral home can pay a visit)...and bacterial/disease might be a real concern due to decomposition and such? Thanks -Emt1581 Ruff subject. Still see nothing wrong with a traditional burial. Just not near your water source or garden. |
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You need to do more research on what they did nineteenth century and prior. Many options. on a phone so I won't type it all out here. Like pits with lime?? And how would you determine where the communal pit was? Again, for aunt flo or someone you don't know...fine. For someone close to you? Now if this wasn't what you were referring to, hop on when you get home and type it out for us. 
-Emt1581 |
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Quoted: Like pits with lime?? And how would you determine where the communal pit was? Again, for aunt flo or someone you don't know...fine. For someone close to you? Now if this wasn't what you were referring to, hop on when you get home and type it out for us. -Emt1581 Quoted: Quoted: You need to do more research on what they did nineteenth century and prior. Many options. on a phone so I won't type it all out here. Like pits with lime?? And how would you determine where the communal pit was? Again, for aunt flo or someone you don't know...fine. For someone close to you? Now if this wasn't what you were referring to, hop on when you get home and type it out for us. -Emt1581 Put body in snow bank in the shade. Bury in spring ASAP. Have done this with goats. Worked fine. You do need to keep covering with snow in spring until burial possible. Hay is a great insulator. Other cold storage options have been used throughout history. Some based on root cellar type purpose built rooms. This was common in our area for the Swedish settlers here in the late 1800's. Make a family crypt. Burial above ground. Cremation. Yes, cremation. Big bonfire. Some cultures do "sky" burials that live in high frozen mountain regions. You can use google for that one. I could not do this to a loved one. Chip through the frozen ground, depending on depth of frost. Usually a group effort. I have actually heard that they used to "pre dig" graves for winter use. Kind of morbid, but.. Death sucks, but is an unfortunate fact of life.
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I'm prepared, I have a stash of body bags.
Seriously, if the ground is frozen, and you don''t have access to heavy equipment (trackhoes can usually dig native frozen soil), you will have to wait for the burial. But the temperature will prevent decomposition We had at work a huge stash of Milspec body bags, make of very heavy vinyl. When we got on. rid of them, I took some home to use to make waterproof covers. But they would still work for their intended use. The big problem woul be in the city, where the green space is limited without fuel to take them elsewhere, |
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Quoted: I'm prepared, I have a stash of body bags. Seriously, if the ground is frozen, and you don''t have access to heavy equipment (trackhoes can usually dig native frozen soil), you will have to wait for the burial. But the temperature will prevent decomposition We had at work a huge stash of Milspec body bags, make of very heavy vinyl. When we got on. rid of them, I took some home to use to make waterproof covers. But they would still work for their intended use. The big problem woul be in the city, where the green space is limited without fuel to take them elsewhere, Although, that has ALWAYS been the problem with cities, hasn't it? No matter what you are talking about, or at any point in history, city life is completely dependent on the system.
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I would try to tamper with the body as little as possible. If you have to move it for sanitary reasons, take pictures of the body as you found it and if possible get a witness or two of what happened, writing down theire name and adress. Worst case scenario, burning it may be considered an attempt of destroying evidence so I would bury it instead in a clealry marked grave along with its ID or anythign that can be used to identify it later on.
FerFAL |
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In AK they wait til spring, it is too hard on equipment to justify digging, so keep them cold and wait til the ground thaws, if you're sticking around.
Burn them if you'll be leaving. Or commit them to the water, assuming it's more than a trickle or puddle it will deal with it rapidly, unless everybody is doing it, in which case it's already ruined as a source anyway. Or realize it is just a body now, not the person you loved, and find somewhere it won't draw predators near you or be seen/smelled by you, and move on. |
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If the ground is frozen, then the outside is refrigerator. Temporary, bag it and store it out of sight. Long-term, bury it either bagged or in a casket in a marked grave. Trash bags, one up and one down, will work, and simply tie off the center to limit contamination. If a family member, its not hard to come up with enough boards and supplies to make a simple casket. People have been doing this for centuries and in 3rd World countries still do.
BTW, Frozen ground is not much of an obstetrical, once you get below the frost line, its the same summer or winter. Graves are not easy to dig as I'm sure Nuh will tell you. Still its one of those gotta do things in life sometimes. Tj |
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Burning them is not as simple as you think. You will be left with a charred corpse and the smell will be horrendous. To actually make a body disappear you need higher temps than an open fire will deliver.
I wonder if you could light a fire to defrost the earth in one spot so you could dig a grave. |
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Burning them is not as simple as you think. You will be left with a charred corpse and the smell will be horrendous. To actually make a body disappear you need higher temps than an open fire will deliver. I wonder if you could light a fire to defrost the earth in one spot so you could dig a grave. That actually is something I never thought of. Like have a small bon-fire to thaw out the ground and then dig there. However, as heat rises, I'm wondering how far such a thing would penetrate? Thanks -Emt1581 |
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Burning them is not as simple as you think. You will be left with a charred corpse and the smell will be horrendous. To actually make a body disappear you need higher temps than an open fire will deliver. I wonder if you could light a fire to defrost the earth in one spot so you could dig a grave. I agree. Cremation requires an extremely large amount of fuel. Fuel which you probably wouldn't want to use in such a way, even if you could "deploy" it in such a way as to get the right temps. If the deceased is frozen, then you've got lots of time to figure it out. If not, well you're going to be busy digging, doing a burial "at sea" (so to speak), or just leaving them. |
My dad has told me before a bulldozer works wonders to bury a few hundred dead VC Yes, he had to do that
Nah, in all seriousness, a backhoe, don't have one handy, looks like a pick, gubbin hoe, and a shovel. Doesn't have to be 6' down, just enough to cover up the stink. Ground froze?? wait for ground to thaw, and dig. |
You will need a lot of propane or NG to burn up a body, and there are still the bones. At a crematorium the bones are ground after cremation and added to the ashes. I vote for a Viking burial, but that is just for the cool factor.  Burial at sea or in a lake should be considered, it just needs to be a very large body of water.
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Quoted: That actually is something I never thought of. Like have a small bon-fire to thaw out the ground and then dig there. However, as heat rises, I'm wondering how far such a thing would penetrate? Thanks -Emt1581 Quoted: Quoted: Burning them is not as simple as you think. You will be left with a charred corpse and the smell will be horrendous. To actually make a body disappear you need higher temps than an open fire will deliver. I wonder if you could light a fire to defrost the earth in one spot so you could dig a grave. That actually is something I never thought of. Like have a small bon-fire to thaw out the ground and then dig there. However, as heat rises, I'm wondering how far such a thing would penetrate? Thanks -Emt1581 You can also leave a round bale or two in a spot to keep a section of ground from freezing for this purpose. Hay is a great insulator. I would never to a sea burial in a lake, unless is it a big ass lake. If other people start doing it as well, you are going to pollute your water source darn quick. IMHO, waiting till spring requires the least amount of resources, and I know from experience it works.
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Pre-dig before the frost sets in?
When the frost gets two or three feet in the only thing I've seen go through it is a huge excavator with REALLY sharp teeth. Planning ahead in warm weather (If you can't bring yourselves to feed a dead person to the pigs) would really be your best bet. |
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Told my loved one, if I die burn my body if possible. I also told her to not put me in the ground. Take my body to the woods, hook up some electrical wires to my skull and hope to god I don't get reanimated because if I do, I'm totally fucking your sister.
Edit... We have issues |
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Quoted:
Burning them is not as simple as you think. You will be left with a charred corpse and the smell will be horrendous. To actually make a body disappear you need higher temps than an open fire will deliver. I wonder if you could light a fire to defrost the earth in one spot so you could dig a grave. |
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Quoted:
Told my loved one, if I die burn my body if possible. I also told her to not put me in the ground. Take my body to the woods, hook up some electrical wires to my skull and hope to god I don't get reanimated because if I do, I'm totally fucking your sister. Edit... We have issues |