Posted: 10/4/2013 7:07:09 PM EDT
|
I need a new winter coat and I was looking at getting either the M-65 field jacket or a new ECWS jacket. I'm not in the military and I don't care to wear camo everywhere so I would prefer to get one in black. 1. Are any of the black ones actually used by the military or are they all commercial market stuff? 2. Also, how do the commercial market ones compare to the "mil spec" versions. Being an engineer for a DOD contractor I know that "Mil Spec" doesn't always mean that it's the best out there. It mostly means that it's tried and true.
|
|
I don't think they even make M65's for the military anymore. Anything you find that's a genuine article is probably going to be used.
I have no idea how to tell if it's issued or a copy. Probably check to see if it's made in China. That being said, get an M65 style, throw a liner in it, and you're good to go. I was issued the woodland goretex jackets back in the early 2000's, they didn't insulate worth a damn, worse when they got wet. Military bearsuits are REALLY warm, but I'm not sure if they fare that well in the waterproof department. |
|
Just keep in mind that an M65 is an uninsulated cotton jacket with only a lining.
If you want insulation you will need to button in a liner. They are not particularly warm if you live in a place where you experience an honest to G*d winter. So expect to layer well underneath it. |
|
Quoted: I would just get a carhartt or walls branded artic weight coat. they are not waterproof, but mine have served me well. I have a black M65, and have for nearly ten years. Picked it up at a Jax Surplus in Colorado. Other than color/pattern, it's exactly like my issue jacket, and has held up very well. The liner makes it GTG down to around zero Fahrenheit. If you can still find one, get it a size large so you can layer underneath it. That said, Sears (at least a couple of years ago) sells a Craftsman jacket, in black, that just curb stomps the M65 for both warmth and durability. When I picked up the one I did, it was on Christmas sale for about $100, and worth every nickel. Doesn't have the upper pockets, and the side pockets don't have button flaps. |
|
I have a black Propper M65, and I dont think it's the same as an issue jacket.
Actually, I have 2 OD M65s that my dad was issued during Vietnam, and NONE of the newer M65s (used surplus or new aftermarket) are of the same material or quality of my dads old ones. I never found them to be all that warm anyway. They certainly arent my choice for a winter coat here in Northern NY (we get -30 temps here in the winter). Doubt they would be what you would want in SD either. Years back I picked up a cheap (probably Chinese) copy of the newer, shiny green material flight jackets. I have to say, that was one if the warmest, lightest coats I've ever worn. I assume the 'real deal' versions would be even better. |
|
Quoted:
I need a new winter coat and I was looking at getting either the M-65 field jacket or a new ECWS jacket.I'm not in the military and I don't care to wear camo everywhere so I would prefer to get one in black. 1. Are any of the black ones actually used by the military or are they all commercial market stuff? 2. Also, how do the commercial market ones compare to the "mil spec" versions. Being an engineer for a DOD contractor I know that "Mil Spec" doesn't always mean that it's the best out there. It mostly means that it's tried and true. Last year I got a nice black North Face. Its warm, black and keeps me dry in the Irish weather so you could say its pretty water proof. 
North Face isnt what it used to be but it is still a good solid brand in my opinion. Arc'Teryx probably makes the best "technical" clothing, but it wont be cheap. FerFAL |
| All the M-65's I've seen recently- the commercial ones- have paled in comparison to the old military ones. For the $ you could do better unless you want one for the style or for old times sake. I like them but honestly at this point I'd probably be more inclined to buy a decent repro of an M-43 coat instead. |
|
I have yet to see a commercial M-65 jacket, even those made by mfrs of GI M-65 jackets that were the equal in quality of the GI version. Most fall far short.
Unless you can find a good used GI jacket, then forget the civvy clones as a bad job. GI issue M-65s were OD, Woodland, and 3-color Desert, IIRC. GI jackets were sized large so that not only a liner could be buttoned-in, but a sweater as well. For example, I have a 46 chest, but a Med GI M-65 fits me all right. No spare room for insulation/layers, but all right. There is also the fact that GI jackets were issued in lengths, such as short, reg, and long, while the clones are generally reg. I sold-off a pristine, original USGI M1943 Field Jacket. You can't even begin to expect to duplicate the tightly-woven cotton sateen of the originals in the crude clones offered nowadays. If the jackets are true to the M-1943 pattern, there are no buttons for a liner, either. Not nearly the jacket that the M-65 is, and I've worn both, not to mention the versions in between, and the different liners, too. Local to me surplus store has lots of original m-65s, but that does you scant good. |
|
I go to Sierratradingpost.com for winter jackets. Columbia stuff blows away anything the military ever issued for winter gear and they offer many different colors and features that will keep you dry, warm and new age fibers for wicking. My black one has plenty of pockets and a nice chest pocket for a pistol. They even have fleece zip in pieces so you can have 3 jackets in one. A shell, a fleece jacket, or the two together.
When I was in the Guard here in MN, they didn't issue the extreme cold weather gear, but I had most of it and it works OK--as long as it was cold and dry anyway. They had most everyone bring their own stuff from home. Sorel boots and Golden Gopher hats had most looking like a Viking tailgate party, and not a winter excersise  It was -22f for the low those two nights and certainly a good guage on how to handle yourself.
|
|
Quoted: Columbia stuff blows away anything the military ever issued for winter gear and they offer many different colors and features that will keep you dry, warm and new age fibers for wicking.  FUCK YOU!!! My waffle top and smoking jacket are AWESOME pieces of issued cold weather gear!!!....but yeah you're right 99.9% of everything else is complete shit that they issue us as far as cold weather gear goes. |
|
Quoted: The M65 blows. It's water repellent until the first time it gets wet. Get stuck with a wet field jacket in cold, rainy weather for a few days, and then tell me how awesome the M65 is. Meh. Spray it, it's not like there aren't a couple of dozen different cheap waterproofing sprays commonly available. Even so, I've never had the problem you describe, and I've been in some pretty gnarly downpours. Then again, I never wear it without the liner. Also, I've got four of the things-- three issue jackets, and the black one. The newest of them is nearly ten years old, the oldest past fifteen. I'm seeing no difference in wear or durability between any of them. I did pick up a black one previous to the one I have now. Got it at a army surplus. It was every bit the piece of crap Raf purported it to be. Yep, Chinese made. The one I've got now looks military, feels military, and wears military. It's not just a re-dyed surplus either, the cloth is actually black, and has withstood multiple machine washings. Size is Regular long. Again, this thing is nearly ten years old, and I have no clue whether they're still available, but they were once. |
|
+1 on the M-65 not being a very warm jacket, overall.
You could always get an N3B if you needed something for real cold, but the used ones bring a mint and the made in china new ones seem like crap to me. Just go for a Columbia. Way better, waterproof, more pockets, and extremely durable. If you have an REI anywhere near you they will have plenty of different brands and types to choose from, and they will be real winter coats. |
|
Got out my Woodland M-65 for squirrel hunting today and was reminded how great it is. Protected against briars, thorns, light rain and winds perfectly in about 45-deg conditions, no liner. Was never cold and was very comfy. With a liner I'd be good a little blew freezing I'm sure.
Edit: Mine is an Alpha Industries, made in Korea. 50/50 Nylon/cotton shell, 60/40 Poly/Cotton liner. I have a liner for it but rarely wear it as I wear a a heavier parka in the winter. |
|
I have an arctic lined Carhartt for years now. It's not canvas it looks like it's polyester or something and while it's not exactly waterproof you somehow stay dry in it. The shell will be soaked but you'll still be dry inside. If it's really cold (-20) I'll wear a couple sweatshirts under it. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
You can take the fur off if you want. These n3b models by alpha were designed for the long range tactical bomber crews. They do a great job at insulating and come in many colours, black being one of them. I also own a newer (plastic zipper) propper brand M65 Field Jacket which I really like, but the Jacket made by Alpha is much warmer. HTR |
|
Im my experience, neither one is all that warm (stand alone)(maybe I'm a pussy) so get one you can layer/liner under.
I assume it gets pretty cold in SD, only been there in the summer. If you end up with an ECWCS ( a surplus one) make sure you wash and, re-treat it. And don't be stupid like me and skim over the directions, I found out the dryer is the secret. (I'm pretty sure raf told me this, and I got all ADD) Ever since I re treated mine propperly, I like it way more. (it is just an outer shell by the way, you probably already know that, just sayin') Wet out, or whatever they call it, when the jacket gets sponge-ified, is WAY less an issue now, and it's pretty damn good in the rain. (not like a rubber raincoat, but pretty good) I've even used it for short moto-trips in the rain. |
|
Quoted:
I need a new winter coat and I was looking at getting either the M-65 field jacket or a new ECWS jacket.I'm not in the military and I don't care to wear camo everywhere so I would prefer to get one in black. 1. Are any of the black ones actually used by the military or are they all commercial market stuff? 2. Also, how do the commercial market ones compare to the "mil spec" versions. Being an engineer for a DOD contractor I know that "Mil Spec" doesn't always mean that it's the best out there. It mostly means that it's tried and true. ECWCS, if it's what I'm thinking, is a shell only. If you're looking at a level 7 "Puffie" jacket, I think they're OD (or foliage, or whatever). M-65 needs a liner, and even then it's maybe good to the 30's. OK for an outer shell. You can buy liners from Wiggy's that are warmer than the standard issue polyester fill. In fact, I keep waiting for the weather to chill so I can break out my liner! |
|
Quoted:
Im my experience, neither one is all that warm (stand alone)(maybe I'm a pussy) so get one you can layer/liner under. . As originally conceived (M43) they were meant to be worn in a layering system. The shell layer was the field jacket and it was meant to be a wi barrier for the most part though it had some rain resistance(you had rubberized rain wear back then for real wet weather). You are meant to adjust for the weather by adding sweaters, long underwear or whatever. You'd have the field jacket and maybe a liner- then a wool sweater, wool shirt and wool blend long underwear. At one point it was even meant to be worn over a Ike jacket. http://www.atthefront.com/historical_reference_us_M1943_Field_Uniforms.html Without layering and with just the liner it is good for modest cold weather. I like the old field jackets they are a real piece of American history- an iconic American creation. 
That is a pic of my grandfather and his buddies in WWII. You can get an idea of the layering that went on back then, wool shirts, sweaters etc. All close fitting to layer well . Wear a wool Duofold Henley shirt and a wool sweater with a M65 and a liner and you'll be plenty warm for most conditions. Add a wool Filson or Woolrich shirt and you'll be too warm for any strenuous activities down to ~0 That is when you might have to think about layers over the M-65. |
|
I'm not opposed to going the Columbia/North Face route. I just thought that I could perhaps get good quality for a lower price with the surplus route but I want to get something I'll be happy with for many years to come. Any good outlet stores in the Twin Cities area I could find a good deal at?
|
|
Quoted:
You'd do much better to get a civi fleece garment and a good lightweight waterproof/breathable shell. Can be had in neutral colors/earthtones. I would second this. The only advantage an M65 is going to have over that combination is that the M65 will survive abuse that will shred most waterproof jackets to bits. You can get by pretty well with a traditional field jacket shell (I like the German ones, those like many EU surplus jackets can be had in plain green/gray), a fleece, and some sort of waterproof outer shell. |
| I've been using the M-65 for years. Take the Labs out three times a day in all weathers. Gets really cold I wear a hoodie or fleece top under the jacket and liner. Once it gets below zero I break out the down parka. Wearing the M-65 hunting with an orange vest or hiking once you get warmed up you can take the liner out. i bought a commercial black M-65 for regular wear when out shopping, movies, etc, and the jacket itself doen't seem as heavy as the military version but it still lasts forever. Lots of pockets which I miss once the weather warms up. i have a 10x gore tex parka with removable liner for when it rains. |
|
Commercial civilian products are superior to the M65 in every department except durability and flame resistance.
The old "cotton kills" mantra does not apply anywhere near fire. I have a bunch of modern synthetic jackets and sweaters, and I have several with holes burned in them, or briars have shredded. |
|
They issue ACU pattern M-65's...they are still kicking.
I've had a few. They are just "ok" in very cold weather. If you're getting in and out of a car, fine. If you're going to be out for hours and it's windy, wet and cold...forget it. For the money, get a Carhart Extremes C55 coat, artic lining in black codura....done deal. |
|
Quoted:
As originally conceived (M43) they were meant to be worn in a layering system. The shell layer was the field jacket and it was meant to be a wi barrier for the most part though it had some rain resistance(you had rubberized rain wear back then for real wet weather). You are meant to adjust for the weather by adding sweaters, long underwear or whatever. You'd have the field jacket and maybe a liner- then a wool sweater, wool shirt and wool blend long underwear. At one point it was even meant to be worn over a Ike jacket. http://www.atthefront.com/historical_reference_us_M1943_Field_Uniforms.html Without layering and with just the liner it is good for modest cold weather. I like the old field jackets they are a real piece of American history- an iconic American creation. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/sepp45/266th%20Combat%20Engineers%2066thth%20Infantry%20Division/0bcbc05c-9f1b-4c6b-bdce-d79267606bed_zpse477b089.jpg That is a pic of my grandfather and his buddies in WWII. You can get an idea of the layering that went on back then, wool shirts, sweaters etc. All close fitting to layer well . Wear a wool Duofold Henley shirt and a wool sweater with a M65 and a liner and you'll be plenty warm for most conditions. Add a wool Filson or Woolrich shirt and you'll be too warm for any strenuous activities down to ~0 That is when you might have to think about layers over the M-65. Quoted:
Quoted:
Im my experience, neither one is all that warm (stand alone)(maybe I'm a pussy) so get one you can layer/liner under. . As originally conceived (M43) they were meant to be worn in a layering system. The shell layer was the field jacket and it was meant to be a wi barrier for the most part though it had some rain resistance(you had rubberized rain wear back then for real wet weather). You are meant to adjust for the weather by adding sweaters, long underwear or whatever. You'd have the field jacket and maybe a liner- then a wool sweater, wool shirt and wool blend long underwear. At one point it was even meant to be worn over a Ike jacket. http://www.atthefront.com/historical_reference_us_M1943_Field_Uniforms.html Without layering and with just the liner it is good for modest cold weather. I like the old field jackets they are a real piece of American history- an iconic American creation. http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l119/sepp45/266th%20Combat%20Engineers%2066thth%20Infantry%20Division/0bcbc05c-9f1b-4c6b-bdce-d79267606bed_zpse477b089.jpg That is a pic of my grandfather and his buddies in WWII. You can get an idea of the layering that went on back then, wool shirts, sweaters etc. All close fitting to layer well . Wear a wool Duofold Henley shirt and a wool sweater with a M65 and a liner and you'll be plenty warm for most conditions. Add a wool Filson or Woolrich shirt and you'll be too warm for any strenuous activities down to ~0 That is when you might have to think about layers over the M-65. awesome picture |