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Posted: 9/22/2013 9:14:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
grizzly bears? 308. Just a FYI the Inuit hunt/defend from polar bears with mini 14 in .223.... 
It can be done. |
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Posted: 9/22/2013 10:59:28 AM EDT
[#2]
5.56 with a 6.8 as a backup.
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Posted: 9/22/2013 5:02:58 PM EDT
[#3]
223/5.56 if not that then 7.62X39
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Posted: 9/22/2013 6:51:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like it for woods carry also. With a 125 grain bullet (2100 fps) from a 9" barrel, I can take game out to 200 yards and with 220 g Bullet I can add my suppressor and do what ever else needs to be done. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 300 Blackout!! Best caliber ever for home defense!!! I like it for woods carry also. With a 125 grain bullet (2100 fps) from a 9" barrel, I can take game out to 200 yards and with 220 g Bullet I can add my suppressor and do what ever else needs to be done. And it's literally EVERYWHERE! I tripped over two 1000-round cases walking the dog around the block today. It was falling off a .300 Blackout tree.
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Posted: 9/23/2013 7:25:27 AM EDT
[#5]
For me personally its 223. My M4 weighs half of what my Socom 16 does plus I have much more 223 rounds than 308.
If I remember correct 4 loaded 20 round M1A mags weigh the same as 6 loaded 30 round P-Mags. |
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Posted: 9/23/2013 7:34:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And it's literally EVERYWHERE! I tripped over two 1000-round cases walking the dog around the block today. It was falling off a .300 Blackout tree. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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300 Blackout!! Best caliber ever for home defense!!! I like it for woods carry also. With a 125 grain bullet (2100 fps) from a 9" barrel, I can take game out to 200 yards and with 220 g Bullet I can add my suppressor and do what ever else needs to be done. And it's literally EVERYWHERE! I tripped over two 1000-round cases walking the dog around the block today. It was falling off a .300 Blackout tree. What were you doing in my yard? 
Seriously, the beauty of 300 blackout is that you can convert 223 brass to 300 BLK. Using pulled M80 bullets, I can load 1000 rounds for $280. This has allowed me to build up quite the stash. Have you seen 5.56 ammo for $280 per K lately? |
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Posted: 9/23/2013 7:41:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And it's literally EVERYWHERE! I tripped over two 1000-round cases walking the dog around the block today. It was falling off a .300 Blackout tree. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
300 Blackout!! Best caliber ever for home defense!!! I like it for woods carry also. With a 125 grain bullet (2100 fps) from a 9" barrel, I can take game out to 200 yards and with 220 g Bullet I can add my suppressor and do what ever else needs to be done. And it's literally EVERYWHERE! I tripped over two 1000-round cases walking the dog around the block today. It was falling off a .300 Blackout tree. local cabelas had it when they didn't have 5.56. |
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Posted: 9/23/2013 7:50:13 AM EDT
[#8]
.308 I have more of it and shoot better with it.
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Posted: 9/23/2013 7:53:42 AM EDT
[#9]
I'd go for the 5.56. More rounds, cheaper, faster follow-ups, lighter, plus the round is more prevalent. I'm not much for counting on battlefield pickups because I have a hard time imagining any realistic situation where I'm more concerned with picking up ammo from a corpse than I am safe shelter, food, and water.
The .308 gives you more distance and, with the right round, more penetration. Those two aren't enough advantages to make me give up the 5.56. And that's why I stow an SU-16C in my GHB. How many of you have a .308 in yours? -Emt1581 |
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Posted: 9/23/2013 8:31:36 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What were you doing in my yard? Seriously, the beauty of 300 blackout is that you can convert 223 brass to 300 BLK. Using pulled M80 bullets, I can load 1000 rounds for $280. This has allowed me to build up quite the stash. Have you seen 5.56 ammo for $280 per K lately? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 300 Blackout!! Best caliber ever for home defense!!! I like it for woods carry also. With a 125 grain bullet (2100 fps) from a 9" barrel, I can take game out to 200 yards and with 220 g Bullet I can add my suppressor and do what ever else needs to be done. And it's literally EVERYWHERE! I tripped over two 1000-round cases walking the dog around the block today. It was falling off a .300 Blackout tree. What were you doing in my yard? Seriously, the beauty of 300 blackout is that you can convert 223 brass to 300 BLK. Using pulled M80 bullets, I can load 1000 rounds for $280. This has allowed me to build up quite the stash. Have you seen 5.56 ammo for $280 per K lately? Which is fine in a static situation, where you've bugged in with your reloading set-up an your stash of components or out to a fully equipped BOL and have a situation that enables reloading. But if you were forced from your static position with just the ammunition you could carry, all the 5.56mm / .223 brass in the world wouldn't do you any good when you had to scrounge / glean for resupply while on the move. "SHTF" covers a wide range of potentialities, from a 3-day power outage to a comet hitting the Earth. For a lot of "SHTF" situations, the average person would not really even need more than their daily CCW piece (hurricanes, snowstorms, floods, etc.). But in the extreme possibilities, that's another story. |
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Posted: 9/23/2013 8:37:54 AM EDT
[#11]
5.56 AR
Easier to make follow-up shots, easier for others to fire accurately, ability to use a .22 conversion kit. It is smaller and more compact thereby making it better suited for travel as you stated. Proper ammo selection for the target increases effectiveness over just using 55gr FMJ. |
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Posted: 9/23/2013 9:02:51 AM EDT
[#12]
My current plan is converting my AR's to the LMT MRP platform and having multiple barrels in different calibers they can all use.
I'm working on 2 SBR carbines and a rifle length upper, each with optics and around 8-10 barrels they can share, using 6 different calibers. I have an AR10 in .308 also. If I wasn't in Afghanistan right now I would have it complete already, but so far I have barrels, mags, and adapters for 5.56 (SBR and fullsize) 9mm 22LR 6.8SPCII .300 Blackout 5.45x39 7.62x39 If i could find a barrel and mag adapter in .45ACP I would go for that too. This way I can have multiple calibers and barrel lengths without having to build/buy multiple uppers and optics. In fact, i'm selling all my uppers in these calibers to consolidate to these three platforms. One of the benefits is that this can all fit easily in my car in a single normal sized bag and give me any option or caliber I need on the fly, be it on a range or during an emergency. |
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Posted: 9/23/2013 9:11:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 5.56 all day with a heaver bullet. Something in the 75 or 77grain flavor. End of story. I'd like to add to this - with 5.56 I'm more likely to find ammo in a SHTF situation than a .308, so there's another plus. |
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Posted: 9/23/2013 1:09:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryWhich is fine in a static situation, where you've bugged in with your reloading set-up an your stash of components or out to a fully equipped BOL and have a situation that enables reloading.
But if you were forced from your static position with just the ammunition you could carry, all the 5.56mm / .223 brass in the world wouldn't do you any good when you had to scrounge / glean for resupply while on the move. "SHTF" covers a wide range of potentialities, from a 3-day power outage to a comet hitting the Earth. For a lot of "SHTF" situations, the average person would not really even need more than their daily CCW piece (hurricanes, snowstorms, floods, etc.). But in the extreme possibilities, that's another story. I'm not a fan of reloading during a SHTF event. I'd rather have an ample supply built up before then. If I'm bugging in, then I would pick a 300 BLK AR or 7.62 AK If bugging out, 5.56 is king for the aforementioned reasons. |
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Posted: 9/23/2013 1:37:05 PM EDT
[#15]
If I was never going to hump it, I would pick 7.62 but if I was going to do any moving around at all it would be 5.56. Weight makes a large difference.
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Posted: 9/23/2013 5:55:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Okay, imagine this...the world has officially gone the SHTF route, with plagues, zombies, grizzly bears, and Jehovahs Witnesses constantly banging on your door, and because you now have to pile into the car and get the hell out of Dodge you open up your gun safe to grab the one rifle you'll need. The one rifle with the most versatility to handle everything from zombie Jehovahs Witnesses to zombie grizzly bears. Problem is, you have two rifles; one chambered in .223 (AR-15, MINI-14, or what have you) and one chambered in .308 (M1A, CETME, HK-91, FN-FAL, or what have you). You can only pick one. Which one do you pick? YES, the AR-15 is lighter than most of the .308 throwers but you're not carrying it while marching out into the bushes like in Vietnam. At worst you'll keep it hidden until someone forces you to introduce them to your little friend. YES, the AR-15 carries more ammo and has a better rate of fire, but in most cases you'll need to fire two or three shots to neutralize something with an AR-15 that can be neutralized by the raw power of a single 7.62 shot. YES, the .308 can punch clean through things that the .223 can't (cars, grizzlys, buildings, or what have you), but what are the odds we'll need to kill something hiding behind a Volkswagon? In short, for every legitimate viewpoint for one, there seems to be an equally legitimate reason to go with the other. So I ask you, what is the consensus here; in a SHTF situation, which one would be better, 223 or .308? Let the arguments commense. I have no favoratism myself because I have both. That fact that you are asking this question leads me to believe that you have not trained with both. Train and you will find the answers to your questions. The problem with accepting answers from complete strangers online (though some of us have been there and done that) is that even if it is accurate information, it may still not work for you. Equipment, including weapon selection is often not a "one size fits all" when it comes to the citizen soldier, survivalist, whatever. Based on your above stated scenario: You might start off piling in your car, but at some point you will end up on foot. How far can you walk with your SHTF Load? Grab the one that you can use the best and I'm not referring to "from the bench." Which one did everyone else "piling in the car" pick? What makes you think you won't be "marching out in to the bushes?" Will it always be hidden? What if enemy contact is eminent? Wouldn't a ready position be more prudent in this case? At worst... has nothing to do with hiding your weapon. Odds are good you will need to "address" someone intent on harming you while they're utilizing cover. "In short, for every legitimate viewpoint for one, there seems to be an equally legitimate reason to go with the other." I completely agree with the above statement "if" you are physically and operationally capable with both. FWIW, I have carried the M82, M240, M60, SR25, M24, M16A2 & M4 professionally and in theatre. I would grab the AR/5.56mm and go in heavy. Give Em Hell GoodOlDave! SEMPER FI/RLTW |
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Posted: 9/23/2013 8:09:11 PM EDT
[#17]
I chose 308 for myself, my SHTF rifle is a Sig 716 which I have plenty of mags and ammo for. The rest of my family will be carrying 5.56 AR-15's. I like the added punch and range of the 308, and since I'm the only one who really shoots in my family their rifles will be used primarily if escape and evade tactics do not work. My plan is to have some 308 rounds in each of their BOB's as well.
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Posted: 9/25/2013 4:38:43 PM EDT
[#18]
Well a 7.62 will turn cover into concealment but is heavy.
5.56 is easy to carry twice the load out. If I was bugging in 7.62. Bugging out 5.56 |
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Posted: 9/25/2013 5:32:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.308 I have more of it and shoot better with it. I was just abt to say the same thing abt .22! |
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Posted: 9/26/2013 3:48:59 AM EDT
[#20]
5.56/223 AR as MBR. with .22 conversion
Followed by a 6.8 spc AR then a 7.62 x 39 AK and a 338 win mag for long range With the except of the 338 and 6.8, ammo should almost always be available. |
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Posted: 9/26/2013 4:57:57 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5.56/223 AR as MBR. with .22 conversion Followed by a 6.8 spc AR then a 7.62 x 39 AK and a 338 win mag for long range With the except of the 338 and 6.8, ammo should almost always be available. 6 months ago, 338 Win mag was the only caliber of those listed that could be found |
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Posted: 9/26/2013 7:50:10 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd go for the 5.56. More rounds, cheaper, faster follow-ups, lighter, plus the round is more prevalent. I'm not much for counting on battlefield pickups because I have a hard time imagining any realistic situation where I'm more concerned with picking up ammo from a corpse than I am safe shelter, food, and water. The .308 gives you more distance and, with the right round, more penetration. Those two aren't enough advantages to make me give up the 5.56. And that's why I stow an SU-16C in my GHB. How many of you have a .308 in yours? -Emt1581 That's exactly what I do! My only concern is the reliability of the SU-16C...although I have never had a hiccup with mine. |
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Posted: 9/26/2013 3:03:14 PM EDT
[#23]
The question is wrong. there is no "best"
Arfcom's answer is always : Get Both unless your AO is really full of something that you need the 308 for, or somehow such that you need the ammo capacity of the 308 for.. |
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Posted: 9/27/2013 4:18:37 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
People probably need to start thinking about battlefield recovery when selecting calibers for SHTF. The rifle ammo that will most likely be more plentiful to salvage will be 5.56mm/.223. Also, for sustainment, you'll need something that is efficient for the weight. I've humped an M-14 and the ammo for it in AF and will definitely pass on it now. 5.56 will kill you just as dead. This, My son in law was telling me a story about his grandpa in WW II. He was a Marine. Anyway he carried the M1 Carbine. My SIL asked him why. He said "Because its light and I can carry plenty of ammo. Besides I picked up many a Garand from fallen Marines during fights..." I think that the whole "Which is better" question is fun but in reality. No one gun is gonig to do it all for you... |
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Posted: 9/27/2013 4:27:32 AM EDT
[#25]
"YES, the AR-15 carries more ammo and has a better rate of fire, but in most cases you'll need to fire two or three shots to neutralize something with an AR-15 that can be neutralized by the raw power of a single 7.62 shot."
Just a thought but, Soft Point or Hollow Point ammunition would nagate this 3 shot theory of which you speak. Not knocking the .308 as it has great power. But it and any of its platforms are heavy as hell. For bugging out and having limited supply of ammo, wouldnt lighter be better? |
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Posted: 9/27/2013 6:28:43 AM EDT
[#26]
If your SHTF situation is bad enough that 5.56 isn't capable of getting the job done and you need a battle rifle with large quantities of ammo, you're likely already dead. May as well not carry all that extra weight. If you want to go the Jeff Cooper route .308 would be fine as would a .30-30, or .357 lever. Same for the people who plan on carrying 20 loaded AR mags on their person. If the current plan is for you and the wife to be in gun battles in unfamiliar places with heavily armed bands you need to formulate another plan. SHTF will require a lot more brains than force for the average person. Now if you plan to be the heavily armed band that's a different story.
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Posted: 9/28/2013 9:14:36 AM EDT
[#27]
308 for salvage/loot over watch and point defense. 556 for shoot and scoot.
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Posted: 9/28/2013 9:59:45 AM EDT
[#28]
Both.
I will not be constrained by your artificially warped constraints as I have the extra cubic foot of space for the alternate rifle and a thousand rounds or so. Either. 
I live in an urban to rural transition area and moving towards the urban areas shorter range shots are way more likely ... where the mouse guns lighter bullet is less of a disadvantage ... but where there is more cover and the .308's ability to turn a mason brick into a pile of dust is more important. Moving out towards the desert and badlands there are both longer and shorter shots available. Here the reach out and touch someone range of the .308 is nicer but if the person is at all aware they're not going to be standing on a ridge line waiting for an 800 yard shot. I have run this thought experiment many times. 
My two top rifles in the safe are AR-15's one for day and one for night. The night carbine is set up with IR and white lights, an IR laser, a red dot-of-death, and a PVS-14 on a 16 barrel. The day rifle is setup with a 3X ACOG-o-death and a longer 20" barrel allowing me to keep the 63 grains-o-love above 2700 feet for much much further than with the night rifle. The night rifle is heavier despite the shorter and lighter profile barrel with the weight of the lights and NVS but the thought is in the evening I'll be either bunkered down or on short patrols. The day rifle is far lighter figuring I'll be ranger further with more ammo for daytime travels. I am looking for a combo IR/white light for the day rifle so that either the carbine or the rifle could be used with some limitations in either light. The next weapon down is a 12 gauge shotgun with white light. Below that comes the .308 rifles, an FAL, and M1A, and Remington 700 PSS. On top of my ammo cabinets I have color coded grab-n-go canvas bags for the AR, FAL and M1A rifles. Each bag holds many hundreds of rounds a few spare magazines. |
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Posted: 9/30/2013 8:54:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5.56/223 AR as MBR. with .22 conversion This. For the OP's "Grab one rifle out of the safe and jump in the car." M4 type carbine in a Blackhawk discreet case with 6 loaded mags, small Otis cleaning kit,.22 LR conversion unit and a couple hundred rounds of .22LR ammo. Now you have 2 caliber choices. If you have to ditch the car, ditch the case too and put the mags, conversion kit, and LR ammo in your pack. You are grabbing a bug out pack as well right? |
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Posted: 9/30/2013 9:43:58 PM EDT
[#30]
I'll just use the old Drag Racers Mantra, "Run what ya brung"
and when that runs out, take what ya need. |
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