Posted: 7/18/2013 12:12:12 PM EDT
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I was wondering if someone who has experience or recently started an orchard has a book recommendation along the lines of "Starting an orchard for dummies." The orchard would be a mixture of fruits and nut (but not like the types in Congress). A recommendation would be appreciated. Thank you in advance for your input.
What if you had 5 acres of land. Would that be enough for a commercial orchard of mixed fruits? Or would that be too small to be anything but a hobby. I know that I'm asking questions that are waaay out there, but I don't know much about orchards. Let me put it this way, I know about as much regarding Orchards as Obama does about the economy. |
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Quoted:
I was wondering if someone who has experience or recently started an orchard has a book recommendation along the lines of "Starting an orchard for dummies." The orchard would be a mixture of fruits and nut (but not like the types in Congress). A recommendation would be appreciated. Thank you in advance for your input. I don't have a particular book to recommend, but would suggest reading up on training methods such as "Tall Spindle". It and other "new" high density methods make for interesting options, even (if not especially) for small scale personal consumption. The time to fruit and production per foot for "tall spindle" is very impressive. ex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBC5oOo4oJw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4byYwYvq8U http://extension.umass.edu/fruitadvisor/sites/fruitadvisor/files/pdf-doc-ppt/The%20Tall%20Spindle%20Planting%20System.pdf http://extension.umass.edu/fruitadvisor/resources/tall-spindle-apple |
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long thread from 2009, brought up to date
Not a book, but I thought you might get some good info from the thread. |
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Father in law (and later brother in law) ran a commercial orchard for 50+ years. Wife worked it extensively, and I worked on it a fair bit too.
Number one item: No Lowes/Walmart/Home Depot trees. Most are NOT appropriate for the locations they are sold in. Find your USDA Ag zone, and then select trees that are suitable for your climate. Close isn’t good enough. Fruit trees are tough to grow well. Lots of pests, requiring a fair bit of pesticides. Insecticide, miticide, fungicide. It’s nasty stuff. And after losing my brother in law to brain cancer at 42 and FIL to parkinsons, I am less than thrilled playing with the stuff. When possible, select disease resistant varieties. Dwarf types might be handy, but be forewarned: Many dwarf types are less hardy and resistant. When planting, do not skimp on the hole. A large hole means more digging, but the soil disturbance helps root growth. Do not “coil” roots in a small hole. Water, water, water . As in 5 gallons per tree per DAY. Failure to water means lots of tree mortality. Number one killer of trees (other than lack of water first year) is mowing/weedwacker damage. Be carefull. However, most dwarf types NEED mowing to thrive. No mow means weed competition that stunts the tree. Standard root stocks win here. Apples need pruning. And thinning of set fruit. No pruning, and no thinning means shitty little apples. When selecting trees you need to know if the variety is self pollenating or needs a cross pollinator. If your tree supplier’s catalog doesn’t have this info, find another supplier who knows what is doing/selling. It’s easy to buy a tree and stick it in a hole in the ground. Its tough to develop a real orchard that produces good fruit. |
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I don't have much to offer you. I have over 400 apple trees. I am not liking the true dwarf rootstock as they overbear, require too much support and break in high wind.
M-111 and M7 is really the only way to go. Nowadays I find I have less time to work the orchard and I am relying on the M-111 trees to pretty much take care of themselves for a year or so more, while the dwarfs are probably goners. as I am not a full time orchardist. Many people here know a lot about this topic and frozenny above has given excellend advice. |
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Thank you to all who have responded. You information is great.
Based upon the current and future market, if you were going to start from scratch and put in an orchard, what type of fruit/nut/whatever would you put in? Would you have two or three different crops so that if one crop does poorly you have a backup or would you only try and grow one crop? Finally Fordguy, you have 400 trees and it isn't a full time occupation? If not, how many trees do you nee for a full time operation? How many acres would it take? I know these are just educated guess, but I do value them. |
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Quoted:
Thank you to all who have responded. You information is great. Based upon the current and future market, if you were going to start from scratch and put in an orchard, what type of fruit/nut/whatever would you put in? Would you have two or three different crops so that if one crop does poorly you have a backup or would you only try and grow one crop? Finally Fordguy, you have 400 trees and it isn't a full time occupation? If not, how many trees do you nee for a full time operation? How many acres would it take? I know these are just educated guess, but I do value them. Trees per acre will vary immensely based on the root stock you choose and the training method used. Tall spindle high density can see up to 1500 trees per acre. Contrast that with dozens on full size stock. |
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We just planted a rather large muscadine grape orchard/vineyard this year with a goal of making it a side business for our family. We currently have 100 vines and will expand towards 200 early next year. That may not sound like a lot of vines, but each muscadine vine can produce up to 150lbs of grapes per year.
Unfortunately, there are not a lot of books out there on these subjects, or if you find some, they are very outdated and are no longer relevant. We did find some good info from the various orchard supply business websites, but even some of that data is limited. Several AG related universities have papers and studies published online, but you really have to search and even some of that data is not up to date. Like most crazy ideas we start, we are jumping in head first, but we did as much research as we could and I think we are off to a good start with little risk at this point. If you want to start any kind of fruit based orchard, I have a few suggestions for you based on what we have learned so far and some mistakes we have made: 1. Make sure you have access to very inexpensive or almost free water for irrigation. The first couple years are critical with any of these plant/trees. One minor spell of excessive heat or low rain fall can ruin your investment and all of your hard work and money. Look into drip irrigation systems, they are very cheap and are extremely efficient, they do not waste water and put it right on the roots of the plant. This also helps with controlling the weeds (as you are not watering them) and helps manage some moisture based rots and fungus issues most fruit tree can get. 2. If you have a small or medium orchard, I think commercial landscape fabric is worth its weight in gold. It makes a huge difference in weed control and makes it much easier for your plants to survive without having to compete with weeds around its new root system. It virtually eliminated the need to use weed control herbicides and saves a ton of work having to continually trim/control the weeds between your plants. Do not buy the consumer grade landscape fabric from Lowes/HD stores. This stuff is crap and you will just waste your money, we made that mistake and now are redoing the entire farm with commercial grade landscape fabric this fall. There are several places they sell this product online and it is nothing like the garbage they sell in most local stores. 3. Spend the extra time and do the research on what plant/trees will grow properly in your region. I’m still amazed how many local stores sell plants that have almost no chance of long-term survival in my area. The USDA regional grow chart will show you what plants can realistically grow in your local area. Don’t go out and spend a ton of cash on trees that look good at the store in a plastic pots, but have no chance of long-term survival in you region. 4. Please, please be very careful around the pesticides and herbicides that often need to be sprayed to keep these plants viable and productive. I have horror stories of people that worked in the industry that are now dead from misusing this stuff and not taking proper precautions like respirators and gloves. There is no way to prove their deaths were directly caused by these chems, but I’m talking about healthy young and mid aged folks with no family history of cancers or other terminal illnesses dropping like flies after working with this stuff for years. If you have to spray any of these chems, please wear long-sleeved shirts, pants, gloves and at least a dust mask to limit your exposure. It’s even better to wear a proper respirator and be sure to take a shower after applying these products. I’m sure the average homeowner spraying a few fruit trees every year could never cause any harm to their health; I’m talking about folks that were almost bathing in this stuff for years while working large farms and orchards. I understand some of the chems we use today are much safer then the products that were used in the past, but please take the extra time to keep this stuff off you. I hope this info has helped you a little, we are still learning and it is a non stop adventure, but it is very rewarding to see all your hard work come to life and there is nothing like not having to go to the grocery store for your fruits and vegs. 
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Quoted:
We just planted a rather large muscadine grape orchard/vineyard this year with a goal of making it a side business for our family. We currently have 100 vines and will expand towards 200 early next year. That may not sound like a lot of vines, but each muscadine vine can produce up to 150lbs of grapes per year. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of books out there on these subjects, or if you find some, they are very outdated and are no longer relevant. We did find some good info from the various orchard supply business websites, but even some of that data is limited. Several AG related universities have papers and studies published online, but you really have to search and even some of that data is not up to date. Like most crazy ideas we start, we are jumping in head first, but we did as much research as we could and I think we are off to a good start with little risk at this point. If you want to start any kind of fruit based orchard, I have a few suggestions for you based on what we have learned so far and some mistakes we have made: 1. Make sure you have access to very inexpensive or almost free water for irrigation. The first couple years are critical with any of these plant/trees. One minor spell of excessive heat or low rain fall can ruin your investment and all of your hard work and money. Look into drip irrigation systems, they are very cheap and are extremely efficient, they do not waste water and put it right on the roots of the plant. This also helps with controlling the weeds (as you are not watering them) and helps manage some moisture based rots and fungus issues most fruit tree can get. 2. If you have a small or medium orchard, I think commercial landscape fabric is worth its weight in gold. It makes a huge difference in weed control and makes it much easier for your plants to survive without having to compete with weeds around its new root system. It virtually eliminated the need to use weed control herbicides and saves a ton of work having to continually trim/control the weeds between your plants. Do not buy the consumer grade landscape fabric from Lowes/HD stores. This stuff is crap and you will just waste your money, we made that mistake and now are redoing the entire farm with commercial grade landscape fabric this fall. There are several places they sell this product online and it is nothing like the garbage they sell in most local stores. 3. Spend the extra time and do the research on what plant/trees will grow properly in your region. I’m still amazed how many local stores sell plants that have almost no chance of long-term survival in my area. The USDA regional grow chart will show you what plants can realistically grow in your local area. Don’t go out and spend a ton of cash on trees that look good at the store in a plastic pots, but have no chance of long-term survival in you region. 4. Please, please be very careful around the pesticides and herbicides that often need to be sprayed to keep these plants viable and productive. I have horror stories of people that worked in the industry that are now dead from misusing this stuff and not taking proper precautions like respirators and gloves. There is no way to prove their deaths were directly caused by these chems, but I’m talking about healthy young and mid aged folks with no family history of cancers or other terminal illnesses dropping like flies after working with this stuff for years. If you have to spray any of these chems, please wear long-sleeved shirts, pants, gloves and at least a dust mask to limit your exposure. It’s even better to wear a proper respirator and be sure to take a shower after applying these products. I’m sure the average homeowner spraying a few fruit trees every year could never cause any harm to their health; I’m talking about folks that were almost bathing in this stuff for years while working large farms and orchards. I understand some of the chems we use today are much safer then the products that were used in the past, but please take the extra time to keep this stuff off you. I hope this info has helped you a little, we are still learning and it is a non stop adventure, but it is very rewarding to see all your hard work come to life and there is nothing like not having to go to the grocery store for your fruits and vegs.
What you did we are considering doing, a side business. By the way, your water supply suggestion is very, very good. It is something I hadn't thought of. Thank you for taking the time to write out a post. |
| im going to have to research this as well. im going to be planting several acres of fruit trees late next summer, or spring 2015. mostly apple, pear, and cherry trees. with possibly some long term nut trees, ( walnut etc). with some grapes, and blackberry added in as well. i know very little about all this, so lots of research is going to be needed. |
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Quoted:
im going to have to research this as well. im going to be planting several acres of fruit trees late next summer, or spring 2015. mostly apple, pear, and cherry trees. with possibly some long term nut trees, ( walnut etc). with some grapes, and blackberry added in as well. i know very little about all this, so lots of research is going to be needed. Surely someone has information for us. |
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Quoted: 4. Please, please be very careful around the pesticides and herbicides that often need to be sprayed to keep these plants viable and productive. I have horror stories of people that worked in the industry that are now dead from misusing this stuff and not taking proper precautions like respirators and gloves. There is no way to prove their deaths were directly caused by these chems, but I’m talking about healthy young and mid aged folks with no family history of cancers or other terminal illnesses dropping like flies after working with this stuff for years. If you have to spray any of these chems, please wear long-sleeved shirts, pants, gloves and at least a dust mask to limit your exposure. It’s even better to wear a proper respirator and be sure to take a shower after applying these products. I’m sure the average homeowner spraying a few fruit trees every year could never cause any harm to their health; I’m talking about folks that were almost bathing in this stuff for years while working large farms and orchards. I understand some of the chems we use today are much safer then the products that were used in the past, but please take the extra time to keep this stuff off you. Common Sense tells me it CAN'T be good to eat fruit that requires a full chem suit and respirator to water it...
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This book is kind of my dream life. You can read it free on line.
Ten Acres Enough |