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AR15.COM
5/22/2013 3:40:44 AM EDT
Thought this was interesting.  Hopefully, he doesn't mind me posting this.  I need to pick up the book.

Preparing for economic collapse
5/22/2013 4:59:36 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Thought this was interesting.  Hopefully, he doesn't mind me posting this.  I need to pick up the book.

Preparing for economic collapse


You could ask him yourself.
5/22/2013 8:42:01 AM EDT
[#2]
I found the comments after the article even more interesting.
5/22/2013 11:25:56 AM EDT
[#3]
No problem at all Traxx12
Quoted:
I found the comments after the article even more interesting.

Indeed, it was a good thread.
FerFAL
5/22/2013 11:50:56 AM EDT
[#4]
What will happen with credit cards & all other loans? Washed away?
5/22/2013 12:22:22 PM EDT
[#5]
one of the comments was something like this could never happen in America...

I offer this.  It would be many many times worse because we have so much much farther to fall.

Consider these numbers.   from Carl Sagan,  "The Milky Way galaxy is made up of 100 billion stars."

so, if you had a dollar for every star in the night sky, that's 100 billion,  Bill Gates personal wealth would be  roughly 3/4 that.

If you had a dollar for every star of our current national debt of 16 trillion would be the equivalent of a ONE HUNDRED and SIXTY Milky Way galaxies.

That doesn't even consider the unfunded liabilities that are likely ten times that value.

"Cue that Beautiful Bean footage !" ...  errr... galactic cluster image footage

5/22/2013 1:08:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
What will happen with credit cards & all other loans? Washed away?


This is my question as well.

Ferfal, care to comment what happened for you?
5/22/2013 9:10:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
No problem at all Traxx12
Quoted:
I found the comments after the article even more interesting.

Indeed, it was a good thread.
FerFAL


Thank you!  I realized after I posted that I probably should have asked first.  It's great reading from someone who had first-hand experience.  I'll be ordering the book today.
5/23/2013 1:35:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What will happen with credit cards & all other loans? Washed away?


This is my question as well.

Ferfal, care to comment what happened for you?


Sure. I had to repay every single buck I owed and the interests were beyond anything you’ve ever seen in USA given poor 3rd world usury laws. Thankfully I never owed much but what little debt I had back then taught me a valuable lesson. I think it was a year after getting married. I had little money and used a credit card to pay for a rug about 300 pesos, at that time 100USD or so. At the end of that year between interests, fees, penalties and what not I was looking at 600 USD debt.
In general being in debt was a bad thing as you could expect. Yes, its true that if you got a loan in USD at a 1 to 1 exchange rate with the peso, then after the devaluation to 3 to 1, with an adjustment to an in between point of 1 to 1,4 or so you almost doubled your money, but then again you had to a)time it perfectly b)not actually spend the money. Say you got a loan in dollars to buy a machine for your company, then the currency devaluates and you think well, I did very well. While that would be true you production costs would have followed the devaluation too, all economic activity freezes for months and business drops like a rock. You’d still find it very hard to repay you debt. It also depended on the kind of loan you got and who you got it from. Some people had to repay in dollars and for those that meant going bankrupt.  Impossible to do.
Regarding mortgages there were some emergency laws passed, but these bought you time to repay, it didn’t eliminate the debt, and it benefitted those that had bought houses worth around 50.000 USD or less, mostly focused to spare the lower income sector.  If you had scratched your way into a +100.000 USD mortgage, thinking of making sacrifices to pay and work it out, you were out of luck.

Quoted:
Quoted:
No problem at all Traxx12
Quoted:
I found the comments after the article even more interesting.

Indeed, it was a good thread.
FerFAL


Thank you!  I realized after I posted that I probably should have asked first.  It's great reading from someone who had first-hand experience.  I'll be ordering the book today.


You just found it in a website and posted a link to it and the website gives me proper credit for the article so its all good. If you like what I write I'm sure you'll enjoy my book ;-)
FerFAL
5/23/2013 3:41:55 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:

Sure. I had to repay every single buck I owed and the interests were beyond anything you’ve ever seen in USA given poor 3rd world usury laws. Thankfully I never owed much but what little debt I had back then taught me a valuable lesson. I think it was a year after getting married. I had little money and used a credit card to pay for a rug about 300 pesos, at that time 100USD or so. At the end of that year between interests, fees, penalties and what not I was looking at 600 USD debt.
In general being in debt was a bad thing as you could expect. Yes, its true that if you got a loan in USD at a 1 to 1 exchange rate with the peso, then after the devaluation to 3 to 1, with an adjustment to an in between point of 1 to 1,4 or so you almost doubled your money, but then again you had to a)time it perfectly b)not actually spend the money. Say you got a loan in dollars to buy a machine for your company, then the currency devaluates and you think well, I did very well. While that would be true you production costs would have followed the devaluation too, all economic activity freezes for months and business drops like a rock. You’d still find it very hard to repay you debt. It also depended on the kind of loan you got and who you got it from. Some people had to repay in dollars and for those that meant going bankrupt.  Impossible to do.
Regarding mortgages there were some emergency laws passed, but these bought you time to repay, it didn’t eliminate the debt, and it benefitted those that had bought houses worth around 50.000 USD or less, mostly focused to spare the lower income sector.  If you had scratched your way into a +100.000 USD mortgage, thinking of making sacrifices to pay and work it out, you were out of luck.

FerFAL


Wait....I thought if the currency/economy collapsed that the mortgage was still bound by contract to be paid in that currency.  In other words if the dollar collapses and is now worth maybe $.01 on the dollar....you can still pay the mortgage off with it that currency and it is for the same amount.  In other words, I can now buy stacks of $100 bills with a few ounces of silver (far fetched and unrealistic but there's always that chance...)....I can now take those stacks of $100's and pay off my mortgage....no?  

You talk about a $100 debt turning into a $600 debt with the convoluted interest the loaners trumped up in response to the crash....but how was that a hardship to anyone that stored PM's ahead of time?

Thanks

-Emt1581
5/23/2013 5:15:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Sure. I had to repay every single buck I owed and the interests were beyond anything you’ve ever seen in USA given poor 3rd world usury laws. Thankfully I never owed much but what little debt I had back then taught me a valuable lesson. I think it was a year after getting married. I had little money and used a credit card to pay for a rug about 300 pesos, at that time 100USD or so. At the end of that year between interests, fees, penalties and what not I was looking at 600 USD debt.
In general being in debt was a bad thing as you could expect. Yes, its true that if you got a loan in USD at a 1 to 1 exchange rate with the peso, then after the devaluation to 3 to 1, with an adjustment to an in between point of 1 to 1,4 or so you almost doubled your money, but then again you had to a)time it perfectly b)not actually spend the money. Say you got a loan in dollars to buy a machine for your company, then the currency devaluates and you think well, I did very well. While that would be true you production costs would have followed the devaluation too, all economic activity freezes for months and business drops like a rock. You’d still find it very hard to repay you debt. It also depended on the kind of loan you got and who you got it from. Some people had to repay in dollars and for those that meant going bankrupt.  Impossible to do.
Regarding mortgages there were some emergency laws passed, but these bought you time to repay, it didn’t eliminate the debt, and it benefitted those that had bought houses worth around 50.000 USD or less, mostly focused to spare the lower income sector.  If you had scratched your way into a +100.000 USD mortgage, thinking of making sacrifices to pay and work it out, you were out of luck.

FerFAL


Wait....I thought if the currency/economy collapsed that the mortgage was still bound by contract to be paid in that currency.  In other words if the dollar collapses and is now worth maybe $.01 on the dollar....you can still pay the mortgage off with it that currency and it is for the same amount.  In other words, I can now buy stacks of $100 bills with a few ounces of silver (far fetched and unrealistic but there's always that chance...)....I can now take those stacks of $100's and pay off my mortgage....no?  

well... no. Sorry.
If the dollar collapses and 100 USD buys you a can of coke, then I think they wont let you get away with paying off your mortage with it. Historically, what happens in such a case is that those in power come up with a new currency, a new dollar of some sort, and you have a limited ammount of time to exchange the old money for the new one. Remember its a fiat curency, its just paper backed up by the trust people have in it being worth something. If the government itself says its worth nothing then it immediately loses all value, and the government still has the power to overrun anything you may have signed. Trust me, if that ever happens they will come up with an agreement of equivalence between old and new dollar.  

You talk about a $100 debt turning into a $600 debt with the convoluted interest the loaners trumped up in response to the crash....but how was that a hardship to anyone that stored PM's ahead of time?

Thanks

-Emt1581

While silver and gold protects you from devaluation, it does not protect you from usury interest rates,doesnt matter if you have PM. I've learned to avoid debt like the plague.
FerFAL
5/23/2013 5:38:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Sure. I had to repay every single buck I owed and the interests were beyond anything you’ve ever seen in USA given poor 3rd world usury laws. Thankfully I never owed much but what little debt I had back then taught me a valuable lesson. I think it was a year after getting married. I had little money and used a credit card to pay for a rug about 300 pesos, at that time 100USD or so. At the end of that year between interests, fees, penalties and what not I was looking at 600 USD debt.
In general being in debt was a bad thing as you could expect. Yes, its true that if you got a loan in USD at a 1 to 1 exchange rate with the peso, then after the devaluation to 3 to 1, with an adjustment to an in between point of 1 to 1,4 or so you almost doubled your money, but then again you had to a)time it perfectly b)not actually spend the money. Say you got a loan in dollars to buy a machine for your company, then the currency devaluates and you think well, I did very well. While that would be true you production costs would have followed the devaluation too, all economic activity freezes for months and business drops like a rock. You’d still find it very hard to repay you debt. It also depended on the kind of loan you got and who you got it from. Some people had to repay in dollars and for those that meant going bankrupt.  Impossible to do.
Regarding mortgages there were some emergency laws passed, but these bought you time to repay, it didn’t eliminate the debt, and it benefitted those that had bought houses worth around 50.000 USD or less, mostly focused to spare the lower income sector.  If you had scratched your way into a +100.000 USD mortgage, thinking of making sacrifices to pay and work it out, you were out of luck.

FerFAL


Wait....I thought if the currency/economy collapsed that the mortgage was still bound by contract to be paid in that currency.  In other words if the dollar collapses and is now worth maybe $.01 on the dollar....you can still pay the mortgage off with it that currency and it is for the same amount.  In other words, I can now buy stacks of $100 bills with a few ounces of silver (far fetched and unrealistic but there's always that chance...)....I can now take those stacks of $100's and pay off my mortgage....no?  

well... no. Sorry.
If the dollar collapses and 100 USD buys you a can of coke, then I think they wont let you get away with paying off your mortage with it. Historically, what happens in such a case is that those in power come up with a new currency, a new dollar of some sort, and you have a limited ammount of time to exchange the old money for the new one. Remember its a fiat curency, its just paper backed up by the trust people have in it being worth something. If the government itself says its worth nothing then it immediately loses all value, and the government still has the power to overrun anything you may have signed. Trust me, if that ever happens they will come up with an agreement of equivalence between old and new dollar.  

You talk about a $100 debt turning into a $600 debt with the convoluted interest the loaners trumped up in response to the crash....but how was that a hardship to anyone that stored PM's ahead of time?

Thanks

-Emt1581

While silver and gold protects you from devaluation, it does not protect you from usury interest rates,doesnt matter if you have PM. I've learned to avoid debt like the plague.
FerFAL


So you're saying that, even though I signed a contract that says I will pay in US dollars and the lender said they would accept US dollars....the gov. could theoretically require me to pay in British Pounds or Canadian Dollars or whatever funny money they print next??  What's the point of the contract then?  Seems like it would be proof the lender made a bad investment instead of requiring me to pay in physical gold or silver rather than something the government should step in and change the terms of after the shit has hit the fan.  

-Emt1581
5/23/2013 6:28:12 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Sure. I had to repay every single buck I owed and the interests were beyond anything you’ve ever seen in USA given poor 3rd world usury laws. Thankfully I never owed much but what little debt I had back then taught me a valuable lesson. I think it was a year after getting married. I had little money and used a credit card to pay for a rug about 300 pesos, at that time 100USD or so. At the end of that year between interests, fees, penalties and what not I was looking at 600 USD debt.
In general being in debt was a bad thing as you could expect. Yes, its true that if you got a loan in USD at a 1 to 1 exchange rate with the peso, then after the devaluation to 3 to 1, with an adjustment to an in between point of 1 to 1,4 or so you almost doubled your money, but then again you had to a)time it perfectly b)not actually spend the money. Say you got a loan in dollars to buy a machine for your company, then the currency devaluates and you think well, I did very well. While that would be true you production costs would have followed the devaluation too, all economic activity freezes for months and business drops like a rock. You’d still find it very hard to repay you debt. It also depended on the kind of loan you got and who you got it from. Some people had to repay in dollars and for those that meant going bankrupt.  Impossible to do.
Regarding mortgages there were some emergency laws passed, but these bought you time to repay, it didn’t eliminate the debt, and it benefitted those that had bought houses worth around 50.000 USD or less, mostly focused to spare the lower income sector.  If you had scratched your way into a +100.000 USD mortgage, thinking of making sacrifices to pay and work it out, you were out of luck.

FerFAL


Wait....I thought if the currency/economy collapsed that the mortgage was still bound by contract to be paid in that currency.  In other words if the dollar collapses and is now worth maybe $.01 on the dollar....you can still pay the mortgage off with it that currency and it is for the same amount.  In other words, I can now buy stacks of $100 bills with a few ounces of silver (far fetched and unrealistic but there's always that chance...)....I can now take those stacks of $100's and pay off my mortgage....no?  

well... no. Sorry.
If the dollar collapses and 100 USD buys you a can of coke, then I think they wont let you get away with paying off your mortage with it. Historically, what happens in such a case is that those in power come up with a new currency, a new dollar of some sort, and you have a limited ammount of time to exchange the old money for the new one. Remember its a fiat curency, its just paper backed up by the trust people have in it being worth something. If the government itself says its worth nothing then it immediately loses all value, and the government still has the power to overrun anything you may have signed. Trust me, if that ever happens they will come up with an agreement of equivalence between old and new dollar.  

You talk about a $100 debt turning into a $600 debt with the convoluted interest the loaners trumped up in response to the crash....but how was that a hardship to anyone that stored PM's ahead of time?

Thanks

-Emt1581

While silver and gold protects you from devaluation, it does not protect you from usury interest rates,doesnt matter if you have PM. I've learned to avoid debt like the plague.
FerFAL


So you're saying that, even though I signed a contract that says I will pay in US dollars and the lender said they would accept US dollars....the gov. could theoretically require me to pay in British Pounds or Canadian Dollars or whatever funny money they print next??  What's the point of the contract then?  Seems like it would be proof the lender made a bad investment instead of requiring me to pay in physical gold or silver rather than something the government should step in and change the terms of after the shit has hit the fan.  

-Emt1581

Yes, that exactly right. They can do pretty much anything they want and they've shown a will to wipe their butts with the constitution enough times I believe.
I doubt that they will make you pay in Canadian Dollars or BGP but if it comes down to it, the elite running things will quickly aprove an emergency plan aproving a new currency of some sort. Everything you agreed to on old dollars will be transfered to new dollars.
FerFAL
5/23/2013 6:49:58 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Sure. I had to repay every single buck I owed and the interests were beyond anything you’ve ever seen in USA given poor 3rd world usury laws. Thankfully I never owed much but what little debt I had back then taught me a valuable lesson. I think it was a year after getting married. I had little money and used a credit card to pay for a rug about 300 pesos, at that time 100USD or so. At the end of that year between interests, fees, penalties and what not I was looking at 600 USD debt.
In general being in debt was a bad thing as you could expect. Yes, its true that if you got a loan in USD at a 1 to 1 exchange rate with the peso, then after the devaluation to 3 to 1, with an adjustment to an in between point of 1 to 1,4 or so you almost doubled your money, but then again you had to a)time it perfectly b)not actually spend the money. Say you got a loan in dollars to buy a machine for your company, then the currency devaluates and you think well, I did very well. While that would be true you production costs would have followed the devaluation too, all economic activity freezes for months and business drops like a rock. You’d still find it very hard to repay you debt. It also depended on the kind of loan you got and who you got it from. Some people had to repay in dollars and for those that meant going bankrupt.  Impossible to do.
Regarding mortgages there were some emergency laws passed, but these bought you time to repay, it didn’t eliminate the debt, and it benefitted those that had bought houses worth around 50.000 USD or less, mostly focused to spare the lower income sector.  If you had scratched your way into a +100.000 USD mortgage, thinking of making sacrifices to pay and work it out, you were out of luck.

FerFAL


Wait....I thought if the currency/economy collapsed that the mortgage was still bound by contract to be paid in that currency.  In other words if the dollar collapses and is now worth maybe $.01 on the dollar....you can still pay the mortgage off with it that currency and it is for the same amount.  In other words, I can now buy stacks of $100 bills with a few ounces of silver (far fetched and unrealistic but there's always that chance...)....I can now take those stacks of $100's and pay off my mortgage....no?  

well... no. Sorry.
If the dollar collapses and 100 USD buys you a can of coke, then I think they wont let you get away with paying off your mortage with it. Historically, what happens in such a case is that those in power come up with a new currency, a new dollar of some sort, and you have a limited ammount of time to exchange the old money for the new one. Remember its a fiat curency, its just paper backed up by the trust people have in it being worth something. If the government itself says its worth nothing then it immediately loses all value, and the government still has the power to overrun anything you may have signed. Trust me, if that ever happens they will come up with an agreement of equivalence between old and new dollar.  

You talk about a $100 debt turning into a $600 debt with the convoluted interest the loaners trumped up in response to the crash....but how was that a hardship to anyone that stored PM's ahead of time?

Thanks

-Emt1581

While silver and gold protects you from devaluation, it does not protect you from usury interest rates,doesnt matter if you have PM. I've learned to avoid debt like the plague.
FerFAL


So you're saying that, even though I signed a contract that says I will pay in US dollars and the lender said they would accept US dollars....the gov. could theoretically require me to pay in British Pounds or Canadian Dollars or whatever funny money they print next??  What's the point of the contract then?  Seems like it would be proof the lender made a bad investment instead of requiring me to pay in physical gold or silver rather than something the government should step in and change the terms of after the shit has hit the fan.  

-Emt1581


Ask the GM creditors how much their contract meant when Team O decided to put them behind the unions when getting paid.  
5/23/2013 11:29:26 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Yes, that exactly right. They can do pretty much anything they want and they've shown a will to wipe their butts with the constitution enough times I believe.
I doubt that they will make you pay in Canadian Dollars or BGP but if it comes down to it, the elite running things will quickly aprove an emergency plan aproving a new currency of some sort. Everything you agreed to on old dollars will be transfered to new dollars.
FerFAL


Well that sucks!! Thanks for the information though.  

It's amazing how powerful the gov. is...how did we get to this point??  Anyone know if our forefathers would have approved of such a thing?  

I said it before and I'll say it again...when things go bad for the government, they just bullshit their way out of it rather than owning up to their responsibilities.  

-Emt1581
5/23/2013 9:40:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes, that exactly right. They can do pretty much anything they want and they've shown a will to wipe their butts with the constitution enough times I believe.
I doubt that they will make you pay in Canadian Dollars or BGP but if it comes down to it, the elite running things will quickly aprove an emergency plan aproving a new currency of some sort. Everything you agreed to on old dollars will be transfered to new dollars.
FerFAL


Well that sucks!! Thanks for the information though.  

It's amazing how powerful the gov. is...how did we get to this point??  Anyone know if our forefathers would have approved of such a thing?  

I said it before and I'll say it again...when things go bad for the government, they just bullshit their way out of it rather than owning up to their responsibilities.  

-Emt1581


Who knows?  Guess it depends on which one.  John Adams pushed through the Alien and Sedition Acts.  It's the fallacy of governments the world over.