Best County in CONUS to survive SHTF...

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Best County in CONUS to survive SHTF... (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 4/9/2013 1:48:39 AM EDT

From researching Rawles's Retreat Areas: LINK.
Clark County ID/Dubois, Northern area of the E section of ID:

Why there:
-in the non-coastal west, generally lowest population density

-in the non-coastal Northwest, plentiful water, no irrigation required for farming, lots of beef on the leg, more than people in fact, so even if grain production drops due to diesel shortages, there would still be plenty of protien for sale.

-in a rather free state, Boston T party 97% gun freedom rating & 1st in JWL retreat ratings

-west of the continental divide, which JWR argues make for much nicer winters, important if I am gonna sell this FL family.

-not near nuke plants, also not downwind of the missile fields in MT & WY etc, FWIW

-most importantly, far from urban areas. Closets cities are: Boise, & SLC, both 260 miles away. Admittedly too close, but Boise is small and SLC isn't gonna have too many roving bandits emerging from it since LDS's prepare & will probably keep pretty good order. (I am wary of LDS people, me being a "Gentile," & being aware of Brigham Young's reign of terror & how generally obedient they are to an athority that allegidly can talk to God...but worry of a LDS conqeust of ID would be a miniscule consideration)
This map indicated the largest urban centers & the danger zones around them:

-Clark County also has a very very low population density or is rather rural:

Also, this area is very low for any type of natural disaster, FWIW LINK

My second choice would be Lincoin county in WY, just across the border from there, straight east of Idaho Falls. Still the better winter climate, no income tax, part of the WY free state project, near a oil refinery in the SW corner of WY, just as far from SLC & farther from Boisie. Actually, maybe that would be my first....

Another obvious choice would be be in the most rural area of the country, farthest from any urban centers, near SE Montanna, right around the junction of the MT, WY & SD borders. But harsh winters, I don't know about water & down wind of nuclear targets, though that is less of a worry to me.

Posted: 4/9/2013 2:18:48 AM EDT

[#1]

Posted: 4/9/2013 2:45:27 AM EDT

[#2]

People put ENTIRELY too much stock into Rawles. He is not exactly right about a good many things.

Another thing you should consider is where can you still earn a living in your desired profession or trade in these extremely remote low density areas?

If you own a business and there is a market for your products or services, and you can find well educated employees in the area - fine. If you ARE an employee in a given field - do some serious looking before you leap!

No sense moving for "survival" when the area has limited opportunity for you to "thrive" with jobs only paying $11/hr!

There are other extremely suitable places dismissed by Rawles for frivolous & insignificant reasons.

Posted: 4/9/2013 2:50:25 AM EDT

[#3]

like the plain's states?

Too flat for guerilla warfare or too hard to defend from roving bands of the "golden hoard" Course, OK, KS & NE & SD does of irrigation. Not as lackign in water as say AZ or NV though...

Posted: 4/9/2013 4:31:02 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
People put ENTIRELY too much stock into Rawles. He is not exactly right about a good many things.

Another thing you should consider is where can you still earn a living in your desired profession or trade in these extremely remote low density areas?

If you own a business and there is a market for your products or services, and you can find well educated employees in the area - fine. If you ARE an employee in a given field - do some serious looking before you leap!

No sense moving for "survival" when the area has limited opportunity for you to "thrive" with jobs only paying $11/hr!

There are other extremely suitable places dismissed by Rawles for frivolous & insignificant reasons.

+1

Posted: 4/9/2013 4:35:09 AM EDT

[#5]

Rawles has a pretty specific scenario in mind when it comes to SHTF. He outlines his fantasy in excruciating detail in his book "Patriots"

It is unrealistic to assume that society will break down so thoroughly that people cannot interact with eachother.
Lots of countries have "collapsed"; life goes on. People produce. People trade. Things change, but life goes on.

Find a place where people share your values. Make friends. Be involved in your community. Encourage others to be self reliant.

And if you are afraid of Mormons, I don't know what to tell you.

Posted: 4/9/2013 9:25:50 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Rawles has a pretty specific scenario in mind when it comes to SHTF. He outlines his fantasy in excruciating detail in his book "Patriots"

It is unrealistic to assume that society will break down so thoroughly that people cannot interact with eachother.
Lots of countries have "collapsed"; life goes on. People produce. People trade. Things change, but life goes on.

Find a place where people share your values. Make friends. Be involved in your community. Encourage others to be self reliant.

And if you are afraid of Mormons, I don't know what to tell you.

+1

Posted: 4/9/2013 9:47:49 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

From researching Rawles's Retreat Areas: LINK.
Clark County UT/Dubois, Northern area of the E section of ID

I am confused. Where is Clark County, Utah? Are you listing 3 different places?

Posted: 4/9/2013 9:53:25 AM EDT

[#8]

yeah, JWL's scenario is pretty extreme. I have read patriots.

If you look at Argentina, the government & order never fully collapsed, was lost of crime, capitol controls, unstable utilities, massive imflation etc. But it wasnt like people had to hide in their houses for 2 years to protect themselves from communist cannibles w/ wheelbarrows

Guess I am afraid of the worse, and thinking how I want to be as far from the FSA as possible if either nuclear war, an EMP or snowballing FSA riots completley disrupt power/fuel/food distribution & production.

Posted: 4/9/2013 9:53:57 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:

From researching Rawles's Retreat Areas: LINK.
Clark County UT/Dubois, Northern area of the E section of ID

I am confused. Where is Clark County, Utah? Are you listing 3 different places?

oops, I meant Clark County ID.

And Lincoin county WY is staight E of Idaho falls, not west

Posted: 4/9/2013 10:13:31 AM EDT

[#10]

i'm not afraid of LDS people now, they way things are. They are generally very nice & family oriented and responsible people. If I could choose who to live in that empty house in my neighborhood here in FL I would probably choose a nice mormon family. So long as life is as such, the LDS people or leadership is not any kind of...threat.

However, if things broke down to where there is no central gov I expect the LDS church to be the de facto leadership of UT. This would probably be good in general for everyone living in UT. But on the other hand they could do like Brigham Young & his Angels & establish a reign of terror & force the "gentiles" to convert or at least treat them like 2nd class citizens b/c they aren't gods chosen. I guess this just depends on how much faith LDS have in their leaders as able to authoritatively hear or interpret God's will. I am not tyring to pick on LDS or religion in general, I am just wary of systems that can become authoritarian, whether they be secular or religious.

Dont think I am pickign on LDS particularly, hell there is some sort of protestant preacher who was recently saying how slavery should be allowed for people who don't accept christ b/c they are "fools" or some such...

Posted: 4/9/2013 10:15:16 AM EDT

[#11]

I hate to rain on your parade, but in elder's quorum the other day we were told that the church is planning on sending troops to pillage and enslave all the free-thinking gentiles in Clark County.

Posted: 4/9/2013 10:58:16 AM EDT

[#12]

Wary of the LDS population in a SHTF scenario, but you wan to move to S.Idaho (also known around here as N. Utah).

Might want to re-think that line of reasoning. Who do you think settled S. Idaho 150+ years ago? Who still runs S. Idaho or Idaho for that matter?

SLC is not all peaches and cream either. As it has grown and the Cali transplants have settled in, they have had there share of the rise in crime and gang violence. They just don't put it in the travel brochures. The LDS population there is only 50% or so.

Dubois is also only 50 mi away from Rexburg, ID. Still wary of the LDS, you should probably look that place up too. Roving bands of non-shorts wearing youth regularly patrol the BYU-ID campus there.

EDIT: Good luck trying to sell a FL family on a S. Idaho winter. Hope you like long cold windy days.

Posted: 4/9/2013 11:00:16 AM EDT

[#13]

you have a lot of assumptions that are flat out laughable

slc wont have roaming gangs because the have the lds, fcheap beef on the hoof for the taking

I also take it you haven'tr lived there for any amount of time.

Posted: 4/9/2013 11:14:30 AM EDT

[#14]

Thinking ID doesn't have any nuke plants? Might want to look at this:
Idaho National Labratory

Only 75 miles from Dubois.

Posted: 4/9/2013 11:24:49 AM EDT

[#15]

I'm sticking with Texas. We live in the country and generally almost everyone in our area believes in gun rights and almost everyone owns and can use firearms. I think if things get bad... living in a lightly populated area where everyone knows how to shoot is better than trying to find a location that is so isolated that an individual can defend it long term. I also like the fact that in my neighborhood, most people have gardens and have basic skills for producing food on their own. Plus there are cattle, goats, chickens, etc being raised all over our county.

I also like the fact that Texas is making a name for itself by attracting jobs in this tough economy. The only real weakness I see for Texas is the lack of water resources. Hopefully it is a short term thing and we end up getting alot of rain this spring to catch back up.

Posted: 4/9/2013 11:31:24 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

slc wont have roaming gangs because the have the lds, fcheap beef on the hoof for the taking

Hey! I NEVER said antying about just taking peoples live stock. I am not a "all I need is guns I'll just take the rest" guy.

But it there is a breakdown of economic distribution, that would include getting beef to eastern and W coast markets, which would mean beef would probably be available to the locals in trade or whatever. Furthermore most of those cattle would still be there even if the economy was disrupted. they would go on eating & shitting, same as always. They are mostly graze cattle right? Not so dependent on having feed brought to them??

As to roaming gangs in SLC, I suspect that all the prepped up LDS suburbanites will thin the ranks of any would be hoards in pretty short order. The mobs in whatever accounts for the bad parts of SLC would attack nearest areas first, which is gonna be neighborhoods of middle class family type people, many of LDS, therefore many of those will be fit to fight when the hoards are getting desperate.

Posted: 4/9/2013 11:32:30 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Thinking ID doesn't have any nuke plants? Might want to look at this:
Idaho National Labratory

Only 75 miles from Dubois.

thanks for that

Posted: 4/9/2013 11:48:53 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thinking ID doesn't have any nuke plants? Might want to look at this:
Idaho National Labratory

Only 75 miles from Dubois.

thanks for that

I think you need to put in some time to do a lot more research in your various locales for bug-out living.
Not to be insulting, but many of your key points you listed off have been shot down pretty quickly and this thread isn't even on to page 2 yet. I don't know this Rawles cat, but I see his name pop up here every now and then and usually with some sort of wariness. I would be awfully leery of hitching my wagon to such a character.
Do your homework, so that next time you start a thread like this the locals don't read your facts and stats and laugh. Remember, these may be your new neighbors.

Posted: 4/9/2013 11:56:19 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Wary of the LDS population in a SHTF scenario, but you wan to move to S.Idaho (also known around here as N. Utah).

Might want to re-think that line of reasoning. Who do you think settled S. Idaho 150+ years ago? Who still runs S. Idaho or Idaho for that matter?

SLC is not all peaches and cream either. As it has grown and the Cali transplants have settled in, they have had there share of the rise in crime and gang violence. They just don't put it in the travel brochures. The LDS population there is only 50% or so...
EDIT: Good luck trying to sell a FL family on a S. Idaho winter. Hope you like long cold windy days.

yeah, I am from IA, grew up there, but my wife & her family are from FL or Peru, so it would be a tough sell. I did get sick of winter, but I would trade greater overall security, a more conservative & rural lifestyle, right to OC for nice weather.

So basically you are telling me that LDS was basically the first people to settle ID, at least S ID. Guess I was thinking that maybe other settlers got established in ID before LDS filled up N UT. Guess not.

Posted: 4/9/2013 11:59:41 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wary of the LDS population in a SHTF scenario, but you wan to move to S.Idaho (also known around here as N. Utah).

Might want to re-think that line of reasoning. Who do you think settled S. Idaho 150+ years ago? Who still runs S. Idaho or Idaho for that matter?

SLC is not all peaches and cream either. As it has grown and the Cali transplants have settled in, they have had there share of the rise in crime and gang violence. They just don't put it in the travel brochures. The LDS population there is only 50% or so...
EDIT: Good luck trying to sell a FL family on a S. Idaho winter. Hope you like long cold windy days.

yeah, I am from IA, grew up there, but my wife & her family are from FL or Peru, so it would be a tough sell. I did get sick of winter, but I would trade greater overall security, a more conservative & rural lifestyle, right to OC for nice weather.

So basically you are telling me that LDS was basically the first people to settle ID, at least S ID. Guess I was thinking that maybe other settlers got established in ID before LDS filled up N UT. Guess not.

Come on. Learn you history before you try and tell me why my state is or isn't great. This is basic Wikipedia info.

There really should be a test before they allow people to move to Idaho. It ain't all potatoes and beef cattle.

Posted: 4/9/2013 12:24:30 PM EDT

[#21]

Too many damn abbreviations in this thread!

What the heck is "SLC?"

Posted: 4/9/2013 12:49:45 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Too many damn abbreviations in this thread!

What the heck is "SLC?"

Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: 4/9/2013 12:52:35 PM EDT

[#23]

If the LDS people scare you off right away then you should immediately rule out: UT, AZ, ID, and NV.

Posted: 4/9/2013 1:03:54 PM EDT

[#24]

most are not in the ID/UT dessert climate. They are dependent on power for water in some places as well as supplemental feed. There are a few grazers but only in spring-rest of the time the grass is dead,

Quoted:

Furthermore most of those cattle would still be there even if the economy was disrupted. they would go on eating & shitting, same as always. They are mostly graze cattle right? Not so dependent on having feed brought to them??

Posted: 4/9/2013 1:38:06 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
most are not in the ID/UT dessert climate. They are dependent on power for water in some places as well as supplemental feed. There are a few grazers but only in spring-rest of the time the grass is dead,

Quoted:
Furthermore most of those cattle would still be there even if the economy was disrupted. they would go on eating & shitting, same as always. They are mostly graze cattle right? Not so dependent on having feed brought to them??

yeah, I guess they can't graze through the winter

But even in the summer the grass is to thin? And water needs to be pumped up. Yeah, I guess those 2.5 mil cattle need some human intervention to keep on at those levels...

I appreciate you all helping set me straight

Posted: 4/9/2013 1:45:53 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
If the LDS people scare you off right away then you should immediately rule out: UT, AZ, ID, and NV.

I would love to live amoung LDS so long as it isn't TEOTWAWKI and their leaders went all Brigham Young. I like their general lifestyle and how responsible they are, but I just get nervous around anyone that takes religion that seriously. Maybe I am blowing it out of portion, maybe even if they did get some crazy leader the general people would just tell him to STFU w/ his nonsense.

Fuck, the world is an awful mess

Where can a guy go to be free from some -ism or another. I guess cold E WY or E MT or maybe Dry W TX, OK, KS or NM, and that is it, at least in the Western continents.

Woudl that I could afford to move to Switzerland or NZ

Posted: 4/9/2013 2:21:20 PM EDT

[#27]

I've found a great free state that has excellent land at great prices. The only down side is that you really are secluded in the middle of nowhere, have to be very independent since the average pop density is 1 to 2 people per square mile, and it has some of the most harsh winters in the CONUS. I consider that an added benefit as it keeps the undesirables away!

Posted: 4/9/2013 2:33:19 PM EDT

[#28]

I'm moving wherever I can find a solid group of devout Catholics who don't mind gunning down cannibal drifters on a whim but still lets me work from home with my 14.4 kilobaud modem.

Really, I think water, terrain, and population should be primary concerns.

Speed

Posted: 4/9/2013 3:38:53 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
I'm moving wherever I can find a solid group of devout Catholics who don't mind gunning down cannibal drifters on a whim but still lets me work from home with my 14.4 kilobaud modem.

Really, I think water, terrain, and population should be primary concerns.

Speed

My area has a good catholic community, clergy that CCW, and 10 MB/s fiber optic out in the middle of nowhere.

Posted: 4/9/2013 3:51:21 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Rawles has a pretty specific scenario in mind when it comes to SHTF. He outlines his fantasy in excruciating detail in his book "Patriots"

It is unrealistic to assume that society will break down so thoroughly that people cannot interact with eachother.
Lots of countries have "collapsed"; life goes on. People produce. People trade. Things change, but life goes on.

Find a place where people share your values. Make friends. Be involved in your community. Encourage others to be self reliant.

And if you are afraid of Mormons, I don't know what to tell you.

Yeah, I didnt fully understand the afraid of Mormons thing, either. Especially the Brigham Young remark. Did he realize that under the leadership of Brigham Young, the Mormons repelled a United States Army invasion force know as Johnstons Army from invading SLC without shedding any blood? ( he should read and learn about the so-called Utah War) However, these Mormons were prepared to shed some blood if they had to.

Posted: 4/9/2013 4:14:08 PM EDT

[#31]

Being from WV, I think any of the Appalachian counties would be a great place to disappear to. Very gun friendly, plenty of remote, heavily wooded areas, abundant wildlife, abandon coal mines/caves, deep valleys with mountain streams. And WV has very few high population areas.

Posted: 4/9/2013 4:15:11 PM EDT

[#32]

I dunno about other people, but my idea of "winning" when it comes to survival is this: Having prepped, thought, equipped and become comfortable enouugh that SHTF events are largely non-events. He who lives well fed, warm, safe and comfortable "wins".

Now its easy to spend all our time prepping for this event. What happens if the event doesn't materialize???

I saw this in large scale with Y2K. Some people got so hardcore about prepping that they threw their regular life away. The sold stuff, ran up huge debt, bought tons of stuff............ and then it did not happen. They were ruined. Prepping to an extent that it ruins everyday life is not san prepping. Rawles often falls into this trap: Rather than prepping for potential problems and thereby reducing their impact (and living better as a result), his prepping has gone so far that it overwhelms his life. HIs everyday life, here and now, is substantially compromised because he's getting ready for an event that might - or might not- happen.

He's got good ideas. But he's often off the deep end. I do live in a rura area and pay a reasonable economic price for doing so. I could make more money in a big city. Howevver, quality of life issues balance the equation. However, abandoning all, moving to remote idaho and homesteading, then spending al my remaining cash on prep items for the end of the world doesn't strike me as particualrly sane. It's like wasting today, tomorrow and all teh tomorrows for years to come on the off chance that the worldends at some indefinite time in the future.

Thankfully, the world doesn't end all that often. I'm a lot more comfortable with sane prepping for relatively reasonable and foreseeable everyday SHTF occurances. Prepping is a means of prolonging my comfort and life. Allowing the prepping to totally consume today for a tomorrow that is relatively unlikely does't make sense. It's sort of like taking a good thing (like vitamins) in suc large doses that it stops being beneficial and starts becoming a poison.
Just my two cents.

Posted: 4/9/2013 4:25:14 PM EDT

[#33]

IMHO, you will never find a perfect location for all CHTF scenario. Each and every BOL will have strong and weak points. Personally, I strongly discourage people from picking everything up and moving across the country to be "safe". There is no perfect "safe" location. Live in or move to a place that is fairly safe but even it should be in a location that you have long-built relationships with people you can trust.

It takes a long time to build trust-worthy relationships. Relationships with neighbors/family is one of the more important preps in a CHTF situation. I believe that this is even more the case in today's environment. I would not want to live in NYC (it is just not safe) but I would not advise a NYer to move to Idaho. He would be met with mis-trust and doubt. Now many here on SF would say that I should move away from the situation that I am currently in.

In a CHTF scenario, I do have places that I can go to be safer!

I believe that family security is not just about being out on a piece of land where we can grow our food for our needs. I would think long and hard before moving my family for a CHTF scenario. It is a good way to turn your family against you and prepping.

Just my .02,

Amos1909

Posted: 4/9/2013 5:54:32 PM EDT

[#34]

Northern Mn or Baja Canada. Lots of food, Lots of water Can grow a damn good garden, Fish year round Very little people around and we look after ourselfs. Lots of fire wood for heat and well it is kinda desolate to the southern folks up here. I do think it scares em.

Posted: 4/9/2013 7:21:21 PM EDT

[#35]

Where are you from? Where are your friends and family? Why do you feel you need to leave your state and move all they way across the country to find a place to bug out to? It would take years for you to get familiar with your new environment and that's under perfect circumstances. I would rather live in the city near friends and family than the sticks alone.

Posted: 4/9/2013 10:32:13 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

"went all Brigham Young".

First, I will just say that as someone who grew up Protestant, your view of Brigham Young and the LDS people is wrong, and I have read enough books and literature on this subject over the years to say this with high confidence. They are a good people with a remarkable history. Broaden yourself to historical facts, factual stories and papers (including journals). It sounds like you are bogged down with falsehoods regarding the Mormon / LDS people and their history and culture. Take some time and find out the real story.

The "West" is also becoming "Suburbia America". If the system goes down (SHTF) or our country is attacked, I honestly believe that there is no place in the lower 48 where we can "hide" completely from it. However, I don't blame you for wanting to leave Florida, but I would think there are just as many "safe" places in the interior of Florida (small out of the way enclaves), as there are in say different places in "my private Idaho". Florida needs your votes right now. Don't leave yet.

Posted: 4/10/2013 2:47:44 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Yeah, I didnt fully understand the afraid of Mormons thing, either. Especially the Brigham Young remark. Did he realize that under the leadership of Brigham Young, the Mormons repelled a United States Army invasion force know as Johnstons Army from invading SLC without shedding any blood? ( he should read and learn about the so-called Utah War) However, these Mormons were prepared to shed some blood if they had to.

I don't have any problem w/ the incident to which you refer. I have a problem w/ the reign of terror that he enforced with his own secret police. They went out at night and hunted down and exterminated families that turned back from the journey to SLC, being apostates. Many "Mormon" families today (not the LDS but the one that followed Jo Smith's son & went to upstae NY) only exist b/c they were able to escape and evade back to rejoin the other mormon sect. There is reason to believe this sort of thing went on in SLC as well, but naturally records would be lite in this scenario where dissent could get one dissapeared in the night.

Posted: 4/10/2013 2:54:38 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Being from WV, I think any of the Appalachian counties would be a great place to disappear to. Very gun friendly, plenty of remote, heavily wooded areas, abundant wildlife, abandon coal mines/caves, deep valleys with mountain streams. And WV has very few high population areas.

Parts of WV and KY would probably be the best place E of the Mississippi river, cept maybe for very N Maine...

The whole "abunant game" thing probably wouldn't last long though. In the great depression the white tail deer was driven to the brink of extinction by hungry men.

Posted: 4/10/2013 3:02:38 AM EDT

[#39]

FWIW,
the Boston T party guy's recommendation w/ the western free state project is to move to the very NE two counties of WY, or Hot Springs County in the north middle. Probably b/c of the defensible hilly terrain and demographics which would give immigrants the best chance of influencing elections.

FWIW they are W of the western SD missle fields, and SE of the one's in MT. And that area is afwully far from any big city, generally in the least populace area of the country. I think it is basically the West side of the Badlands.

The free state WY web site says that the winter weather there is not as bad as other part of WY

Not sure why that would be. Have to look into it further.

Posted: 4/10/2013 3:47:36 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
If the LDS people scare you off right away then you should immediately rule out: UT, AZ, ID, and NV.

This.

If I may make a suggestion:

Live about 2 hours away from a large city. I live 3 hours away from SLC. The fuel to go there and back for a trip is spendy. Day trips make for a LONG day too. Two hours would be perfect.

Posted: 4/10/2013 4:05:55 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
IMHO, you will never find a perfect location for all CHTF scenario. Each and every BOL will have strong and weak points. Personally, I strongly discourage people from picking everything up and moving across the country to be "safe". There is no perfect "safe" location. Live in or move to a place that is fairly safe but even it should be in a location that you have long-built relationships with people you can trust.

It takes a long time to build trust-worthy relationships. Relationships with neighbors/family is one of the more important preps in a CHTF situation. I believe that this is even more the case in today's environment. I would not want to live in NYC (it is just not safe) but I would not advise a NYer to move to Idaho. He would be met with mis-trust and doubt. Now many here on SF would say that I should move away from the situation that I am currently in.

In a CHTF scenario, I do have places that I can go to be safer!

I believe that family security is not just about being out on a piece of land where we can grow our food for our needs. I would think long and hard before moving my family for a CHTF scenario. It is a good way to turn your family against you and prepping.

Just my .02,

Amos1909

This is my view as well. I had considered moving to another state once, but my network of friends and family is so strong here, I believe it would be a foolish move.

Posted: 4/10/2013 6:20:46 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Being from WV, I think any of the Appalachian counties would be a great place to disappear to. Very gun friendly, plenty of remote, heavily wooded areas, abundant wildlife, abandon coal mines/caves, deep valleys with mountain streams. And WV has very few high population areas.

True, but the high population of meth zombies would be a downfall. Couple that with fact that most of the land had gas wells/pumps/ect. on the property, that could be a major issue. Very few places exist in the state that still retain mineral rights.

Posted: 4/10/2013 6:24:40 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm moving wherever I can find a solid group of devout Catholics who don't mind gunning down cannibal drifters on a whim but still lets me work from home with my 14.4 kilobaud modem.

Really, I think water, terrain, and population should be primary concerns.

Speed

My area has a good catholic community, clergy that CCW, and 10 MB/s fiber optic out in the middle of nowhere.

I was making a JWR joke

I'm not Catholic.

Speed

Posted: 4/10/2013 7:42:32 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm moving wherever I can find a solid group of devout Catholics who don't mind gunning down cannibal drifters on a whim but still lets me work from home with my 14.4 kilobaud modem.

Really, I think water, terrain, and population should be primary concerns.

Speed

My area has a good catholic community, clergy that CCW, and 10 MB/s fiber optic out in the middle of nowhere.

I was making a JWR joke

I'm not Catholic.

Speed

Neither is he.

Posted: 4/10/2013 8:04:59 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
like the plain's states?

Too flat for guerilla warfare or too hard to defend from roving bands of the "golden hoard" Course, OK, KS & NE & SD does of irrigation. Not as lackign in water as say AZ or NV though...

Tell that to the Sioux...

Posted: 4/10/2013 8:34:39 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
I dunno about other people, but my idea of "winning" when it comes to survival is this: Having prepped, thought, equipped and become comfortable enouugh that SHTF events are largely non-events. He who lives well fed, warm, safe and comfortable "wins".

Now its easy to spend all our time prepping for this event. What happens if the event doesn't materialize???

I saw this in large scale with Y2K. Some people got so hardcore about prepping that they threw their regular life away. The sold stuff, ran up huge debt, bought tons of stuff............ and then it did not happen. They were ruined. Prepping to an extent that it ruins everyday life is not san prepping. Rawles often falls into this trap: Rather than prepping for potential problems and thereby reducing their impact (and living better as a result), his prepping has gone so far that it overwhelms his life. HIs everyday life, here and now, is substantially compromised because he's getting ready for an event that might - or might not- happen.

He's got good ideas. But he's often off the deep end. I do live in a rura area and pay a reasonable economic price for doing so. I could make more money in a big city. Howevver, quality of life issues balance the equation. However, abandoning all, moving to remote idaho and homesteading, then spending al my remaining cash on prep items for the end of the world doesn't strike me as particualrly sane. It's like wasting today, tomorrow and all teh tomorrows for years to come on the off chance that the worldends at some indefinite time in the future.

Thankfully, the world doesn't end all that often. I'm a lot more comfortable with sane prepping for relatively reasonable and foreseeable everyday SHTF occurances. Prepping is a means of prolonging my comfort and life. Allowing the prepping to totally consume today for a tomorrow that is relatively unlikely does't make sense. It's sort of like taking a good thing (like vitamins) in suc large doses that it stops being beneficial and starts becoming a poison.
Just my two cents.

They must be buried under fairly thick layers of ignorance and alarmism.

Posted: 4/10/2013 8:35:21 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Yeah, I didnt fully understand the afraid of Mormons thing, either. Especially the Brigham Young remark. Did he realize that under the leadership of Brigham Young, the Mormons repelled a United States Army invasion force know as Johnstons Army from invading SLC without shedding any blood? ( he should read and learn about the so-called Utah War) However, these Mormons were prepared to shed some blood if they had to.

I don't have any problem w/ the incident to which you refer. I have a problem w/ the reign of terror that he enforced with his own secret police. They went out at night and hunted down and exterminated families that turned back from the journey to SLC, being apostates. Many "Mormon" families today (not the LDS but the one that followed Jo Smith's son & went to upstae NY) only exist b/c they were able to escape and evade back to rejoin the other mormon sect. There is reason to believe this sort of thing went on in SLC as well, but naturally records would be lite in this scenario where dissent could get one dissapeared in the night.

Surely you have a source for such claims, right?

Posted: 4/10/2013 9:25:32 AM EDT

[#48]

Lincoln county, WY is not an easy place to live. No jobs unless you can bring your own, really no population (read as want new tshirts, drive to Idaho Falls to get to Walmart. Sounds great in theory, but spending $500+ in gas a month (as a close friend of mine does who lives there and drives to Jackson to work, like most people down that way) it gets old fast. I don't mind driving 1.5 to 2 hours every few months to go eat at Chillis and let my wife shop at Target. Winters are brutal, distances are long. Tolerable when all is going well. If a SHTF scenario hit, (and I'm in wyoming) I'm guessing 90% of my town would die off (assuming just a disruption of food and gas) Obviously that is worst case, but there is no real food production in my area. Winters are reallllllly cold. I had 3 inches of snow yesterday. I wish I could have a real garden. Wyoming is a different deal than most places. Some great things (I know what real freedom feels like compared to the east coast I grew up on). I also know what an environment that wants to kill you just for skiing or enjoying the outdoors looks like. Sobering really.

Posted: 4/10/2013 11:24:38 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Yeah, I didnt fully understand the afraid of Mormons thing, either. Especially the Brigham Young remark. Did he realize that under the leadership of Brigham Young, the Mormons repelled a United States Army invasion force know as Johnstons Army from invading SLC without shedding any blood? ( he should read and learn about the so-called Utah War) However, these Mormons were prepared to shed some blood if they had to.

I don't have any problem w/ the incident to which you refer. I have a problem w/ the reign of terror that he enforced with his own secret police. They went out at night and hunted down and exterminated families that turned back from the journey to SLC, being apostates. Many "Mormon" families today (not the LDS but the one that followed Jo Smith's son & went to upstae NY) only exist b/c they were able to escape and evade back to rejoin the other mormon sect. There is reason to believe this sort of thing went on in SLC as well, but naturally records would be lite in this scenario where dissent could get one dissapeared in the night.

...yeah...ID and WY (Look up Mormon handcart pioneers) and the rest of the west wouldn't work for you. I'll just leave it at that.

Posted: 4/10/2013 12:06:52 PM EDT

[#50]

-most importantly, far from urban areas. Closets cities are: Boise, & SLC, both 260 miles away. Admittedly too close, but Boise is small and SLC isn't gonna have too many roving bandits emerging from it since LDS's prepare & will probably keep pretty good order. (I am wary of LDS people, me being a "Gentile," & being aware of Brigham Young's reign of terror & how generally obedient they are to an athority that allegidly can talk to God...but worry of a LDS conqeust of ID would be a miniscule consideration)
This map indicated the largest urban centers & the danger zones around them:

I stopped reading here. OP fails.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Best County in CONUS to survive SHTF... (Page 1 of 2)

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