Posted: 2/24/2013 12:04:16 PM EDT
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I'm thrilled that we have a generator for short-term back-up power which can help with refrigeration and HVAC systems here in Florida. However, I realized that unless gasoline becomes or stays widely available in days or a few weeks after after a distaster the generator become virtually useless without contributions from friends and family. With this in mind, my "Plan B" for consideration is solar power. Since a whole house system or a unit large enough to sustain HVAC type equipment is very expensive, would I be better off getting a portable solar solution from Goal Zero (see link below) or should I purchase panels, an inventer, a charge controller and batteries to assemble a more robust back-up power system so that I can still have lighting and a minimal amount of electronics powered??? My goal financially would be for this project cost in the hundreds of dollars instead of the thousands of dollars.
Goal Zero Adventure Kit Considered |
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A few years back, we deployed a completely untethered webcam/IR illumunation/wireless AP system and used a pre-packaged 500 watt (peak) solution from a vendor--while it worked and was well thought out, I'd imagine we paid probably double what the individual components would have run had we decided to DIY.
I'd start by considering what you want to run with it--and go from there. That Goal Zero kit might charge a cell phone, run a coffee pot or a laptop, but it probably won't be useful for much more (electric cook top, well pump, lights, fans, etc). Batteries are still what cost you an arm and a leg no matter how you look at it. In an off-the-grid system, you'd look at replacement ever 10 years or so with high-end ($$$$) batteries that get proper maintenance (no deep discharge, topped off water if they're servicable, temperature stabilized enclosure). If you're going to try to use it like a generator though, it would be a crapshoot whether the batteries would still work after being stuffed in a corner of your garage for a year or two between deployments. You could mitigate the damage to the batteries in storage by following a schedule for deploying the system and charging them or keeping them on a battery tender when not in use and never let them drop below 50% charge unless it's an emergency. Using marine/RV deep-cycle batteries, it wouldn't hurt nearly as bad when they go tits-up from sitting, and you could prolong their life following the same no deep discharge/always topped off regimen--maybe 3-4 years with religious maintenance. |
| The Harbor Freight solar kit that people mention frequently is fairly complete from a components perspective. However, I'd like to find a similar kit with more reliable and energy efficient parts. Otherwise, I'll need to pick and choose components on my own, leaving my extremely limited electrical capabilities as a barrier to getting an operational and better yet a reliable solution. |
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Here's a small system I put together using the HF kit. It works fine, but remember that it's only putting 45 watts into the system at best. I have two marine deep cycle batteries rated at 80 amp-hours each and two iverters. I've had to use the system a couple of times for short outages (24 hrs +/-) and it handles the refrigerator, a few lights (cfl bulbs) and the TV/satellite receiver for a short time. Neither inverter is pure sine wave, so running sensitive electronics is iffy.
I have a plan (fantasy) of upgrading to at least 1kw of pannels, a new mppt charge controller, and at least one 1kw pure sine wave inverter. Batteries are a big issue. Marine batteries are not really designed for lots of deep cycles, but golf cart batteries or dedicated solar batteries get very expensive. It's also a shame that all that power I'm generating (all 45 watts) is going to waste most of the time. 
Get one of these to figure out how much power each of the thngs you want to run needs. Multiply the watts by the number of hours each day you want to run it. Add up all the things and that gives you the watt-hours of power you'll need. You'll probably be unpleasantly surprised. 
These pannels at their best deliver 45 watts. Better figure that you'll get that for only part of the day -- say 50% of the daylight hours. The rest of the time they deliver less, sometine a lot less. Assuming that you get 100% of the rated watts for four hours, that's 45 X 4 = 180 watt-hours going into the batteries each day. It doesn't take long to take 180 watt-hours out of the batteries. I'm not saying don't do it, but a dose of reality may help. With a small system (like mine) you're not going to have enough power to sustain a houshold. At best it will give some emergency relief. And, we haven't even mentioned heaters, air conditioners, well pumps and other HUGE energy consumers. |
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first thing before you even consider solar is you have to reduce your total usage. you have a couple of options, first is CFL's and LED house lights with LED drawing the least amount of power. the trade off is they are still expensive. the second is to design a total system around 12v. you can build a portable setup that you can move room to room OR build several, one for each room. running a 12v system means you can build cheap 12v lights just for the system. this lessens the draw off the system since there is no inverter loss. the problem is line loss, so you need to build lights with short cords OR large AWG wire. you can use the portable system to power things like a tv, sat box, game console and even a DVD player to provide news and entertainment for the kids/family.
i personally went with the second option, the portable system during Sandy. i ran a 32" Vizio tv, my directv box and a 23w CFL light for just over 4.5 hours and only used .4v out of the battery. my next setup will be 4 6V golf cart batteries stored inside a custom built entertainment center that will be located in the center of the house. with this setup i should be able to keep everyone entertained as well as keep lights in rooms as needed and should even allow me to run the fridge for a couple of hours as needed. my final plan is to have a solar array that has solar tracking using an Azimuth rotator that is controlled by a netbook running tracking software. this will give me the most output from sunrise to sunset since it will track the sun all day automatically. the final plan is to be 80-90% off grid within 5 years of moving into our own house. |
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I've been working on this in my spare time and was going to post up when I was done. My goal is to keep my mini fridge and mini freezer going without needing gasoline. The system should have enough extra power to run a TV, computer, lights, etc to help keep the family sane.
Specs: - 2000 watt pure sinewave inverter/charger - 12V 80amp MPPT charge controller. (MPPT was important to get the most out of the solar panels and reduce line losses by being able to run the panels in series with a transmission line voltage of 130 VDC @ 8 amps max - 4x 6V golf cart batteries - 3x 255watt mono-crystalline panels I'm almost done with the inverter/charger part of the project. All that is left will be designing and building mobile mounts for the solar panels. Part 1 Part 2 |
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I've been working on this in my spare time and was going to post up when I was done. My goal is to keep my mini fridge and mini freezer going without needing gasoline. The system should have enough extra power to run a TV, computer, lights, etc to help keep the family sane. Specs: - 2000 watt pure sinewave inverter/charger - 12V 80amp MPPT charge controller. (MPPT was important to get the most out of the solar panels and reduce line losses by being able to run the panels in series with a transmission line voltage of 130 VDC @ 8 amps max - 4x 6V golf cart batteries - 3x 255watt mono-crystalline panels I'm almost done with the inverter/charger part of the project. All that is left will be designing and building mobile mounts for the solar panels. Part 1 Part 2 What is your total cost and if you have time could you link all the components? |
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Thanks so much for the feedback. Hoewver, I get the sense that few people get beyond a generator strategy given the limited responses to my thread. The problem I see with your requirements is that building a quality solar system for "hundreds of dollars" is not entirely feasible. I have $1000s in mine and it can only offset 1 gallon of gasoline through a Honda EU2000i genny running in low output mode. For me, that is my base load, but others will need a larger system. |
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What is your total cost and if you have time could you link all the components? Inverter: Xantrex PROsine 2.0 $1500 Charge Controller: Outback FlexMax80 $585 Batteries: Energizer GC2 Battery 4x $80 Solar Panels 250 watt panels (mine were same brand, but 255 watt) 3x $275 Hardware, cables, connectors, shunt, mounts/frames, taxes, shipping et.c ~$800 Total: ~$4000 |
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I saw one of these at Costco the other day: Wagen Tech Solar e-Power cube 1500. Does anyone have any experience with one?
Quick specs: 1500W power inverter Five, 16W solar panels (80W total) AC, DC and solar charging options 2 AC outlets, 2 DC outlets and 2 USB ports 55 Ah Gel/AGM hybrid battery Handle and wheels for easy moving 
WagenTech 1500 |
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Quoted: Its really neat but its something like 600 bucks right? I saw one today at costco. You can get a 240 watt sharp panel for around 400-450. in the end it would cost a little more to DIY it but you would have 3X the capacity. build it into a $50 HF metal cart and it would be mobile too. I saw one of these at Costco the other day: Wagen Tech Solar e-Power cube 1500. Does anyone have any experience with one? Quick specs: 1500W power inverter Five, 16W solar panels (80W total) AC, DC and solar charging options 2 AC outlets, 2 DC outlets and 2 USB ports 55 Ah Gel/AGM hybrid battery Handle and wheels for easy moving http://c276521.r21.cf1.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/solar-cube.jpg WagenTech 1500 |
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I saw one of these at Costco the other day: Wagen Tech Solar e-Power cube 1500. Does anyone have any experience with one? Quick specs: 1500W power inverter Five, 16W solar panels (80W total) AC, DC and solar charging options 2 AC outlets, 2 DC outlets and 2 USB ports 55 Ah Gel/AGM hybrid battery Handle and wheels for easy moving http://c276521.r21.cf1.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/solar-cube.jpg WagenTech 1500 you can do much better for $1000. |
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The goal zero battery pack is not bad for charging cell phones and operating a few LED lights. That's about it. I like the portability and packaging. The panels however are way overpriced per watt. ETA: wait on the yeti 150 if you go this route.
I would avoid harbor freight solar kits. A couple of years ago you could make an argument for them based on low cost. Now, panels have gotten so cheap the HF stuff is actually more expensive. You can go to solar blvd and purchase a better, higher output panel, and name brand charge controller for less than HF sells their kit for. Rule of thumb for for connecting solar into a 12V inverter systems is at least 1 watt per amp hour of battery capacity. If you tie two GC batteries together you should plan on using a 200-300 watts of panels to keep the system healthy. Another plan would be to build the battery/inverter system and use a generator with battery charger to charge the system. This would allow you to run it only a few hours a day. For long term system health you wouldn't want to run the system for more than about 1300 watt hours or so between charges. Sample system cost 2GC batteries $250 2 -120 watt solar blvd (solar cynergy) panels $325 Morningstar sunsaver 20 L charge controller $80 xantrex prowatt 1000 inverter $300 wire, fuses, hardware $150 total- $1100ish. 240 watts of peak solar, output, 220 ah of battery capacity, scalable and pure sine wave output. More capable than anything pre made for the $$ |
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What is your total cost and if you have time could you link all the components? Inverter: Xantrex PROsine 2.0 $1500 Charge Controller: Outback FlexMax80 $585 Batteries: Energizer GC2 Battery 4x $80 Solar Panels 250 watt panels (mine were same brand, but 255 watt) 3x $275 Hardware, cables, connectors, shunt, mounts/frames, taxes, shipping et.c ~$800 Total: ~$4000 I am going to be building this system onto the roof on my back porch. Everything will be run into my basement. If shtf basement will be primary location especially in the winter because it will take so little to heat. I will probably wire in some outlets into my basement specifically off this system. |
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What is your total cost and if you have time could you link all the components? Inverter: Xantrex PROsine 2.0 $1500 Charge Controller: Outback FlexMax80 $585 Batteries: Energizer GC2 Battery 4x $80 Solar Panels 250 watt panels (mine were same brand, but 255 watt) 3x $275 Hardware, cables, connectors, shunt, mounts/frames, taxes, shipping et.c ~$800 Total: ~$4000 I am going to be building this system onto the roof on my back porch. Everything will be run into my basement. If shtf basement will be primary location especially in the winter because it will take so little to heat. I will probably wire in some outlets into my basement specifically off this system. Depending on how much you're trying to run, you may want to use 8 golf cart batteries or equivalent. Deep cycles will last long if your Depth of Discharge is only 20-25% |
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I saw one of these at Costco the other day: Wagen Tech Solar e-Power cube 1500. Does anyone have any experience with one? Quick specs: 1500W power inverter Five, 16W solar panels (80W total) AC, DC and solar charging options 2 AC outlets, 2 DC outlets and 2 USB ports 55 Ah Gel/AGM hybrid battery Handle and wheels for easy moving http://c276521.r21.cf1.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/solar-cube.jpg WagenTech 1500 you can do much better for $1000. This system looks pretty attractive to me! 
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This is how it starts... it ends in complete solar power for your house
Honestly, getting into solar stuff was the best decision I've made in my life. First, I learned a new trade. I knew next to nothing about electrical anything, and now I've wired my house, my system, and tons of other things. Batteries is a new hobby unto itself. Second, I've learned how to be more efficient. I was amazed how little power I consume when I pay attention to what I'm doing, upgrade to LED lighting, and find alternatives to clothes drying and cooking. Third, I spent an entire summer with my dad doing everything up, and got a lot closer to him than I've been in 20 years. Found out he had tons of information/stories that I never would have known otherwise. Getting closer to family is always a plus. It's a hobby, an adventure, a learning experience, and honestly it made me a more competent and useful person. |
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Quoted: Its really neat but its something like 600 bucks right? I saw one today at costco. You can get a 240 watt sharp panel for around 400-450. in the end it would cost a little more to DIY it but you would have 3X the capacity. build it into a $50 HF metal cart and it would be mobile too. If you're only going to buy one panel, that might not be a terrible deal. I got 12 of those 235W Sharps for $0.85/W + $200 freight. I whole-heartedly agree that the larger sharp panel will spank the poo out of the little HF setup in durability, performance and $/W. There's a lkot more to a system than the panels, but don't skimp there either. I'm still in the process of working mine out, so I won't offer any practical operational advice. I will say this though, if you're going to try to build something that will run your minimal base load (say kitchen lights and refrigerator), then build it right and run it that way all the time! Why invest the money to not use the stuff? At the point you've purchased, assembled, and tested it all, you're pissing away $ not having it in service 24x7. If you can't leave it in service 24x7 w/ your minimal loads, then you didn't build the right thing... My $.02 -Slice |
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Any other inverter recommendations? Looks like Xantrex is having some issues....
Amazon |
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Good call on the reviews..let's work on finding the best of each component in multiple price ranges and getting a list going. I will start researching later my sons second birthday party starts soon 
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Not all Xantrex are created the same. Their XW series, made/sold by Schneider Electric (read: square-D) has some outstanding ratings and is sold as an industrial component. Outback has an excellent reputation for years/decade+ of trouble-free service. neither are cheap, but there's a reason for that. |
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Good call on the reviews..let's work on finding the best of each component in multiple price ranges and getting a list going. I will start researching later my sons second birthday party starts soon
I've had great luck with my Sunforce Pure Sine. While I was building my home, I lived in an RV for about a month in the hot summer, and it ran my refriderator and AC nearly non-stop without a single issue. http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100660092?productId=100660092&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100660092&ci_kw={keyword}&kwd={keyword}&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-100660092&ci_gpa=pla#.UTOPv1ewUvo Now that my house has been converted to solar, this inverter has been placed into backup (since it's only 1000W,) and is the main inverter for my reserve solar/wind system (1.2KW, 7800AH.) It still gets used a lot, though, because I run my garage/deepfreezer/office computer off of it. |
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I saw one of these at Costco the other day: Wagen Tech Solar e-Power cube 1500. Does anyone have any experience with one? Quick specs: 1500W power inverter Five, 16W solar panels (80W total) AC, DC and solar charging options 2 AC outlets, 2 DC outlets and 2 USB ports 55 Ah Gel/AGM hybrid battery Handle and wheels for easy moving http://c276521.r21.cf1.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/solar-cube.jpg WagenTech 1500 you can do much better for $1000. This system looks pretty attractive to me!
oh yeah, how about this. batteries, 2 6v 215Ah golf cart batteries: $80 each=$160 (or a 12v 110ah $120) 1500w inverter: $164 single 85w, 12v panel: $200 charge controller: $14 case and assorted wires and hardware: $100-150. this more than doubles(at the low end) and more than quadruples it at the high end if you add a second panel. so for $600 you have doubled your run time or for at the highest end, $880 you have quadrupled it. of course you can use any combo in between. so as you can see, it isnt that good of a deal. |
| I've had my ProSine 2.0 for several years and it works fine. I use it every couple of weeks to exercise my 12v bank and used to use it for power outages until I installed a 48v inverter for the main house inverter. Now basically it is for a backup to my backup system but like I said it does get used on a regular basis. |
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Wow, those reviews are awful. Maybe I lucked out since I bought mine years ago. If I was starting over, I would buy Outback. |
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Would that Goal Zero Yeti kit be a good deal for temporary emergency power for an apartment? I'm just looking to keep a laptop charged, some led lights, a small one burner countertop stove and possibly a small ac unit if at all possible. you can build better for the same money or less. case in point, that thing has a 100Ah battery. i bought a 110Ah battery from autozone for $120. so that would leave you with $1280 to spend on the rest of what you need. |
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I saw one of these at Costco the other day: Wagen Tech Solar e-Power cube 1500. Does anyone have any experience with one? Quick specs: 1500W power inverter Five, 16W solar panels (80W total) AC, DC and solar charging options 2 AC outlets, 2 DC outlets and 2 USB ports 55 Ah Gel/AGM hybrid battery Handle and wheels for easy moving http://c276521.r21.cf1.rackcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/solar-cube.jpg WagenTech 1500 you can do much better for $1000. This system looks pretty attractive to me!
UNGODLY overpriced for what you get |
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Would that Goal Zero Yeti kit be a good deal for temporary emergency power for an apartment? I'm just looking to keep a laptop charged, some led lights, a small one burner countertop stove and possibly a small ac unit if at all possible. Forget the latter two unless you have 10k to spend. |