Posted: 1/27/2013 7:43:29 PM EDT
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I'm asking this question in both the survival, and the reloading forums for a reason.....I'm a bit of both, I'd like the opinions from both crowds. Survivalists are "long-term storage guys"....and reloaders are "gunpowder guys" Perhaps they don't agree on everything, but they will agree on the fact that we all try to take good care of our ammo stash......we all have one.
I can't seen to figure some stuff out. I get some of the science, but not enough. I like many others keep my ammo stash stored in nice, clean, military ammo cans with a desiccant pack. I know this is sufficient for 20-30+ years, since I've experienced it personally. I routinely shoot from a stash built up by my father in the 80's. For a "rotated" shootin stash, I find this adequate. I ended up with a few cans of quality store bought ammo that I honestly have no intention of EVER opening. I honestly want this stuff to become an heirloom, along with the firearms, even iincluding the building their stored in. Honestly......a lifetime supply of hunting ammo, for hunting guns, that are stored at the hunting cabin......heirlooms. I have to think that there's a "BEST" way to store ammo.......but it's never jumped out at me. I could store store it in mylar bags, with an oxygen absorber. An excellent way to store dry and metallic goods. The mylar seals the oxygen out, and the oxygen is removed from within. Often resulting an a vacuum being created. No oxygen for oxidation, or life......I get it The metal inside will benefit from this environment,lacking oxygen should slow oxidation, but what about the propellants? The propellants and priming compound contain oxidizers......Like the potassium nitrate (kno3) in basic blackpowder. The oxygen contained acts as an oxidizer in the chemical reaction......basically making the stuff "do what it does".....PROPERLY ******Will the nature of the oxygen absorber, absorb any of the oxygen present in the propellants? I could use the Foodsaver, and just vacuum seal it. A good way to store meat. or the extra fuses and spark plugs for your boat.... ******Will the vacuum have any ill effect? Recently this was posted in another thread. Making me wonder what other examples of improper long term storage exist.......and given current technology, what is the best way for me to store ammo today? Quoted:
another thing to consider is surplus ammo does degrade. Hell that's why countries surplus it in the first place. SA battlepacks had issues with termites or some other bug eating pin holes into the bags breaking the seal and ammo got tarnished. Some DAG ended up the same way greek M2 ball spam cans with 20 round carboard boxes had the glue flaps eat at the end cartridges causing various heavy corrosion I have small amounts of collector WWII M2 ammo and some of the primers are corroding through from salts of the primer compound. Other stuff still seems premo like 7.62x54R, it's as good as it ever was coming out of the spam cans. |
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Just put it in a ammo can, no need for all that other crap you have questions about. Why are you making it hard? 
I'm not making it hard at all. Not any harder than storing rice. I learned the best possible way to store it for as long as possible, then did it. If thats hard......and i'll do it with $250 worth of rice, then I feel justified in doing it with $1000s in ammo, powder, and primers. |
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Store in ammo cans with good seals. Throw in a few dessicant packs for good measure if you want. Your grandkids will be able to shoot the ammo with their grandkids.
I routinely shoot 30-35 year old ammo that has been stored in an old footlocker in a damp basement without any problems. Ammo cans are significantly better than the old footlocker. |
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Store in ammo cans with good seals. Throw in a few dessicant packs for good measure if you want. Your grandkids will be able to shoot the ammo with their grandkids. I routinely shoot 30-35 year old ammo that has been stored in an old footlocker in a damp basement without any problems. Ammo cans are significantly better than the old footlocker. this... ammo will degrade, but not any where in your lifetime... just dont store it in water and youll come out on top 
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I bought some of the Guatemalan 556 back when it was $15/100!!
When we opened up the thick plastic battle packs, some of the ammo was tarnished...well more that a little tarnished even though the packs were from a wooden crate and looked new. I think all plastics are some what permeable to moisture. Looking at the crates I think there is a reason they went to the trouble of putting extra stats on the bottom to keep it off the ground and let air circulate underneath it. If I had any ammo cans I would get them off the ground/floor a inch or so. A piece of plywood and some 1 inch boards would do it. |
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Just put it in a ammo can, no need for all that other crap you have questions about. Why are you making it hard?
This ^ As long it's it's kept relatively dry (low humidity) and room temperture (or lower) stabil (to reduce condensation) don't fret it. I've shot .32 Win Spc that my grandfather bought in the late 50s with no problems, and it was stored on shelves in the basement till I got it. 50+ year old ammo still going bang. |
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Just put it in a ammo can, no need for all that other crap you have questions about. Why are you making it hard?
This ^ As long it's it's kept relatively dry (low humidity) and room temperture (or lower) stabil (to reduce condensation) don't fret it. I've shot .32 Win Spc that my grandfather bought in the late 50s with no problems, and it was stored on shelves in the basement till I got it. 50+ year old ammo still going bang. +2 Ammo is very stable and forgiving. Remember that most mil ammo ia sealed and even reloads stay good on the shelf if kept in reasonable conditions. I'm shooting 30 year old reloads, Turk 8mm from the 40's, Brit .303 of similar age, and I shot up all mt .30 M1 carbine ammo w/ WW2 dates. Use good ammo cans and get them as full as possible and you won't need the other stuff |
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Looking at the crates I think there is a reason they went to the trouble of putting extra stats on the bottom to keep it off the ground and let air circulate underneath it. . Well you need someway to get the forklift's skids under the crate.  I thought they put the crates on a pallet, then used a forklift????????? |
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If thats hard......and i'll do it with $250 worth of rice, then I feel justified in doing it with $1000s in ammo, powder, and primers. so storing ammo and storing food require the same conditions- got it.
Yeh, thats what i said.......do you even read a post? So far in your three posts here, you haven't tried to address any question I had, or even made an attepmt at intelligent conversation. All you've tried to do is make me look like a fool for wondering if someone had improved on a metal can with a rubber gasket in the last 50 years. |
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Only thing I can think of to improve the metal ammo can with gasket and desiccant is to pull the ammo from the boxes and carefully pack it in mylar with a desiccant and vaccume seal it. Then place in ammo can with more desiccant, chunk of aluminum as a sacrificial anode, and fill/seal with nitrogen.
I am sort of worried about the mylar interacting with the ammunition in some unexpected way. Hell, maybe the nitrogen will to. I am no expert. |
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30cal cans, with a desiccant in them if it's ammo I don't think I'll shoot in the next couple of years. Most of the time, I pack the 30cal cans so tight with loose ammo that I don't worry about desiccant; there simply isn't enough air inside to contain enough moisture to worry me. It's a lot of ammo and a tiny bit of moisture. Quoted: Only thing I can think of to improve the metal ammo can with gasket and desiccant is to pull the ammo from the boxes and carefully pack it in mylar with a desiccant and vaccume seal it. Then place in ammo can with more desiccant, chunk of aluminum as a sacrificial anode, and fill/seal with nitrogen. I am sort of worried about the mylar interacting with the ammunition in some unexpected way. Hell, maybe the nitrogen will to. I am no expert. How important is that? I have a lot of ammo packed in direct contact with the can. |
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Only thing I can think of to improve the metal ammo can with gasket and desiccant is to pull the ammo from the boxes and carefully pack it in mylar with a desiccant and vaccume seal it. Then place in ammo can with more desiccant, chunk of aluminum as a sacrificial anode, and fill/seal with nitrogen. I am sort of worried about the mylar interacting with the ammunition in some unexpected way. Hell, maybe the nitrogen will to. I am no expert. CP for ammo. Now that's what I'm talking 'bout |
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Quoted: Yeah I read it, and my 1st post was a "ammo can", and I said you were over thinking it with the "science" you posted about. So Yes I read it and tried to break your circular argument with a simple and rational answer. Yeh, thats what i said.......do you even read a post? So far in your three posts here, you haven't tried to address any question I had, or even made an attepmt at intelligent conversation. All you've tried to do is make me look like a fool for wondering if someone had improved on a metal can with a rubber gasket in the last 50 years. You got the best answer, then tried to compare it to food storage, which it is most defiantly not. Its not harder than storing rice as you alluded to, its easier. <Dump in can, close> pretty simple You now had a couple other guys tell you the same thing. If you want to triple wrap in mylar, vacuum pump a box full of nitrogen, encase in a vault covered in cement becuase you think you know more the multi-billion dollar professionals in ammo storage (US DOD), then be my guess, but it wont help. |
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Just put it in a ammo can, no need for all that other crap you have questions about. Why are you making it hard?
I put 100 rounds in a quart freezer bag, then fill ammo cans full and toss in a desiccant pack. 50 cal for pistol and .22lr, 40mm cans for rifle and shotgun. |
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Yeah I read it, and my 1st post was a "ammo can", and I said you were over thinking it with the "science" you posted about. So Yes I read it and tried to break your circular argument with a simple and rational answer.
Yeh, thats what i said.......do you even read a post? So far in your three posts here, you haven't tried to address any question I had, or even made an attepmt at intelligent conversation. All you've tried to do is make me look like a fool for wondering if someone had improved on a metal can with a rubber gasket in the last 50 years. You got the best answer, then tried to compare it to food storage, which it is most defiantly not. Its not harder than storing rice as you alluded to, its easier. <Dump in can, close> pretty simple You now had a couple other guys tell you the same thing. If you want to triple wrap in mylar, vacuum pump a box full of nitrogen, encase in a vault covered in cement becuase you think you know more the multi-billion dollar professionals in ammo storage (US DOD), then be my guess, but it wont help. 
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Ammo cans are water resistant, not water proof. For most of my ammo, I was fine with that. I figure I'll shoot it later this year or next, or maybe 10 years from now. There is some ammo that I store for long term. That's the stuff I'll never break into as long as the world doesn't go completely to sh!7, my kids will probably end up with this stuff.
I've seen stuff in good .50 cal ammo cans get ruined twice. Once was a job where a garage had partially burned. The fire department had put out the fire but the high pressure hose had blown water past the gaskets of a couple of cans that were used for some expensive automobile diagnostic electronics. It was all ruined. Another time was a friend that had a rather tight storage space built in his utility room. He had a bunch of full ammo cans stored in there. A pipe broke in the adjacent wall and the space filled with 12 or 14 inches of water before it ran over. The first layer of ammo cans all had some amount of water in them, a couple of them full. It ruined A LOT of ammo. Years ago I bought an impulse heat sealer and a box of 6 mil 3"x5" poly bags. I started out using it to pack most of my loose bulk ammo just to make it easy to grab a couple of packs and go shooting. I also use it for everything I reload. I'll seal up 50 round packs of 9mm because it easier than using boxes. A couple of bags in a pocket carry easily and you don't have to worry about sweat. Now I do it for bulk .22 and most everything else. The 3x5 seem to be perfect for most of my ammo, 20 rounds of .223, 50 rounds 9mm, 50 rounds .38, 10 rounds .44mag, 5 rounds of 12 guage, etc. I've packed up my long long term storage ammo and put it back into the 50 cal cans. Easy to count out how much you have. Easy to break down into smaller units to carry. Easy to hand out, to trade, or to sell if the SHTF. I just looked on ebay for impulse sealers and holy moley they're a lot cheaper than they were 15 years ago. There's no reason everybody shouldn't have one. |
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30cal cans, with a desiccant in them if it's ammo I don't think I'll shoot in the next couple of years. Most of the time, I pack the 30cal cans so tight with loose ammo that I don't worry about desiccant; there simply isn't enough air inside to contain enough moisture to worry me. It's a lot of ammo and a tiny bit of moisture. Quoted:
Only thing I can think of to improve the metal ammo can with gasket and desiccant is to pull the ammo from the boxes and carefully pack it in mylar with a desiccant and vaccume seal it. Then place in ammo can with more desiccant, chunk of aluminum as a sacrificial anode, and fill/seal with nitrogen. I am sort of worried about the mylar interacting with the ammunition in some unexpected way. Hell, maybe the nitrogen will to. I am no expert. How important is that? I have a lot of ammo packed in direct contact with the can. It doesn't make any sense. Steel is anodic to copper. In otherwords the steel would become the scarificial anode- but again it doesn't make sense for a sealed ammo can. If subject to salt spray, or even salt air, it would be beneficial to isolate the two |
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Quoted: Ammo cans are water resistant, not water proof. For most of my ammo, Well my cans are "air proof" meaning they wont let air in or out, how would water get into them exactly? As to your experience about the leaking cans, If you have good seals they will not do that. |
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You guys are just thinking storage, not heirloom.
- Never used, just passed down from generation to generation. Quoted:
I ended up with a few cans of quality store bought ammo that I honestly have no intention of EVER opening. I honestly want this stuff to become an heirloom, along with the firearms, even iincluding the building their stored in. Honestly......a lifetime supply of hunting ammo, for hunting guns, that are stored at the hunting cabin......heirlooms. Sounds like a shrine. I think the OP should vac-pac each individual round in Mylar, then pack it and seal it in an ammo can, weld the ammo can shut and seal the can in a Mylar bag with O2 absorbers. Of course, my money is on that whoever gets this ammo after he passes will open it and shoot it. 
I will be happy if i am able to pass on my favorite guns to my kids and grand kids without them being confiscated. |
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You now had a couple other guys tell you the same thing. If you want to triple wrap in mylar, vacuum pump a box full of nitrogen, encase in a vault covered in cement becuase you think you know more the multi-billion dollar professionals in ammo storage (US DOD), then be my guess, but it wont help. Dude you forgot the stasis field....
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Years ago I bought an impulse heat sealer and a box of 6 mil 3"x5" poly bags. I started out using it to pack most of my loose bulk ammo just to make it easy to grab a couple of packs and go shooting. I also use it for everything I reload. I'll seal up 50 round packs of 9mm because it easier than using boxes. A couple of bags in a pocket carry easily and you don't have to worry about sweat. Now I do it for bulk .22 and most everything else. The 3x5 seem to be perfect for most of my ammo, 20 rounds of .223, 50 rounds 9mm, 50 rounds .38, 10 rounds .44mag, 5 rounds of 12 guage, etc. I've packed up my long long term storage ammo and put it back into the 50 cal cans. Easy to count out how much you have. Easy to break down into smaller units to carry. Easy to hand out, to trade, or to sell if the SHTF. I just looked on ebay for impulse sealers and holy moley they're a lot cheaper than they were 15 years ago. There's no reason everybody shouldn't have one. Not a bad idea. Last week someone (in GD of all places) mentioned using Zip Lock bags for the same function. I don't repack factory ammo, but my bulk reloads are now all packed in zip lock bags instead of being stored loose in the can. You're right, when it's packed in a bag it does make it easier to grab for use at the range and for inventory. |
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Only thing I can think of to improve the metal ammo can with gasket and desiccant is to pull the ammo from the boxes and carefully pack it in mylar with a desiccant and vaccume seal it. Then place in ammo can with more desiccant, chunk of aluminum as a sacrificial anode, and fill/seal with nitrogen. I am sort of worried about the mylar interacting with the ammunition in some unexpected way. Hell, maybe the nitrogen will to. I am no expert. Never vacuum pack ammo. Where does the pressure inside the cases go when you vacuum pack? It can actually pop the bullets out of the cases. |