[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Post Sandy AAR (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 10/30/2012 6:11:28 PM EDT
| I know it might be a bit early-but I'd be interested in a post Sandy AAR for learning points to be had from this thing. |
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no AAR for here (just a wind/rain event where I am) but I'm headed to LI in the morning..... I'll try to post back with some pics if I can *edit* just a few things first, what my family was dealing with:  that's 3 miles inland from the beach..... (canals closer but - that far from the "barrier" of Long Beach) houses within 4 - 5 miles of the shore all got water unless there was some mitigating circumstance (on a hill for instance) no power - some spots they're estimating not until the 11th - my MIL's town (has its own utility company) still isn't on.... water in houses WILL rip your oil tank open - plan on an oil filled basement any burner under water is done for..... expect to be cold even if you have a generator and can get the burner power - try to have an alternate source of heat if it's going to be cold out there is NO cell service - not even texting.... if I went to my family's place my phone sat there like I was in the middle of nowhere..... nothing - not 1x, not 3g, not 4g...... may as well be an overpriced palm pilot.... the ONLY communications were walking to talk to someone, or radios...... I sent a ham radio-gram to my SSgt to let him know I was ok for our nightly check-in because there was no service there is NO gas..... some stations opened - they quickly ran out.... some were submerged - can't use their gas.... some have no generators.... the ones in the last category are empty. They're estimating at least 2-3 days until they can truck more fuel into NY - the refineries in NJ were all submerged - one or two dumped quite a bit of oil into Arthur Kill. There was no sewage for a few days - treatment plant flooded then caught fire - it serviced a 7x13 mile area of Long Island... ~1.5 million people - they were dumping raw sewage into the canal and people were being told to limit wastewater.... they're still saying tap water is ok..... I'd still use bottled for a bit or until I could check on my own. most people are taking it in stride - there are fights breaking out at gas stations and over food.... but they're hardly widespread. NG convoys all over the place keep food and water - not just in your basement if flooding MAY be an issue.... get your ham ticket - that was the only comms keep gas around - if they had a fixed generator it would have been useless - think about that when siting yours - also, NG is mostly on but they're turning it off in many places so they can restore power - think about having an alternate fuel source keep valuables in plastic - there are many rubbermade containers floating around that just need to be washed off - the stuff inside stayed dry. be ready ahead of the storm - going out the day before to get things you need isn't going to work.... of course, I'm preaching to the choir for many here..... here are maps of the storm surge as well as others: *edit - update* spoke to family today - they had the basement pumped (their pump wasn't moving the water fast enough) and, of course it's seeping back in. no power still - looking a week at least out for it. No gas - people on line for 4 hours. Only heat source right now is the stove.... still spotty cell service on the south shore - I may end up making another supply run to them or, even better, telling them to close up and make the drive out here for a bit. |
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ETA: My Location South Eastern PA near Valley Forge
Here are a few of my obeservations most are pretty much expected... as soon as it became obvious we were going to get hit the sheep went shopping and bought up every generator out there. Gas cans, extension cords, D, C and AA batteries along with all flashlights were cleared out. Candles and oil lamps ironically seemed to be in stock everywhere so I guess the sheep don't consider them viable options? Chainsaws were another item that were selling fast and so was the tools to sharpen them while 2cycle oil, chains, etc were still on the shelves. There were long lines for gas a couple days before the storm and propane was an item that was sold out quickly. I think in this case people were topping off gas tanks and cans for fear of loosing power as well as potential refinery issues that would cause prices to climb. I know I bought extra gas more for the fear of prices going up then really needing it for a power outage. Otherwise, people were making lots of french toast OR they were eating fried egg sandwiches with their cold glas of milk as eggs, bread, and milk were the items first to sell out. Canned goods were a non issue anywhere. Next, several of our relatives and friends lost power and I went to let them use our generator. The issue here is none of them have a generator transfer pannel or intelock kit and I didn't have the parts to make my own suicide cord. I think I need to look into making a short adapter cable to go from my 30A generator extension cord to a dryer plug for those situations. I also have a pair of deep cycle batteries that I have for emergencies along with the adapters to run or charge quite a bit from them. I still do not have a solar panel or solar charger and I do need to add some solar to my preps. Even if it only helped maintain the power in the 12v deep cycle batteries for charging cell phones and the like that is important! Finally, I had to drive quite a bit tonight through areas where there was no power and I ran into MANY dead zones with no cell phone coverage for both voice and data! I had not seen that before so my hevy reliance on my cell phone for Comms could be a mistake if we ever lost power on a larger scale as cell phones towers were obviusly down because of the power outage! This is something I need to consider some! Also, I realized today that I did not have current and a complete list of phone numbers in my phone to check on relatives. I need to work on a better phone and address list and convert it to PDF and save it on the laptop as wella s my iphone plus paper! Well, that's about all I can think of... |
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There has to be more lessons learned to share?
I was watching the news this morning and there was a story about the long lines and people driving long distances to get gas for their generators. The lines were insane with people carying their gas cans up to the pumps. This again is a local event, if we had a much wider event just imagine how difficult it would be to get gassoline or anything else! This is a solid reminder to me that I really need to prioritize the investment of a smaller and more efficient Honda EU2000i generator to complement our 5500 running Brigs and Straton Generator that we have now for emergencies! The other thing I noted was the people commenting how they were running out of money! Financial preps are important and it is an area I have been failing at as well but we have had a few bad years that ave really put us behind. That needs to also become a higher priority for us to dig out of the situation we are in but then again we were good until we had bad luck that drained that... Please, there are lessons to be learned here, lets's try to document and share them! |
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There has to be more lessons learned to share? I'm guessing that the membership with the most first person stories to tell may have bigger issues at hand than jumping on to ARF to give a blow by blow. The AARs will come with time. I've always said that its best to learn from the mistakes of others rather than your own. Read the "tempers flaring"- type threads and plan your own affairs accordingly |
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I lost power for a couple of days, but thanks to many hours of lurking here it was basically a non-event. The sum total of doing anything different was topping my car off on Saturday rather than waiting to be at 1/2 a tank.
However. I did learn that it can be the most trivial things that trip you up. I went to fill the bath tub on Monday afternoon only to find that the stopper was leaking (I shower - who has time for baths?). A stupid $2 stopper got in the way of ensuring a supply of water for toilet flushing. Sure I could have improvised something, but nonetheless, it goes to show how the most minor of details matter. I also learned a little about human nature. I'm not a particularly gregarious person and only know a handful of my neighbors by name. As we got close to 24 hours into the power outage, I asked a few of them if they wanted to borrrow my spare generator for a couple of hours to run fridges / freezers etc to keep things nice and frosty and maybe charge cellphones. Nope. Not a single taker. "I'm sure it'll be back up soon", "Just going to ride it out" and so on. Most baffling of all was "I have a friend (one town over) with room in her freezer, I can take my frozen food over there if I need to". Because it would be more convenient to pack it up, drive it to the next town, unpack it, wait for the power to come back on, drive back, pack it up again, and then bring it home to unpack? I don't get it. I wasn't asking anything for use of the generator, heck, I wasn't asking anything for the gas to run it (it needed rotating anyway) and I even had extension cords. I need to rewind a year at this point. During Irene we lost power for about a week, and by day 3 or 4 I was busy making pots of coffee for some of these same people and providing hot showers. I heard the complaints about spoiled food and how could it take this long to restore power. It took the sum total of a year for them to completely forget that experience and be back to trusting that any power interruption would be brief. Nevermind that they had done NOTHING to mitigate any future problems, they wouldn't accept free help when it was offered and assumed, in the face of recent experience to the contrary, that all would soon be well. So I guess I learned that even seemingly intelligent people don't learn and have far too much trust in things that they have no control over. It's sad. |
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Fairview Park, a South West suburb of Cleveland.
On a personal level, not much problem. Power has been out since Sunday night. I live in an apartment and can't use a generator, so this morning I threw out all the spoiled stuff from the freezer and fridge. 59% of the city is still without power, and power MAY be back by Sunday. Have plenty of lanterns, candles, light sources in general. A propane cook top for hot food. A fairly high capacity UPS for the electronics keeps my phones and tablet charged so I have internet, music to listen to, movies to watch, and books to read. Plenty of water and drinks stocked. Insulin and other stuff in the coolers is still fine. Grocery stores are starting to come back on generator power. Lots of roads blocked with trees. And it's still raining. EDIT: Power came back on this afternoon. Seems that my apartment is on the same bit of the grid as a school, and schools, emergency services like Police, Fire, and medical, and govt. buildings have priority for repair. At least that's what the guy working on it said. And I gained the benefit of that. Lucked out for sure. The rest of the area probably won't get power until Monday according to First Energy. |
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<snip> I also learned a little about human nature. I'm not a particularly gregarious person and only know a handful of my neighbors by name. As we got close to 24 hours into the power outage, I asked a few of them if they wanted to borrrow my spare generator for a couple of hours to run fridges / freezers etc to keep things nice and frosty and maybe charge cellphones. Nope. Not a single taker. "I'm sure it'll be back up soon", "Just going to ride it out" and so on. Most baffling of all was "I have a friend (one town over) with room in her freezer, I can take my frozen food over there if I need to". Because it would be more convenient to pack it up, drive it to the next town, unpack it, wait for the power to come back on, drive back, pack it up again, and then bring it home to unpack? I don't get it. I wasn't asking anything for use of the generator, heck, I wasn't asking anything for the gas to run it (it needed rotating anyway) and I even had extension cords. I might be wrong, but i think this has more to do with the way our society has progressed. If they accept your help, then they may feel obligated to you or feel the need to say "thank you". I bet if the .gov was handing out generators, they would be more than happy to take one. No strings attached (meaning, no one to judge them for not having one) and no need to say "thank you" since its not coming directly from someone that lives in their neighborhood. OTOH, I would have a hard time borrowing something like a generator because I would actually feel obligated to replace the generator if it broke while I was using it. so, maybe some of them just didn't want to feel responsible if something happened to it. |
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stroudsburg, pa here. been in nj the last few days to help out with my parents and inlaws. lucky for them i didn't need to use my gen set so i could set up each with one.
lesson learned peopel are stupid. they will drive around all day looking for gas when all they have to do is get their lazy asses out of bed early. I filled up my 11 gal tote at 5am this morning and I was the only car in the place. people without gens expect to be able to borrow yours. had many "friends" call and ask ti use mine. people with gens don't have any gas for them. most of the station that were open had gas can only lines, most were very long. people with gens have no idea how to use them or set them up. people will wait in a 45 min line to get coffe from the one DD that was open learned that cell phones cant be trusted in time of need. |
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I might be wrong, but i think this has more to do with the way our society has progressed. If they accept your help, then they may feel obligated to you or feel the need to say "thank you". I bet if the .gov was handing out generators, they would be more than happy to take one. No strings attached (meaning, no one to judge them for not having one) and no need to say "thank you" since its not coming directly from someone that lives in their neighborhood. OTOH, I would have a hard time borrowing something like a generator because I would actually feel obligated to replace the generator if it broke while I was using it. so, maybe some of them just didn't want to feel responsible if something happened to it. Actually a lot of what you said makes sense  I guess I was surprised that by day 3 or 4 last year they were fine with accepting help, but not day 2 this year. Maybe there's another rule to add to the rule of 3s i.e. people start to get peed off with their situation after 3 days LOL. I think, and a couple of friends have said this to me, that there's also an element of it being fun to bitch about things for the first couple of days that wears off soon after.
Regardless, I'm very thankful to the very many fine SF resources whose knowledge, and willingness to share it, means that pondering other people's psyches and needing a new bath stopper are my biggest takeaways from this. Cheers 
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i cant give a aar, for sandy, but i did spend a lot of time in katrina, and am a huge news junky. Its pretty much the same always for a huge chunk of the population.
1. nothing bad will happen to me. I do not need to prep. prepping is for paranoid people. 2. if something bad happens, the gov will be there in 20 minutes, with mre's and water. 3. omg, something bads happening. i need to buy a generator, and gas and food ! 4. there is little food, and no generators, and little gas. 5. luckily the gov shows up, and feeds them after a week at most. 6. i got my gov check, and im selling my generator . this will never happen again. that seems to be how it is for almost 50% of the people out there. the worst are the ones who do absolutely nothing to help themselves. not even have 3 days worth of food. then once something happens, they refuse to even leave the house to do anything, but wait on the gov. I can say for a fact, that if we ever do hit another major depression, or a enormous worldwide disaster, ( a pandemic would do it), half would just sit and wait for gov food, shelter, and money. If it didnt arrive, they would eventually try to steal what they need, riot, loot, etc. Let the trucking lines be disrubted, electricity go down, do to lack of ants working, and those grasshoppers will have a huge die off. Hell its not just grasshoppers anymore, half of the ants are just blind, lazy, or in denial. the only thing thats saved them so far, is the massive amounts of aid, rushed to the disasters, from all over the country and world. Anyone with half a brain, should see the news, or experience this one time, and be like, " holy shit ! never again". but they dont. maybe $25-50% at most really prepare for what is common place. Its very sad, and going to really jack this country up one day. 
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Based on news articles I've been reading, I've started putting together a list of improvements for my preps. 1. Second Honda EU2000i generator with the coupling cable (and time to build them a ventilated shed that's secure... been dragging my feet on this). Plus installation of a transfer switch. 2. You can't have too much gasoline stored... unfortunately, there are practical limits to what I can reasonably store, but I can certainly double or triple what I have now (2x20L jerry cans), and keep the cars topped up. 3. Don't forget the oil for the genny... 4. Ready-to-eat food. Most of our food storage takes time to prepare, it's stuff we use and cycle on a regular basis, which is a good thing, but it would be good to have some more ready-to-eat stuff in an actual emergency. This is more of a luxury item than a necessity, the food we have just takes a bit more work. 5. D-cell batteries reportedly selling for $5 a piece... stock up while you can! (of course, I don't have anything that uses D-cell batteries... so I won't be doing this). 6. get some flashlights with long battery life. Most of my flashlights are of the surefire variety that only last a few hours on a set of batteries. 7. maybe a second campstove in case the one we have goes belly up... (2 is one, right?). I have enough propane to run it for weeks, so that's not a worry. 8. Fill up that 55 gallon tank out back with water. I have filtration ready to go if needed, and it rains here constantly, so collecting water should generally be easy, but if there was an emergency in the middle of summer, water might be harder to come by. 9. Get one of those plastic bathtub water storage thingy's (can't remember what they're called). You put it in the tub when there's an impending emergency and fill it with clean water. Nice extra source of clean water if you have some warning. I often wonder if I should buy a pallet of plywood and store it in the shed or something. We don't get hurricanes where I'm at, but I can think of several scenarios where it would be useful to be able to board up the windows and doors. ETA: Read an article today about the stores selling stuff, but you had to have cash and EXACT CHANGE. Note to self to keep some smaller bills handy. |
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9. Get one of those plastic bathtub water storage thingy's (can't remember what they're called). You put it in the tub when there's an impending emergency and fill it with clean water. Nice extra source of clean water if you have some warning. WaterBOBs. Neat idea, though limited since you need to know something's coming and have time to fill them. Like, I don't know, a hurricane a few days out. 
Nothing has been an eye-opener so far, although it's lit a fire under me to move "battery bank" further up on the to-do list and I'm now looking into tri-fuel conversion kits for my Champion generator. |
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Western Orange county NY, near the PA and NJ border.
Got a lot less rain than forecast. However, the wind more than made up for it. Ten or more trees on my property went down, one came close to taking out my car and part of my house. Lots of trees down taking out power lines. Three on my side road alone. Then on the state route into town at least fifteen or twenty trees taking out lines. It's gonna be a while till the juice is back on. We lost power about 4 pm Monday, just as the wind started gusting. Went on generator power after about half an hour, once I was confident it wasnt coming back on. According to O&R it's gonna be next Thursday or Friday until its restored. Took the better half out on Tuesday for breakfast and to survey the neighborhood. Lots of wind damage, trees down and work crews clearing roads. Most businesses were closed, passed three diners to find one open. They didn't have electricity, just using grill to cook. Gennys working good. Ridgid 6800/8500 peak (Yamaha MZ360 engine) I bought it this spring with this sort of scenario in mind. Seems to handle the whole house without too much trouble. Been running about 60 hours as of this post. Burning a lot less gas than I thought it would; rated to consume about .66 gal/hr, in practice it's using around .45/hr Figure I'll change the oil and spark plug tonight after work (after about 72 hours without only a couple short breaks). Saw a LOT of people waiting on line for gas while driving in to work this morning, at 4 AM. By me, the stations were open but taking cash only. Once I was on Rt 17 in NJ, about 4/5ths of the stations were closed. The rest had anywhere between 10 -50 cars lined up outside. Lessons learned/reinforced so far: Keep gas topped off in vehicles and cans full. The cans i threw in the back of the truck just in case I came across working and non-mobbed gas pump are still empty. Text messaging has been the most reliable means of communication during the last four days. My cable dependent phone is out. So's my Internet. The already spotty cell reception is worse as cell towers crap out and come back on line. The only thing that saved us the first two days was the cell booster that I have in the house. Even with that, at times it took half an hour to send texts. I need to get my Ham license and pressure my brother to get his. This would greatly increase our comm ability. I need to increase (and accurately account for) drinking water. I'm on well water, so I didn't give it too much thought. As long as I have some juice, I can pull water. Add to that ten to fifteen gallons of bottled laying about, I thought I was good. Then my buddy's wife called saying they'd lost power and had no water to drink or to flush, clean etc. I have a bunch of 15 gallon barrels and 275 gallon totes for rainwater collection and irrigation. So I threw some of the 15s in my truck to bring over. But when I did, I realized that if I needed more than a few gallons of drinking water and my genny shit itself, I'd be in a bit of trouble. I have some chlorine laying about and a few hiking/camping filters stuffed in my attic but using either method then added more work to an already strained time. It would be doable but it would be nicer to have a hundred or more gallons of clean potable water on standby. I'll add more as my limited attention span and interwebbing capability allow. |
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something i dont understand.
how is it even possible to not have even 3 days of food in a house? even when i didnt have any money, years ago when i was making $10.00 a hour, i still had at least a month supply of food in the house. hell a bag of rice, and some canned chili will last you 2 weeks, for $20.00. 
the ONLY excuse i could see for being that unprepared, is if your house is completly destroyed. such as burns to the ground with all your stuff in it. Still, i have 3 days of food in my truck alone. * sigh*. All you guys in the disaster areas, have my prayers. stay safe ! ! ! ! |
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Locattion: just West of MetLife Stadium near Route 17
Fortunately my town wasn't flooded in and my area only lost power for 4 hours Sunday night into Monday morning. We froze a pack and a half of water to use in case the power went out, and we basically just moved some of them into the fridge portion to help keep things cool. My parents are still without power and so is my sister where they live so they are all staying with us until the power is restored. We have a lot of food and lanterns and batteries that we lent out to my fiance's parents that are without power. We gave them some Coleman gas cans too since they were running low for their Coleman stove. My dad wound up staying at his place and I dropped off a cooler filled with the frozen water bottles. I learned that even though my fiancé and I were prepared, we would still like to stock up on a few more things to be able to help out our families. The frozen water bottles worked great my dad told me. I'm sure there's more that we can do but we're renting and can't really get a generator or just store extra gas to avoid the lines. But I'm always checking out this thread to get more help and information as I can. |
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Quoted: something i dont understand. how is it even possible to not have even 3 days of food in a house? even when i didnt have any money, years ago when i was making $10.00 a hour, i still had at least a month supply of food in the house. hell a bag of rice, and some canned chili will last you 2 weeks, for $20.00. the ONLY excuse i could see for being that unprepared, is if your house is completly destroyed. such as burns to the ground with all your stuff in it. Still, i have 3 days of food in my truck alone. * sigh*. All you guys in the disaster areas, have my prayers. stay safe ! ! ! ! Can you imagine living on canned chili and rice for two weeks? (not saying it's a bad idea for someone who's broke, but...) At my age and health, I can't eat more than a can of that stuff a week without serious GI issues... That's one of the primary reasons I'm still looking for decent ready-to-eat food. I'd probably starve if I had to eat nothing but canned chili for two weeks. Rice, beans, and some spices could go a long ways for me, though, so long as I had some fruit and veggies to supplement. Hint: rinse off the canned beans before you cook and eat them, REALLY cuts down on gas and other GI issues. ETA: Dear lord. It's been 3 days and they're already dumpster-diving. http://www.nbcnewyork.com/video/#!/on-air/as-seen-on/Sandy-Starved-New-Yorkers-Dumpster-Dive/176839571 |
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something i dont understand. how is it even possible to not have even 3 days of food in a house? even when i didnt have any money, years ago when i was making $10.00 a hour, i still had at least a month supply of food in the house. hell a bag of rice, and some canned chili will last you 2 weeks, for $20.00.
the ONLY excuse i could see for being that unprepared, is if your house is completly destroyed. such as burns to the ground with all your stuff in it. Still, i have 3 days of food in my truck alone. * sigh*. All you guys in the disaster areas, have my prayers. stay safe ! ! ! ! Can you imagine living on canned chili and rice for two weeks? (not saying it's a bad idea for someone who's broke, but...) At my age and health, I can't eat more than a can of that stuff a week without serious GI issues... That's one of the primary reasons I'm still looking for decent ready-to-eat food. I'd probably starve if I had to eat nothing but canned chili for two weeks. Rice, beans, and some spices could go a long ways for me, though, so long as I had some fruit and veggies to supplement. Hint: rinse off the canned beans before you cook and eat them, REALLY cuts down on gas and other GI issues. lol. i know .  im just saying, having a few weeks of food, is really pretty cheap. I just dont understand how there were " starving" people reported on the news after only 1-2 days.
dumpster diving? jebus.
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Water is really one of the most important things to have in a disaster (especially when you live in a desert, like I do).
Always remember, you have 40+ gallons already stored in your water heater. I keep several of the 7 gallons water cubes from Wallyworld in the garage just in case, along with the 20 gallon water tank in the RV. I plan on purchasing the waterbobs that fit in the bathtub to store water. 200 gallons would last the wife and I for several more days than what we already have the capability to store. It would probably take about an hour and a half to fill everything we have, but time well spent. Last but not least, a ceramic/charoal water filter and a gallon of bleach in case we need to drive down to the Rio Grande and resupply.(I cringe at the thought of that). I hope everybody makes it through that storm okay. Our prayers are with you. |
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Looking at news reports, it looks like shit hit the fan; fuel shortages, widespread power outages, now food is running out (reports of burglaries and people dumpster diving to get food), people are startic to panic and resort to violence. It looks like power and regular shipments won't be in there for another 10 days according to some. It is getting pretty unly and will get exponentially worse with each passing day.
Looks like fuel is the gold of the day, followed by generators, and food. Guns a fourth. |
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something i dont understand. how is it even possible to not have even 3 days of food in a house? even when i didnt have any money, years ago when i was making $10.00 a hour, i still had at least a month supply of food in the house. hell a bag of rice, and some canned chili will last you 2 weeks, for $20.00.
the ONLY excuse i could see for being that unprepared, is if your house is completly destroyed. such as burns to the ground with all your stuff in it. Still, i have 3 days of food in my truck alone. * sigh*. All you guys in the disaster areas, have my prayers. stay safe ! ! ! ! Can you imagine living on canned chili and rice for two weeks? (not saying it's a bad idea for someone who's broke, but...) At my age and health, I can't eat more than a can of that stuff a week without serious GI issues... That's one of the primary reasons I'm still looking for decent ready-to-eat food. I'd probably starve if I had to eat nothing but canned chili for two weeks. Rice, beans, and some spices could go a long ways for me, though, so long as I had some fruit and veggies to supplement. Hint: rinse off the canned beans before you cook and eat them, REALLY cuts down on gas and other GI issues. lol. i know . im just saying, having a few weeks of food, is really pretty cheap. I just dont understand how there were " starving" people reported on the news after only 1-2 days.
dumpster diving? jebus. A few observations how this is possible: When you were a kid were you ever sent to bed without your supper? I imagine Child Protective Services would be on your doorstep the next day these days. Ever notice how starving people in this country look a lot different than starving people around the world? Lots of people eat out. A lot. They simply don't have anything in their house. A long running joke at our house was that our teenage daughter could starve in a house full of food. If it required more than adding milk or putting in the microwave, she could not fix it. She was not alone among her friends in that regard, apparently there are a lot of people like that. -As an aside, my daughter married a cook. -Not quite living on room service as she dreamed of as a teenager, but pretty close.
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There has to be more lessons learned to share? I'm guessing that the membership with the most first person stories to tell may have bigger issues at hand than jumping on to ARF to give a blow by blow. The AARs will come with time. I've always said that its best to learn from the mistakes of others rather than your own. Read the "tempers flaring"- type threads and plan your own affairs accordingly This. For instance, I first tried to post my AAR early this morning, for whatever reason the site kept dropping out on me. Since it wasn't critical, I waited until I had free time later. |
| a comment on the Water Bobs... if you have only a single bath/shower like I do, you don't have access to a shower drain if the tub is full... what has worked for me for the last 20 or so years is to fill a 33 gal plastic trash can (a hand shower wand helps) and place it in the rear of the tub, and you have water for shower and flush by pouring into the toilet bowl...I place an additional 33 gal can in the lee of my house, and knock out the end plate of the eaves to let it fill with rain water during a tropical storm... the Sawyer .1micron filters can be back flushed...I have the 5 gal kit for mine...we did not lose water pressure during the multi storms of 04/05 but did in the past...an inexpensive propane tailgate type grill in addition to a propane camp stove gives you more flexibility in food preparation in addition to a backup....grilling uses less pots and pans that need to be washed...the use of bamboo skewers is a no cleanup alternative...4 one gallon frozen jugs of water still had ice at day 4 in one of the 5 day coolers I had placed cold cuts in (05)...I think one the fuel efficient inverter generators is looking more appealing...luckily I don't have to worry about the cold weather.... stay safe.. |
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Quoted: Quoted: There has to be more lessons learned to share? I'm guessing that the membership with the most first person stories to tell may have bigger issues at hand than jumping on to ARF to give a blow by blow. The AARs will come with time. I've always said that its best to learn from the mistakes of others rather than your own. Read the "tempers flaring"- type threads and plan your own affairs accordingly Many areas are still out of power/internet.... I'll type mine up and post.... I spent two days on the south shore of LI helping family - some things are getting better, some are getting worse.
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No AAR on Sandy - location is coastal Alabama. 2004 we took a direct hit from Ivan - 2005 almost a direct hit from Katrina. Every year I store 220 gals of gas for the gensets - one 5500 watt and one 15,000 watt. Oil and filters for 3 changes with air filters - my genstes are portable but once in place I remove the wheels - spare room in the house is used for cases of bottled water - canned goods - dog food - batteries - chemlites - propane - and anything else we may need. Gasoline and water get used in the off season then replaced by 01 June, Food rotated as needed, I have 2 window unit AC's - plywood precut for windows - only hard lesson I had to learn was to keep a chainsaw in your house. During Ivan a pecan tree blew over - missed the house but completely blocked the front door. I had to go out the back door and cut it away. If the back door had been blocked also I would have been in a mess.
I agree with another poster above - you can never store enough gasoline or water. Maintain your gensets - 30 minutes each month under a load. |
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Sandy was a non-issue at my house, although I had a chunk of dead branch come down and break one of the skylights in the shed in the back yard. Luckily, we had stapled some heavy plastic sheet underneath the skylight to keep out the cold/hot air. That turned out to be multi-purpose since the wood didn't have enough energy to penetrate both the plexiglass skylight and the heavy sheet. So, nothing broken inside the shed and no water got in the shed.
I noticed that by the time Sunday came around, there were no Disaster French Toast (DST) supplies anywhere. Most places were out of flashlights. Several places still had pallets of bottled water, though. In some of the low-lying areas nearby, there was flooding up to mid-first-floor. Some folks didn't seem to understand that the storm surge was going to be affecting them even if the wind wasn't. It happens even during Nor'easters here. Same spots get flooded over and over again, yet here are these folks on the local news spouting off about how bad it is and how the city/state/fed .gov isn't helping. Well, duh, exactly how do you expect the .gov to suspend the laws of physics temporarily until the storm passes? Also, one lady the interviewed on the local news was pi$$ed that somebody in a big SUV was driving down her street causing a huge wake that made water surge into her house. She was not amused and told the reporter she might have to take a shotgun and go down to the end of the street to make sure nobody made another big wake. This is something to consider when you're driving in an area that the flood waters may be nearly to house floor level. I guess they need to put up signs on the flooded street barricades that say "Be kind, stay behind" or something. The whole gas/power interplay was talked about in a report by a transportation industry trade group earlier this year. (See here) And, sure enough, precisely what they brought up as a major risk area has now come to pass. No power and/or blocked roads = can't re-supply: "Service station fuel supplies will start to run out in just one to two days. According to the Service Station Dealers of America, the nation’s busiest fuel stations sell between 200,000 and 300,000 gallons per month. These stations require multiple deliveries every day to meet this demand. An average service station requires a delivery every 2.4 days. Based on these statistics, the busiest service stations could run out of fuel within hours of a truck stoppage, with the remaining stations following within one to two days. Researchers predict that automobile travel will cease within one week if fuel deliveries are halted." Hmm, this sounds..........familiar. 
And yet, millions of residents of the area, who had days of warning, still were unable or unwilling to prepare sufficiently for a well-predicted outcome. Sad, really. |
| I'm about 5 miles outside NYC on the NJ side of the Hudson River. It was mostly a wind event with very little rain. Was without electricity for about 36 hours before power was restored early Wednesday morning. Many residents have flooded basement due to the rise of the Hackensack River (high tide/full moon). There is no gasoline to be had in the 15+ gas stations within 2 miles of my location. Fuel is being reserved for emergency vehicles and private vehicles of emergency personnel to get to and from work. Go 5 miles east or west of here and it's a different story. Gasoline is the least of their problems and for many there is a dawn to dusk curfew. Having lived in the Carolinas for 15 years and going through a few hurricanes, I knew what to expect. Trying to convince my NJ neighbors that this was going to be something they've never experienced before was another problem. I came out of this better than 95% of NJ residents. Many weren't prepared because they've never been through anything like this. This storm opened the eyes of many people in this area. I've convinced a few of my neighbors to at least purchase a generator and store some gasoline in the event of another storm |
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Drove from job site in Long Island City (Queens) NY to home near Port Jervis NY tonight.
According to guys at work, there was ONE working gas station in Queens. For those who are interested: George Washington Bridge, Rt 4 and Rt 17 in NJ, then I 87 to Rt 6/17 then I 84 in NY. Counted gas stations along the way. 36 (I may have missed a couple that weren't lit) 7 were open and apparently pumping gas. The shortest line was 25 or so cars. It looked like they had just opened, only one side of one pump had a car in front of it. As I passed, cars were diving over to line up. The longest line was (according to my odometer) one and a half MILES long. This is day FOUR of a gas supply disruption. 
Draw your own conclusions. |
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Quoted: Drove from job site in Long Island City (Queens) NY to home near Port Jervis NY tonight. According to guys at work, there was ONE working gas station in Queens. For those who are interested: George Washington Bridge, Rt 4 and Rt 17 in NJ, then I 87 to Rt 6/17 then I 84 in NY. Counted gas stations along the way. 36 (I may have missed a couple that weren't lit) 7 were open and apparently pumping gas. The shortest line was 25 or so cars. It looked like they had just opened, only one side of one pump had a car in front of it. As I passed, cars were diving over to line up. The longest line was (according to my odometer) one and a half MILES long. This is day FOUR of a gas supply disruption. Draw your own conclusions. Any observations on the availability of gas vs diesel?  |
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/mercurialn/8141819177/in/photostream 
This is Beach 139th st, Rockaway (Queens) Belle Harbor neighborhood. My grandparents' house is behind the red brick house in the back there. We live in Boston but have been talking to a friend who acts as caretaker and handyman for the house. Nobody was there during the storm, these photos were taken by someone else. My grandparents passed away some time ago, but our family stays at the house in the summer for vacations, but pretty much everyone else in the neighborhood lives there full time. The waves came all the way up the beach and destroyed the seawall. Luckily (for us) the house on the beach took most of the damage. There was just 6-8 inches of water in the basement of my grandparents' house. I have a feeling that the newer construction techniques are not as strong as the old brick and cement houses in the area. 
A lot of the other houses that were on the beach were totaled. Here's someone's photo of the waves during the storm We're not going to try to get down there until things are a little more stable, with gasoline available to get back out. Here's another photo of the end of Beach 139th st. 
Back here in Boston, we just had power out for a few hours, and some trees down. Most of the big trees came down during Irene I think, so it wasn't much problem with the tail of the storm. One thing I realized is that I should have a backup thermostat for the house; we have steam heat from a gas boiler, and it does not require any power to run, except I got a fancy electronic thermostat with internet access etc, that requires 24VAC, and I did not get around to putting in a parallel circuit to have a simple mechanical thermostat control it in case the electricty goes out. I'd feel stupid if the heat went out during the winter just because the electricity went out. It's always the little things... |
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Quoted:
Drove from job site in Long Island City (Queens) NY to home near Port Jervis NY tonight. According to guys at work, there was ONE working gas station in Queens. For those who are interested: George Washington Bridge, Rt 4 and Rt 17 in NJ, then I 87 to Rt 6/17 then I 84 in NY. Counted gas stations along the way. 36 (I may have missed a couple that weren't lit) 7 were open and apparently pumping gas. The shortest line was 25 or so cars. It looked like they had just opened, only one side of one pump had a car in front of it. As I passed, cars were diving over to line up. The longest line was (according to my odometer) one and a half MILES long. This is day FOUR of a gas supply disruption.
Draw your own conclusions. What site are you on? I'm on a job site in LIC as well. We are right by the water. Had 5' of water sweep through the ground floor. Tools and materials flooded and lost. Portable toilets floated releasing the contents into the water. We buttoned up the deck pretty well, nothing fell off the building. But Perry forms on the seck overturned. We were very lucky nothing fell off. There's no power. Got generators for the job, but gas is short. Labs are not coming in today because they didn't have fuel for the cars. The hoist transformers were flooded, not sure if we can fix them. Anyway, if you want to visit let me know. |
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get your ham ticket - that was the only comms
There's a very active Ham Radio forum in Outdoors. Come check us out! keep gas around - if they had a fixed generator it would have been useless - think about that when siting yours - also, NG is mostly on but they're turning it off in many places so they can restore power - think about having an alternate fuel source Consider having some 5 gallon tanks, as well as one or two 50 gallon tanks. The smaller tanks are far easier to move to your car when SHTF. |
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In my AO I got pretty lucky .We had 2 trees come down on my property.One fell between my mine and my neighbors shed and missed my house by 10 feet.
We never lost power and have been providing charging stations for electronics to friends and family as well as freezer space to those who may lose perishables and a place to shower if they so choose. We have seen an influx of people from NY looking for fuel mostly but some food also,my local gas stations are getting deliveries it seems every day to keep up with demand.Tempers are getting short as people are getting impatient from A) driving great distances to find gas ,then to wait in lines and B) locals who are getting pretty ticked with the influx of people "taking there gas".Local PD has stepped up patrols around gas stations and has even stationed a officer at one of the stations by me. I caught 2 guys last night(from NY) trying to siphon gas from my wifes van in our driveway. Luckily the wife and I filled up before the storm and have a reserve of gas that should last us for a week or so for our vehicles. I have found my neighbors on my street to be damn near useless,I spent the last 2 days clearing our road(there is only one way in or out of our development) of debris even though there are 4 other able bodied males on the street.They seem quite content to sit and watch me do it ,then give a helping hand. Our friends in town have been fantastic we have helped each other out with cutting and clearing trees fallen trees and have really bonded frm all of this. In short what I have learned from all this so far is there are 4 type of people: A).The sheep who will do nothing untl it is done for them or they are told by someone in authority to do it(wife's aunt and uncle). B).The angry man/woman who is mad that they lost power or were somehow inconvienced by this storm and are willing at minimum to intimidate to get what they want at maximum use violence. C). The person looking to take advantage of the situation whether it be stealing gas or food or gouging prices. D).The person who will work to fix what is broken to improve there situation anyway possible and provide assistance when needed. (example) I saw a woman who was raking leaves and picking up sticks in her front yard.She had no power and a giant Maple tree had fallen into her home and crashed into her attic causing what looked like tens of thousands of damage to her home.She refused to sit idly by, she realised life goes on and was doing the best she can to clean up and return her life to normalcy. |
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Maybe the people we see on TV complaining about having nothing don't necessarily represent the majority. Who knows, maybe hundreds of people learned their lesson from previous events and are comfortably stocked up with food, etc. We just aren't going to see those people on TV going crazy in the long lines. |
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Also, one lady the interviewed on the local news was pi$$ed that somebody in a big SUV was driving down her street causing a huge wake that made water surge into her house. She was not amused and told the reporter she might have to take a shotgun and go down to the end of the street to make sure nobody made another big wake. This is something to consider when you're driving in an area that the flood waters may be nearly to house floor level. I guess they need to put up signs on the flooded street barricades that say "Be kind, stay behind" or something. If your house is flooded, I'd view the wake of a passing vehicle to be the least of your worries. If the wake is causing a waterline to surge and flow into an otherwise unflooded house, maybe she can put up some kind of a breakwater around her entrance. Sandbags, anything |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Drove from job site in Long Island City (Queens) NY to home near Port Jervis NY tonight. According to guys at work, there was ONE working gas station in Queens. For those who are interested: George Washington Bridge, Rt 4 and Rt 17 in NJ, then I 87 to Rt 6/17 then I 84 in NY. Counted gas stations along the way. 36 (I may have missed a couple that weren't lit) 7 were open and apparently pumping gas. The shortest line was 25 or so cars. It looked like they had just opened, only one side of one pump had a car in front of it. As I passed, cars were diving over to line up. The longest line was (according to my odometer) one and a half MILES long. This is day FOUR of a gas supply disruption.
Draw your own conclusions. Any observations on the availability of gas vs diesel?
Diesel much more readily available. Placeholder for further comments ETA: I saw three stations that only had diesel pumps going. At the stations that had both (and that I could examine closely enough while driving past), there wasn't the same line for diesel, just the usual one or two vehicles lined up. I definitely believe that "going diesel" would be superior to gassing IF it were economically feasable to switch over. I'd love to get a diesel truck , car, genny, lawn mower, weed wacker, power washer, chainsaws, etc BUT until I completed the switch over from gas, I would have to run two "fuel supply chains". Oh and I've never seen a diesel weed wacker. Although if I googled it, I'm sure there's someone out there who's done it. One thing I WILL do after all this gas lines silliness is take a serious look into a propane or trifuel kit for the genny. |
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Here’s my Sandy AAR. But first the corny opener, I have just redeployed home, so now that I no longer have to worry about (the) ‘Stan, I find it was Sandy I have to worry about.
Some things I was working on before leaving: I had a transfer switch installed, I buried a 1500 lb propane tank and had it filled (I have a gas range, fireplace and my grill is hooked up to the tank as well), I bought from Gov Liq two MEP—002A diesel gensets, I have a Honda 2000i that I run under load monthly. So, I get home Thursday, and I haven’t seen the sun shine since. I really didn’t take time to go through the house and check on everything. I was still readjusting to life in the States. The rain and wind started Monday—kids home early from school. We made a trip to Sam’s club since Mrs. RN hadn’t been there while I was away. This really wasn’t mandatory; it was just the timing that put us going there as the storm approached. Sometime around 2000 hrs Monday the power goes out. Never flickered and never came back on. Well, the kids could’ve cared less. Everyone already has flashlights, and I’d just bought my wife a streamlight LED light which got a good workout. The kids were briefed regarding the suspension of toilet flushing until morning, and they played games until they went to bed—no whining from any of them. I had a larger than normal pressure tank installed with the well, so I have decent amount of latent pressure in my water lines when the pump is not on. I have a single mantle Coleman lantern that I got out and fired up it puts out, as a guess, between 100 and 200 watts of light. Oh, for heat, I have a wood stove in the basement that was able to heat the house given the outside temps of 40-50. I grabbed a headlight and my nook and read for a while. The Mrs did the same. (It seems everyone had a reader, iPad, or tablet in the ‘Stan—I recommend the nook) My main worry was the sump pump. My house has a full basement dug into the heaviest clay you can find—water does not drain into the soil! Around 2300 I decided to run the sump pump before going to bed. Minor issue #1, not having run for 4 months, the genny ran a little rough for a few minutes before it settled into its smooth quiet normal state. Given the rate of water rise since the power went out I set my alarm for two hours and was going to wake up and check on things and decide how frequently to pump the water from there. That was almost a MAJOR mistake! When I woke up and checked the basement I had water coming out of the sump pump tube, and the drain by the water heater. It was leaking in around the edges of the wall too. I started to curse myself, fired up the genset, and started sweeping water. It took over an hour for the sump pump to get the water down to where the float would cycle on and off. I had most of the water swept into the drains and with the wood stove going it seemed to be drying quicker than I anticipated by the time I felt comfortable that the pump was back to maintaining the water level in the sump pump tube. At this point I left the genset run and I slept (very intermittently) on the couch by the basement door where I could at once listen to the generator run and the sump pump cycle too. Later I had to laugh, after a little over a week in the States, I found myself listening to a generator run all night long—just like I was back at FOB Shank! I guess you had to be there.
Well, by morning there was no sign of water being in the basement! I shut the genny down, refueled it, and then decided to hook up my power cable from the transfer switch to the genset. I hadn’t done this before leaving, nor did I really think I’d need it 3 days after coming home. Over night I used a drag cord to power just the sump pump. Issue #2 as most of you see is that my Honda only runs 120v or one leg of my transfer switch. I had already labeled the two legs in my panel box and I knew which leg ran which circuits. After a few hours of using each half of the panel box (I had to shut things down and move the hot lead in the transfer switch) I figured out which circuits I could move (inside the panel box) so that I could run most everything I wanted from one leg. I could have the kitchen at ~90% (lights, range-I need 120v for the oven, TV & satellite, fridge, and a few outlets) and still have the sump pump running. The only thing I didn’t have was running water. I was feeling pretty good about most everything except the water situation (more so for the animals in the barn than us) when the power came on after being out for 14 hours (the longest it’s been out in the 19 years I’ve been living in this valley) Now, my parents live very close (1/2 mile) but they’re on another main line from the electric co-op, and they didn’t lose power. I knew I could get water if/when needed. Also, they have a genset that will run my well pump if needed, so I knew that was an option I had available too. All-in-all it was a good learning experience. Now that I’m home I need to get one of those gensets up and running, then I’ll have power to run more than I need, but most importantly I can run the well. My main worry is the sump pump (yep I have a spare in the basement). It requires almost 3 kilowatt hours in a 24hr period making a solar-battery backup a VERY expensive option. I have a plan for adding solar, but mainly to run my freezers (about 1 kilowatt hour a day) and maybe the range since it’s a miser on power, then I’ll expand from there. The Honda will run the sump without a moments hesitation, it’s just that when it’s needed, it almost has to be run continuously. I keep more gas than I care to mention on hand and I maybe used 2 gallons this time. Even assuming I get the MEP-002 running I’d like to have a third option for keeping the sump pump operating. Other comments: In 2-3 days NO ONE is starving. I just came from a country where obesity doesn’t exist. I’ve seen hungry—nobody here knows what hungry is. I also have a camper, so as a last resort I could move in there and live for a period of time too. Or, just use parts of it as needed i.e. the shower and hot water. Oh yeah, don’t ask me how much water was in the scepter water cans in the basement—oops!
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Quoted:
Here’s my Sandy AAR. But first the corny opener, I have just redeployed home, so now that I no longer have to worry about (the) ‘Stan, I find it was Sandy I have to worry about. Some things I was working on before leaving: I had a transfer switch installed, I buried a 1500 lb propane tank and had it filled (I have a gas range, fireplace and my grill is hooked up to the tank as well), I bought from Gov Liq two MEP—002A diesel gensets, I have a Honda 2000i that I run under load monthly. So, I get home Thursday, and I haven’t seen the sun shine since. I really didn’t take time to go through the house and check on everything. I was still readjusting to life in the States. The rain and wind started Monday—kids home early from school. We made a trip to Sam’s club since Mrs. RN hadn’t been there while I was away. This really wasn’t mandatory; it was just the timing that put us going there as the storm approached. Sometime around 2000 hrs Monday the power goes out. Never flickered and never came back on. Well, the kids could’ve cared less. Everyone already has flashlights, and I’d just bought my wife a streamlight LED light which got a good workout. The kids were briefed regarding the suspension of toilet flushing until morning, and they played games until they went to bed—no whining from any of them. I had a larger than normal pressure tank installed with the well, so I have decent amount of latent pressure in my water lines when the pump is not on. I have a single mantle Coleman lantern that I got out and fired up it puts out, as a guess, between 100 and 200 watts of light. Oh, for heat, I have a wood stove in the basement that was able to heat the house given the outside temps of 40-50. I grabbed a headlight and my nook and read for a while. The Mrs did the same. (It seems everyone had a reader, iPad, or tablet in the ‘Stan—I recommend the nook) My main worry was the sump pump. My house has a full basement dug into the heaviest clay you can find—water does not drain into the soil! Around 2300 I decided to run the sump pump before going to bed. Minor issue #1, not having run for 4 months, the genny ran a little rough for a few minutes before it settled into its smooth quiet normal state. Given the rate of water rise since the power went out I set my alarm for two hours and was going to wake up and check on things and decide how frequently to pump the water from there. That was almost a MAJOR mistake! When I woke up and checked the basement I had water coming out of the sump pump tube, and the drain by the water heater. It was leaking in around the edges of the wall too. I started to curse myself, fired up the genset, and started sweeping water. It took over an hour for the sump pump to get the water down to where the float would cycle on and off. I had most of the water swept into the drains and with the wood stove going it seemed to be drying quicker than I anticipated by the time I felt comfortable that the pump was back to maintaining the water level in the sump pump tube. At this point I left the genset run and I slept (very intermittently) on the couch by the basement door where I could at once listen to the generator run and the sump pump cycle too. Later I had to laugh, after a little over a week in the States, I found myself listening to a generator run all night long—just like I was back at FOB Shank! I guess you had to be there.
Well, by morning there was no sign of water being in the basement! I shut the genny down, refueled it, and then decided to hook up my power cable from the transfer switch to the genset. I hadn’t done this before leaving, nor did I really think I’d need it 3 days after coming home. Over night I used a drag cord to power just the sump pump. Issue #2 as most of you see is that my Honda only runs 120v or one leg of my transfer switch. I had already labeled the two legs in my panel box and I knew which leg ran which circuits. After a few hours of using each half of the panel box (I had to shut things down and move the hot lead in the transfer switch) I figured out which circuits I could move (inside the panel box) so that I could run most everything I wanted from one leg. I could have the kitchen at ~90% (lights, range-I need 120v for the oven, TV & satellite, fridge, and a few outlets) and still have the sump pump running. The only thing I didn’t have was running water. I was feeling pretty good about most everything except the water situation (more so for the animals in the barn than us) when the power came on after being out for 14 hours (the longest it’s been out in the 19 years I’ve been living in this valley) Now, my parents live very close (1/2 mile) but they’re on another main line from the electric co-op, and they didn’t lose power. I knew I could get water if/when needed. Also, they have a genset that will run my well pump if needed, so I knew that was an option I had available too. All-in-all it was a good learning experience. Now that I’m home I need to get one of those gensets up and running, then I’ll have power to run more than I need, but most importantly I can run the well. My main worry is the sump pump (yep I have a spare in the basement). It requires almost 3 kilowatt hours in a 24hr period making a solar-battery backup a VERY expensive option. I have a plan for adding solar, but mainly to run my freezers (about 1 kilowatt hour a day) and maybe the range since it’s a miser on power, then I’ll expand from there. The Honda will run the sump without a moments hesitation, it’s just that when it’s needed, it almost has to be run continuously. I keep more gas than I care to mention on hand and I maybe used 2 gallons this time. Even assuming I get the MEP-002 running I’d like to have a third option for keeping the sump pump operating. Other comments: In 2-3 days NO ONE is starving. I just came from a country where obesity doesn’t exist. I’ve seen hungry—nobody here knows what hungry is. I also have a camper, so as a last resort I could move in there and live for a period of time too. Or, just use parts of it as needed i.e. the shower and hot water. Oh yeah, don’t ask me how much water was in the scepter water cans in the basement—oops!
[/ quote] Glad that you are safe and that you are back home! |
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I see generators being mentioned everywhere.
A generator seems like an inefficent PITA way to have power. Unless you really need power because of your medical condition, need to use power tools or you have a ton of frozen food, I dont really get the whole generator thing. Do you really need to have light at the flick of a switch? I can go without electricity just fine, especially if I have a car to charge my phone and radio. I kind of like it when the power goes out
I would look into a simple solar setup before I ever went with a generator. Now back to the AAR's! |
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I see generators being mentioned everywhere. A generator seems like an inefficent PITA way to have power. Unless you really need power because of your medical condition, need to use power tools or you have a ton of frozen food, I dont really get the whole generator thing. Do you really need to have light at the flick of a switch? I can go without electricity just fine, especially if I have a car to charge my phone and radio. I kind of like it when the power goes out
I would look into a simple solar setup before I ever went with a generator. Now back to the AAR's! I enjoy venison year round. This requires a freezer. I have well water. Mrs. g-rem is MUCH more personable when she has the creature comforts that uninterrupted electrical power afford. Any one of the above are reason enough to justify a genny for me. YMMV |
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I was in Middletown, NY, which is about 75 miles NW of Manhattan.
Biggest problems we had were loss of power, roof damage, and downed trees. Fortunately, the rain seems to have mostly stayed south, or the floodwaters would have kept us trapped until who knows when. It's happened before. Lessons learned: 1) Have a generator. Have TWO generators... 2) Gas. Lots of it. BEFORE the storm hits. 3) Food and water. Lots of it. BEFORE the storm hits. 4) Chainsaw. I need to look into having one, as one would have been plenty helpful before the neighbor brought his over. 5) Lots of stuff on the TiVo or on DVD.
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Drove from job site in Long Island City (Queens) NY to home near Port Jervis NY tonight. According to guys at work, there was ONE working gas station in Queens. For those who are interested: George Washington Bridge, Rt 4 and Rt 17 in NJ, then I 87 to Rt 6/17 then I 84 in NY. Counted gas stations along the way. 36 (I may have missed a couple that weren't lit) 7 were open and apparently pumping gas. The shortest line was 25 or so cars. It looked like they had just opened, only one side of one pump had a car in front of it. As I passed, cars were diving over to line up. The longest line was (according to my odometer) one and a half MILES long. This is day FOUR of a gas supply disruption.
Draw your own conclusions. What site are you on? I'm on a job site in LIC as well. We are right by the water. Had 5' of water sweep through the ground floor. Tools and materials flooded and lost. Portable toilets floated releasing the contents into the water. We buttoned up the deck pretty well, nothing fell off the building. But Perry forms on the seck overturned. We were very lucky nothing fell off. There's no power. Got generators for the job, but gas is short. Labs are not coming in today because they didn't have fuel for the cars. The hoist transformers were flooded, not sure if we can fix them. Anyway, if you want to visit let me know. PM sent |
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Here’s my Sandy AAR. But first the corny opener, I have just redeployed home, so now that I no longer have to worry about (the) ‘Stan, I find it was Sandy I have to worry about. Some things I was working on before leaving: I had a transfer switch installed, I buried a 1500 lb propane tank and had it filled (I have a gas range, fireplace and my grill is hooked up to the tank as well), I bought from Gov Liq two MEP—002A diesel gensets, I have a Honda 2000i that I run under load monthly. So, I get home Thursday, and I haven’t seen the sun shine since. I really didn’t take time to go through the house and check on everything. I was still readjusting to life in the States. The rain and wind started Monday—kids home early from school. We made a trip to Sam’s club since Mrs. RN hadn’t been there while I was away. This really wasn’t mandatory; it was just the timing that put us going there as the storm approached. Sometime around 2000 hrs Monday the power goes out. Never flickered and never came back on. Well, the kids could’ve cared less. Everyone already has flashlights, and I’d just bought my wife a streamlight LED light which got a good workout. The kids were briefed regarding the suspension of toilet flushing until morning, and they played games until they went to bed—no whining from any of them. I had a larger than normal pressure tank installed with the well, so I have decent amount of latent pressure in my water lines when the pump is not on. I have a single mantle Coleman lantern that I got out and fired up it puts out, as a guess, between 100 and 200 watts of light. Oh, for heat, I have a wood stove in the basement that was able to heat the house given the outside temps of 40-50. I grabbed a headlight and my nook and read for a while. The Mrs did the same. (It seems everyone had a reader, iPad, or tablet in the ‘Stan—I recommend the nook) My main worry was the sump pump. My house has a full basement dug into the heaviest clay you can find—water does not drain into the soil! Around 2300 I decided to run the sump pump before going to bed. Minor issue #1, not having run for 4 months, the genny ran a little rough for a few minutes before it settled into its smooth quiet normal state. Given the rate of water rise since the power went out I set my alarm for two hours and was going to wake up and check on things and decide how frequently to pump the water from there. That was almost a MAJOR mistake! When I woke up and checked the basement I had water coming out of the sump pump tube, and the drain by the water heater. It was leaking in around the edges of the wall too. I started to curse myself, fired up the genset, and started sweeping water. It took over an hour for the sump pump to get the water down to where the float would cycle on and off. I had most of the water swept into the drains and with the wood stove going it seemed to be drying quicker than I anticipated by the time I felt comfortable that the pump was back to maintaining the water level in the sump pump tube. At this point I left the genset run and I slept (very intermittently) on the couch by the basement door where I could at once listen to the generator run and the sump pump cycle too. Later I had to laugh, after a little over a week in the States, I found myself listening to a generator run all night long—just like I was back at FOB Shank! I guess you had to be there.
Well, by morning there was no sign of water being in the basement! I shut the genny down, refueled it, and then decided to hook up my power cable from the transfer switch to the genset. I hadn’t done this before leaving, nor did I really think I’d need it 3 days after coming home. Over night I used a drag cord to power just the sump pump. Issue #2 as most of you see is that my Honda only runs 120v or one leg of my transfer switch. I had already labeled the two legs in my panel box and I knew which leg ran which circuits. After a few hours of using each half of the panel box (I had to shut things down and move the hot lead in the transfer switch) I figured out which circuits I could move (inside the panel box) so that I could run most everything I wanted from one leg. I could have the kitchen at ~90% (lights, range-I need 120v for the oven, TV & satellite, fridge, and a few outlets) and still have the sump pump running. The only thing I didn’t have was running water. I was feeling pretty good about most everything except the water situation (more so for the animals in the barn than us) when the power came on after being out for 14 hours (the longest it’s been out in the 19 years I’ve been living in this valley) Now, my parents live very close (1/2 mile) but they’re on another main line from the electric co-op, and they didn’t lose power. I knew I could get water if/when needed. Also, they have a genset that will run my well pump if needed, so I knew that was an option I had available too. All-in-all it was a good learning experience. Now that I’m home I need to get one of those gensets up and running, then I’ll have power to run more than I need, but most importantly I can run the well. My main worry is the sump pump (yep I have a spare in the basement). It requires almost 3 kilowatt hours in a 24hr period making a solar-battery backup a VERY expensive option. I have a plan for adding solar, but mainly to run my freezers (about 1 kilowatt hour a day) and maybe the range since it’s a miser on power, then I’ll expand from there. The Honda will run the sump without a moments hesitation, it’s just that when it’s needed, it almost has to be run continuously. I keep more gas than I care to mention on hand and I maybe used 2 gallons this time. Even assuming I get the MEP-002 running I’d like to have a third option for keeping the sump pump operating. Other comments: In 2-3 days NO ONE is starving. I just came from a country where obesity doesn’t exist. I’ve seen hungry—nobody here knows what hungry is. I also have a camper, so as a last resort I could move in there and live for a period of time too. Or, just use parts of it as needed i.e. the shower and hot water. Oh yeah, don’t ask me how much water was in the scepter water cans in the basement—oops!
You did GREAT! Welcome back! |
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A generator seems like an inefficent PITA way to have power. Unless you really need power because of your medical condition, need to use power tools or you have a ton of frozen food, I dont really get the whole generator thing. Do you really need to have light at the flick of a switch? - Keeps the food in the fridge and freezer from spoiling. - Runs the furnace during the winter, so you don't freeze to death. - Runs one or two window units during the summer, so 95% humidity in 100 degree weather is tolerable. - Keeps the well pump running, so you have water for drinking, cooking, bathing, flushing toilets and washing clothes. - Recharges batteries, so you have a functional cell phone, battery-powered lights, ham/CB/FRS/GMRS comms, use of a laptop computer, etc. - Runs the sump pumps, so you don't have to wade through water in the basement. - Operates any power tools necessary for home repairs. - Allows hot meals and beverages to be prepared in minutes. Well worth the cost. |
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I see generators being mentioned everywhere. A generator seems like an inefficent PITA way to have power. Unless you really need power because of your medical condition, need to use power tools or you have a ton of frozen food, I dont really get the whole generator thing. Do you really need to have light at the flick of a switch? I can go without electricity just fine, especially if I have a car to charge my phone and radio. I kind of like it when the power goes out
I would look into a simple solar setup before I ever went with a generator. Now back to the AAR's! Sun hasn't been shining much where solar or a genny is needed the past few days in new yuk. Duh! |
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In short what I have learned from all this so far is there are 4 type of people: A).The sheep who will do nothing untl it is done for them or they are told by someone in authority to do it(wife's aunt and uncle). B).The angry man/woman who is mad that they lost power or were somehow inconvienced by this storm and are willing at minimum to intimidate to get what they want at maximum use violence. C). The person looking to take advantage of the situation whether it be stealing gas or food or gouging prices. D).The person who will work to fix what is broken to improve there situation anyway possible and provide assistance when needed. (example) I saw a woman who was raking leaves and picking up sticks in her front yard.She had no power and a giant Maple tree had fallen into her home and crashed into her attic causing what looked like tens of thousands of damage to her home.She refused to sit idly by, she realised life goes on and was doing the best she can to clean up and return her life to normalcy. Please explain. |
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As a general observation (which I saw acted out in a mild way in my family), the more you peel away the comforts of daily living, the more tempers shorten and general tension rises. No heat plus no water plus no lights plus no hot food plus no internet makes people crabby....or worse.
Here are my observations: 1) Heat is a big deal. Being cold sucks. (This was not an issue for us.) 2) LED flashlights/lanterns/headlamps are extremely useful but oil lamps and Aladdins still can play a role. The oil lamps were nice for low level lighting when we weren't running the generator. Candles? No thanks. Good headlamps? Very useful. 3) If a generator plays an important part of your preparations, having two generators is not frivolous. For us, the generator runs the well pump and protects the freezers. As an extra bonus it gives us functional toilets and electric lights which are nice luxuries. 4) A Coleman camp stove is an easy back-up if no power means you lose primary cooking methods. "I'll cook on the outside grill" is not an option in 60 MPH winds with driving rain. 5) Good clothing is key, particularly if you have to be outside in inclement weather. Quality Gore-Tex is worth more than gold, IMO. 6) I'm putting it on my list to have an annual chat with my insurance guy to make sure that what I think I have insured matches my policies. Our greenhouse was totalled and it turns out it isn't covered by our exorbitantly expensive "farm policy." 
7) It pays to remember that not everyone enjoys "roughing it." Everything you do before SHTF to make a seemless transition to after SHTF will pay big divends in your group's morale. ETA: One more thing......don't forget the "comfort food." Dumb little snacks can help morale a lot. You may thrive on MREs and pemmican but your SO and kids probably don't.
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A generator seems like an inefficent PITA way to have power. Unless you really need power because of your medical condition, need to use power tools or you have a ton of frozen food, I dont really get the whole generator thing. Do you really need to have light at the flick of a switch? - Keeps the food in the fridge and freezer from spoiling. - Runs the furnace during the winter, so you don't freeze to death. - Runs one or two window units during the summer, so 95% humidity in 100 degree weather is tolerable. - Keeps the well pump running, so you have water for drinking, cooking, bathing, flushing toilets and washing clothes. - Recharges batteries, so you have a functional cell phone, battery-powered lights, ham/CB/FRS/GMRS comms, use of a laptop computer, etc. - Runs the sump pumps, so you don't have to wade through water in the basement. - Operates any power tools necessary for home repairs. - Allows hot meals and beverages to be prepared in minutes. Well worth the cost. I understand if you need it, well water, power tools, heat, etc. I grew up without or only limited power for over a year and we often had landslides that would take out power for weeks. So its no biggy for me I guess. |
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Here’s my Sandy AAR. But first the corny opener, I have just redeployed home, so now that I no longer have to worry about (the) ‘Stan, I find it was Sandy I have to worry about. All else aside, welcome home Quoted:
I see generators being mentioned everywhere. A generator seems like an inefficent PITA way to have power. Unless you really need power because of your medical condition, need to use power tools or you have a ton of frozen food, I dont really get the whole generator thing. Do you really need to have light at the flick of a switch? I can go without electricity just fine, especially if I have a car to charge my phone and radio. I kind of like it when the power goes out
I would look into a simple solar setup before I ever went with a generator. Now back to the AAR's! Cheaper to go with a genset in the short term For long term off grid I'd look into solar |