Posted: 10/7/2012 12:10:17 PM EDT
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I just watched about 50 guys compete in a survival exercise which mimics leaving on foot with only your BOB on your back. About 20% had the combination pack and rifle bag that would accommodate an M-4. Listening to banter back and forth on the topic, it was stated that this was a nondescript way to move, no rifle or pistol in view. The issue I have from the nondescript end is that it doesn't look link the tennis racket bag we used years ago or a civilian duffel bag. For one, they are in MultiCam or some other military color, which just screams "I have some good shit in here". Most didn't even cover the entire weapon. The response to that issue was most civilians wouldn't know what the stock of an M4 looks like anyway.
The next issue was around getting the weapon in service. What I saw was minutes of un-slinging, unsnapping, pulling and loading, hardly a tactical scenario. Getting the pistol out took just as long, much less finding the extra magazine. All this while someone is trying to kill you. Is this a new trend, or just equipment for a competition? Me, I want to look like a Porky Pine, bristling with fire power and ready to do the deed. |
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For my bug out bag I have a nondescript,non Camo ,non black colored backpack that can hold my M4 SBR . If I need to be the gray man I can put the rifle in the pack. If I need to be the porcupine I can carry the rile at the ready position.
But I would always have a side arm ,whether on my belt or in a pocket. For me it is all about giving myself options. |
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I think one issue is that there are many different lines of thought on bugging out.
There's the hard-core TEOTWAWKI kind of bugout where you're trying to get from point A to point B in a post-apocalyptic world, ala Book of Eli & The Road. Nothing wrong with this sort of prepping, but a scenario like this, though not entirely impossible, is viewed as masterbatory fantasy by many. Then there's the more realistic bugout where you're just trying to get you & yours out of dodge after whatever sort of disaster may have just happened (Katrina, Rita, etc). I don't think hoofing it, bristling like a tactical porcupine armed to the teeth is likely to get you too terribly far in that sort of situation. In either scenario, though, I feel one should put thought into quick access to some line of defense without having to take a five minute time out. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Dammit I can't believe I forgot about the BOD. 
Are you talking about the Eberlestock packs? I never understood the fascination with those. If you had ever carried an Eberlestock loaded up for a long distance you would. I used one on foot my last deployment and it was tits. I just won the ruck-run portion of the EOD team of the year competition with an eberlestock operator and 60+ pounds plus weapon. As far as carrying tactical bags in SHTF, I have both openly tactical equipment and commercial stuff. I will make the call on what to use based on situation, although in my experience bags built for military and tactical use are generally far more durable and capable by nature. I honestly don't have a deep seeded aversion to using military gear, and plan on using it unless the situation clearly dictates against it. 
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Dammit I can't believe I forgot about the BOD.
Are you talking about the Eberlestock packs? I never understood the fascination with those. If you had ever carried an Eberlestock loaded up for a long distance you would. I used one on foot my last deployment and it was tits. I just won the ruck-run portion of the EOD team of the year competition with an eberlestock operator and 60+ pounds plus weapon. As far as carrying tactical bags in SHTF, I have both openly tactical equipment and commercial stuff. I will make the call on what to use based on situation, although in my experience bags built for military and tactical use are generally far more durable and capable by nature. I honestly don't have a deep seeded aversion to using military gear, and plan on using it unless the situation clearly dictates against it. http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m303/daemon734/IMG_0407.jpg You don't find it cumbersome? Granted I've never humped one, but after playing with one it seemed like it would be a bother to use it. |
| I have two of the Ebelestock packs, my old Gunslinger and my new G4 Operator. I once carried a FAL when camping and hiking with it, no one was the wiser. I did not get the packs that are camo for the simple reason that I dont want to look like im prepared or armed until I need someone to know it. the Gunslinger is grey and black and the Operator is brown. I love them, and getting the rifle out does not take long. I use the Gunslinger as my GF's BOB and the Operator as my BOB. |
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Dammit I can't believe I forgot about the BOD.
Are you talking about the Eberlestock packs? I never understood the fascination with those. If you had ever carried an Eberlestock loaded up for a long distance you would. I used one on foot my last deployment and it was tits. I just won the ruck-run portion of the EOD team of the year competition with an eberlestock operator and 60+ pounds plus weapon. As far as carrying tactical bags in SHTF, I have both openly tactical equipment and commercial stuff. I will make the call on what to use based on situation, although in my experience bags built for military and tactical use are generally far more durable and capable by nature. I honestly don't have a deep seeded aversion to using military gear, and plan on using it unless the situation clearly dictates against it. http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m303/daemon734/IMG_0407.jpg You don't find it cumbersome? Granted I've never humped one, but after playing with one it seemed like it would be a bother to use it. Cumbersome? Anything with more than 50lbs in it is going to be cumbersome. The eberlestock is at least comfortable and holds quite a bit. It's only flaw is its a little heavy at 7 lbs, but not enough to make me think twice. It's weight contributes to the fact that its virtually indestructible. |
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I have the Eberlestock F4 Terminator and if you adjust the scabbard in the back to fit the weapon, the rifle draws over the shoulder with the pack still on rather quickly. Also the scabbard comes with a top cover. The people you saw may not have spent much time working with their gear and adjusting it. Also I dont see why you cant carry your pistol like you always do. Its not normally hard to draw. At the very least you can put it in a pouch or on a holster on the bags hip belt and quickly draw from there.
ETA- Also if you really want to be inconspicuous you could stick a fishing pole in the scabbard as well so thats all anyone will see sticking out of it. |
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Quoted: I think one issue is that there are many different lines of thought on bugging out. There's the hard-core TEOTWAWKI kind of bugout where you're trying to get from point A to point B in a post-apocalyptic world, ala Book of Eli & The Road. Nothing wrong with this sort of prepping, but a scenario like this, though not entirely impossible, is viewed as masterbatory fantasy by many. Then there's the more realistic bugout where you're just trying to get you & yours out of dodge after whatever sort of disaster may have just happened (Katrina, Rita, etc). I don't think hoofing it, bristling like a tactical porcupine armed to the teeth is likely to get you too terribly far in that sort of situation. In either scenario, though, I feel one should put thought into quick access to some line of defense without having to take a five minute time out. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile all on foot right...if not then why the pack when a duffle bag of sorts will work.  and i agree with what you said.. a quick means to defense or else your screwed. imho i think many get the pack for the thought of having/carrying teh rifle with them vs open carry of it when outdoors/coolness. sans military use etc. i dont see the big whoop over them either like many do. ive finger banged a few and didnt care much for the lay out etc. ymmv |
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I just watched about 50 guys compete in a survival exercise which mimics leaving on foot with only your BOB on your back. About 20% had the combination pack and rifle bag that would accommodate an M-4. Listening to banter back and forth on the topic, it was stated that this was a nondescript way to move, no rifle or pistol in view. The issue I have from the nondescript end is that it doesn't look link the tennis racket bag we used years ago or a civilian duffel bag. For one, they are in MultiCam or some other military color, which just screams "I have some good shit in here". Most didn't even cover the entire weapon. The response to that issue was most civilians wouldn't know what the stock of an M4 looks like anyway. The next issue was around getting the weapon in service. What I saw was minutes of un-slinging, unsnapping, pulling and loading, hardly a tactical scenario. Getting the pistol out took just as long, much less finding the extra magazine. All this while someone is trying to kill you. Is this a new trend, or just equipment for a competition? Me, I want to look like a Porky Pine, bristling with fire power and ready to do the deed. I believe its better to look as "normal" as possible, while still capable of defending yourself. If you ask me, I'd rather be able to shoot a close range threat in 1 second while looking like average joe than have a rifle burried in a backpack. For most evacuation scenarios a rifle across your chest would attract the wrong kind of attention. In some cases you may want to look strong, especially if you have a group that you can trust with guns too, people you have trained with. 5 or 6 guys with rifles ready would send the trobuelmaker or dedicated bad guy off, but then you may attract the attention of LE or military in the area and get stripped of your weapons while Joe Sixpack walks by you looking like a refugge but with boy armor under his jacket, a concealed pistol and half a dozen mags ready, and maybe a folded carbine hidden in that pack too. To a point I think its both not understanding how things are most liekly to go down and on the other hand wanting to look "tactical" as in a fashion statement of some sort. FerFAL |
| I have no problem with the nondescript rifle, if it really is and that's the point of the road march, but having a side arm stashed so deep in your pack it takes minutes to recover negates its value for defensive purposes. As far as the quality of the packs, they are great. But every piece of equipment has its purposes, Just my thought |
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I just watched about 50 guys compete... There are two other solutions that I have considered. One is a concept I like to refer to as the Line Man. It is a utility worker or CERT vest, over body armor, and green hard hat with a kevlar clipboard. In a grid down scenario, few want to hurt the utility guy or shoot at a Federal emergency worker. The other concept I think about is similiar to TJ's porcupine, which I will refer to as the Armadillo with the Antenna. It includes a Kevlar helmet with NVG mount, external plate carrier, radio with a big ass antenna, and an M4 with ACOG, all clearly visible. Few would want to take a shot at what looks to be military recon. I believe both of these bug-out concepts provide certain advantages depending on the scenario. they dont see me but I can see they have some cool shit... scope on target... |
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I have no problem with the nondescript rifle, if it really is and that's the point of the road march, but having a side arm stashed so deep in your pack it takes minutes to recover negates its value for defensive purposes. As far as the quality of the packs, they are great. But every piece of equipment has its purposes, Just my thought I'm not sure why anyone would ever have their sidearm stashed in a pack. It defies logic. That said, if there's even the realistic thought of armed conflict myself and everyone with me would be weapons at the low ready. |
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That said, if there's even the realistic thought of armed conflict myself and everyone with me would be weapons at the low ready. Folks that right there is the difference between someone who has a combat mindset, and someone who is pretending they will be fine if their lethal talisman is in their pack. |
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That said, if there's even the realistic thought of armed conflict myself and everyone with me would be weapons at the low ready. Folks that right there is the difference between someone who has a combat mindset, and someone who is pretending they will be fine if their lethal talisman is in their pack. The problem here is that for the most probable bug out situations here in the CONUS, you should *not* be in a combat mindset, you should simply be in a situational awareness defensive mindset with weapons discretely concealed. |
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That said, if there's even the realistic thought of armed conflict myself and everyone with me would be weapons at the low ready. Folks that right there is the difference between someone who has a combat mindset, and someone who is pretending they will be fine if their lethal talisman is in their pack. The problem here is that for the most probable bug out situations here in the CONUS, you should *not* be in a combat mindset, you should simply be in a situational awareness defensive mindset with weapons discretely concealed. I disagree. If one has to bug-out on foot - odds are that is a 'combat' situation the evacuee just hasn't realized it yet. I could see discrete concealed (like a jacket covering your holster), but NOT putting the firearm you intend to use in your pack. |
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That said, if there's even the realistic thought of armed conflict myself and everyone with me would be weapons at the low ready. Folks that right there is the difference between someone who has a combat mindset, and someone who is pretending they will be fine if their lethal talisman is in their pack. The problem here is that for the most probable bug out situations here in the CONUS, you should *not* be in a combat mindset, you should simply be in a situational awareness defensive mindset with weapons discretely concealed. If things are bad enough to where I have to leave right now, on foot, with a pack on my back you had better believe I will be in a "combat mindset". I'm struggling to find a reason to bug out on foot with all my supplies on my back where I would not want to be thinking like that. |
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That said, if there's even the realistic thought of armed conflict myself and everyone with me would be weapons at the low ready. Folks that right there is the difference between someone who has a combat mindset, and someone who is pretending they will be fine if their lethal talisman is in their pack. The problem here is that for the most probable bug out situations here in the CONUS, you should *not* be in a combat mindset, you should simply be in a situational awareness defensive mindset with weapons discretely concealed. If things are bad enough to where I have to leave right now, on foot, with a pack on my back you had better believe I will be in a "combat mindset". I'm struggling to find a reason to bug out on foot with all my supplies on my back where I would not want to be thinking like that. One word - Flood. If you haven't evacuated early enough, or a flash flood has blocked roadways you may well be on foot and *not* in any sort of combat situation. If you've got an amphibious duckmobile this situation may not apply to you. |
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That said, if there's even the realistic thought of armed conflict myself and everyone with me would be weapons at the low ready. Folks that right there is the difference between someone who has a combat mindset, and someone who is pretending they will be fine if their lethal talisman is in their pack. The problem here is that for the most probable bug out situations here in the CONUS, you should *not* be in a combat mindset, you should simply be in a situational awareness defensive mindset with weapons discretely concealed. If things are bad enough to where I have to leave right now, on foot, with a pack on my back you had better believe I will be in a "combat mindset". I'm struggling to find a reason to bug out on foot with all my supplies on my back where I would not want to be thinking like that. One word - Flood. If you haven't evacuated early enough, or a flash flood has blocked roadways you may well be on foot and *not* in any sort of combat situation. If you've got an amphibious duckmobile this situation may not apply to you. So you think if there's a flash flood happening quick enough to where you will literally run from your house you will have the time or desire to grab a rucksack? That said, going out on foot in a flash flood situation doesn't seem like a great idea to begin with. If that's your plan you may want to train up. I can run 10 miles with a pack on, but its not easy, especially for someone who has never done it. In the odd chance of this happening, ummm...sure...I can also keep my pistol concealed and pack my SBR, I guess. |
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That said, if there's even the realistic thought of armed conflict myself and everyone with me would be weapons at the low ready. Folks that right there is the difference between someone who has a combat mindset, and someone who is pretending they will be fine if their lethal talisman is in their pack. The problem here is that for the most probable bug out situations here in the CONUS, you should *not* be in a combat mindset, you should simply be in a situational awareness defensive mindset with weapons discretely concealed. If things are bad enough to where I have to leave right now, on foot, with a pack on my back you had better believe I will be in a "combat mindset". I'm struggling to find a reason to bug out on foot with all my supplies on my back where I would not want to be thinking like that. One word - Flood. If you haven't evacuated early enough, or a flash flood has blocked roadways you may well be on foot and *not* in any sort of combat situation. If you've got an amphibious duckmobile this situation may not apply to you. So you think if there's a flash flood happening quick enough to where you will literally run from your house you will have the time or desire to grab a rucksack? If you don't have your BOB complete and ready to grab on your way out the door you have failed even before you have started. Instant availability is rather a key feature of a BOB. As for the need to evacuate on foot, there can be many reasons to even if your place isn't immediately flooding, say you are downstream of a sewage treatment plant and want to get out before everything is contasminated with overflow. We saw plenty of on foot evacuation during Katrina that was not a combat situation, rather just a flow of people to an evacuation location. People like to hype up Katrina as some sort of Mad Max end of the world, but the reality was mostly a bunch of people walking in search of a safer place and assistance. At any rate, my main point is that if you go out weapons at the ready, you will attract a combat situation while if you keep them concealed and look like everyone else you likely won't find a combat need. |
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[ If you don't have your BOB complete and ready to grab on your way out the door you have failed even before you have started. Instant availability is rather a key feature of a BOB. Wasn't my point. Hope you know how to swim with a pack on. Ok, 99.9% of dismounted bugouts would be considered high threat situations. You got me. 
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[ If you don't have your BOB complete and ready to grab on your way out the door you have failed even before you have started. Instant availability is rather a key feature of a BOB. Wasn't my point. Hope you know how to swim with a pack on. Ok, 99.9% of dismounted bugouts would be considered high threat situations. You got me. My BOB has most everything in sealed pouches i.e. Foodsavered, so it is both water resistant and floatable. If the water was deep enough that I had to swim, the pack would not be on me it would be attached to me with a teather (also in the BOB) and towed along floating on the surface. |
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[ If you don't have your BOB complete and ready to grab on your way out the door you have failed even before you have started. Instant availability is rather a key feature of a BOB. Wasn't my point. Hope you know how to swim with a pack on. Ok, 99.9% of dismounted bugouts would be considered high threat situations. You got me. My BOB has most everything in sealed pouches i.e. Foodsavered, so it is both water resistant and floatable. If the water was deep enough that I had to swim, the pack would not be on me it would be attached to me with a teather (also in the BOB) and towed along floating on the surface. Cool, so you are prepared to do the exact worst thing you could possibly do during a flash flood....outrunning it on foot and/or getting in the water. Good luck with that. |
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[ If you don't have your BOB complete and ready to grab on your way out the door you have failed even before you have started. Instant availability is rather a key feature of a BOB. Wasn't my point. Hope you know how to swim with a pack on. Ok, 99.9% of dismounted bugouts would be considered high threat situations. You got me. My BOB has most everything in sealed pouches i.e. Foodsavered, so it is both water resistant and floatable. If the water was deep enough that I had to swim, the pack would not be on me it would be attached to me with a teather (also in the BOB) and towed along floating on the surface. Cool, so you are prepared to do the exact worst thing you could possibly do during a flash flood....outrunning it on foot and/or getting in the water. Good luck with that. We'll see how long you last doing your rambo impression in the middle of a peaceful evacuation... |
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[ If you don't have your BOB complete and ready to grab on your way out the door you have failed even before you have started. Instant availability is rather a key feature of a BOB. Wasn't my point. Hope you know how to swim with a pack on. Ok, 99.9% of dismounted bugouts would be considered high threat situations. You got me. My BOB has most everything in sealed pouches i.e. Foodsavered, so it is both water resistant and floatable. If the water was deep enough that I had to swim, the pack would not be on me it would be attached to me with a teather (also in the BOB) and towed along floating on the surface. Cool, so you are prepared to do the exact worst thing you could possibly do during a flash flood....outrunning it on foot and/or getting in the water. Good luck with that. We'll see how long you last doing your rambo impression in the middle of a peaceful evacuation... Yes, because I am unable to adapt at all and simply pack my weapon if needed.  . While we're reaching to create silly scenarios solely to counter others prep plans, ill be sure to use my rifle to fish your corpse out of the flotsam when the radioactive meteors hit and pin you underwater as you snorkel through the flash flood.
That said, I would rather be Rambo and not need it, than need it and not be able to pull it off. |
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ahhh..so much fun in these threads. LOL. 90% of preppers havent had to bug out for shit. ( of course now everyone will come up with some i had to leave to the hotel because the power was out and i was hot stories)  Bugging out on foot for a non- aka red dawn shtf means that the person either 1- got blindsided by mother nature ( tornado hitting on a calm day ) or 2- they had some very piss poor planning. Having been in #1 before i can say that i never had to walk out on foot with a pack on,let alone the worry of hiding a long arm. Now. some will say what happens if my car breaks down 15 miles from home,,i cant leave my BOB and rifle behind. Ok,good point. But how many here will walk the 15 miles to the gas station to call for a wrecker or a ride? Yip, i see about .0000000001% of any of us doing just that. Even in bad weather people will sit,call, wave down help. SO where or why would you strap on thep ack and walk again? hurricanes..see #1....even afterwards you wont be walking...wait katrina...well being in FLa, i can say that even if my place was leveled ( which it practically was in 04..) my ass only walked to and from work....less than 1/4 mile. No BOB needed....nor a means to conceal a rifle. Ok..so now.. why a pack that holds a rifle. these are my reasons and im sure some as to why the packs were made/designed that way. 1- military use- deployment. A way to carry a second long arm aka a sniper for example or during travel from point A to B in a NON combat area. 2- hunting. Where a rifle can be stowed as a hunter stalks/hikes to a base camp ( aka long distance elk hunting) 3- LEO. So an officer could have a shooter bag with a longarm already in place to grab from their cruiser. 4- internet cool guys- so they can say they carried their rifle on a 2 mile day hike before posting pictures of the pack for a half assed review. Sides that...an AR/m4 will fit down inside most 4500+ CI internal framed packs.As will an under folder.... when i see the argument of "blending" in i always chuckle and think back when prepper was a new term and so many spewed off about "greymen" and the clothes you would wear... all i can picture is that cell phone guy carrying a molle laden pack in " tan" since its a neutral color.... ( i await the counter argument that being grey isnt about clothing now LOL ) oh the endless circle LOL if the event is that bad where your worried about your long arm and you are bugging out with your BOB on FOOT....its gone to shit and i for one, like daemon already said my long arm will be in my hands. ymmv |
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90% of preppers havent had to bug out for shit. ( of course now everyone will come up with some i had to leave to the hotel because the power was out and i was hot stories)
You are correct, I have not yet had a situation that required me to abandon my home and what events there have been that affected my location have been readily dealt with with my ususal non-prepper preps. I have however had a few events that required me to "bug in", not in the usual sense, but rather to pack tools and gear and bug into an impacted area to assist friends or relatives. The most recent of these "bug in" events was joining the long line of utility trucks headed into CT last Oct/Nov after the really nasty winter storm they had that knocked out power to 80% of the state. As you got close to the affected area you found that the primary roads were passable at this point (it takes two days to drive there), but you'd better have reserve fuel and cash with you since the fuel stations along the primary roads frequently had power back, but no com for credit card sales, or further in they were still without power. I had to bring in a generator to power the house and furnace (oil heat, plenty of fuel), spend several days clearing downed trees and branches with the chainsaw, patch two holes in a roof from large falling branches and generally save the day. I've had several other similar situations after storms or small tornadoes. |
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Everything I need to start my "bugout" ( What a joke), is contained in a soviet RPK drum pouch, everything else I need will be provided by all of the guys I find dead from Cardiac Arrest with their M4geries, 120lb pack and high speed shit. Of course I will likely die from malnutrition eating all the pogey bait from their "bobs". Between the heart failure guys and the guys dead from gunfights over .45-vs-9mm I suspect I will do quite well.
Rikki |
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In my limited experience, a good, versatile sling is the way to carry a rifle. I personally like the Viking Tactical (VTac) sling.
- it provides quick access to the rifle - you can move/adjust your carry to minimize fatigue - it does double-duty as a carry method and an aid to steady aim - it can be used as a field-expedient tourniquet (triple duty!) - it is simple and light A simple, light, triple-duty item is a no-brainer M2 is right; in a bug-out or SHTF scenario you will want quick and easy access to both your primary & secondary weapons, plus reloads. Stashing them away for easy carry is limiting in ways I don't want to be limited. I still have not found a good way to carry reloads. Any ideas? |
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After Katrina, there were times when bristling with visible weaponry was what kept you unharassed, moving, and quite possibly alive. And there were times that walking unarmed across a bridge got you shot by trigger happy cops. It works both ways. I'm inclined to not show any visible weapons until threatened. |
| If it's bad enough for me to have to BO, I really don't give a &*&% what other people think about me having a rifle. Come near enough to bother me in that scenario and it will be the last time your liberal feelings and thoughts spew forth from your mouth. I'll sleep fine. If I am packing a rifle because I need it, I'm not messing around and am not looking to make friends. |
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Quoted: In my limited experience, a good, versatile sling is the way to carry a rifle. I personally like the Viking Tactical (VTac) sling. - it provides quick access to the rifle - you can move/adjust your carry to minimize fatigue - it does double-duty as a carry method and an aid to steady aim - it can be used as a field-expedient tourniquet (triple duty!) - it is simple and light A simple, light, triple-duty item is a no-brainer M2 is right; in a bug-out or SHTF scenario you will want quick and easy access to both your primary & secondary weapons, plus reloads. Stashing them away for easy carry is limiting in ways I don't want to be limited. I still have not found a good way to carry reloads. Any ideas? with a pack? for me, my ruck's top lid converts to a chest pack. its able to hold some rifle mags, or if its full it's got molle webbing on it so i could attach some reloads that way , the hip pad also has molle attachment points where i could put some reloads. honestly though i wouldnt over load them any how. as if i gotta shoot and scoot ill dump my ruck asap. which is where a micro rig may come in handy imho. |
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Everything I need to start my "bugout" ( What a joke), is contained in a soviet RPK drum pouch, everything else I need will be provided by all of the guys I find dead from Cardiac Arrest with their M4geries, 120lb pack and high speed shit. Of course I will likely die from malnutrition eating all the pogey bait from their "bobs". Between the heart failure guys and the guys dead from gunfights over .45-vs-9mm I suspect I will do quite well. Rikki What he said! I live on the gulf coast, hurricanes are a very real possibility during the season, and I do prep for a storm, ie. Food, fuel, water, AMMO, ETC..... If it comes to bugging out on foot, THEN ALL HELL HAS BROKE LOOSE BECAUSE IT FROZE OVER. |
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Back to the OP....
I was at the said location with the OP as a competitor. I think the point he is making is that there were a bunch of folks who went completely concealed. I saw guys pulling out and putting together AR's out of a pack and no sidearm on or available at all. The idea is that if you become confronted with something bad, you need to deal with it immediately. Digging stuff out of your pack doesn't cut it. Many folks ran the Eberlestock packs, which are super comfortable but unless you slide it in the top and have it ready to pull out, there is a real problem getting access to it. That said, I ran my AR strapped to the side of my pack in a Kifaru universal sling with QD buckles. I can pop the buckles with pack on and pull rifle ready for use. Not as fast as having it in your hands but allows me to move fast and over obstacles. The second point is do you conceal as to not "draw" a threat to you, or do you go open and run the risk of LEO or bad guys wanting your stuff since they can see you are armed. There is no right answer to this question. I am on the side of being the baddest MF in the jungle. Personal decision. I want folks to steer clear and I think that even law enforcement in most cases is going to let you move on. I guess when things go really bad, and one side is still standing, we will know who is right. LD |
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ahhh..so much fun in these threads. LOL. 90% of preppers havent had to bug out for shit. ( of course now everyone will come up with some i had to leave to the hotel because the power was out and i was hot stories)
Bugging out on foot for a non- aka red dawn shtf means that the person either 1- got blindsided by mother nature ( tornado hitting on a calm day ) or 2- they had some very piss poor planning. Having been in #1 before i can say that i never had to walk out on foot with a pack on,let alone the worry of hiding a long arm. Now. some will say what happens if my car breaks down 15 miles from home,,i cant leave my BOB and rifle behind. Ok,good point. But how many here will walk the 15 miles to the gas station to call for a wrecker or a ride? Yip, i see about .0000000001% of any of us doing just that. Even in bad weather people will sit,call, wave down help. SO where or why would you strap on thep ack and walk again? hurricanes..see #1....even afterwards you wont be walking...wait katrina...well being in FLa, i can say that even if my place was leveled ( which it practically was in 04..) my ass only walked to and from work....less than 1/4 mile. No BOB needed....nor a means to conceal a rifle. Ok..so now.. why a pack that holds a rifle. these are my reasons and im sure some as to why the packs were made/designed that way. 1- military use- deployment. A way to carry a second long arm aka a sniper for example or during travel from point A to B in a NON combat area. 2- hunting. Where a rifle can be stowed as a hunter stalks/hikes to a base camp ( aka long distance elk hunting) 3- LEO. So an officer could have a shooter bag with a longarm already in place to grab from their cruiser. 4- internet cool guys- so they can say they carried their rifle on a 2 mile day hike before posting pictures of the pack for a half assed review. Sides that...an AR/m4 will fit down inside most 4500+ CI internal framed packs.As will an under folder.... when i see the argument of "blending" in i always chuckle and think back when prepper was a new term and so many spewed off about "greymen" and the clothes you would wear... all i can picture is that cell phone guy carrying a molle laden pack in " tan" since its a neutral color.... ( i await the counter argument that being grey isnt about clothing now LOL ) oh the endless circle LOL if the event is that bad where your worried about your long arm and you are bugging out with your BOB on FOOT....its gone to shit and i for one, like daemon already said my long arm will be in my hands. ymmv Internet is serious business! I had an Eberlestock for a while there.. I liked it, but sold it on when I figured out how to sew my own gear. Still haven't finished my bag, though since I keep taking it apart to change things :/ |