Posted: 6/25/2012 11:40:48 PM EDT
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We are in the process of buying some land. Its outside county water reach, so we need a well (we were going to get one anyhow).
Can someone school me on the options / decisions we should keep in mind? For instance, my plan was to get a pump that will run off street power and our whole-house generator and pump it into a larger tank, only running the pump when the tank gets to a specific level. I'm pretty sure I read someone who had a setup like this automated. What else should we do? Any gotchas? |
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If it were me, I'd at least consider going with DC pump/solar setup. It's more of an investment up front, but since you'll be starting from scratch it wouldn't be as painful as retrofitting an existing system. Some of the add'l expense would be offset by not needing the storage tank setup and savings on the electric bill.
I can tell you from experience (before I had a decent generator) that being without plentiful water during an extended power outage is The Big Suck. |
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Quoted:
We are in the process of buying some land. Its outside county water reach, so we need a well (we were going to get one anyhow). Can someone school me on the options / decisions we should keep in mind? For instance, my plan was to get a pump that will run off street power and our whole-house generator and pump it into a larger tank, only running the pump when the tank gets to a specific level. I'm pretty sure I read someone who had a setup like this automated. What else should we do? Any gotchas? pretty much all residential wells work like that. |
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We are in the process of buying some land. Its outside county water reach, so we need a well (we were going to get one anyhow). Can someone school me on the options / decisions we should keep in mind? For instance, my plan was to get a pump that will run off street power and our whole-house generator and pump it into a larger tank, only running the pump when the tank gets to a specific level. I'm pretty sure I read someone who had a setup like this automated. What else should we do? Any gotchas? pretty much all residential wells work like that. As do most municipal water plants, albeit on a much larger scale. edit: OP, you can get the water tested and purchase a small (15-20 gallon) sodium hypochlorite tank and a very low volume pump and have basically a scaled down version of a municipal system, for a few hundred bucks. Just be careful with the chlorine, it's nasty shit. another edit: times must have changed. It looks like venturi injection might be the way to go instead of a metering pump. link |
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Right idea, but I don't know where you are going?
A pump system nowadays is a downhole submersion pump, and a bladder tank, with a pressure switch that turns the pump off when the bladder tank is full. You can buy the whole setup from the guy who drills the well. As for generator backup, you just figure that circuit in your generator plan and size accordingly. The real problem with wells is how do you get it out when there's no power, grid or generator. Depending on how deep, what you are faced with then is having to deal with real trickle flow to a tank, and no pressure through a conventional ground level system. There's dozens of ways of getting teh water up. Probably the most commonly known is a hand pump for shallow wells and a windmill for deep wells. For pressure, while those of us in the US tend to think in terms of a big high stand alone water tower, in Europe the norm is simply a small tank on top the house. Taking a shower in England can really suck but it works. The basic idea though is the same for the conventional pump system as emergency. You size your tank for optimal flow conditions, shower, wash dishes, flusing, and your pump to refill the storage bladdr/tank on a trickle bases in time to meet demand. Ideal would be a one day minimum but normal is far more fine tuned. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. The reason why a bladder tank can be at or below ground level is it has air. Unlike water, air is compressible. LIke the water rockets when we were kids, the air compresses on the water so that you can run for quite a while without the pump coming on. Since the amount of air is finite, pressure then gives you the water level in the bladder. Once the pressure drops to a point, the pump then is kicked on by a pressure switch simply putting power through a relay to the pump. The pump then pumps water till the volume of water displaces enough air to get the pressure back up. Quite clever those Americans. Tj |
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Thanks for the helpful info so far.
Spoke with two different drillers and they are estimating 300-350 ft. The land is rolling/hilly (side of a hill) and heavily forested. We want to keep most of the canopy, so I'm not sure how effective solar will be outside of the fall/winter months when the trees are bare. I had planned on a solar system for the cabin, supplemented by street power - but I don't know how viable that will be. Part of the issue is that we won't be building a cabin there for several years, but we will be drilling the well as soon as we close on the land and clear a spot. Short term goal is camping, long term is weekend retreat / BOL / retirement. Land is 20 acres. |
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We just brought our power in, did a simple box on the pole, an underground line to the well, and a spickot right on top of the well which was threaded for a hose.
When you have a semi permanent camper or trailer, you simply add a well house, a small block building just enough to hold the bladder. I know quite a few people that even after they built their homes left the well house in place to save space in their homes. That's a shallow well btw. You can buy a hand pump for it. The 300' depth is probably to get you volume and the water a lot closer to surface. Average deep well lift pump is down to 200' about $400 but you can buy them down to 350'. Tj |
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My new property is drilled down to about 500' and has the standard pressure tank setup. I'm in the process of evaluating options for pulling up water without power. I'll probably end up going with a good generator, and a few 55 gal drums for emergency storage. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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We are in the process of buying some land. Its outside county water reach, so we need a well (we were going to get one anyhow). Can someone school me on the options / decisions we should keep in mind? For instance, my plan was to get a pump that will run off street power and our whole-house generator and pump it into a larger tank, only running the pump when the tank gets to a specific level. I'm pretty sure I read someone who had a setup like this automated. What else should we do? Any gotchas? Well pumps last longer if they are run infrequently and when run stay on for a while. A lot of start stops kills them (they still last a while, just not as long). There are a couple of ways to keep your pump from constantly running. One option is to get as large of pressure tanks as you can afford. A friend of mine has two 80 gallon tanks. This saves his pump, but also means he has 160 gallons of water if the power goes out - enough to get him and his wife through most emergencies w/o having to hook up his generator. The other option is to use the well pump to fill a large (e.g., 300 gallon or bigger) non-pressurized tank and then use a small electric (above ground) pump to pressurize the house's pipes. I recall somebody on here that had this type of setup. The non-pressurized tank had a float that kicked the pump on when it reached a certain level. When you get an estimate on pump size, go a little bigger. I've never heard anybody say, "I wish I had less water pressure". Also, when you install the system, or whoever does, install a lot of shutoff valves. If you have two pressure tanks, put a valve on each. Put a shut off valve going into the house as well. This way, if you have to work on the system, you can isolate the parts and replace them. When I work on mine, I have to drain the whole system, which means I either have to go outside and turn the hose on or turn on the faucets to drain it, putting extra water needlessly into the septic system. I had a friend install a line directly from his pump to an outdoor spigot. He was willing to stress the pump some to get the extra pressure, increased flow for filling troughs and watering. Would also be good for spraying on a fire. |
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We are in the process of buying some land. Its outside county water reach, so we need a well (we were going to get one anyhow). Can someone school me on the options / decisions we should keep in mind? For instance, my plan was to get a pump that will run off street power and our whole-house generator and pump it into a larger tank, only running the pump when the tank gets to a specific level. I'm pretty sure I read someone who had a setup like this automated. What else should we do? Any gotchas? Why yes, I do have that set up. my system goes as follows: well/well pump - 3,000 gallon poly storage tank - auxillary pump (shallow jet well pump) - pressure tank - house. The "brains" behind the system is called a Pump Saver. There are float switches inside the large storage tank which tell the pump saver when to turn on the well. The traditional pressure switch in the pressure tank tells the auxillary pump when to come on like a normal well would. The pump saver can also tell the auxillary pump not to pressurize the house if there is less than a certain amount in the storage tank (in my case, if there is less than 600 gallons in the storage tank). the reason behind this is that if there is that little in the storage tank, there is something wrong. If this happens, the pump saver can still be overridden to access that last 600 gallons. this came in handy when my GodForsaken cow broke a pressurized 2' line, which promptly emptied the tank. When the house lost pressure, I knew something was wrong. I was able to isolate the broken line, then override the pump saver to almost instantly re pressurize the house without waiting for the well to refill the tank. The pump saver also has a cutoff that will put you well on a "timeout" if the well output drops below a GPM, stopping your pump from ever pumping without water. It turns the pump off for a programable interval (mine is 15 minutes) while the well replenishes itself. We sit on a granite shelf, so during heavy useage, our well will drop down to a trickle if pushed too hard. the 15 minutes allows more water to filter into our well, but with the pump saver, our pump never suffers because of this process. It gets turned off before it can hurt itself by running the well temporarily "dry". 
I went into more depth in the thread he linked. 
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We are in the process of buying some land. Its outside county water reach, so we need a well (we were going to get one anyhow). Can someone school me on the options / decisions we should keep in mind? For instance, my plan was to get a pump that will run off street power and our whole-house generator and pump it into a larger tank, only running the pump when the tank gets to a specific level. I'm pretty sure I read someone who had a setup like this automated. What else should we do? Any gotchas? Why yes, I do have that set up. my system goes as follows: well/well pump - 3,000 gallon poly storage tank - auxillary pump (shallow jet well pump) - pressure tank - house. The "brains" behind the system is called a Pump Saver. There are float switches inside the large storage tank which tell the pump saver when to turn on the well. The traditional pressure switch in the pressure tank tells the auxillary pump when to come on like a normal well would. The pump saver can also tell the auxillary pump not to pressurize the house if there is less than a certain amount in the storage tank (in my case, if there is less than 600 gallons in the storage tank). the reason behind this is that if there is that little in the storage tank, there is something wrong. If this happens, the pump saver can still be overridden to access that last 600 gallons. this came in handy when my GodForsaken cow broke a pressurized 2' line, which promptly emptied the tank. When the house lost pressure, I knew something was wrong. I was able to isolate the broken line, then override the pump saver to almost instantly re pressurize the house without waiting for the well to refill the tank. The pump saver also has a cutoff that will put you well on a "timeout" if the well output drops below a GPM, stopping your pump from ever pumping without water. It turns the pump off for a programable interval (mine is 15 minutes) while the well replenishes itself. We sit on a granite shelf, so during heavy useage, our well will drop down to a trickle if pushed too hard. the 15 minutes allows more water to filter into our well, but with the pump saver, our pump never suffers because of this process. It gets turned off before it can hurt itself by running the well temporarily "dry". http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss218/darrellapp/arfcomwatertank017.jpg I went into more depth in the thread he linked.
In the other thread you never mentioned what the pump saver cost. That thing is CHEAP! I may have to do this after all! |
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We are in the process of buying some land. Its outside county water reach, so we need a well (we were going to get one anyhow). Can someone school me on the options / decisions we should keep in mind? For instance, my plan was to get a pump that will run off street power and our whole-house generator and pump it into a larger tank, only running the pump when the tank gets to a specific level. I'm pretty sure I read someone who had a setup like this automated. What else should we do? Any gotchas? Why yes, I do have that set up. my system goes as follows: well/well pump - 3,000 gallon poly storage tank - auxillary pump (shallow jet well pump) - pressure tank - house. The "brains" behind the system is called a Pump Saver. There are float switches inside the large storage tank which tell the pump saver when to turn on the well. The traditional pressure switch in the pressure tank tells the auxillary pump when to come on like a normal well would. The pump saver can also tell the auxillary pump not to pressurize the house if there is less than a certain amount in the storage tank (in my case, if there is less than 600 gallons in the storage tank). the reason behind this is that if there is that little in the storage tank, there is something wrong. If this happens, the pump saver can still be overridden to access that last 600 gallons. this came in handy when my GodForsaken cow broke a pressurized 2' line, which promptly emptied the tank. When the house lost pressure, I knew something was wrong. I was able to isolate the broken line, then override the pump saver to almost instantly re pressurize the house without waiting for the well to refill the tank. The pump saver also has a cutoff that will put you well on a "timeout" if the well output drops below a GPM, stopping your pump from ever pumping without water. It turns the pump off for a programable interval (mine is 15 minutes) while the well replenishes itself. We sit on a granite shelf, so during heavy useage, our well will drop down to a trickle if pushed too hard. the 15 minutes allows more water to filter into our well, but with the pump saver, our pump never suffers because of this process. It gets turned off before it can hurt itself by running the well temporarily "dry". http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss218/darrellapp/arfcomwatertank017.jpg I went into more depth in the thread he linked.
In the other thread you never mentioned what the pump saver cost. That thing is CHEAP! I may have to do this after all! just a heads up, the switches that go into the tank run about $100 bucks a set, and you need two sets as well, even considering that, I think its a crazy good price for what it does. Unless you really know what you are doing, have a knowledgeable well guy hook it up. Lots of wires, not so much explanation on what the wires are... |
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My new property is drilled down to about 500' and has the standard pressure tank setup. I'm in the process of evaluating options for pulling up water without power. I'll probably end up going with a good generator, and a few 55 gal drums for emergency storage. Hmm. TJ mentioned 300 being shallow, but both drillers we spoke with quoted the same typical depth. Quoted:
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We are in the process of buying some land. Its outside county water reach, so we need a well (we were going to get one anyhow). Can someone school me on the options / decisions we should keep in mind? For instance, my plan was to get a pump that will run off street power and our whole-house generator and pump it into a larger tank, only running the pump when the tank gets to a specific level. I'm pretty sure I read someone who had a setup like this automated. What else should we do? Any gotchas? Well pumps last longer if they are run infrequently and when run stay on for a while. A lot of start stops kills them (they still last a while, just not as long). There are a couple of ways to keep your pump from constantly running. One option is to get as large of pressure tanks as you can afford. A friend of mine has two 80 gallon tanks. This saves his pump, but also means he has 160 gallons of water if the power goes out - enough to get him and his wife through most emergencies w/o having to hook up his generator. The other option is to use the well pump to fill a large (e.g., 300 gallon or bigger) non-pressurized tank and then use a small electric (above ground) pump to pressurize the house's pipes. I recall somebody on here that had this type of setup. The non-pressurized tank had a float that kicked the pump on when it reached a certain level. When you get an estimate on pump size, go a little bigger. I've never heard anybody say, "I wish I had less water pressure". Also, when you install the system, or whoever does, install a lot of shutoff valves. If you have two pressure tanks, put a valve on each. Put a shut off valve going into the house as well. This way, if you have to work on the system, you can isolate the parts and replace them. When I work on mine, I have to drain the whole system, which means I either have to go outside and turn the hose on or turn on the faucets to drain it, putting extra water needlessly into the septic system. I had a friend install a line directly from his pump to an outdoor spigot. He was willing to stress the pump some to get the extra pressure, increased flow for filling troughs and watering. Would also be good for spraying on a fire. I like the idea of a non-pressurized tank with a pump to create pressure. I'd like to have 2-500 gallons available to the cabin, with another 2-500 gallons stored in 55 gallon barrels for SHTF. I was thinking maybe 6 barrels, rotated every 2 months. |
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We are in the process of buying some land. Its outside county water reach, so we need a well (we were going to get one anyhow). Can someone school me on the options / decisions we should keep in mind? For instance, my plan was to get a pump that will run off street power and our whole-house generator and pump it into a larger tank, only running the pump when the tank gets to a specific level. I'm pretty sure I read someone who had a setup like this automated. What else should we do? Any gotchas? Why yes, I do have that set up. my system goes as follows: well/well pump - 3,000 gallon poly storage tank - auxillary pump (shallow jet well pump) - pressure tank - house. The "brains" behind the system is called a Pump Saver. There are float switches inside the large storage tank which tell the pump saver when to turn on the well. The traditional pressure switch in the pressure tank tells the auxillary pump when to come on like a normal well would. The pump saver can also tell the auxillary pump not to pressurize the house if there is less than a certain amount in the storage tank (in my case, if there is less than 600 gallons in the storage tank). the reason behind this is that if there is that little in the storage tank, there is something wrong. If this happens, the pump saver can still be overridden to access that last 600 gallons. this came in handy when my GodForsaken cow broke a pressurized 2' line, which promptly emptied the tank. When the house lost pressure, I knew something was wrong. I was able to isolate the broken line, then override the pump saver to almost instantly re pressurize the house without waiting for the well to refill the tank. The pump saver also has a cutoff that will put you well on a "timeout" if the well output drops below a GPM, stopping your pump from ever pumping without water. It turns the pump off for a programable interval (mine is 15 minutes) while the well replenishes itself. We sit on a granite shelf, so during heavy useage, our well will drop down to a trickle if pushed too hard. the 15 minutes allows more water to filter into our well, but with the pump saver, our pump never suffers because of this process. It gets turned off before it can hurt itself by running the well temporarily "dry". http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss218/darrellapp/arfcomwatertank017.jpg I went into more depth in the thread he linked.
That's it! Thanks for the link, and the write up. I think this is the model I want to go after, although maybe not such a large tank unless I find one at a bargain. |
You think mine is big? I just had a good friend put in 2 tanks that are 5,000 gallons apiece. now, she is looking for a few my size to use for rain catchment. She takes this shit SERIOUSLY. Makes me look like an amateur. Well, more like an amateur than I make myself look. 
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You think mine is big? I just had a good friend put in 2 tanks that are 5,000 gallons apiece. now, she is looking for a few my size to use for rain catchment. She takes this shit SERIOUSLY. Makes me look like an amateur. Well, more like an amateur than I make myself look. Lol, I may reconsider, but aesthetics have a place when the wife gets involved.
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Another option, since you said you had hills, is to put one of the storage tanks at the high point of the property and use gravity to give you household pressure. In Texas it was common to have a windmill and a tank elevated about ten feet for pressure. You don't really need forty pounds of pressure for a small system like that. Cities do that because they need flow to be consistent uphill and down and because demand varies when a thousand people flush at the same time.
With large storage tanks you can use a low volume solar pump. Once the tank is full you don't need a power hungry high volume pump to stay ahead of demand. Most systems today are based on convenience and cheap power. You want a system designed for simplicity and reliability. If I remember correctly the low volume DC pumps are small and light enough that they can be installed by hand. If so you can keep a spare on the shelf in case of pump failure. Make sure to have your well water tested before installing your equipment. Our town has a contaminated water table because old gas station tanks leaked. |