[ARCHIVED THREAD] - SHTF @ knifepoint (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/6/2012 5:14:14 AM EDT
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I would like to get the hives input on how to better prep for something similar, if i was with or it was me it would have went down different.
Yesterday my brother-in law that lives with me was held up at knifepoint in the subway in NYC at about 6:15am. No one was around other then the thug and him. thug had a switchblade about 7-8" long and was right in front of him. brother-in law had nothing for defense. Thug demanded his money but he had none "hes a student in NYC" brother-in law was able to talk his way out of it but was lucky IMO. i gave him a spare kershaw knife that i had after he told me and he bought a 6Mvolt tazer for his mother but i dont know that they or the knife is legal in NYC so info on the would be good. what other options would he have? we live in NJ and he takes the train and subway to his school every day. from what he told me, i would have hit him in the throut most likely plus i always have a knife on me. the thug was about 5'7" 150lbs in his 20s |
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The battle was already lost. If the thug was that close, your BIL would have had 4 extra breathing holes before he could draw or unsheath anything. Size is irrelvant once weapons come in to play. If anything, 5'7" 150 sounds really quick. I'd have had no choice but to give him my money no matter what I had on me in that situation. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Your brother carrying that knife is a tragedy waiting to happen. If another mugger has a knife out and your brother goes for a knife that he has no idea how to deploy or use correctly he is going to get cut to shit and either die or be all fucked up.
Your brother failed in spatial and situational awareness. A weapon means jack shit if you don't know when a situation is happening in which you need to use it. |
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Your brother carrying that knife is a tragedy waiting to happen. If another mugger has a knife out and your brother goes for a knife that he has no idea how to deploy or use correctly he is going to get cut to shit and either die or be all fucked up. Your brother failed in spatial and situational awareness. A weapon means jack shit if you don't know when a situation is happening in which you need to use it. yup that where he and i would have differed big time im always looking and even sizing people up. i like to be a few steps ahead. in hes defense hes new to preping and looking for things like this. might have to sit down with him about things like that. where i already have trained myself to look for everything. |
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Not sure about NY law, but there is no way I would depend on a tazer for an armed thug. Heavy clothes, bad stick, miss, etc., and you're all done.
Knife is also last resort for yours truly. I'm sure "move" is not good advice. Any chance of a routine that involves travelling with others? |
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Not sure about NY law, but there is no way I would depend on a tazer for an armed thug. Heavy clothes, bad stick, miss, etc., and you're all done. Knife is also last resort for yours truly. I'm sure "move" is not good advice. Any chance of a routine that involves travelling with others? its hit or miss with the traveling with others only because he travels early in the morning. we want to move for timing not right just yet, PA,FL,TX are our picks for where to move to. |
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I am glad I live in Upstate NY.... At least here I can legally carry the tools needed to protect myself.
I don't like it when strangers get close. I always try to keep an eye on people around me, but in a busy place i know its hard to do and I do my best to avoid it all together. I would imagine in NYC this can be very difficult. Is pepper spray legal in NYC? I always have a little one in my pocket... |
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he said that he was very focused on the wallet and i would think that a side step while a fast blow to the throut would have ended it? You have GOT to be shitting me. why? Because the real world doesn't work that way. If you walked up to some complete stranger on the subway, immersed in their newspaper, and tried to "side-step and punch them in the throat", they would see something coming out of the corner of their eye, flinch away so you catch them in the neck/side of head, say "Ow, wtf?" then stand up and beat your ass. Hollywood has done the world no favors in their representations of what fights are like. Some karate instructors can be just as bad. Your BIL handled the situation he was in PERFECTLY, as evidenced by the outcome. The lesson he needs to learn is how to avoid those situations, not how to try to go all Steven Seagal on a mugger with a knife. If he had tried your idea, he would be DEAD now. Dead. Dead, dead, dead. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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You are young... You are full of good hope....
Your brother in law was taxed: the slug who threatened him sized him up, decided he looked soft. Happy . He looked like he had something to lose. He was alone and blissful happy. He was a target. These slugs have nothing to lose. You will be poked. Prodded. Stuck and fucked if you try to defend against a knife -that is in the hand of a standing man- and you are sitting. If you resist a slug in a train car, in a room, miles from help..... Years away from having anyone help stop him from killing you.... Your BIL. Did the right thing. He got lucky. He needs to never be on that train at that time ever again. He is now considered an ATM. |
| Situation Awareness wouldve been the only thing to help, but luckily he talked himself out of it, for that He gets a few kudos. If he has a knife and doesnt know how to use it, its pretty useless IMO. With an attacker that close, he did the best thing possible. Next time, tell em to put his head on a swivel and dont let anyone within the 6' foot rule. Even if they are innocent and just asking some basic question or chit chat. Its easy to do without being rude, just say you have a cold and dont want to spread it. |
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I was born and raised in the Bronx, lived there until I was 22. Pretty much anything that's designed as a weapon or protective device is illegal. I will first say that it sounds like he did exactly right under the circumstances. Somebody gets the drop on you with a knife and no witnesses, your options are very limited. Size doesn't mean shit, especially if the guy had half a clue about what to do with the blade. Your b-i-l is not well-served by carrying one himself unless he's good with it already and has the mindset to close with and finish fast. I'm a proponent of the idea that NOBODY wins in a knife fight, one just loses a little more.
I rode the subway to work in Manhattan every day. I illegally carried a knife (or three - and trained with them) and an ASP baton. I was also known to carry a carpenters half-hatchet and I kept an undated receipt from a little hole-in-the-wall bodega in my wallet - it would have been a stretch but I was planning on the "lucky I just bought this before I was attacked" defense (this was the 1980s - fewer cameras and electronic tracking). When I was in "young professional" mode, I just carried a briefcase. I bought a mid-size model with decorative steel-reinforced corner caps. I practiced swinging it from low carry to jaw/temple on my heavy bag at home, then worked on figuring out good backhand targets for the return stroke. None of these were ideal but they were all better than nothing and half of them were legally plausible. Like your b-i-l, I managed to talk or posture myself out of trouble a lot. The only time I had to "use" any of the improvised stuff, the threats started at a sufficient distance that I was able to draw and brandishing with an obvious intent to engage was a good enough deterrent. If he improvises anything, PRACTICE A LOT AND REALISTICALLY. And, even more importantly, know when it's not even worth trying - like this past time. Or, better still, move 1,700 miles away where there are far fewer daily threats and you can carry a gun (or guns) legally. |
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Not that I would trust my life to this but here's some New York State legal pepper spray
http://selfdefenses.com/forcespray/newyork.html |
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If your brother made it through alive, that is the most important thing.
If you are in a NPE like New York City or Chicago, or even ANY high population density environment you need to keep your head on a swivel and do your best to AVOID any type of conflict. Hell, I do that even when I am armed! Last time I was in NYC, I carried my Surefire E2D in one hand concealed and had my other hand ready to go for my pocket folder if need be. I absolutely HATE being without a pistol. |
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The battle was already lost. If the thug was that close, your BIL would have had 4 extra breathing holes before he could draw or unsheath anything. Size is irrelvant once weapons come in to play. If anything, 5'7" 150 sounds really quick. I'd have had no choice but to give him my money no matter what I had on me in that situation. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This plus. If it's this close an encounter give what you have to give so the thug / thugs leave. If you are being physically attacked or your certain your about to be attacked do and use what you have and fight like your life depends on it, because it probably does. This is preaching to the choir in this forum but always be aware of your surroundings. In my job it's drilled into us, play the " what if " game. What do I do if this or that happens while I'm at this location or doing this assignment. As silly as this sounds it works and has saved a lot of lives at work. I do this multiple times a day everyday, work and off. |
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Your brother carrying that knife is a tragedy waiting to happen. If another mugger has a knife out and your brother goes for a knife that he has no idea how to deploy or use correctly he is going to get cut to shit and either die or be all fucked up. Your brother failed in spatial and situational awareness. A weapon means jack shit if you don't know when a situation is happening in which you need to use it. yup that where he and i would have differed big time im always looking and even sizing people up. i like to be a few steps ahead. in hes defense hes new to preping and looking for things like this. might have to sit down with him about things like that. where i already have trained myself to look for everything. How exactly have you trained yourself to look for everything? I am not trying to breka your balls, but you just asked us if a throat chop would work. yeah it would have worked, worked to getting your brother stabbed to death and mugged instead of just mugged. There is no way in the situation your brother was in I would have done anything differently even if I was armed. He let himself get corned, but in all truth there was nothing he could have done as it happened. Even pro-actively he couldn't have done much. He had to take the train. He had to be on that train I assume for class. Self defense tips I give and use. Look at all the people in the area you are in, know where exits and obstacles are. Look people in the eye when you interact with them. Pay an extra bit of attention to people looking around alot or at you or your group. GIve yourself room to move. If someone you don't approaches you while sitting, ALWAYS stand up. Action is faster than reaction, if you let someone get close enough to hurt you. they are going to act and your reaction will be slower than their action. You will be behind the curve. |
| Tell him to buy himself a new wallet. Put important stuff in new wallet. Leave some junk in old wallet like plastic cards you get in the mail, business cards, photos from a magazine, and $10-15 in single bills. When you get mugged pull the old wallet out toss it to the guy so it hits the ground. While he is trying to figure out if he did good your BIL is leaving at a high rate of speed. |
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Best advice is not to be on a subway, alone, in NYC at 6 AM. It's begging for this type of scenario. Good advice in theory but sometimes it's not an option. Folks gotta work and/or get to classes, unfortunately. Jobs and colleges exist outside of NYC, and most of them are daytime jobs / classes that won't force you to be in bad areas at 6 AM. I say this as a night shift working, NY resident. I would NEVER ride the subway at 6 AM, alone. Fuck that. If a job or class would force me to do so, I wouldn't take the job or class. It's not worth greatly increasing your odds of being shanked. The BIL merely got lucky up until this point. He's also lucky it ended as it did, and he didn't get hurt. |
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If you look like you are going to be a victim, you will be one. That goes both for Ninja and Give Ins a like.
It isn't that gun that will save you but your attitude. You won't be able to draw that gun any quicker than what this kid could have pulled a knife. The answer to "I'll stick you." is "I've been stuck before." That's not Ninja, that's just being a man. There are no tricks or gimmicks and if you are going to live in a high crime area, you either trust to luck or toughen yourself up. If the bad guy is worried about you, he won't be worrying about your wallet. Yes, 3 times attempted mugging. 3 times, the guy had better things to do than risk our lives. It was his call. Having his way with me, that just wasn't an option. We wear who we are in the way we do everything, not in our pockets. Showing confidence and being calm when you want to either lunge or hide, does more to prevent or end a situation than doing either of the other two. Maybe I'm just old school but since I learned this, I've traveled the world without muggings while many I know going the same places I do have been mugged. You don't have to outrun the bear, just your buddy. Sound crazy? Here's a truism, people don't screw with crazy people Tj. Tj |
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Your brother-in-law handled it just about right. You, on the other hand, sound like you'd have gotten yourself royally fucked up (or killed) if it had been you. Life isn't a martial arts movie, and you're probably not half the ninja you think you are. I agree with this. Wasn't there a thread floating around here a little while ago where a bad guy with a knife killed three or four armed cops? IIRC the thread was a link to a video of the attack. I didn't watch it, after you see a few dead people you don't want to see any more, I don't anyway. With so much MMA and fighting on TV these days I think more people will get hurt trying to fight, when giving up their wallet, watch etc etc would have been the better idea. I'm glad your BIL came away ok. I know if it were me, I would have given up my wallet. I'm all for self defense, but knowing when to fold em will get you to the next sunrise more often than not IMHO. M |
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Your brother-in-law handled it just about right. You, on the other hand, sound like you'd have gotten yourself royally fucked up (or killed) if it had been you. Life isn't a martial arts movie, and you're probably not half the ninja you think you are. I agree with this. Wasn't there a thread floating around here a little while ago where a bad guy with a knife killed three or four armed cops? IIRC the thread was a link to a video of the attack. I didn't watch it, after you see a few dead people you don't want to see any more, I don't anyway. With so much MMA and fighting on TV these days I think more people will get hurt trying to fight, when giving up their wallet, watch etc etc would have been the better idea. I'm glad your BIL came away ok. I know if it were me, I would have given up my wallet. I'm all for self defense, but knowing when to fold em will get you to the next sunrise more often than not IMHO. M When I was a teenager I took on a guy with a knife bare handed. I lived to tell the tale, but have the scars to prove what a stupid idea it was (and a near miss on a major –– brachial –– artery that would have probably resulted in my bleeding out before I could get medical attention). At the time I trained continuously and fought in tournaments whenever I could. I'm in full support of ventilating a bad guy if you can open up the distance, but getting in a hand-to-hand tussle or a knife fight you'd better have no other option because you will get cut. |
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Your brother-in-law handled it just about right. You, on the other hand, sound like you'd have gotten yourself royally fucked up (or killed) if it had been you. Life isn't a martial arts movie, and you're probably not half the ninja you think you are. This. By the time you are cornered by someone with a knife your best bet for getting out uninjured is fast talking. The only "move" i would make in that situation is to take the cash out of the wallet and throw it on the ground in front of the guy while taking off running. |
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Sometimes you are just screwed, and going John Wayne is not an option. Giving up the wallet was probably the only thing to do.
On the other hand, the bad guy might have intended to kill his victim. You just can't know. This is why I wonder why people don't carry a screwdriver or something as a last ditch weapon. I truly hate the politicians in these areas that don't give a damn about the people who live and work there while they ride in limo's with security. Fuck NYC and Bloomberg, and the whole lot. |
| I've seen a lot of people who can't carry a firearm or knife with them that carry a monkey fist on a braided piece of about 3' 550 cord. The center of the monkey ball is usually a large ball bearing. I would imagine slapping a BG in the bean with it as hard as you can swing would force said BG to find a softer target. |
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I've seen a lot of people who can't carry a firearm or knife with them that carry a monkey fist on a braided piece of about 3' 550 cord. The center of the monkey ball is usually a large ball bearing. I would imagine slapping a BG in the bean with it as hard as you can swing would force said BG to find a softer target. That would probably qualify as a slungshot, or possibly a slap or sap. Those folks might want to reconsider carrying that sort of thing S 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when: (1) He or she possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, plastic knuckles, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or.... Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A misdemeanor. http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm?zoom_highlight=slungshot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slungshot |
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If you look like you are going to be a victim, you will be one. That goes both for Ninja and Give Ins a like. It isn't that gun that will save you but your attitude. You won't be able to draw that gun any quicker than what this kid could have pulled a knife. The answer to "I'll stick you." is "I've been stuck before." That's not Ninja, that's just being a man. There are no tricks or gimmicks and if you are going to live in a high crime area, you either trust to luck or toughen yourself up. If the bad guy is worried about you, he won't be worrying about your wallet. Yes, 3 times attempted mugging. 3 times, the guy had better things to do than risk our lives. It was his call. Having his way with me, that just wasn't an option. We wear who we are in the way we do everything, not in our pockets. Showing confidence and being calm when you want to either lunge or hide, does more to prevent or end a situation than doing either of the other two. Maybe I'm just old school but since I learned this, I've traveled the world without muggings while many I know going the same places I do have been mugged. You don't have to outrun the bear, just your buddy. Sound crazy? Here's a truism, people don't screw with crazy people Tj. Tj Good advice, If your BIL is serious and committed to it a krav maga class would be good, a good program deals with the mental aspect of self defense and also situational awareness. Although that option is only for someone who wants to train seriously. Taking a class or two will only give you a false sense of security. |
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If you look like you are going to be a victim, you will be one. That goes both for Ninja and Give Ins a like. It isn't that gun that will save you but your attitude. You won't be able to draw that gun any quicker than what this kid could have pulled a knife. The answer to "I'll stick you." is "I've been stuck before." That's not Ninja, that's just being a man. There are no tricks or gimmicks and if you are going to live in a high crime area, you either trust to luck or toughen yourself up. If the bad guy is worried about you, he won't be worrying about your wallet. Yes, 3 times attempted mugging. 3 times, the guy had better things to do than risk our lives. It was his call. Having his way with me, that just wasn't an option. We wear who we are in the way we do everything, not in our pockets. Showing confidence and being calm when you want to either lunge or hide, does more to prevent or end a situation than doing either of the other two. Maybe I'm just old school but since I learned this, I've traveled the world without muggings while many I know going the same places I do have been mugged. You don't have to outrun the bear, just your buddy. Sound crazy? Here's a truism, people don't screw with crazy people Tj. Tj Not to disparage your alpha-wolf stare or anything, but I suspect you've also been somewhat lucky. The kind of person that'd hit you upside the head with a baseball bat for your wallet generally doesn't give a crap how tough you are. Your core point is, however, valid. |
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Vengarr has correctly nailed the situation, IMHO.
I was a cop for 26 years. During that time we probably saw 2-300 training films, and I did all the SWAT, Tactical training etc schools I could talk the bosses into, I also ran the FTO program. One film on edged weapons I saw became a staple for our FTO program. Every recruit I put through that program for the 5 years I ran it sat down with their FTO and watched it. It was called, "Surviving Edged Weapons"...and it was nothing if not an eye opener. The instructor on that film could stand 20 ft, from an officer who was carrying a holstered weapon in a standard duty rig and charge the cop, pull a knife and attack him before the cop could clear leather and get a shot off. The film demonstrated this repeatedly, again and again. An attacker who has been allowed to enter your threat zone and pull a knife as been allowed to get too close. Engaging a suspect with a drawn edged weapon when you have no weapon, or worse yet a weapon and no training, is a losing game in almost all instances. If you are going to carry a weapon, make it an effective one and learn how the hell to use it, then train your mind and body to support the use of said weapon. The absolute best way to not get into one of these situations is to not put yourself in one in the first place, by that I mean plan your route, watch for exits, avoid trap areas, and really, really concentrate on threat analysis.. |
If you don't like your BIL, you did him a "favor" by giving him a knife. If he has no training and confronted at bad breath distance, he will not fair well. I have played that game w/ a training knife back in the day. I always got tagged. As far as size goes, I am a larger than average guy and spent enough hours in the gym to equal a part time job when I was younger. The one guy I knew back then, that I absolutely would not want to "meet in a dark ally", was a 148'er. AFAIC he did a good job and came home alive.
FB |
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If you look like you are going to be a victim, you will be one. That goes both for Ninja and Give Ins a like. It isn't that gun that will save you but your attitude. You won't be able to draw that gun any quicker than what this kid could have pulled a knife. The answer to "I'll stick you." is "I've been stuck before." That's not Ninja, that's just being a man. There are no tricks or gimmicks and if you are going to live in a high crime area, you either trust to luck or toughen yourself up. If the bad guy is worried about you, he won't be worrying about your wallet. Yes, 3 times attempted mugging. 3 times, the guy had better things to do than risk our lives. It was his call. Having his way with me, that just wasn't an option. We wear who we are in the way we do everything, not in our pockets. Showing confidence and being calm when you want to either lunge or hide, does more to prevent or end a situation than doing either of the other two. Maybe I'm just old school but since I learned this, I've traveled the world without muggings while many I know going the same places I do have been mugged. You don't have to outrun the bear, just your buddy. Sound crazy? Here's a truism, people don't screw with crazy people Tj. Tj Not to disparage your alpha-wolf stare or anything, but I suspect you've also been somewhat lucky. The kind of person that'd hit you upside the head with a baseball bat for your wallet generally doesn't give a crap how tough you are. Your core point is, however, valid. The part you haven't learned yet is both John Wayne and Richard Simmons approaches to confrontation are the wrong tacts. Both can and do get people smacked upside the head, one for being stupid enough to trust someone crazy enough to wield a weapon to take peoples money and the other stupid enough to challenge the same type persons perception of authority evoking violent emotion. The best battles are the ones not fought. There's no luck to that. Its simply accepting being a mugger isn't a the sign of high IQ and knowing you are smarter than that. Its a matter of making yourself the undesirable target with the criminal opting for someone easier while not backing your opponent into a corner, physically or emotionally. My last confrontation was last month. I've lived in three major US cities, one at the time the highest crime rate in the US. I travel the world for living, my nights spent in bars. I've done business and partied down by the projects the South Side of Chicago and the Barrio down by the ship channel in Houston TX. The two biggest mistakes people make are in thinking when this happens, its going to be telescoped like a neon sign and/or if I give them what they want they'll leave me a lone. 9 out of 10 times its going to be in your face before you know it for surely its a fool that sees it coming and does nothing and dead men make very poor witnesses and a hurt man slow to respond to anything immediately afterwards. . This is a gun forum, not everyone on here owns a gun just to shoot paper targets. Some of us have them also for self defense. Some of us have been there enough times to know the odds of us getting the first move is nil to none. By definition the bad guy gets the first move and if our attitude is give them what they want, we're idiots for carrying a gun for surely that's the wrong thing to give them. Its not a matter of being Alpha or Beta, bad ass mean or whimpy metrosexual but .a matter of knowing your odds are best neither saying "Hit me MFer" or "Please take whatever you want". It lies in not being the chosen victim in the first place and that begins with an attitude of "Not on my watch.". Cops live this life and do this all the time in uniform or not. Its a matter of control. Yes, there are times you won't have any choice in the matter but seldom will it be a lone guy with a knife. Its not even an issue of taking it away or teaching somebody you don't even know, don't care to know, some sort of school ground lesson. Its a matter of extracting yourself from a situation without getting hurt or handing your life over to some drug addict in the hope he has some sort of compassion. Its a matter of neither angering some mugger or empowering them over you. Yes, the kid did good. He talked his way out. The lesson he needs to learn is get to the point you don't have to talk your way out and that comes from not being but giving the impression, "Yea though I walk through the valley I will fear no evil for I am the evilest son of bitch in the valley." That comes from a calm, "Not again and not happening". You don't have to prove it. You don't even have to project it. You just have to project the suspicion you may be. Often that's as simple as a look in the eye and calm smile. Sometimes its a calm "Not today" or a "Shake of the head." Hell one time, five gangers feeling up two little girls on the subway, I asked them if what their moms would think. 
What badguys fear is not anger or capitulation but what all people fear, the unknown. You learn to be that, the off duty cop to the crazy old man. Tj |
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Very salient points have been made. 21 foot rule applies even on a train, and you don't always get to choose how close to people you must be. And it's never good to rely on the number of people around, as most of the population will cower in the corner and watch a woman be violently raped rather than risk involvement. (as per the news). So, if you live in a place where violence is the language, learn to speak it or get used to the prospects of victim-hood. That being said, just like being in a rolling car, even with all of your safety equipment engaged, the end result is always a crap shoot. All you can do is tilt the odds in your favor. Some points I've learned in my ill-spent life, and some tricks I've been told by those who've lived even iller-spent lives and somehow lived to tell the tales. TJ is correct with the crazy man approach. A fella I knew who called the Cook County Jail his summer home once told me that if I ever found myself a resident that the first day was the most important. "If somebody says it's a nice day out, and there's even a cloud in the sky," he told me, "start beating on him, and don't stop until they pull you off. When you get out of the cage, everybody else will leave you alone." Fortunately for me, I never had to try it out, but he'd been there and had the scars to prove it. Once you learn to look like a predator, the other predators give you longer looks before they try to feed. If you can find that balance between weakness and open challenge, it's a rare one who'll try you "just for practice." Fear is honey to these crumbs, bluster is challenge or comedy, depending on how well you pull it off. Calm is unnerving, because they can't figure out why the knife/club/gun isn't working all of a sudden, and the general line of thought is that you've got something up your sleeve that isn't showing. If you can keep your voice conversational, you're on the front foot. If they get close enough to touch and have a weapon out and you decide to fight, you will get cut/clobbered/shot. Guaranteed. When that happens, remember that in most cases, it'll take a minute or so for your body to get the message to your conscious mind that it's happened. Use that time. Have a weapon in your hand ALL THE TIME!!!! When I was young, and the environment wasn't the master of us all, I carried a glass pop bottle with me everywhere. Later, when refillable glass became bad for us, I had to get more creative. Now that I'm old, I carry a fighting stick disguised as a cane. I've even learned to limp convincingly (okay, age helped there). Recently, when confronting a drunk who'd punched the back window out of my van looking for goodies, the summoned police decided that my having a holstered pistol posed some sort of threat to them, despite my having been the one who called them. They disarmed me forthwith, but ignored the stick in my hand. If you choose to use a stick, fachrissake, learn to use it! I've carried that thing into courtrooms, Post offices, police stations, airports, and even into the state legislature and onto the local Air Force base right through the security checkpoints. Remember, the one time Musashi got beat, it was by a guy with a stick. Burner wallet is a fine and wondrous idea. But don't count on it. I know a guy, even a hard assed looking guy, who handed over his wallet to some goons in Houston and got stabbed anyway. By the time he woke up in the hospital three days later, he'd lost his job, his truck, and a good chunk of his stomach. Be ready for them to come in even after they get what they want. Tell yourself that you're going to survive. Tell them that same thing, if you feel like it. I've actually had that work once. Not that I'd rely on it happening again. IF you must use a knife (and I never do, as I can't/won't take the time to train with it) forget that French Foreign legion crap about a razor sharp edge. The most dangerous man I've ever known let me in on a secret. A good, clean, cut will bleed a guy out, but a ripping tear will get his attention. Sharpen your blade on a bench grinder. Make it a nasty, gouging, saw edge that you wouldn't want anybody you know to see. Remember that space of time you get when you're cut before you actually feel it? This shortens that considerably, and makes the wound feel much more serious than it really is. Make the troll unable to ignore his own pain, he might choose to end the encounter before either of you dies. But, to reiterate–– crapshoot. |
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I had my G21 on me at all times when we visited that fair city in the north. Illegal? Yes. I was on a 4 day vacation with my wife and kids.....given the choice of jail/prison (I go to prison every day ) or standing by while my family member is harmed....well, I won't ever choose wrong on that one. TJ and I are in the same zip code on this. I have seen this my whole life and for the last 18 years or so I have seen this play out every day at work. I make a practice of letting those animals know who is in charge and laugh at their silly gangs and mommas. If you haven't been there, well, it sounds crazy - but I do know they think I'm nuts. You have to know your limits and situation, but after all these years you can smell problems and you get a reputation. I haven't had to "prove" myself in about 3 years...but I am ready every day - all day.
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| Tell him to ride in the car that the conductor rides in. If he's waiting in the station, hang out by the cash booth. Buy pepper spray(NY legal of course), and avoid looking like a target. On the subway, that means no headphones, no talking on the phone, no texting and no sitting when you're one of the only ones on the train. Look bored but alert. |
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Action beats reaction.
Having somebody in tight confines with a knife at the ready isn't the most comfortable or best of situations if you know what I mean. Mindset above all else with an awareness of the surroundings. That could have helped prevented the situation or alerted your brother to the threat before the guy ever got that close. |
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If you look like you are going to be a victim, you will be one. That goes both for Ninja and Give Ins a like. It isn't that gun that will save you but your attitude. You won't be able to draw that gun any quicker than what this kid could have pulled a knife. The answer to "I'll stick you." is "I've been stuck before." That's not Ninja, that's just being a man. There are no tricks or gimmicks and if you are going to live in a high crime area, you either trust to luck or toughen yourself up. If the bad guy is worried about you, he won't be worrying about your wallet. Yes, 3 times attempted mugging. 3 times, the guy had better things to do than risk our lives. It was his call. Having his way with me, that just wasn't an option. We wear who we are in the way we do everything, not in our pockets. Showing confidence and being calm when you want to either lunge or hide, does more to prevent or end a situation than doing either of the other two. Maybe I'm just old school but since I learned this, I've traveled the world without muggings while many I know going the same places I do have been mugged. You don't have to outrun the bear, just your buddy. Sound crazy? Here's a truism, people don't screw with crazy people Tj. Tj Not to disparage your alpha-wolf stare or anything, but I suspect you've also been somewhat lucky. The kind of person that'd hit you upside the head with a baseball bat for your wallet generally doesn't give a crap how tough you are. Your core point is, however, valid. The part you haven't learned yet is both John Wayne and Richard Simmons approaches to confrontation are the wrong tacts. Both can and do get people smacked upside the head, one for being stupid enough to trust someone crazy enough to wield a weapon to take peoples money and the other stupid enough to challenge the same type persons perception of authority evoking violent emotion. The best battles are the ones not fought. There's no luck to that. Its simply accepting being a mugger isn't a the sign of high IQ and knowing you are smarter than that. Its a matter of making yourself the undesirable target with the criminal opting for someone easier while not backing your opponent into a corner, physically or emotionally. My last confrontation was last month. I've lived in three major US cities, one at the time the highest crime rate in the US. I travel the world for living, my nights spent in bars. I've done business and partied down by the projects the South Side of Chicago and the Barrio down by the ship channel in Houston TX. The two biggest mistakes people make are in thinking when this happens, its going to be telescoped like a neon sign and/or if I give them what they want they'll leave me a lone. 9 out of 10 times its going to be in your face before you know it for surely its a fool that sees it coming and does nothing and dead men make very poor witnesses and a hurt man slow to respond to anything immediately afterwards. . This is a gun forum, not everyone on here owns a gun just to shoot paper targets. Some of us have them also for self defense. Some of us have been there enough times to know the odds of us getting the first move is nil to none. By definition the bad guy gets the first move and if our attitude is give them what they want, we're idiots for carrying a gun for surely that's the wrong thing to give them. Its not a matter of being Alpha or Beta, bad ass mean or whimpy metrosexual but .a matter of knowing your odds are best neither saying "Hit me MFer" or "Please take whatever you want". It lies in not being the chosen victim in the first place and that begins with an attitude of "Not on my watch.". Cops live this life and do this all the time in uniform or not. Its a matter of control. Yes, there are times you won't have any choice in the matter but seldom will it be a lone guy with a knife. Its not even an issue of taking it away or teaching somebody you don't even know, don't care to know, some sort of school ground lesson. Its a matter of extracting yourself from a situation without getting hurt or handing your life over to some drug addict in the hope he has some sort of compassion. Its a matter of neither angering some mugger or empowering them over you. Yes, the kid did good. He talked his way out. The lesson he needs to learn is get to the point you don't have to talk your way out and that comes from not being but giving the impression, "Yea though I walk through the valley I will fear no evil for I am the evilest son of bitch in the valley." That comes from a calm, "Not again and not happening". You don't have to prove it. You don't even have to project it. You just have to project the suspicion you may be. Often that's as simple as a look in the eye and calm smile. Sometimes its a calm "Not today" or a "Shake of the head." Hell one time, five gangers feeling up two little girls on the subway, I asked them if what their moms would think.
What badguys fear is not anger or capitulation but what all people fear, the unknown. You learn to be that, the off duty cop to the crazy old man. Tj There is much wisdom in this post. |
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Your brother carrying that knife is a tragedy waiting to happen. If another mugger has a knife out and your brother goes for a knife that he has no idea how to deploy or use correctly he is going to get cut to shit and either die or be all fucked up. Your brother failed in spatial and situational awareness. A weapon means jack shit if you don't know when a situation is happening in which you need to use it. Fail. Too late. Better get some training. |