Posted: 9/7/2011 6:36:03 AM EDT
|
We were without power for 5 days after Hurricane Irene (Long Island, NY). Fortunately, I had a 5500W homelite generator that I bought about 10 years ago (after the Y2K hysteria, when I could get a great deal). It saved the week.
With that said, I never realized how much gasoline I would go through with such a small generator. The burn rate was probably around 5 gallons per 7-8 hours, which had me using around 10 gallons per day. This wasn't a problem since all the gas stations had power, but it opened my eyes to the potential for a problem in a larger, system wide blackout. Even using the gas in the tanks of my cars, I would probably only get a few days of use. I don't have natural gas service in my neighborhood, so I started looking at diesel generators. The burn rate is fractional to that of gas powered engines (1/2 gal/hour), for around the same wattage. Also, I have a 275 gallon tank for heating oil, and most of the diesels can run #2 fuel oil as well as diesel. This all gets me to my question...are there any cheaper brands that use chineese engines which are OK? Buying a unit with a domestically manufacturered diesel engine is not an option based on the high cost. Likewise, I was looking at the surplus MEP units, but I'm concerned about getting a good one and working on them in a breakdown. How are brands like ETQ (eastern tool and equipment), which is carried by home depot? They go for the sub $1,000's. What about DuroStar? All Power American? Any other less expensive diesel generator mfg's that anyone has positive (or negative) experience with? |
|
Tag because I've been thinking about one, too.
Gas generators are made to run tools for a few hours, not to power houses for days. They don't hold up well under extended use, and as you discovered, they use a lot of a fuel that's difficult and dangerous to store. Don't know much about propane. Been looking at Kubotas, but dang they're expensive. Still, you get what you pay for. Buy quality and cry once. Not sure I'd trust the made-in-China off-brands. |
|
Quoted:
Been looking at Kubotas, but dang they're expensive. Still, you get what you pay for. Buy quality and cry once. Not sure I'd trust the made-in-China off-brands. I tend to agree, but power outages here are rare. This is the first time in the 12 years I've been in my house that the power was out for more than a few hours. I need to weigh the cost/utility factor. If I can find an inexpensive diesel that has a good warranty program, or that people have good experience with, I'd look to that one. ETQ seems to be pretty popular and has a national warranty program, but I haven't spoken with anyone that has experience with their diesels. |
|
I have built up two generator sets using Lister CS slow speed diesel engines. Lister is a British company that stopped building them in the 80's but the Indians have been copying them and are producing good engines now.
Not an out of the box, plug and play, but a very interesting project. Big users are in the Amish community. Here are a couple of pictures; This 6-1 (6hp 1 cylinder) will produce 4KW all day long on about 3 gallons of diesel. http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x161/rleonard1/Lister%206-1%20Engine/DSC_0145.jpg For periods of greater demand, I use a 16/2 that will deliver about 12KW on 7-10 gallons per day at full output http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x161/rleonard1/Lister%2016-2%20Engine/MVC-059S.jpg Bob |
|
Quoted:
I have built up two generator sets using Lister CS slow speed diesel engines. Lister is a British company that stopped building them in the 80's but the Indians have been copying them and are producing good engines now. <snip> Outstanding! Those things are works of art! As far as the cheaper diesel units go, my understanding is that a lot of them are 3600 RPM units which diminishes the longer service life that diesels are famous for. The nice units, like the Kubotas and Onans, etc., are 1800 RPM. Correct me if I'm wrong there....it's been a while since I researched the issue. This page, FWIW, praises the ETQ unit. |
|
Quoted: I have built up two generator sets using Lister CS slow speed diesel engines. Lister is a British company that stopped building them in the 80's but the Indians have been copying them and are producing good engines now. Not an out of the box, plug and play, but a very interesting project. Big users are in the Amish community. Here are a couple of pictures; This 6-1 (6hp 1 cylinder) will produce 4KW all day long on about 3 gallons of diesel. http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x161/rleonard1/Lister%206-1%20Engine/DSC_0145.jpg For periods of greater demand, I use a 16/2 that will deliver about 12KW on 7-10 gallons per day at full output http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x161/rleonard1/Lister%2016-2%20Engine/MVC-059S.jpg Bob I've always been interested in these, but I thought the EPA banned them from import a while back.....? |
| FWIW, we have a portable 12.5 kW Onan diesel unit that uses very little fuel. The downside of it is if you don't run it often enough the fuel and filters become a problem. I know about the fuel stabilizers and such but if your not going to use it often..just saying. We ended up putting in a 12.5 KW automatic standby unit that runs on propane (dryer, hot water heater) so we have a large tank for fuel already. The unit exercises itself for 10 mins every Saturday so reliability is not a issue. As one of my preps I also have 2 100lb LP tanks in the shed. Don't take this the wrong way as diesel gen sets are great but it has been my experience that you have to use them to avoid problems. YMMV |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have built up two generator sets using Lister CS slow speed diesel engines. Lister is a British company that stopped building them in the 80's but the Indians have been copying them and are producing good engines now. <snip> Outstanding! Those things are works of art! As far as the cheaper diesel units go, my understanding is that a lot of them are 3600 RPM units which diminishes the longer service life that diesels are famous for. The nice units, like the Kubotas and Onans, etc., are 1800 RPM. Correct me if I'm wrong there....it's been a while since I researched the issue. This page, FWIW, praises the ETQ unit. 100% correct! A 3600rpm diesel will get you nothing compared to a gas engine. If the OP is willing to fabricate mounts and minor wiring, a used Onan diesel RV gen set might be affordable for his use. |
|
I was talking to some people about the various lower end generators using chinese engines and the general sense I got is that you just need to figure out who they are ripping off. Getting parts from the mfg on many of them is a complete joke and can take months(6 to 8 easy to get parts if they even sell them separate and they will cost a crap load). If you can figure out who they are copying though you can get parts from that vendor or oem replacements.
I know a landscaping company that has used a bunch of honda knock off gas engines for example. Things like the head caskets go quicker but you buy a honda or quality aftermarket and the thing runs fine. The diesel engines should be pretty much the same thing. They are ripping off someone. Figure out who. Chances are the engine will run fine but will generally fail quicker. Usually a few quality part replacements once it has issues will make it run great for a while. |
|
the 3600 vs 1800 RPM question is largely moot from what I have seen. Diesels use less fuel b/c they don't have a throttle plate, engine power is controlled strictly by controlling fuel. Diesels are noisy engines and a 3600 RPM diesel is a screamer.
If you are cycling fuel thru your home heating system, then you won't run into problems with your generator with fuel. BTW, #2 fuel is #2 fuel, the only difference with 'heating oil" is that it has red dye in it to let the revenuers know that road tax has not been paid on it. Diesel is VERY stable in storage, I've used 20 year old fuel with no ill effects. Long storage of diesel that has moisture in it will result in bacterial sludge forming in the water, which is a problem. As before, if you are cycling fuel thru your home heating system, you should be fine. I would look for a mil surplus diesel generator. they are cheaper than comparable commercial generators and much more rugged. The Chinese generators have very iffy QC and reliability. I have a 3.5 kW Chinese gas generator that's about 5 yrs old, have about 50 hours on it, and the generator side has quit working. I haven't finished troubleshooting, it's not a difficult repair but as mentioned above, parts can be a problem. Champion has a parts ordering system in place, so if yo have to buy Chinese, get a Champion. I understand the lure of low prices, but is it worth it to have an entirely unreliable generator? I am gonna fix mine, but if it breaks again it's outta here. YMMV. Ops |
|
I appreciate all the helpful info!
Quoted:
I would look for a mil surplus diesel generator. they are cheaper than comparable commercial generators and much more rugged. Ops I've been looking for MEP's. I'm hesitant to get a govliquidations.com surplus generatior, because if there are problems with it (which I know there will be), i'm not in a position to fix it or get parts for it. It's also very tough to find a 3kw MEP in good condition for sale locally. Does anyone know of a place or person in the NY/NJ/CT/PA area that restores and sells MEP's for a reasonble price??? |
|
Quoted:
I appreciate all the helpful info! Quoted:
I would look for a mil surplus diesel generator. they are cheaper than comparable commercial generators and much more rugged. Ops I've been looking for MEP's. I'm hesitant to get a govliquidations.com surplus generatior, because if there are problems with it (which I know there will be), i'm not in a position to fix it or get parts for it. It's also very tough to find a 3kw MEP in good condition for sale locally. Does anyone know of a place or person in the NY/NJ/CT/PA area that restores and sells MEP's for a reasonble price??? try www.colemans.com. Be advised that Colemans is NOT cheap.. Ops |
|
Quoted:
A 3600rpm diesel will get you nothing compared to a gas engine. If the OP is willing to fabricate mounts and minor wiring, a used Onan diesel RV gen set might be affordable for his use. There is nothing wrong with a 3600 rpm engine, and they are slightly more (5-10%) fuel efficient then 1800 rpm generators. Obviously they don't last as long, but 1800 rpm generators are heavy and mostly not portable (they are transportable- make them into a trailer, or move with a forklift) I've seen dozens of Yanmar generators go 4-5000 hours. Lots of sign boards and runway closing signs are powered by them, and run 8-12 hrs/day. We used to use them for emergency comms (ie flyaway radio sites or microwave repeater), but have switched to Honda inverters because we are usually running a small load, and the Hondas are so light, they we can change them out as a spare part and return for service They only way a diesel won't beat a gas engine for fuel consumption is with inverter models and light loads. Of course a decent (ie Honda) gas engine in quieter, lighter and cheaper then a diesel. |
|
Quoted:
I never realized how much gasoline I would go through with such a small generator. The burn rate was probably around 5 gallons per 7-8 hours The burn rate depends on the size of the load you're powering. A modern generator in a good state of tune will burn around 0.2 gallons of gasoline per hour, per 1,000 watts of power produced - which means that 5 gallons of gas should run your generator for around 25 hours with a load of 1,000 watts. The fact that you were going through that amount of gas in just 7-8 hours indicates that either (1.) you were powering a very large load, or (2.) something is wrong with your generator. Quoted:
Gas generators are made to run tools for a few hours, not to power houses for days. Even the bargain-basement gasoline generators have engines with cast-iron cylinder liners that are designed to run for 500+ hours between overhauls. Most models will run for thousands to tens of thousands of hours between overhauls. |
|
Quoted:
We were without power for 5 days after Hurricane Irene (Long Island, NY). Fortunately, I had a 5500W homelite generator that I bought about 10 years ago (after the Y2K hysteria, when I could get a great deal). It saved the week. With that said, I never realized how much gasoline I would go through with such a small generator. The burn rate was probably around 5 gallons per 7-8 hours, which had me using around 10 gallons per day. This wasn't a problem since all the gas stations had power, but it opened my eyes to the potential for a problem in a larger, system wide blackout. Even using the gas in the tanks of my cars, I would probably only get a few days of use. I don't have natural gas service in my neighborhood, so I started looking at diesel generators. The burn rate is fractional to that of gas powered engines (1/2 gal/hour), for around the same wattage. Also, I have a 275 gallon tank for heating oil, and most of the diesels can run #2 fuel oil as well as diesel. This all gets me to my question...are there any cheaper brands that use chineese engines which are OK? Buying a unit with a domestically manufacturered diesel engine is not an option based on the high cost. Likewise, I was looking at the surplus MEP units, but I'm concerned about getting a good one and working on them in a breakdown. How are brands like ETQ (eastern tool and Your 5kw genny was a gas hog. We bought a 5kw husky, it ran 75% power, and would burn 5 gallons every 12 hours. We bought it from lowes, or home depot for about $500 bucks. equipment), which is carried by home depot? They go for the sub $1,000's. What about DuroStar? All Power American? Any other less expensive diesel generator mfg's that anyone has positive (or negative) experience with? |
|
Quoted:
Even the bargain-basement gasoline generators have engines with cast-iron cylinder liners that are designed to run for 500+ hours between overhauls. Most models will run for thousands to tens of thousands of hours between overhauls. 500 hours is three weeks. |
|
How is the reliability on some of the RV diesel generators? Would it be possible to get a 7-8KW diesel setup from an RV "junkyard" (if such exists?) and would it be as reliable as some of the older MEPs?
It would be worth it to me to get one (if the price was right) and pay to have it professionally gone through, as I'm seeing close to $7K for the cost of a new 7kw diesel gennie (Kubota). I'd like to stay around $2500 or less. I'm pretty sold on the idea. I've used gas gennies in the past with great success, but if I can get a used diesel gennie for the price of a new gas gennie, I'd go that route in a heartbeat. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even the bargain-basement gasoline generators have engines with cast-iron cylinder liners that are designed to run for 500+ hours between overhauls. Most models will run for thousands to tens of thousands of hours between overhauls. 500 hours is three weeks. It's 12 weeks, if you run it 6 hours per day. If you feel the need to run a generator 24/7 for 3 weeks straight, you're doing something wrong. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even the bargain-basement gasoline generators have engines with cast-iron cylinder liners that are designed to run for 500+ hours between overhauls. Most models will run for thousands to tens of thousands of hours between overhauls. 500 hours is three weeks. It's 12 weeks, if you run it 6 hours per day. If you feel the need to run a generator 24/7 for 3 weeks straight, you're doing something wrong. I'd like a generator that will last even longer than twelve weeks. |
|
Quoted:
How is the reliability on some of the RV diesel generators? Would it be possible to get a 7-8KW diesel setup from an RV "junkyard" (if such exists?) and would it be as reliable as some of the older MEPs? It would be worth it to me to get one (if the price was right) and pay to have it professionally gone through, as I'm seeing close to $7K for the cost of a new 7kw diesel gennie (Kubota). I'd like to stay around $2500 or less. I'm pretty sold on the idea. I've used gas gennies in the past with great success, but if I can get a used diesel gennie for the price of a new gas gennie, I'd go that route in a heartbeat. I think considering a used diesel RV genny is very worthwhile. Also, a light tower off ebay with a 3 cylinder 6 kw 1800 rpm diesel is good to. The RV ones are likely quieter. I picked up a 0 time light tower w/ a 3 cyl Cat engine and expect it to run long after I'm gone. Later I picked up an MQ 20+ kw UltraQuiet genny with a 4 cyl Izusu engine with ~ 8000 hrs just to power occassion heavy and 3 phase loads and it should have a lot of life left in it as I've seen some examples with about 20,000 hrs on ebay that still ran. Both are of recent mfgr, small, on trailers and easy to move and have plenty of on-board fuel storage. I wouldn't think they are the best choice of a tight residential area, but if you have some space, I think they are close to ideal. |
|
Quoted:
I never realized how much gasoline I would go through with such a small generator. The burn rate was probably around 5 gallons per 7-8 hours, which had me using around 10 gallons per day. The burn rate is fractional to that of gas powered engines (1/2 gal/hour), for around the same wattage. There should not be all that much difference between a diesel and a gas generator on the fuel usage side. Diesel has more BTUs per gallon, but it is not like 10X difference. Diesel is a little more efficient as well. However, since the OP has a storage tank of safe fuel already, diesel probably makes a lot more sense for him than gas anyway. 5 gallons of gas in 8 hours is not all that much difference from 1/2 gallon per hour (4 gallons in 8 hours). A guy I knew was going through about a gallon of gas every 8-10 hours during an outage not long ago. he was running a small one 24/7 and alternating between his freezer and fridge. |
|
Something everyone who plans on running a freeze/frig should consider is a means to monitor their internal temperature without opening the door.
There are $25 dual wireless freezer frig temperature thermometers with settable alarms that would indicate when to start up the genny to cool down the respective one. [I use one to monitor the solar powered frig and freezer -they work great and have many other uses as well] They are on ebay with free shipping. I'll bet that much fuel is wasted becasue folks are running gennys more than is really necessary for lack of instrumentation. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even the bargain-basement gasoline generators have engines with cast-iron cylinder liners that are designed to run for 500+ hours between overhauls. Most models will run for thousands to tens of thousands of hours between overhauls. 500 hours is three weeks. It's 12 weeks, if you run it 6 hours per day. If you feel the need to run a generator 24/7 for 3 weeks straight, you're doing something wrong. I'd like a generator that will last even longer than twelve weeks. 12 weeks is a lifetime of hurricanes - or several lifetimes of 1- or 2-day power outages. If gasoline-fueled generators were unsuitable for powering households, they wouldn't be the overwhelming favorite for that exact application. |
|
Quoted: Something everyone who plans on running a freeze/frig should consider is a means to monitor their internal temperature without opening the door. There are $25 dual wireless freezer frig temperature thermometers with settable alarms that would indicate when to start up the genny to cool down the respective one. [I use one to monitor the solar powered frig and freezer -they work great and have many other uses as well] They are on ebay with free shipping. I'll bet that much fuel is wasted becasue folks are running gennys more than is really necessary for lack of instrumentation. Expy, Could you post a link to one of these? Thanks, -Slice |
|
There's 2 wireless ones the 985 and the 986.
Here's the 985, search wireless freezer alarm for the other... Work great for indoor, outdoor, root cellar, dead hooker cooler, etc... Freezer alarm 
|