Posted: 7/9/2011 12:07:53 PM EDT
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Need some electrical help
My house has a 220 dryer female receptacle outside – it was used to connect a generator to power the house when grid power went down – my new generator has only 30 amp and 15 amp 110 female receptacles to power things – can I plug the 110 30 amp receptacle into this to run some things in the house – I also think there are 4 wires (not sure) in the 220 female receptacle – can I plug a 3 wire 110 30 amp plug from the generator to the 4 wire (not sure if it is 4 wire without taking it apart) outside dryer plug receptacle to run 110 power through the 220 breaker to some things in the house when power is off. – of course I will take the electrical meter base off if I ever do this in addition to turning the main breaker off. I am not much of an electrician but I can run wires and hook them into my power box breakers. Here is some more info - the wire from the outside receptacle to the dryer plug is 6 guage dryer wire - the wire from the dryer receptacle is 8 guage to the breaker box - |
| that would be nice BBsound - but I dont have any money to do what you want me to do - the system as is worked for 12 years so why should I spend money i dont have to change it - i just want to know if what i asked is workable - plus my 20 circuit breaker box has no more room to add another high dollar breaker. |
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You could do it. But you would need to know some about electricity before you could do it. At this point it might be better to get some extension cords and a splitter or two and just expect to run some cords during a power outage.
If you have some electrical buddies they could show you but the extension cord/splitter idea would be cheaper and with less headaches. |
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At this point it might be better to get some extension cords and a splitter or two and just expect to run some cords during a power outage. If you have some electrical buddies they could show you but the extension cord/splitter idea would be cheaper and with less headaches.
This is your answer. The dryer receptacle should be 4 wire, with 2 being 120VAC, 1 being neutral, and 1 being ground. The hot legs are generally rated at 30A per leg on this configuration. The 120 legs are used individually against neutral to provide 120VAC for the drum motor, blower, and controls. The heating element requires 240VAC, so both hot (120v) legs are used with no neutral. The Phase Angle (ø) results in 240VAC. ETA: To answer your original question; you could assemble an S/O cord with 120V 30A male twist lock on one end to connect to the generator, and a 4 pole dryer plug on the other end. You would only use one of the 120 legs on the dryer plug, and whichever side of the panel that line ultimately terminates at would determine which circuits in your house would be hot. If you should decide to go this route (which I don't advise), make sure you use no lighter than 8/3 S/O or S/J cord, and a length of no more than 20 ft. You may well wind up running extension cords inside the house anyway. TAKE NOTICE: WHATEVER YOU DECIDE TO DO, DISCONNECT YOUR HOME'S POWER AT-THE-MAIN, BEFORE CONNECTING YOUR GENNY TO ANYTHING. ALSO BE SURE THE GENNY IS PROPERLY GROUNDED TO YOUR HOME'S SYSTEM. |
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Quoted: Need some electrical help My house has a 220 dryer female receptacle outside – it was used to connect a generator to power the house when grid power went down – my new generator has only 30 amp and 15 amp 110 female receptacles to power things – can I plug the 110 30 amp receptacle into this to run some things in the house – I also think there are 4 wires (not sure) in the 220 female receptacle – can I plug a 3 wire 110 30 amp plug from the generator to the 4 wire (not sure if it is 4 wire without taking it apart) outside dryer plug receptacle to run 110 power through the 220 breaker to some things in the house when power is off. – of course I will take the electrical meter base off if I ever do this in addition to turning the main breaker off. I am not much of an electrician but I can run wires and hook them into my power box breakers. Here is some more info - the wire from the outside receptacle to the dryer plug is 6 guage dryer wire - the wire from the dryer receptacle is 8 guage to the breaker box - You dont need electrical help. You need to go and buy a few heavy duty electrical cords and run your stuff that way. Dont mess around with trying to convert your dryer plug, you could KILL your family or self. |
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You dont need electrical help. You need to go and buy a few heavy duty electrical cords and run your stuff that way. Dont mess around with trying to convert your dryer plug, you could KILL your family or self. This. You could also kill someone else. What you are suggesting doing results in the death of a utility lineman every few years. Just run some extension cords from the generator to whatever you need to power. You probably already have them. That is a safe way to handle the problem, and is also the least expensive solution. |
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Nice story. To the OP. If you want to do this the easy way then buy some extension cords. If you are dead set on hooking up the generator to the the outside plug then please do the following. 1) Buy an interlock kit. This will require you to move the breaker for the outside connection to the top of your panel if it isn't there already. Post a picture of your box and you can be guided towards which one to buy. 2) Buy an approved outside male connector for the generator to get rid of the suicide cord. Then get some SO cord and the plugs needed. 3a) Since your generator isn't 240v you won't be able to run any of your appliances that have a double pole breaker. If the cord is wired "properly" you will only be able to energize one side or the other of your panel. Look and see if it is feasible to make due with one side or the other of your box energized. 3b) You could try to power both sides of the panel with 120v but it will be very important to shut off all your 240v (double pole) breakers. I'm also assuming you will be short on wattage if the generator is small enough to not have a 240v recep. Grove |
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My biggest concern with this is having a cable sitting arround with the two lines shorted together. Backfeeding can be done safely, you just have to ba careful. There are far more (true) horror stories of people who keep loaded guns in there house.
I've backfed plenty of 208 or 240 panels with 110V, but it was done with wire, and when I finished there was nothing left to make it easer for the next person to tie the two lines together accidentally. Almost every construction site I've worked on at some point you energise 208V lighting panels with 20V single phase so you have lights as sheetrock goes up. The safest way to do this is usually to run say 10/4 to the pannel, tie L1 to L1, and L2 to L2 and L3, and only turn on the lighting breakers, and lock the panel. As to the story linked to above, I don't believe it for an instant. Part of it might be true, but it sounds a whole lot more like a scare sell for transfer switches. It's easy enough to endanger a lineman working on your drop, but you generator can't backfeed the whole neighborhood, this would both kill the generator and trip the breaker to which it was attached. Ditto, it the lineman re energized the section and it blew the fuse at distribution voltage, it would have melted the wire and tripped the breaker of the generator or even the whole house. A generator that turns into a motor does something mechanical, not go wump (though this might cause a fire.) Usually winding are destroyed or a shaft is damaged. I used to have a cool picture of a 24 in shaft that was sheared off in a hydro plant in India. |
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My biggest concern with this is having a cable sitting arround with the two lines shorted together. Backfeeding can be done safely, you just have to ba careful. There are far more (true) horror stories of people who keep loaded guns in there house. I've backfed plenty of 208 or 240 panels with 110V, but it was done with wire, and when I finished there was nothing left to make it easer for the next person to tie the two lines together accidentally. Almost every construction site I've worked on at some point you energise 208V lighting panels with 20V single phase so you have lights as sheetrock goes up. The safest way to do this is usually to run say 10/4 to the pannel, tie L1 to L1, and L2 to L2 and L3, and only turn on the lighting breakers, and lock the panel. As to the story linked to above, I don't believe it for an instant. Part of it might be true, but it sounds a whole lot more like a scare sell for transfer switches. It's easy enough to endanger a lineman working on your drop, but you generator can't backfeed the whole neighborhood, this would both kill the generator and trip the breaker to which it was attached. Ditto, it the lineman re energized the section and it blew the fuse at distribution voltage, it would have melted the wire and tripped the breaker of the generator or even the whole house. A generator that turns into a motor does something mechanical, not go wump (though this might cause a fire.) Usually winding are destroyed or a shaft is damaged. I used to have a cool picture of a 24 in shaft that was sheared off in a hydro plant in India. As to the story linked to above.....100% true....I work for the utility company that owns the system where this happened and also Know two of the linemen on the crew involved |
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My biggest concern with this is having a cable sitting arround with the two lines shorted together. Backfeeding can be done safely, you just have to ba careful. There are far more (true) horror stories of people who keep loaded guns in there house. I've backfed plenty of 208 or 240 panels with 110V, but it was done with wire, and when I finished there was nothing left to make it easer for the next person to tie the two lines together accidentally. Almost every construction site I've worked on at some point you energise 208V lighting panels with 20V single phase so you have lights as sheetrock goes up. The safest way to do this is usually to run say 10/4 to the pannel, tie L1 to L1, and L2 to L2 and L3, and only turn on the lighting breakers, and lock the panel. As to the story linked to above, I don't believe it for an instant. Part of it might be true, but it sounds a whole lot more like a scare sell for transfer switches. It's easy enough to endanger a lineman working on your drop, but you generator can't backfeed the whole neighborhood, this would both kill the generator and trip the breaker to which it was attached. Ditto, it the lineman re energized the section and it blew the fuse at distribution voltage, it would have melted the wire and tripped the breaker of the generator or even the whole house. A generator that turns into a motor does something mechanical, not go wump (though this might cause a fire.) Usually winding are destroyed or a shaft is damaged. I used to have a cool picture of a 24 in shaft that was sheared off in a hydro plant in India. As to the story linked to above.....100% true....I work for the utility company that owns the system where this happened and also Know two of the linemen on the crew involved I expect something else was involved when the power was turned back on for the same reasons C-B explained. My guess is the responders didn't have enough knowledge to understand the technical aspects of what had happened and crafted an 'interesting' explanation to suit their 'objectives'. |
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My biggest concern with this is having a cable sitting arround with the two lines shorted together. Backfeeding can be done safely, you just have to ba careful. There are far more (true) horror stories of people who keep loaded guns in there house. I've backfed plenty of 208 or 240 panels with 110V, but it was done with wire, and when I finished there was nothing left to make it easer for the next person to tie the two lines together accidentally. Almost every construction site I've worked on at some point you energise 208V lighting panels with 20V single phase so you have lights as sheetrock goes up. The safest way to do this is usually to run say 10/4 to the pannel, tie L1 to L1, and L2 to L2 and L3, and only turn on the lighting breakers, and lock the panel. As to the story linked to above, I don't believe it for an instant. Part of it might be true, but it sounds a whole lot more like a scare sell for transfer switches. It's easy enough to endanger a lineman working on your drop, but you generator can't backfeed the whole neighborhood, this would both kill the generator and trip the breaker to which it was attached. Ditto, it the lineman re energized the section and it blew the fuse at distribution voltage, it would have melted the wire and tripped the breaker of the generator or even the whole house. A generator that turns into a motor does something mechanical, not go wump (though this might cause a fire.) Usually winding are destroyed or a shaft is damaged. I used to have a cool picture of a 24 in shaft that was sheared off in a hydro plant in India. As to the story linked to above.....100% true....I work for the utility company that owns the system where this happened and also Know two of the linemen on the crew involved I expect something else was involved when the power was turned back on for the same reasons C-B explained. My guess is the responders didn't have enough knowledge to understand the technical aspects of what had happened and crafted an 'interesting' explanation to suit their 'objectives'. Regardless of the specific details of what actually caused what, connecting the generator properly would have 100% prevented it. Play stupid games....win stupid prizes. |
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Regardless of the specific details of what actually caused what, connecting the generator properly would have 100% prevented it. Play stupid games....win stupid prizes. It is very hard to educate those who just won't learn. Especially about this kind of thing where they have done something like this and not killed themselves or anyone else so they think it is because they are skilled and knowledgeable rather than just lucky. |
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Regardless of the specific details of what actually caused what, connecting the generator properly would have 100% prevented it. Play stupid games....win stupid prizes. It is very hard to educate those who just won't learn. Especially about this kind of thing where they have done something like this and not killed themselves or anyone else so they think it is because they are skilled and knowledgeable rather than just lucky. You are right. Some just won't learn. Do it one way and someone who doesn't understand your system COULD get hurt (or you if you aren't concentrating on the task at hand) or you can do it right and almost completely eliminate the possibility that someone can get hurt. Hmmm...no brainer to me. Guess some people are more willing to risk themselves or their loved ones. |
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or you can do it right and almost completely eliminate the possibility that someone can get hurt. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=644329 ar-jedi |
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As to the story linked to above.....100% true....I work for the utility company that owns the system where this happened and also Know two of the linemen on the crew involved Could you post some more details. Like the manufacturer of the breakers that allowed all of this fault current to pass? The manufacturer of the generator that could back feed a who neighborhood, etc. I'm sure the US DOE or CPSC would jump on this, as it is a far greater risk to life that the counterfeit Sq D breakers or the Puerto Rico GE Spectra breakers If someone had dropped the welder extension cord in water, you would expect the same behavior of the breakers not tripping. This would burn the house down just by itself. |
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As to the story linked to above.....100% true....I work for the utility company that owns the system where this happened and also Know two of the linemen on the crew involved Could you post some more details. Like the manufacturer of the breakers that allowed all of this fault current to pass? The manufacturer of the generator that could back feed a who neighborhood, etc. I'm sure the US DOE or CPSC would jump on this, as it is a far greater risk to life that the counterfeit Sq D breakers or the Puerto Rico GE Spectra breakers If someone had dropped the welder extension cord in water, you would expect the same behavior of the breakers not tripping. This would burn the house down just by itself. Sigh. Some people just refuse to understand. |
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My biggest concern with this is having a cable sitting arround with the two lines shorted together. Backfeeding can be done safely, you just have to ba careful. There are far more (true) horror stories of people who keep loaded guns in there house. I've backfed plenty of 208 or 240 panels with 110V, but it was done with wire, and when I finished there was nothing left to make it easer for the next person to tie the two lines together accidentally. Almost every construction site I've worked on at some point you energise 208V lighting panels with 20V single phase so you have lights as sheetrock goes up. The safest way to do this is usually to run say 10/4 to the pannel, tie L1 to L1, and L2 to L2 and L3, and only turn on the lighting breakers, and lock the panel. As to the story linked to above, I don't believe it for an instant. Part of it might be true, but it sounds a whole lot more like a scare sell for transfer switches. It's easy enough to endanger a lineman working on your drop, but you generator can't backfeed the whole neighborhood, this would both kill the generator and trip the breaker to which it was attached. Ditto, it the lineman re energized the section and it blew the fuse at distribution voltage, it would have melted the wire and tripped the breaker of the generator or even the whole house. A generator that turns into a motor does something mechanical, not go wump (though this might cause a fire.) Usually winding are destroyed or a shaft is damaged. I used to have a cool picture of a 24 in shaft that was sheared off in a hydro plant in India. As to the story linked to above.....100% true....I work for the utility company that owns the system where this happened and also Know two of the linemen on the crew involved I expect something else was involved when the power was turned back on for the same reasons C-B explained. My guess is the responders didn't have enough knowledge to understand the technical aspects of what had happened and crafted an 'interesting' explanation to suit their 'objectives'. Just so you understand this story was submitted by a regional electrical inspector ( a master electrician who has also passed a rigorous hiring process by the province) and not by the local first responders |
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As to the story linked to above.....100% true....I work for the utility company that owns the system where this happened and also Know two of the linemen on the crew involved Could you post some more details. Like the manufacturer of the breakers that allowed all of this fault current to pass? The manufacturer of the generator that could back feed a who neighborhood, etc. I'm sure the US DOE or CPSC would jump on this, as it is a far greater risk to life that the counterfeit Sq D breakers or the Puerto Rico GE Spectra breakers If someone had dropped the welder extension cord in water, you would expect the same behavior of the breakers not tripping. This would burn the house down just by itself. would you like me to make a few calls and post the entire incident report or just the highlights ? |
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As to the story linked to above.....100% true....I work for the utility company that owns the system where this happened and also Know two of the linemen on the crew involved Could you post some more details. Like the manufacturer of the breakers that allowed all of this fault current to pass? The manufacturer of the generator that could back feed a who neighborhood, etc. I'm sure the US DOE or CPSC would jump on this, as it is a far greater risk to life that the counterfeit Sq D breakers or the Puerto Rico GE Spectra breakers If someone had dropped the welder extension cord in water, you would expect the same behavior of the breakers not tripping. This would burn the house down just by itself. would you like me to make a few calls and post the entire incident report or just the highlights ? Your call but I wouldn't bother. You can post all the facts and reasons and info out there and some people will still refuse to do it the right way and will insist on trying it their way. I have a brother like that. I can explain the reason that he shouldn't do it XYZ way, tell him what will happen when he doesn't listen, give him viable alternatives, and he'll still do it his way....and then screw up in the end and have to redo it the way I told him. Sometimes, he'll even redo it twice before finally listening. He just likes to learn the hard way on everything. I used to be that way too. Then, I got older and learned that it was smarter and better to learn from other people's mistakes!!!! |