Posted: 6/23/2011 8:07:47 PM EDT
| I just bought a car that gets about 35 mpg so I no longer have a 4x4 that I can use. I live in a very hilly area and we get a lot of snow here. Financially and lifestyle wise a car that gets good mileage is better for me than a 4x4. During the warm months I shoot a lot so I frequently travel between NY, PA, OH, etc. for shoots so I need a vehicle that won't kill me in a gas, which is why I just bought a car. What I need though is a relatively cheap vehicle that I can use in the winter to get around in. It doesn't have to be newer. Ideally I just need something that will get me up and down these hills around here. I won't even dare take the car out once snow falls because I know I'll end up in a ditch very quickly. |
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Winter tires for the car......Blizzac(sp) or X-Ice tires Chains for the car Is the car front wheel drive? If`so then see if there is a locker differential that can be installed. The only way to get up to my house is on hills that range from 35-45 degrees at a minimum. The car is front wheel drive but chains on the wheels wouldn't be practical. There isn't a lockers on the car. I'll mention that whatever vehicle I decide to get has to be either a truck or an SUV. I see deer in the middle of the road daily with this and the winter roads I'd prefer a larger vehicle for safety in the winter. |
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The only way to get up to my house is on hills that range from 35-45 degrees at a minimum. The car is front wheel drive but chains on the wheels wouldn't be practical. There isn't a lockers on the car. I'll mention that whatever vehicle I decide to get has to be either a truck or an SUV. I see deer in the middle of the road daily with this and the winter roads I'd prefer a larger vehicle for safety in the winter. 35-45 degree slopes? 
Just out of curiosity, why did you buy a vehicle that won't go where you want in the winter? I honestly fail to understand this, but I do remember that folks in your region do tend to buy older vehicles as "winter cars" so their newer fair weather summer vehicles don't so quickly get salt-rot and sand-blasted paint from the stuff they put on the roads... so I'll just attribute it to local custom. If it was me, since you don't need A/C, I'd try to find an ex-military CUCV/Blazer in good condition. |
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OP, I am VERY pleased with my 2001 Ford Escape 4x4.
Here is a link to used Escape prices. (This is also known as the Mazda Tribute.) |
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Quoted: Quoted: Winter tires for the car......Blizzac(sp) or X-Ice tires Chains for the car Is the car front wheel drive? If`so then see if there is a locker differential that can be installed. The only way to get up to my house is on hills that range from 35-45 degrees at a minimum. The car is front wheel drive but chains on the wheels wouldn't be practical. There isn't a lockers on the car. I'll mention that whatever vehicle I decide to get has to be either a truck or an SUV. I see deer in the middle of the road daily with this and the winter roads I'd prefer a larger vehicle for safety in the winter. This one would not be cheap to buy, but has many tacticool points  This one is a tier one tacticool from the old school, but may have a poor heater  I have this.  |
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There is no way a second vehicle will ever be cheaper than paying the difference in gas mileage on a truck. I disagree and think it is vehicle dependent. I have a 2001 F250 superduty diesel that gets 12 mpg or so around town. I couldn't justify the cost of fuel (and my shorter drive to work that hardly would get the diesel up to operating temps). I picked up a used 1997 Toyota Rav4 for $1200. It gets 25+ mpg, has all wheel drive, and it is cheap to insure. Lets do the math. When I drive 50 miles a week back and forth to work in my Rav4 it costs me $7 in fuel alone (@$3.50). In my F250, it costs me $16.66(@$4) or $9.66 per week savings in fuel. In 20 weeks I save $193.33 In 2.39 years (I am beyond that) the Rav4 has paid for itself. And I am not including the extra costs for oil changes and other more expensive maintenance of the F250 or adjusting for the extra cost to insure the Rav4, but those 2 probably balance out. I don't know how far the OP has to commute, but my paltry 50 miles a week is pretty low so I would guess most people drive about 25 miles round trip a day for their commute which would pay off the car even faster. To the OP: Get a Subaru, CR-V, RAV4, or something along those lines. |
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OP, I am VERY pleased with my 2001 Ford Escape 4x4. Here is a link to used Escape prices. (This is also known as the Mazda Tribute.) We found out the hard way that Escapes/Mariners/Tributes have a weak transmission. We recently spent $2300 rebuilding the trans in the wife's 2006 Mariner. The guy at the repair shop said it isn't a case of if but when. |
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I'm failing miserably at finding the logic behind buying two vehicles vs. lower mpg on one. Hey, to each their own I guess.
So...what is your budget? If it were me, I would find an older Jeep Cherokee Sport. Don't go with the Grand Cherokee if it is all-time all-wheel drive, they use CV axles instead of u-joints and if you drive a lot on pavement, you will be replacing them a lot starting @ $130 each if you do it yourself. Ask me how I know. |
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The only way to get up to my house is on hills that range from 35-45 degrees at a minimum. The car is front wheel drive but chains on the wheels wouldn't be practical. There isn't a lockers on the car. I'll mention that whatever vehicle I decide to get has to be either a truck or an SUV. I see deer in the middle of the road daily with this and the winter roads I'd prefer a larger vehicle for safety in the winter. 35-45 degree slopes?
Just out of curiosity, why did you buy a vehicle that won't go where you want in the winter? I honestly fail to understand this, but I do remember that folks in your region do tend to buy older vehicles as "winter cars" so their newer fair weather summer vehicles don't so quickly get salt-rot and sand-blasted paint from the stuff they put on the roads... so I'll just attribute it to local custom. If it was me, since you don't need A/C, I'd try to find an ex-military CUCV/Blazer in good condition. I bought a car knowing that I would buy some type of winter vehicle. Gas is too expensive to use a vehicle that gets 15 MPG on average to drive state to state with so a car was a necessary. What do CUCVs go for from govliquidations? |
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I really like my 2011 off-road tacoma. I don't like the little turn knob for the 4x4. My 2002 taco had a gear shifter transfer case I really liked! It was mechanical more than electrical. There are many good choices out there in Ford, Jeep, GMC, Toyota, blaa blaa blaa. Look at on-line ratings and see which fits your needs. Post pics here afterward for criticism. |
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+1 Subaru.
AWD, low center of gravity so they don't roll over nearly as often as SUVs, decently easy on gas, and the Outbacks are great little haulers. Put a set of aggressive snow tires on it (studded if studs are legal where you are) and you're as good to go as you're going to get. Forget an SUV or truck. Around here, during winter, the tow guys do a brisk business pulling overturned SUVs out of the ditches. During and after big storms I will see a half dozen rolled SUVs on my way to town. I have never seen an overturned Subaru. ETA: Notice who is recommending what on this thread. The ones saying SUV are mostly not in serious snow country. |
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Subaru. Double Yes to Subi. Jeep Cherokee. Last winter when we had the crazy snow (for MD) the Subarus with their low clearance were stuck - while I was out playing. Plus with the Jeep being an American made product (and built for many many years) parts are easier to find and cheaper. Oh and that 4.0 inline 6 is nearly impossible to kill. Won't be the prettiest vehicle nor have as nice a ride as the Subaru - but it will get you where you need to go and be cheap enough to buy and keep running. |
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I can't believe I'm going to say this. How about a Land Rover? You can pick up an older Discovery on the cheap. With lockers and a little common sense, mine has never been stuck in the snow. During a large storm last year I pulled lots of folks out of the ditch. They do require maintenance, and I'd never suggest one to anybody as a daily driver, but for their capability and low purchase price, it might be worth your time to look. |
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+1 Subaru. AWD, low center of gravity so they don't roll over nearly as often as SUVs, decently easy on gas, and the Outbacks are great little haulers. Put a set of aggressive snow tires on it (studded if studs are legal where you are) and you're as good to go as you're going to get. Forget an SUV or truck. Around here, during winter, the tow guys do a brisk business pulling overturned SUVs out of the ditches. During and after big storms I will see a half dozen rolled SUVs on my way to town. I have never seen an overturned Subaru. ETA: Notice who is recommending what on this thread. The ones saying SUV are mostly not in serious snow country. +1 to this. We have 2 Subaru Foresters and the AWD combined with snow tires and low center of gravity makes them tanks in winter driving conditions. They handle much better than SUV's and trucks as well. I dare say that on the road they'll keep up with, if not be better than any truck or SUV. I've had trucks all my life but when gas prices went stupid years ago we got rid of the full size truck and Nissan Xterra we had and got Subarus and haven't looked back. I've plowed through snow drifts so deep that it was up to the grille and stopped then started again to see if I'd get stuck and haven't. Last winter my brother tried to beat me at a stop light with his full size 4x4 truck in a snow storm with 4-6" drifts in the road and I left him in the dust. |
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ETA: Notice who is recommending what on this thread. The ones saying SUV are mostly not in serious snow country. Some of us currently don't live in snow country, but grew up in it (including your fair state). Vehicles turning over is due to driving like an overagressive idiot, not due to the vehicle. Young rednecks tend to drive trucks and SUVs rather than the effeminate looking Suburu's THAT is why you don't see them overturned as much. I've seen the overturned trucks down here too, several times I watch them pass me like a bat out of hell not realizing 4WD doesn't revoke the laws of physics on slippery surfaces. |
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Another vote for the Jeep Cherokee I-6/Grand Cherokee. Way less cost than a Suburu, parts are everywhere, and if you keep the CV's greased you shouldn't have issues (can also replace CV shafts w/ traditional u-joint type). AWD transfer case in the early Grands sucked, but 6 bolts and a trip to the yard I had an easy swap (make sure input shaft is correct length). Tires with winter tread (dedicated winter tire/All-Terrain with lots of siping) not larger than stock will keep milage and capabilities up. Good luck!
Sam E.T.A. I'm currently in beutiful Colorado. Plenty of snow, and have gone up snow covered forest roads with no issues or Suburu's in sight. |
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ETA: Notice who is recommending what on this thread. The ones saying SUV are mostly not in serious snow country. But not all of us. We only got a little over 500 inches of snow last winter and it's almost July and some ski resorts are still open. We might know a little about snow out here. And mountains, too. 
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If you want to spend around $5000-8,000 look at 96-02 Silverados, Sierras, yukons and tahoes with around 100k miles on them. Easy to work on and pretty much bullet proof when you get a 5.7L MFPI (96-98/99) engine. If you are concerned about gas mileage make sure to get one with the 3.42 rear end gear which is on the RPO code sticker in the glove box. It's RPO code GU6.
Only get a Japanese car if you plan to slap a green peace sticker on it j/k
Here's a few examples for $3000-5000. http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/2400353583.html http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/ctd/2386630000.html |
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I bought a Jeep GC for business and traveling in your area.
What I needed was a lot of long distance road comfort and superior traction in snow and wet conditions. The new Quadratrak II, 2005 up, is amazing. Its switches traction in any combination 1 to 4 wheels in a faction of a wheel turn, by electronically using the braking system/traction control. It really is quite unique in 4x4 systems. The same system provides an almost amazing braking system. When that ABS kicks in, its lightening fast and aggressive providing a pulsating stop like nothing I've ever driven. Its so aggressive, it scared me the first time. I thought something was breaking. lol When looking for one, the dealers won't know one from the other and there are many Jeep options. If the vehicle does not have traction control and a lever to put it into low 4x4 (locked up), its not the new system but the old one which is pretty much not much different than the Subaru all wheel drive. Though few people talk about this on forums, weight is everything. The Jeep GC dry weight is 5,600lbs. I own 3 4x4s and though the Jeep GC ground clearance is no rock climber, its 4x4 is simply the most idiot proof effective system, I've ever been around. Tj |
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If you want to spend around $5000-8,000 look at 96-02 Silverados, Sierras, yukons and tahoes with around 100k miles on them. Easy to work on and pretty much bullet proof when you get a 5.7L MFPI (96-98/99) engine. If you are concerned about gas mileage make sure to get one with the 3.42 rear end gear which is on the RPO code sticker in the glove box. It's RPO code GU6. Only get a Japanese car if you plan to slap a green peace sticker on it j/k
Here's an example of a cheap needs nothing Tahoe in the New York area for $3000. [urlhttp://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/2400353583.html[/url] As a person with a 99 silverado (that I've had since it was a year old), I can honestly say I would rather have a Tacoma or a 4runner over my truck any-day, especially if it was going to be a second vehicle and I wasn't worried about towing\hauling a lot of people or stuff. Size and capacity is the only thing a Silverado has over a Tacoma. As far as the US made BS... I believe in buying US made products as much if not more then the next guy but how is my Government Motors\UAW Silverado built in Canada more American then a Tacoma built in a non-union plant in Texas? GM may be an "American" company but while they are shipping more and more of their production to Canada and Mexico, Toyota is bringing more of their production to the US. I don't care about where the big wigs call home as much as I care about who's offering jobs and putting American's to work. I also care about who's putting out a higher quality product and Toyota has GM beat in both categories. |
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+1 Subaru. AWD, low center of gravity so they don't roll over nearly as often as SUVs, decently easy on gas, and the Outbacks are great little haulers. Put a set of aggressive snow tires on it (studded if studs are legal where you are) and you're as good to go as you're going to get. Forget an SUV or truck. Around here, during winter, the tow guys do a brisk business pulling overturned SUVs out of the ditches. During and after big storms I will see a half dozen rolled SUVs on my way to town. I have never seen an overturned Subaru. ETA: Notice who is recommending what on this thread. The ones saying SUV are mostly not in serious snow country. Some of were smart enough to leave..........for what he wants....a 2nd vehicle......I stand by the cherokee......and for NY (especially upstate and snow belt areas) its a great choice. HE allready has a small car |
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s-10 with Zoption 24 mpg's 250,000.0 ya ya ya
fix what they need as they need it 3,000 up I get people complementing me on mine ALL the time it is the HUNTING TRUCK......... and it "snag straps" out more trucks , I have failed to get stuck YET.... sorry for the poor gramer... etc etc etc.. |
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ETA: Notice who is recommending what on this thread. The ones saying SUV are mostly not in serious snow country. I lived in Minnesota and upstate New York among other places. I'm pretty sure that we had serious snow in both locales. Folks can get anything stuck in a ditch if they don't drive properly for conditions and choose the right equipment. A block heater (and battery wraps) becomes real nice to have in these cold winter climates. My poor Chevy from Virginia didn't like Minnesota at all. |
| It doesn't matter too much what you drive in winter, as long as you have decent snow tires and the roads are kept up. With junk tires it doesn't matter if it's 4wheel or not, it still sucks. If both have good tires, then how well the roads are maintained is what would make the difference. If the roads are always plowed well I would use a little car in a heartbeat. They need less room, handle better, and stop faster. If the roads aren't plowed well, the 4x is required, as more than 3-4" of old snow is too much for a little car, especially when there are drifts and such where the snow is deeper yet. |
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1. Subaru
2. Older Toyota Tacoma 3. Jeep Cherokee I live at 8000 feet in the Colorado mountains, and commute 45 miles each way to work. We have an Outback, a 2003 tacoma double cab 4x4, a 1996 dodge cummins 4x4, a 1989 3/4 ton suburban 4x4, and my old toyota camry. When there is too much snow for the camry to get up our hill guess which one I take? The subaru. They are amazing in the snow as long as you are on the road. The subaru system does a great job. We have a manual which by design splits power 50/50 between the front and rear. I believe the front and rear have viscous couplings which distributes power to all four wheels. They are a kick in the pants to drive in the snow. The combination of the low center of gravity you get with the horizontally opposed engine along with the design of the AWD is amazing. I can go much faster in it than any of my other 4x4s on the road. I have driven it home when we got 20" of snow overnight, pushing it with the bumper. As long as the snow is light it does great. If it gets deep and heavy, you start to run into one of the downfalls of the subi. The downfall to the subaru is two fold: 1. Ground clearance- once you get off road into deep snow it high centers easily- then the suburban comes out to pull it out (when the suburban gets stuck, the backhoe comes out). I have never stuck it on a paved road, but I have in a pasture, and also on our dirt road when it hasn't been plowed and the snow has drifted and is hard. It also gets stuck pretty readily when I try to get into my driveway before I plow it while trying to get over the snow kicked to the side by the county plow. Once the plow pushes the snow to the side, it hardens up and gets much more difficult for the subi to get through. If I have enough speed I can often break through the snow that the plow kicked up and get to the soft light stuff on the other side and keep going, if not I just leave it where it is and start plowing. 2. Lack of a two speed transfer case. If you are really doing off road, the subaru has problems with low end power. You end up going too fast and tearing things up because you don't have the low end torque you need to off road. I have foolishly taken a subaru up some roads that I had no business being on with that car. Once I ripped one of the rear tires open on a rock about 6 miles off the main road because I was trying to get up a hill revving the engine and spinning the tires when I should have had a two speed transfer case. If you are really just driving on road the subaru is the best option- consistent 27 mpg and great handling. If you want something that goes off road the Taco or Jeep are the way to go IMHO. The toyotas have a great reputation for running for a long time, as do the cherokees with the inline 6. One of the ladies I work with has a cherokee with over 300k on it, and from what I read around here that is not uncommon. I have never owned one, but folks who do seem to be pretty loyal. Around here the Toyotas seem to have a higher resale value than the Cherokees, so I think it would cost more to get into the Toyota. They Jeeps can be had for 3-5000 pretty commonly, the toyotas more in the 5-10000 range. The best of my vehicles off road in the snow is actually the suburban. It has a lot of weight on both the front and read axles, and good ground clearance (I think I have the equivalent of 32" tires on it with the stock suspension). If you chain up all four you can get yourself into some pretty good trouble before it stops going any further. When you get it stuck it is a bear to get out. I also have a hard time even starting it up because it gets 11 mpg, or 12 when going down hill with a hurricaine at your back (350 with TH400 three speed auto). I have been a little disappointed with my 2003 double cab tacoma in the gas mileage department. Every now and then I can get 20 mpg, but for the most part I get 15-18 (the double cab only came with an auto in 2003, but I think the xtra cabs could be bought with manuals). This is likely because it is usually parked unless I am driving off road, so I guess I shouldn't complain. If you get a tacoma with the TRD package you get a factory locking rear differential which is nice. However, I have found that once you get it stuck in the snow the difference the lock up makes is small (I usually get things really stuck before I kick it in). I have not used the locker with chains on yet, it may be more helpful in that situation. The tacoma is not as good as the suburban, but better than the dodge when off road. It is easier to get unstuck than either of them because of the lighter weight. The cummins is a pain like the suburban when you get stuck, but it doesn't have the good weight distribution the burb does. The engine in the dodge weighs a lot more than the 350 in the burb, and that is weight you have to get moving again somehow. I usually get around 18.5 mpg in it, which I can live with. I really have never put enough weight in the back for the winter, as I don't off road with it much. It is more of a work truck. If you are going to do off roading a winch is more useful than you could imagine when you get stuck in the snow. It will save you hours of shoveling snow and soaking yourself with sweat. I like the quick mount versions which can be mounted to the front or rear, as when I get in trouble usually the only way out is backwards- the way I came in. Don't forget your warm clothes, boots, chains, work gloves (so you don't freeze you hands to your chains), shovel, some sand bags for weight (and traction if necessary) if you get a pickup, and tow strap (actually I am partial to Harbor Freight chains instead of straps for trucks). Also figure out your attachment points (and how you are going to attach) for tow straps/chains BEFORE you bury the vehicle in the snow. P.S. Looking for some serious tire chains for a car? Check out the Diamond chains HERE for some great ones that still meet class S requirements. They also make some boron alloy ones for trucks. |
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Quoted: Winter tires for the car......Blizzac(sp) or X-Ice tires Chains for the car Is the car front wheel drive? If`so then see if there is a locker differential that can be installed. you dont want a locker in the front. think about that for a minute. its not like a locker in a 4x4 going slow on the rocks. you wont be able to steer well for one thing. breaking CV joints is another. |
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You are correct....I said locker....what I should have said is limited slip....a torsen would be my top choice. Quoted: Quoted: Winter tires for the car......Blizzac(sp) or X-Ice tires Chains for the car Is the car front wheel drive? If`so then see if there is a locker differential that can be installed. you dont want a locker in the front. think about that for a minute. its not like a locker in a 4x4 going slow on the rocks. you wont be able to steer well for one thing. breaking CV joints is another. |