Posted: 12/3/2010 1:46:43 PM EDT
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the rancher down in Mexico got me to thinking. How would you answer his problem? For me now: I'd have to walk, but leave a scorched earth. |
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yes, if he had enough guns to set room to room, might have been better to rustle up a few stalwarts and take those scum in an L-ambush on the road leading to the property.
Maybe rig some way to fire the property completely, if the ambush didn't go well. –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2010/11/mexican-marines-reconstruct-death-of.html Mexico - The Last Stand of Don Alejo Garza Tamez « on: November 22, 2010, 08:55:53 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic Mexican Marines Reconstruct the Death of Don Alejo Garza Monday, November 22, 2010 | Borderland Beat Reporter Ovemex When Mexican Marines arrived at the San Jose Ranch, 15 kilometers from Victoria, Tamaulipas, the scene was bleak: The austere main house was practically destroyed by grenades and heavy gunfire. Outside of the home, they found four bodies. Cautiously, and with their weapons drawn, the troops continued inspecting the exterior and found two more gunmen, wounded and unconscious, but alive. Inside the house only one body was found, riddled with bullets and with two weapons by it's side. The body was identified as Don Alejo Garza Tamez, the owner of the ranch and a highly respected businessman in Nuevo Leon. Upon further inspection of the interior, marines found weapons and ammunition at every window and door. This allowed them to reconstruct how, just hours prior, the battle had played out. Marines searched for more bodies inside the house, but none were to be found. It seemed hard to believe that one person, armed only with hunting rifles, had caused so many casualties on the attackers. Dozens of spent shells and the smell of gunpowder gave proof of the tenacity of the man who fought to the end in defense, of not only his ranch, but his dignity. In the end, it was deduced the man had created his own defense strategy to fight alone, placing weapons at every door and window. The story began in the morning of Saturday November 13, when a group of armed gunmen went to deliver an ultimatum to Don Alejo Garza Tamez: He had 24 hours to turn over his property or suffer the consequences. ... |
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Quoted: I don't have kids so I would do exactly what he did but I think I could set ambushes and take more of them out before they got me. Tamum - agreed: After I get my kids grown up to function and contribute to society, then I will have some different responsibilities. As papa I gotta raise and train the kids. As grandpa I gotta make sure that my kids have a secure society to raise my grandkids in. |
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Bright lights to blind them, hi-cap rifles to put them down, a short drive to the whereabouts of the hacienda of the mook who sent them and a note on the windshield.
If they'd done it before, then the guy who sent them was known. If he was known, he can be found. Once you come to my house looking to kill me and take it, I consider it open season on you and anybody who works for you. 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I came into this world screaming and covered in someone else’s blood. I would have no problem with going out the same way. That could very well be the most awesome statement I have ever read. I agree, most profound.  Its been said before. My company commander said that to someone was I was in Basic. |
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I certainly agree that an ambush setup might have been more effective.
But that guy was in his late 70s/early 80s, wasn't he? If I were at that stage of life, and had lived through the crap on the border for such an extended period of time, then I might do what he did. He had fewer years in front of him that the rest of us do. I ain't ready for a suicide mission to defend a structure that they will get anyway. Set up a reasonable spot to take out a few and have an exit? Sure. But stay there to die when I've been forewarned? Nope. |
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Quoted:
Bright lights to blind them, hi-cap rifles to put them down, a short drive to the whereabouts of the hacienda of the mook who sent them and a note on the windshield. If they'd done it before, then the guy who sent them was known. If he was known, he can be found. Once you come to my house looking to kill me and take it, I consider it open season on you and anybody who works for you. Ah, sweet revenge. Its a poisonous endeavor - one which will surely poison the soul, but it does indeed taste so sweet when it happens. |
| well if I'm going out... one hell of a shopping spree the day before (ive been contemplating something belt fed for a while)... followed by a little fun n games... Life for them would end interstingly and abruptly... I may go out too but an ambush, a few buddies, a backhoe, a couple toys and a couple tricks would make things very bright and loud at 4 am... then very quiet and dark. I have no children to worry about if I dont make it but I would try very hard to survive. |
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Defending a fixed position is always the better option.... unless you are alone. I would have drawn them in to an ambush and had an exit stratagy with pre-positioned supplies. Let them think they have taken the house and then burn it. Unfortunatly to the poeple that took his house and land life is cheap so, while the owner made the individuals pay, to their bosses its just cheap business as usual.
However, cudos to the owner for standing up to them and hopefully he is at peace now. |
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Put a post in general discussion mentioning free beer for the 1st 100 people to show up with a sighted in long gun, 10 fully loaded magazines, and the ability to prove their firearm is sighted in at 100 yards or whatever they sighted it in at if it is beyond that. Laugh constantly while the drug cartel guys deal with 100 fellas protecting their free beer. In reality that might work or I might just implement some simple booby traps so the drug cartel guys and their vehicles never get through the 1st 150 yards of my driveway. |
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Quoted:
well if I'm going out... one hell of a shopping spree the day before (ive been contemplating something belt fed for a while)... followed by a little fun n games... Life for them would end interstingly and abruptly... I may go out too but an ambush, a few buddies, a backhoe, a couple toys and a couple tricks would make things very bright and loud at 4 am... then very quiet and dark. I have no children to worry about if I dont make it but I would try very hard to survive. I like the way you think.
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Bright lights to blind them, hi-cap rifles to put them down, a short drive to the whereabouts of the hacienda of the mook who sent them and a note on the windshield. If they'd done it before, then the guy who sent them was known. If he was known, he can be found. Once you come to my house looking to kill me and take it, I consider it open season on you and anybody who works for you. Ah, sweet revenge. Its a poisonous endeavor - one which will surely poison the soul, but it does indeed taste so sweet when it happens. I've given your reply some serious thought, as the idea of revenge never entered into it. After some thought, it still doesn't. The idea is that you've made of me someone with nothing to lose. You've therefore freed me to become an instrument of higher learning. The lesson being that you can only throw your weight, however much that might be, around for so long before you encounter somebody who just won't take it, and will come after you. Like the sniper in Sierra Leone, once you establish that the leadership isn't safe, the entire chain becomes less dangerous. In my eyes, it's less about revenge than it is about keeping it from happening again, to me or someone else. |
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This is a sad tale, but one that all can take a lesson or two from. As Preppers/survivalists, most of the members here are all about choices. We make the choice to prepare so that should something bad happen we can still have options that others, who have chosen not to prepare, will not have. We as a group are of the mindset that we will have a hand in our own futures. This story is a lesson in what can happen in the final equation when all other choices are gone. Do you lay down, or do you make your presence felt.
It is also a lesson for those living in the free fire zone known as Mexico. The drug lords and their goons only operate there because they can. If every citizen, or even half the citizens were to take the same stance as this elderly rancher, the gang problem would have been resolved long ago. If every time the drug goons tried to throw their weight around they were met with a hail of return fire, being a gang member would loose a lot of it's appeal. This one old man dropped six or so of the bad guys, now multiply that by hundreds of citizens defending their own, and there is not much left of the cartel. I know I would not want to be put in that man's shoes, ever. But if you were to corner me like that, leave me no choices, I think I would most likely make a similar choice. Or at least I like to think I would. I like to think I would do it a little better. Having thought about similar situations, I have given some thought to a game plan. Cornered like that, I would hope that having thought about it before hand, I would be able to implement some of the ideas that I had kicked around. Things like forward defense and IED type party favors. Maybe taking the fight to the guy who is sending the goons my way. Sand bagging and fortifying my house like a little Alamo for my last stand. Unfortunately for the rancher in question, he most likely had never given the idea much thought. So he did the best he could with what he had. I would like to think I could do as well. I would like to think I could do better. I don't ever want to find out if that is the case. Regardless, I am full of awe and respect for that old man down in Mexico. Back against the wall, he made his stand. Words fail me... stasiman |
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I am not in a stage in my life when I would be willing to just sit and wait for the bad guys to come and get me. I would rig up the house to blow/burn, then I would allow them to take the house and burn it to the ground with them inside.
Then I would spend the rest of my time on earth hunting down and killing every single last member of that gang. |
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IEDs are not for the sole use of islamic terrorists nor do they require arty shells to make. I may not have lived but they would've had an interesting ride up to my property. ... and a much faster ride down to hell! 
One 'mascal' equivalent on a pickup or SUV on it's way down the lane would bring the entire operation to its knees. However, HME is also not legal and IED emplacers tend to blow themselves up... |
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mascal –– mass casualty simulation? In this use, an event where enough casualties are sustained that the element is no longer able to continue mission due casualties and remaining personnel tied up in CASEVAC and security.....that is, if this type of enemy does that. My point is that it does not take much to reach that threshold with a small hit team of the type that would be encountered. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I came into this world screaming and covered in someone else’s blood. I would have no problem with going out the same way. That could very well be the most awesome statement I have ever read. I agree, most profound. Ditto, I really like it!!! |
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Bait the bastards in, get them fixated on a spot you want them to be fixated on, then hit them from an unexpected direction.
In the Mexican rancher situation, he did part of that. Clearly the bad guys were focused on his home. But it is too bad the guy didn't have access to some command detonated mines, like claymores. Imagine how the outcome could have been different if he had some of those placed alongside his road and wired together. He could probably have taken out the whole group of shitheads without ever needing to fire a shot, or at least killed some of them and wounded the rest to the point they'd have been easy pickings for someone a couple hundred yards away with a scoped rifle. For a lone actor like this guy, that is about the only chance he had to survive. Unfortunately, there aren't too many Mexican ranchers or American citizens who have their own personal stockpile of claymores. But I suppose with the right knowledge, ingredients and tools, one could come up with a suitable alternative should things ever deteriorate so far that it would become necessary to set up an ambush in your driveway. I pray we never have to face such a dire set of circumstances here in this country. 
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I wonder how many here would really have the stones to fight? Talk is ridiculously cheap and a fight most likely to the death is a whole nother matter. I don't know if I have what it takes, but I suspect that me and the boys would defend home and hearth. Having nothing left to lose is wonderfully liberating. It's a lesson dictators never learn. You can take almost everything a person has and that person will generally meekly accept it and soldier on with what's left. But if you take everything you end up with revolutionaries. |
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Someone earlier mentioned a suppressed AR10. Definately agree - suppressed, subsonic anything would be good, and definately fight from outside the house. as you could have several before they located you or knew how badly it was going for them. Night vision would be a huge equalizer but even if not... have lots of light out around your house, even if you have to build some campfires.
Set up your position so that you have a clear field of fire when they yahoo up to your house in their car(s). If they deploy hard out of the vehicle you have to start right away, but if they lollygag out of the vehicle, start with the guy farthest away from you on the other side of the car. If they see him go down they may take cover on the wrong side of the vehicle(s), towards you. Then work them outside in, from the flanks inward to keep them pinned inside the kill zone. Shots through the car if needed. If you think you got all of them, wait a long time to see. IF they successfully move to cover outside the kill zone into a position where they can work you, you need to leave. The problem was, this guy was alone. In Mexico. Even if he took out 6-12 guys that came for him the first time, got ALL of them.... how long would it be until the drug cartel came back full force, this time sneaking in. He has to sleep sometime. That's a tough spot to be in. He obviously decided not to leave. I'd still have a survival mentality for the sake of at least my family - fight but live. He was towards the end of his time perhaps and knew it. I wonder? |