[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Defending Yoursel/Group (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 12/2/2010 3:07:46 PM EDT
| I have read may of these threads however, no every speaks about killing others. Training is good but how much civilian training deals with actually killing others? you ready? Ever done it? Ever done it in front of your family (wife/so and kids)? Military training is all about killing others but what about you? If the time comes - the mental mindset must be there with the aftermath ramifications. Just saying. |
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Part of having the mindset to start preparing yourself is also making up your mind that you will do what it takes to protect your family and yourself at all costs.
To me it is sort of an unspoken thing. I think those that talk about SHTF and actually want it to happen...are the ones that are not prepared for the hell it would really be. Its those that prepare that understand how bad it would be, the potential for brutality. I dont ever want to have to hurt anyone. I dont ever want to have to kill anyone. I pray that I never have to use a gun against anyone for any reason. I hope that if bad things happen, I could possibly make it through without ever having to do harm to a soul. But if it means keeping my family, my property or myself safe? Well then things will just have to be what they will be. |
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I think that if someone was to come out a say that they would enjoy killing someone else or that they look forward to killing someone else that they have some issues that need to be addressed. Defending yourself and defending your family is certainly a different story. When time does come, I do think that there probably quite a few people here that would have a hard time taking another life, even in defense of their own.
I hope that it is a choice I never have to make. |
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Not saying that anyone would enjoy this - just saying that in the chaos of an 'event' if it was big enough would also cause the necessity (or maybe the possibility) of having to use 'deadly force' to protect you and yours. This is not an easy situation - but a real possibility depending on a SHTF (type) situation. There was another thread from a LEO taken from the Rawels blog spot regarding this potential stuff ....
I suspect that the critical element will be the time if something horriable happens. |
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If you are deemed a threat to me....my family....or my group....I will kill you as fast as I can.....and really don't care who is watching.
My kids know that when it comes to their safety.....Daddy will do what ever it takes to keep them safe. I do not look forward to the possibility...in fact dread it very much....but I will not hesitate....and really do feel that I be able to cope with it. I know that is a pretty heavy statement....and most people may loose sleep over it.....but I would rather loose sleep over a perps dead body....than the body of one of my own. The TEOTWAWKI....or SHTF situation.....really drives home the statement..."Be polite to everyone you meet....but have a plan on how to kill them". |
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Most people can talk a good game...unfortunately they lack the experience needed to be able to actually perceive and process a situation properly and come to a rational decision.
Spend some more time "dealing" with people & polishing your verbal judo....it may have more value than "I kill da guy if he comes on my property". |
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I have read may of these threads however, no every speaks about killing others. Training is good but how much civilian training deals with actually killing others? you ready? Ever done it? Ever done it in front of your family (wife/so and kids)? Military training is all about killing others but what about you? If the time comes - the mental mindset must be there with the aftermath ramifications. Just saying. True. Try this one on for size. Its post SHTF. You've got preps, and been damn good at keeping people from knowing that. Still, a few of the neighbors know you always seem to have a "little extra" and your family isn't loosing as much weight at everyone else. You also share somewhat when asked, but keep it lean to keep opsec. But thats cool, since everyone is getting by. However, some loose lips commented on this a few nights ago in a nearby town and you are in your driveway working on your truck when these three dudes (total strangers) stop at the end of your driveway and walk up to you. Mind you, you know everyone in the area, and these guys aren't known to you. "Hey man, I hear you got some extra food. Can I score some beans or something?" the middle guy asks. "Yeah" smirks the other, "Word is you got plenty to go around." So - what do you do? I pushed this scenario to many of my prepping friends, Christian friends, my wife, even my pastor (who preps and is a shooter). Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE said, without a doubt : "Kill them." Mind you, not everyone was confortable with their thought process to get to that. Some were downright shocked at themselves for coming to that conclusion. But everyone knew the alternative was, at best that you'd lose it all. Worst case, you'd be dead, your wife and children ... well, I'd rather not speculate on that. But regardless, if you drew down on them and forced them to retreat, they'd come back. With friends and firepower. As a Christian, this is a terrible scenario, but the alternatives aren't viable options. But of course, I'm simplifying the issue, but that's the point. Survival is going to come down to brutal decisions. The real question you need to ask yourself, is : will you be able to do it? |
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Most people can talk a good game...unfortunately they lack the experience needed to be able to actually perceive and process a situation properly and come to a rational decision. Spend some more time "dealing" with people & polishing your verbal judo....it may have more value than "I kill da guy if he comes on my property". Verbal Judo- That guy is still milking P.D.'s for all they're worth...He's a damn genius I tell ya 
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I have read may of these threads however, no every speaks about killing others. Training is good but how much civilian training deals with actually killing others? you ready? Ever done it? Ever done it in front of your family (wife/so and kids)? Military training is all about killing others but what about you? If the time comes - the mental mindset must be there with the aftermath ramifications. Just saying. Well, the first thing I do is try to double check and verify whatever I do... 
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I have read may of these threads however, no every speaks about killing others. Training is good but how much civilian training deals with actually killing others? you ready? Ever done it? Ever done it in front of your family (wife/so and kids)? Military training is all about killing others but what about you? If the time comes - the mental mindset must be there with the aftermath ramifications. Just saying. There's not much anybody can say they can/will personally do on an internet forum that won't seem like posturing. Say too much or the wrong thing and get labeled a mall ninja or space shuttle door gunner. That said: Most people are far removed from killing anything... they don't even kill their own food and hire an exterminator to rid their homes of vermin. OTOH, there are a lot of violent video games that folks play regularly. Might be that folks who kill a lot in these simulations will have less problem. YMMV |
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they don't even kill their own food and hire an exterminator to rid their homes of vermin. from what little i have seen..was that those training around me that have killed for food ( ie: hunted larger game- deer hogs or bigger ) seemed to be alot faster on the trigger and faster processing what to do and when while doing scenerio based COF's. ( ie: zombies in your wire or at grandmas house) Of course each person is different and under stress will react different. It was just something i noticed..even in myself and how fast i made the mental disconnect of - " if xyz happens. i do xyz with out question......" in order to be ready to protect and provide for my family...... |
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I have read may of these threads however, no every speaks about killing others. Training is good but how much civilian training deals with actually killing others? you ready? Ever done it? Ever done it in front of your family (wife/so and kids)? Military training is all about killing others but what about you? If the time comes - the mental mindset must be there with the aftermath ramifications. Just saying.
I've killed things since I was 6 years old. Grandpa gave me the hatchet when it was chicken killing time-50 of them every fall. I've hunted all my life and killed hogs and steers for the freezer since I was a kid- everyone had a job when it was butchering time at our house. I've seen more than one person seriously injured firsthand- two accidental gunshot wounds, several car wrecks, an industrial accident and a suicide attempt. My grandad lived to be 95, my grandmother 92. When I was a little kid I spent alot of time with them and it seemed like we were going to funerals every week as their friends, neighbors and relatives died off. Maybe that's why dead people don't bother me all that much. I've watched two people, close relatives, die right in front of me, was there when they took their last breaths, saw their eyes flicker the last time.... Not too Goddamn pretty like on TV and there were plenty of other places I would have liked to have been at the time, but I owed it to them. I'll do what I have to do and not worry about it a whole lot. |
| Attend annual pistol and carbine classes that have both mindset and FoF as part of their curriculum. Gunfighting is a perishible skill. The difference between you and a gang banger is that you may be more skilled in hitting paper and steel targets and he will not hesitate to pull the trigger. |
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Attend annual pistol and carbine classes that have both mindset and FoF as part of their curriculum. Gunfighting is a perishible skill. The difference between you and a gang banger is that you may be more skilled in hitting paper and steel targets and he will not hesitate to pull the trigger. I'd wager most gangbangers don't have what it takes to pull a trigger on someone either. The majority use guns for intimidation or to look cool, but don't have a history of using them on either targets or people. You obviously can't base your reaction on that and need to assume they're willing and able, though. |
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Attend annual pistol and carbine classes that have both mindset and FoF as part of their curriculum. Gunfighting is a perishible skill. The difference between you and a gang banger is that you may be more skilled in hitting paper and steel targets and he will not hesitate to pull the trigger. QFT. I was able to attend pistol class (at night) ,that had some force on force on force drills . That experience shed a lot of light on some misconceptions that I had . After playing both a good guy and a bad guy in these drills I learned the bad guys have it way easier. |
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http://www.killology.com/bio.htm
good reading at his website. Get the book On Killing. Required reading at USMA IIRC |
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Some of these responses are so ridiculous. Some guys show up in your driveway asking for food and you just shoot them? A known murderer isn't going to last long in any community.
There is another thread where SaltDog stated, very cavalierly, that if someone put up a tent on his property that he'd shoot first and ask questions later. Many of you guys are completely out of your minds. |
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Attend annual pistol and carbine classes that have both mindset and FoF as part of their curriculum. Gunfighting is a perishible skill. The difference between you and a gang banger is that you may be more skilled in hitting paper and steel targets and he will not hesitate to pull the trigger. I'd wager most gangbangers don't have what it takes to pull a trigger on someone either. The majority use guns for intimidation or to look cool, but don't have a history of using them on either targets or people. You obviously can't base your reaction on that and need to assume they're willing and able, though. On a side note, in approx 2006, there were 2 badguys who mugged a family at gunpoint in Minneapolis. After turning over their wallets and money, one of the scumbags shot the 22 year old son in the head and killed him. This happened within 75 yards of the office I worked at at the time and is in a busy neighborhood where people are always walking. Based on this story alone, I will ALWAYS assume that a bad guy is willing and able to kill me and will take appropriate response action. |
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Quoted: I have read may of these threads however, no every speaks about killing others. Training is good but how much civilian training deals with actually killing others? you ready? Ever done it? Ever done it in front of your family (wife/so and kids)? Military training is all about killing others but what about you? If the time comes - the mental mindset must be there with the aftermath ramifications. Just saying. Talking about killing people (even in SHTF and TEOTWAWKI) can come pretty close to a CoC violation. Likewise, any discussion here is worth less to me than not having some dumbass DA haul it out in the event I DO have to shoot an intruder during a run of the mill "oops thought you was da crack house" "BANG" home invasion. People who DO get in that situation say they didn't know if they could or not up until the point they did. Even trained soldiers, and THEY have a great deal of trust in their training. What prep they did doesn't seem to affect them saying that. There are lots of reasons to NOT talk about it that are far more likely than needing to in SHTF and TEOTWAKI in my opinion. So I don't.
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I have read may of these threads however, no every speaks about killing others. Training is good but how much civilian training deals with actually killing others? you ready? Ever done it? Ever done it in front of your family (wife/so and kids)? Military training is all about killing others but what about you? If the time comes - the mental mindset must be there with the aftermath ramifications. Just saying. Talking about killing people (even in SHTF and TEOTWAWKI) can come pretty close to a CoC violation. Likewise, any discussion here is worth less to me than not having some dumbass DA haul it out in the event I DO have to shoot an intruder during a run of the mill "oops thought you was da crack house" "BANG" home invasion. People who DO get in that situation say they didn't know if they could or not up until the point they did. Even trained soldiers, and THEY have a great deal of trust in their training. What prep they did doesn't seem to affect them saying that. There are lots of reasons to NOT talk about it that are far more likely than needing to in SHTF and TEOTWAKI in my opinion. So I don't. Well that's because its another of those "Plan to Fail" topics. By predisposition ourselves to an action, that's not a plan that's a decision and a decision will never cover every alternative and following it through can be disastrous. I can give you all sorts of examples. First without a doubt is "Our first duty in a crisis is to insure the safety of our loved ones. The second is to restore order." The guy popping off people at the drop of the hat is going to be first on the list for the rest of us to take care of. Second, these shoot always scenarios always seem to think people are alone in life and once dead out of sight and out of mind. Reality is they will have family and friends and if society is so declined that law is not prevalent then the law of the feud will be. This is simply another of those topics that one need not plan but take for granted when the time comes, we will do the right thing. This topic always reminds me of of Patton, "Even the best hunting dog is a little gun shy the first time out." or his famous "You'll know what to do" speech. Those of us who have been there, well we know we will, we just don't know under what circumstances we will. Tj |
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Training is good but how much civilian training deals with actually killing others? you ready?
I don't think anyone who has not killed another human intentionally can honestly answer this question until the time comes to pull the trigger. And either you do it without hesitation, or you hesitate and probably get killed yourself. Ever done it?
No. But even if I did I doubt I would be either admitting it nor bragging about in on a message board. I was a paramedic for a decade in a major metro area and I saw a lot of death. After a while I kinda detached my thoughts about people and viewed their corpses as nothing more than empty husks. My wife claims I am a fairly cold hearted-guy (which I refute by saying " Not true!! I cry when I watch Old Yeller"). As someone with the prepper mindset, if it comes to a major SHTF scenario, I plan on it being my family that survives. I have committed myself physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, etc. to do whatever it would take to assure my family's survival. I think for a lot of people that is the first step down the road of being able to overcome that moment of hesitation when your finger is on the trigger. |
| Part of preparing for ANY experience is thinking about it and imagining yourself in that situation. That doesn't mean you will be completely prepared to deal with any situation just by thinking about it, but by "wargaming it"(as the military puts it), you sort of put yourself in that situation and can BEGIN to understand some of the possible emotions you might experience. I'll repeat, it doesn't "protect" you completely from any situation, but that sort of planning and preparation is better than nothing. A person who is faced by a situation they have done nothing for will probably find themselves in worse shape than somebody who has at least thought about it before. Thinking about something before it happens can also help you come up with possible options. Trying to come up with options while you're dealing with a crisis will probably be harder, since you'll be trying to do two(or more) things at once. |
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Part of preparing for ANY experience is thinking about it and imagining yourself in that situation. That doesn't mean you will be completely prepared to deal with any situation just by thinking about it, but by "wargaming it"(as the military puts it), you sort of put yourself in that situation and can BEGIN to understand some of the possible emotions you might experience. I'll repeat, it doesn't "protect" you completely from any situation, but that sort of planning and preparation is better than nothing. A person who is faced by a situation they have done nothing for will probably find themselves in worse shape than somebody who has at least thought about it before. Thinking about something before it happens can also help you come up with possible options. Trying to come up with options while you're dealing with a crisis will probably be harder, since you'll be trying to do two(or more) things at once. I don't think the OP is actually going for "To stop a threat" but willing to snuff someone, the mindset to kill. That's why my first post I posted what I did. I don't practice drawing my weapon to kill but to stop a threat. If they die, well I'm sorry, but that decision was theirs not mine. I can't fathom a scenario where the rules change on when I would stop a threat. We don't need SHTF or some nuclear holocaust for that. It happens in life during normal times. Who we are shouldn't change because the world did and our morals and ethics should remain in tact. Becoming an animal, we don't survive because we lost who we were and then become the wolves ourselves we're sworn to stop. Going over those scenarios of when we will pull, how we will, and establishing that line that if crossed we will react is natural and very important to anyone who carries a gun. Lowering that bar due to some imagined scenario where life is different, shouldn't because though life my be different, we shouldn't be. The day may come we have to do what we have to but deciding we will lower our morality is nothing more than giving it up before hand without a fight. Tj |
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If you are deemed a threat to me....my family....or my group....I will kill you as fast as I can.....and really don't care who is watching. My kids know that when it comes to their safety.....Daddy will do what ever it takes to keep them safe. I do not look forward to the possibility...in fact dread it very much....but I will not hesitate....and really do feel that I be able to cope with it. I know that is a pretty heavy statement....and most people may loose sleep over it.....but I would rather loose sleep over a perps dead body....than the body of one of my own. The TEOTWAWKI....or SHTF situation.....really drives home the statement..."Be polite to everyone you meet....but have a plan on how to kill them". This Without hesitation or remorse. |
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Just to play devils advocate. Lets say you catch someone snooping around your homestead. This person didnt steal anything, but you know he is a scout for a larger group looking to rob you and your family. This person has done nothing yet...except trespassing. You and your family at this point and time are in no harm.........but you know you will be as soon as he reports back to his group that there is a well fed, well supplied family close by.
What do you do? Do you use force? do you let him go and prepare for the larger group? Do you offer a peace offering? I guess alot of us could defend if attacked, but how many could preemptive and pull the trigger? Im not saying thats what SHOULD be done. Its just a hypothetical question. I think these would be the hard decisions to make. |
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I have read may of these threads however, no every speaks about killing others. Training is good but how much civilian training deals with actually killing others? you ready? Ever done it? Ever done it in front of your family (wife/so and kids)? Military training is all about killing others but what about you? If the time comes - the mental mindset must be there with the aftermath ramifications. Just saying. All my training centers around shooting at Bad Guys. All of it. If you are just plinking at the range without moving, reloading, using cover and transitioning to your back up, you are doing it wrong. . |
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Training is done to stop a threat. Find an area to live in where the community is strong and will start rebuilding. East tn has a strong history and is part of the bible belt. I doubt a scout would get shot for being a scout but his returning army would probably run into manned checkpoints at the chokepoints coming into this area and parasites would most likely be handled once they prove they are there to take from others. As far as settling old scores by popping people, I think people will band together and have a form of law to handle people like that. And there won't be nearly as many stops between someone murdering someone and getting the death penalty and being put down as there are today. I know just on my street the neighbors within a half mile to a mile of each other would work together. So if the scout was on my property he would be run off and the neighbors informed and we would go from there. But most likely I would wind up 5 or 10 miles down the road talking to people I know and mentioning the scout and we would prepare to deal with the ghetto rats or whatever is coming. There is a lot of crime in east tn. It is not perfect and I don't ever expect it to be perfect. But if tshtf I will be helping my neighbors and people I know and that spans a large area. There are a lot of good folks around here who would help others out as well. If something happens you first stop the backsliding and dig in. Then you work on rebuilding. What you rebuild may not be what we have today but I don't consider that a bad thing. There will be a form of law. There will be people working together. If you and yours wish to be hermits on your property then have at it. Don't come out and associate with society if you don't like the laws and rules of society. But I expect society to come back in a strong fashion. Anarchy won't reign around here. And threats are dealt with so you stop the threat. Many things can be a threat, so consider your actions and how others might take them. And one other thing I figure I may as well add, around here we still have moonshiners and all sorts of folks who flaunt the law and what not. But they are generally people you can do a deal with by just shaking hands instead of using a couple lawyers and a lot of ink. I expect when shtf people are going to have to live or die by their word and their handshake for a bit. I may have lots of ink and paper around but contracts are going to be short and sweet to conserve that ink and paper. |
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As many have already said, regardless of what you tell yourself, pointing a loaded weapon at another human isn't exactly like anything else.
You can keep telling yourself you will pull the trigger, you can keep training to pull the trigger, but until you actually do, there's no telling what will happen. You train to skew the odds in your favor, but until the event, there's no way to actually know. Even sometimes afterward, you won't remember whether you did or not. |
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As many have already said, regardless of what you tell yourself, pointing a loaded weapon at another human isn't exactly like anything else. You can keep telling yourself you will pull the trigger, you can keep training to pull the trigger, but until you actually do, there's no telling what will happen. You train to skew the odds in your favor, but until the event, there's no way to actually know. Even sometimes afterward, you won't remember whether you did or not. I disagree. It depends on the person. Some people have no problem with it. |
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I've been shot at, once, got caught downrange of a dope deal gone bad. I'd been shooting IPSC back before it became a game for race guns, and reacted how I trained - grab cover, assess, act. I was in another state that does not recognize any CCW permits other than their own, and was unarmed.
I spent the next few seconds looking for something to hit the bastard with if he came in my direction. I was friggin PISSED. Had I been armed, the shooter would not have made it to jail. I had a wife and kid that needed me, and this shitpile of a human being was just opening up on anything moving in his field of view. "Without mercy, without compassion, and without remorse" rings true. If there is a next time, (and honest to the Almighty, I hope there never is) the outcome will be different. I wonder where Band of Brothers sourced that quote. Ops |
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As many have already said, regardless of what you tell yourself, pointing a loaded weapon at another human isn't exactly like anything else. You can keep telling yourself you will pull the trigger, you can keep training to pull the trigger, but until you actually do, there's no telling what will happen. You train to skew the odds in your favor, but until the event, there's no way to actually know. Even sometimes afterward, you won't remember whether you did or not. I disagree. It depends on the person. Some people have no problem with it. I think that's what I said Some people will do so without hesitation or quibble, others won't be able to make themselves pull the trigger. And nobody ever knows for certain which camp they'll be in until after the fight
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Just to play devils advocate. Lets say you catch someone snooping around your homestead. This person didnt steal anything, but you know he is a scout for a larger group looking to rob you and your family. This person has done nothing yet...except trespassing. You and your family at this point and time are in no harm.........but you know you will be as soon as he reports back to his group that there is a well fed, well supplied family close by. What do you do? Do you use force? do you let him go and prepare for the larger group? Do you offer a peace offering? I guess alot of us could defend if attacked, but how many could preemptive and pull the trigger? Im not saying thats what SHOULD be done. Its just a hypothetical question. I think these would be the hard decisions to make. You know, a scout failing to return is a real big message to whoever sent him out in the first place... |
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Just to play devils advocate. Lets say you catch someone snooping around your homestead. This person didnt steal anything, but you know he is a scout for a larger group looking to rob you and your family. This person has done nothing yet...except trespassing. You and your family at this point and time are in no harm.........but you know you will be as soon as he reports back to his group that there is a well fed, well supplied family close by. What do you do? Do you use force? do you let him go and prepare for the larger group? Do you offer a peace offering? I guess alot of us could defend if attacked, but how many could preemptive and pull the trigger? Im not saying thats what SHOULD be done. Its just a hypothetical question. I think these would be the hard decisions to make. You know, a scout failing to return is a real big message to whoever sent him out in the first place... Thats the thing. Either way your going to be hosed. |
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Just to play devils advocate. Lets say you catch someone snooping around your homestead. This person didnt steal anything, but you know he is a scout for a larger group looking to rob you and your family. This person has done nothing yet...except trespassing. You and your family at this point and time are in no harm.........but you know you will be as soon as he reports back to his group that there is a well fed, well supplied family close by. What do you do? Do you use force? do you let him go and prepare for the larger group? Do you offer a peace offering? I guess alot of us could defend if attacked, but how many could preemptive and pull the trigger? Im not saying thats what SHOULD be done. Its just a hypothetical question. I think these would be the hard decisions to make. You know, a scout failing to return is a real big message to whoever sent him out in the first place... Thats the thing. Either way your going to be hosed. Go for broke, one way or another you're going to have a confrontation. Might as well be for a penny as a pound. |
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Just to play devils advocate. Lets say you catch someone snooping around your homestead. This person didnt steal anything, but you know he is a scout for a larger group looking to rob you and your family. This person has done nothing yet...except trespassing. You and your family at this point and time are in no harm.........but you know you will be as soon as he reports back to his group that there is a well fed, well supplied family close by. What do you do? Do you use force? do you let him go and prepare for the larger group? Do you offer a peace offering? I guess alot of us could defend if attacked, but how many could preemptive and pull the trigger? Im not saying thats what SHOULD be done. Its just a hypothetical question. I think these would be the hard decisions to make. You know, a scout failing to return is a real big message to whoever sent him out in the first place... Thats the thing. Either way your going to be hosed. Go for broke, one way or another you're going to have a confrontation. Might as well be for a penny as a pound. Wouldn't it depend on how much the scout had seen? Might be better to snow him a little, convince him there's way more of you way better armed than you really are. So he goes back and tells the boss that it's too big a boo and that it would probably be better to pass your group up for easier pickin's |
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Just to play devils advocate. Lets say you catch someone snooping around your homestead. This person didnt steal anything, but you know he is a scout for a larger group looking to rob you and your family. This person has done nothing yet...except trespassing. You and your family at this point and time are in no harm.........but you know you will be as soon as he reports back to his group that there is a well fed, well supplied family close by. What do you do? Do you use force? do you let him go and prepare for the larger group? Do you offer a peace offering? I guess alot of us could defend if attacked, but how many could preemptive and pull the trigger? Im not saying thats what SHOULD be done. Its just a hypothetical question. I think these would be the hard decisions to make. You know, a scout failing to return is a real big message to whoever sent him out in the first place... Thats the thing. Either way your going to be hosed. Go for broke, one way or another you're going to have a confrontation. Might as well be for a penny as a pound. Wouldn't it depend on how much the scout had seen? Might be better to snow him a little, convince him there's way more of you way better armed than you really are. So he goes back and tells the boss that it's too big a boo and that it would probably be better to pass your group up for easier pickin's Or make them attack harder with larger numbers |
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Ok, some of us have gone off the deep end, but a few sound like stand-up guys that I wish were my neighbors.
Personally, I don't believe there's much to be gained here due to the bravado and bs, but some basic war-gaming makes sense; issues that sound like something out of mad max/ the road will already have clear answers that have developed over time. The basic "How to deal with beggars" and such is a good one. Knocking off strangers and nosey neighbors is a bit much. This stuff is so situational... your reponse to a neighbor coming over asking for some food during the first month of an economic collapse is going to different than roving hoards of city dwellers trying to steal your chickens. You will need friends and allies willing to stand watch, take up arms...there's a prep right there. |
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Just to play devils advocate. Lets say you catch someone snooping around your homestead. This person didnt steal anything, but you know he is a scout for a larger group looking to rob you and your family. This person has done nothing yet...except trespassing. You and your family at this point and time are in no harm.........but you know you will be as soon as he reports back to his group that there is a well fed, well supplied family close by. What do you do? Do you use force? do you let him go and prepare for the larger group? Do you offer a peace offering? I guess alot of us could defend if attacked, but how many could preemptive and pull the trigger? Im not saying thats what SHOULD be done. Its just a hypothetical question. I think these would be the hard decisions to make. You know, a scout failing to return is a real big message to whoever sent him out in the first place... Thats the thing. Either way your going to be hosed. Go for broke, one way or another you're going to have a confrontation. Might as well be for a penny as a pound. Wouldn't it depend on how much the scout had seen? Might be better to snow him a little, convince him there's way more of you way better armed than you really are. So he goes back and tells the boss that it's too big a boo and that it would probably be better to pass your group up for easier pickin's Or make them attack harder with larger numbers You assume an infinite supply of goons. "Oh, they got more guys, I'll just decant a few more minions! That'll sort things out!" 
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| I orginally brought this up because after two years of reading good information, I never saw this addressed. Clearly, the issue is situationational: place, time, occurance. I have always been surprised at how few people in the US there are who have not been either in the military or LE and therefore lack the knowledge, skills or mindset to use (deadly) force if necessary. I just believe that it is one of the skill sets necessary if (big if) there is a situation/occurace and to that end, needs to be addressed as part of a well prepaired plan (either as an individual, family or group). Just saying .... |
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Have you ever taken "civi" training? I'd say 20% of every good carbine or pistol class I've taken has covered mindset before, and dealing with the aftermath after that will follow you for the rest of your life.
Not all of them do, but the good ones cover it extensively. |
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If it goes tits up to the point where this becomes an issue, I'll spend my time trying to be invisible. It is generally a better idea to avoid fights than to jump into them. If that becomes impossible, then I know myself well, and am not worried about pulling the trigger. I am lucky enough to have gotten through my military days without having to kill anyone, but I've drawn on a number of people overseas and come close, and never felt that I wouldn't be able to do it. On those occasions where I had someone in sights I wasn't thinking "Oh shit, is this really happening, can I do it..." or anything, more along the lines of "Dumbass, don't move, this'll really screw up my off-duty plans for today...". I suppose it's situational, but I don't see it as a problem as long as I see the target as a true threat. That said, unless I see someone as an immediate threat I am not going to do it. The guys in the driveway asking for beans are more likely to get some beans than bullets in the ass, but if they come with guns and demand it that is a different story.
While our society has grown away from violence, the instinct for self-preservation is so deeply ingrained into our being that I think it'll generally resurface when needed. The presence of an immediate and undeniable threat will prompt most people to action, though initially confusion and denial (this can't really be happening, right?) may rule. Most people are in condition white day-to-day, but during SHTF generally automatically go yellow. Getting to red is not hard if your life is threatened. I agree that those who are in shoot first, ask questions later mode in SHTF will be the first to die, though. Trigger happy neighbors will not be viewed favorably by their peers. Society will reorganize in some way and order will be imposed, and the lone nut sitting on top of his MRE crates blasting away at anyone who steers too close will be dealt with. |
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I think training is a huge deal. Especially for people that have never been in bad stuff. That was the point I was trying to make with my post...sorry it was done poorly.
There are a lot of people that think they will be ok and know what to do just because they have a gun. A lot think they will just be rambo and know what do when the time comes. I think that mindset, training, decision making skills while looking at the big picture...as well as luck, will be a large part of being able to survive. |