Posted: 8/25/2010 4:29:17 PM EDT
| Just looking for some reviews on these...I've got a diesel tractor...33 HP at the PTO...so I'm wondering if anybody has some practical experience with PTO generators...thoughts? |
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got one of these...
Model 6871-0 watts 30,000 phase 1 volts 120/240 hertz 60 amps 250/125 rpm 3600 * class f winding insulation @ 40 deg GENERAC corp Waukesha, Wis 60kw surge/ 30kw continous * 540 pto drive.....( built in gear box ) 1....240v...50 amp outlet. 2....120v...15 amp outlets it'll run just about anything.....but now have a couple different gennys.....it is impractical to move around. if you can get a deal on it...run with it. |
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General figure is 2hp at the PTO per watt. This is a design value, not a law of physics, so you can excede it it you accept the additional wear and/or abnormal operation (lower frequency).
Also be aware, to get 60 hz power, the generator needs to run at 550 rpms, which is running the tractor wide open. I'll be most people aren;t used to running at tractor wide open near their house. If you alternative was a smaller generators, you might like the reduced sound and fuel consumption. if you need 15 kw, fine. |
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Tractor rear PTO are usually rated for 540 RPM or 1000 RPM. The tractor and generator need to use the same PTO RPM speed. Most smaller generators are designed for the 540 RPM.
As stated, most PTO generators will require about 2 horse power per kilo watt potential generated. If you have a hydrostatic tractor, you should take about 4 or 5 horse power from the rated engine value to figure the generator wattage limitations. |
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General figure is 2hp at the PTO per watt. So you'd need 2,000 HP to generate 1KW...Sweet! 
Oops. Just missed a unit. Just off by 100,000% margin of error. Should be 2hp per KILL A WATT. That's embarassing. Not as bad as they guy who messed up kilograms and pounds and ran a 767 out of fuel. But still. As to the hp, thats PTO hp. Quite a bit less then engine hp, but as long as you are measuring PTO hp, it doesn't matter what kind of tranny. |
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General figure is 2hp at the PTO per watt. So you'd need 2,000 HP to generate 1KW...Sweet!
Oops. Just missed a unit. Just off by 100,000% margin of error. Should be 2hp per KILL A WATT. That's embarassing. Not as bad as they guy who messed up kilograms and pounds and ran a 767 out of fuel. But still. As to the hp, thats PTO hp. Quite a bit less then engine hp, but as long as you are measuring PTO hp, it doesn't matter what kind of tranny. 
I can imagine it "oh.. uh... my bad guys.." |
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I have a 25Kw Winco that I usually run with my smaller John Deere 870 (28hp) but for an extened outage I would get one of my Dad's tractors (we both have Winco's). He has a couple of the old David Browns that have a two speed (540/1000 rpm) PTO's. It uses the same 6 spline shaft for both speeds, just engage the lever forward or backward for the different speeds.
As long as we aren't running anything with a heavy draw it works fine at 1000 rpm at half throttle, even when the well pump kicks on. If we are s running an aircompressor or welder we need to engage the 540 side and run at nearly full thottle. When running at half thottle we burn about 3/4 gallon of fuel per hour and at full thottle we burn about one and a half, to two gallons per hour. |
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I have a 25Kw Winco that I usually run with my smaller John Deere 870 (28hp) but for an extened outage I would get one of my Dad's tractors (we both have Winco's). He has a couple of the old David Browns that have a two speed (540/1000 rpm) PTO's. It uses the same 6 spline shaft for both speeds, just engage the lever forward or backward for the different speeds. As long as we aren't running anything with a heavy draw it works fine at 1000 rpm at half throttle, even when the well pump kicks on. If we are s running an aircompressor or welder we need to engage the 540 side and run at nearly full thottle. When running at half thottle we burn about 3/4 gallon of fuel per hour and at full thottle we burn about one and a half, to two gallons per hour. Are these diesel or gasoline tractors? |
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I do not get the KWs claimed from these. These seem rated for double the plugs they have available.. Are there direct hookups for hard wiring them to get the 20 or 30KW advertised?
30kw and 60kw surge but only has one 50 amp 220 and 2 15 amp 110 outlets? That comes out to 130 amps or 15.6kw correct? |
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Just looking for some reviews on these...I've got a diesel tractor...33 HP at the PTO...so I'm wondering if anybody has some practical experience with PTO generators...thoughts? We have a couple of 13KW Northstar PTO generators that we use on our farm/nursery. Rated for 24hp tractors.Northern Tool We set them up on small trailers, but I think we would be just as happy if they were mounted to 3pt arms. My father & I bought them during the hurricane we had in 2004. We went and stayed with my parents in their 2,500 ft2 house and wired one of the generators directly into their breaker box. We ran the entire house with A/C, Fridge, two freezers, lights, stove, water heater, etc with it. What amazed me was that it had no problem starting & running their 7.5hp submersable well. I started out running it with a 45hp tractor with a 540pto, but it took quite a bit of fuel because it was overpowered & running full throttle. Next, I switched it to a 25hp, 540pto tractor & it used about 1/2 to 1/3 the amount of fuel, but it really grunted when the 7.5hp pump kicked on. It has been a while, but I think it used 5-8gal of diesel per day. I had an Onan 13KW generator we loaned to a friend, and it almost ate him out of house & home, using 20-30gal per day. I couldn't believe how much fuel it used & was really happy we went the diesel route. We are out in the country, but heard rumors of people having their generators stolen at night, in subdivisions, because it was easy to locate them by the noise. The theives would take a push-type lawn mower & leave it running in the victim's yard while they stole the generator. The owners would keep sleeping, thinking they were hearing their generator running. I have used the pto generators quite a bit over the last 6 years. I had one running continuously for about 8 hours a day for about 6mo-1yr & finally has something electrical break. We had it fixed for about $200, and has done fine for the past 6 months, or so. This one stays outside in the elements 24/7. The second one we have hooked to a tractor & electric welder & it gets used about a month or two per year, for 40hrs/week & haven't had a minute of trouble out of it. It is keept in a barn when not being used. I can't imagine a house needing more than a 13KW generator. I've heard of people buying much larger ones than these, but, in my opinion, you're just asking for a bigger fuel bill. I think your 33hp tractor would be great to run a house. It's nice to have the option of changing power sources if you have a problem with a tractor, or something. |
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I'll add a few operational notes..
Bought ours in 1999, used. So far we have put about 25 to 30 hours on it, couple of winter storms and surprisingly a couple of summer T-storms were enough to leave us dark for eight hours each. When we bought it, I had an older Deutz 40 HP tractor which was more than enough power for a 15kW gennie. Deutz is well known for efficient fuel use and went thru about 1 gallon per hour with little or no attempt at conservation when it came to loading it. The only problem was when the electric backup heat on the 3nd floor heat pump cut in at the same time the electric water heater was running. in 2006 we sold the Deutz and bought a Kubota HST1700. The Kubota is rated at 17 HP, which by using the formula, should only pull about 9kW. In actuality, we can run up to about 11 or 12 kW before we start lugging the engine down. Diesels have much higher torque than gas engines, and I suspect the Kubota and the Deutz are under-rated as to PTO HP. The Kubota runs about 3 qts/hr under normal use. In the summer when we don't use electricity for heat, the Kubota keeps up just fine. We have to manage loads a little bit for winter use. A dedicated diesel engine/genset may use a bit less fuel, altho not by a significant amount. We were able to afford a much bigger gennie by using a PTO set up. and eliminates having an engine we paid for sit and do nothing for 8 to 12 hours of operation per year. I'd rather have more gennie than tractor. If we overload, the tractor makes a lotta noise and smokes like crazy, and we don't burn up the generator. The smaller tractor is much quieter, we run it in an enclosed garage with the bay doors and windows open to provide some shelter. We inspect the rig about once per hour when running. It sure beats a gasoline engine 5 kW rig. Ops |
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I have a 25Kw Winco that I usually run with my smaller John Deere 870 (28hp) but for an extened outage I would get one of my Dad's tractors (we both have Winco's). He has a couple of the old David Browns that have a two speed (540/1000 rpm) PTO's. It uses the same 6 spline shaft for both speeds, just engage the lever forward or backward for the different speeds. As long as we aren't running anything with a heavy draw it works fine at 1000 rpm at half throttle, even when the well pump kicks on. If we are s running an aircompressor or welder we need to engage the 540 side and run at nearly full thottle. When running at half thottle we burn about 3/4 gallon of fuel per hour and at full thottle we burn about one and a half, to two gallons per hour. Are these diesel or gasoline tractors? David Brown had the 990 series and Case had a 995 series. Basically the same tractor both were diesel. I think there is a 885/895 series that is a gasser. |
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I do not get the KWs claimed from these. These seem rated for double the plugs they have available.. Are there direct hookups for hard wiring them to get the 20 or 30KW advertised? 30kw and 60kw surge but only has one 50 amp 220 and 2 15 amp 110 outlets? That comes out to 130 amps or 15.6kw correct? What else would they give you? No farmers or homeowners use the $300+ hubbell pine and sleave connectors that are the next step up past 50A. If you need more then 50A you direct wire. Most of the larger units are really intended for backup power to confinement operations (poultry, hogs) or maybe a dairy, where animals will die without electricity. A few farmers use them to run large electrical machinery due to the power companies in the past not allowing any single phase motor bigger then 7.5 hp and not wanting to bring 3 phase out to a lot of farms. The 50A plug is probally there mostly for a welder, though it would work for a whole house. As to the poster who said they run their tractor at half throttle- Be aware that will give you 30 Hz power and will burn up motors under load. If you need 60 Hz, you have to turn the generator at rated speed. Thats what makes the honda inverters so efficient, they avoid this. |
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I do not get the KWs claimed from these. These seem rated for double the plugs they have available.. Are there direct hookups for hard wiring them to get the 20 or 30KW advertised? 30kw and 60kw surge but only has one 50 amp 220 and 2 15 amp 110 outlets? That comes out to 130 amps or 15.6kw correct? What else would they give you? No farmers or homeowners use the $300+ hubbell pine and sleave connectors that are the next step up past 50A. If you need more then 50A you direct wire. Most of the larger units are really intended for backup power to confinement operations (poultry, hogs) or maybe a dairy, where animals will die without electricity. A few farmers use them to run large electrical machinery due to the power companies in the past not allowing any single phase motor bigger then 7.5 hp and not wanting to bring 3 phase out to a lot of farms. The 50A plug is probally there mostly for a welder, though it would work for a whole house. As to the poster who said they run their tractor at half throttle- Be aware that will give you 30 Hz power and will burn up motors under load. If you need 60 Hz, you have to turn the generator at rated speed. Thats what makes the honda inverters so efficient, they avoid this. Your not getting my question. They are rated very high but it appears you can not use half of the ratings because of plug limitations. Therefore I asked if you could wire into them directly and receive the full potential. Why are they rated so high if you can not use all the power. It makes no logical sense to me. |
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As to the poster who said they run their tractor at half throttle- Be aware that will give you 30 Hz power and will burn up motors under load. If you need 60 Hz, you have to turn the generator at rated speed. Thats what makes the honda inverters so efficient, they avoid this. Just to clear that up, the generator is turning at rated speed. The tractor (55hp) has a two speed PTO gear box allowing the six spline shaft to turn at either 540 or 1000 rpm. We run the needle on the genny in the green using the 1000 rpm side of the tractor gear box allowing the engine to run about half thottle. We only do this when we have light demand. When we are using larger eletric motors, ie: air compressors, cooling compressors or while welding we run it with the 540 RPM side at nearly full thottle. |
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I do not get the KWs claimed from these. These seem rated for double the plugs they have available.. Are there direct hookups for hard wiring them to get the 20 or 30KW advertised? 30kw and 60kw surge but only has one 50 amp 220 and 2 15 amp 110 outlets? That comes out to 130 amps or 15.6kw correct? What else would they give you? No farmers or homeowners use the $300+ hubbell pine and sleave connectors that are the next step up past 50A. If you need more then 50A you direct wire. Most of the larger units are really intended for backup power to confinement operations (poultry, hogs) or maybe a dairy, where animals will die without electricity. A few farmers use them to run large electrical machinery due to the power companies in the past not allowing any single phase motor bigger then 7.5 hp and not wanting to bring 3 phase out to a lot of farms. The 50A plug is probally there mostly for a welder, though it would work for a whole house. As to the poster who said they run their tractor at half throttle- Be aware that will give you 30 Hz power and will burn up motors under load. If you need 60 Hz, you have to turn the generator at rated speed. Thats what makes the honda inverters so efficient, they avoid this. Your not getting my question. They are rated very high but it appears you can not use half of the ratings because of plug limitations. Therefore I asked if you could wire into them directly and receive the full potential. Why are they rated so high if you can not use all the power. It makes no logical sense to me. The higher rating is for surge rating, not continuous load. I should use the ammeter next time I crak up the genset and see what my house pulls at startup. HomeSlice, I have a line wired into the main panel with a circuit breaker disconnect in the garage with a 50 amp breaker in it, and a short pigtail with a 60 amp plug to hook into the generator. I've seen guys use a double male 6 guage pigtail that plugs into a dryer outlet. Not exactly code.. Ops |
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Your not getting my question. They are rated very high but it appears you can not use half of the ratings because of plug limitations. Therefore I asked if you could wire into them directly and receive the full potential. Why are they rated so high if you can not use all the power. It makes no logical sense to me. I understood, maybe my answer wasn't clear. You can direct wire. But as far as plugs, anything over 50A is really expensive (like $300 for the pair). So they put the biggest cheap plug they can get (50A) and if you want more you have to direct wire. What I don't know is if the 50A plug is protected by a 50A breaker. If it isn't you could get more power out for short terms. The NEC actually allows this for welders because the load can't posabally have a 100% duty cycle. Also, it is convention on larger generators that the generator has female plug on a cord, while the building has a fixed mount male plug. So even with the Hubbell, it's not much more work to direct wire the plug with welding cable. |
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As to the poster who said they run their tractor at half throttle- Be aware that will give you 30 Hz power and will burn up motors under load. If you need 60 Hz, you have to turn the generator at rated speed. Thats what makes the honda inverters so efficient, they avoid this. Just to clear that up, the generator is turning at rated speed. The tractor (55hp) has a two speed PTO gear box allowing the six spline shaft to turn at either 540 or 1000 rpm. We run the needle on the genny in the green using the 1000 rpm side of the tractor gear box allowing the engine to run about half thottle. We only do this when we have light demand. When we are using larger eletric motors, ie: air compressors, cooling compressors or while welding we run it with the 540 RPM side at nearly full thottle. If you had a higher HP tractor (say 100HP) could you run the generator on the 1000PTO at half throttle even under heavy load? |
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I do not get the KWs claimed from these. These seem rated for double the plugs they have available.. Are there direct hookups for hard wiring them to get the 20 or 30KW advertised? 30kw and 60kw surge but only has one 50 amp 220 and 2 15 amp 110 outlets? That comes out to 130 amps or 15.6kw correct? What else would they give you? No farmers or homeowners use the $300+ hubbell pine and sleave connectors that are the next step up past 50A. If you need more then 50A you direct wire. Most of the larger units are really intended for backup power to confinement operations (poultry, hogs) or maybe a dairy, where animals will die without electricity. A few farmers use them to run large electrical machinery due to the power companies in the past not allowing any single phase motor bigger then 7.5 hp and not wanting to bring 3 phase out to a lot of farms. The 50A plug is probally there mostly for a welder, though it would work for a whole house. As to the poster who said they run their tractor at half throttle- Be aware that will give you 30 Hz power and will burn up motors under load. If you need 60 Hz, you have to turn the generator at rated speed. Thats what makes the honda inverters so efficient, they avoid this. Your not getting my question. They are rated very high but it appears you can not use half of the ratings because of plug limitations. Therefore I asked if you could wire into them directly and receive the full potential. Why are they rated so high if you can not use all the power. It makes no logical sense to me. Use 2 50A plugs and two 50A recptcals, or 3 lol. Or buy a honda. |
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If you had a higher HP tractor (say 100HP) could you run the generator on the 1000PTO at half throttle even under heavy load? Only if it was a small generator relative to the tractor (heavy load for the generator/light load for the tractor). Tractors don't produce much power at 1/2 rated speed. The JD Economy PTO mode slows the tractor (I'm close, but maybe not exact) form 2200 to 1700 rpms. which give a nice fuel and noise reduction with out leaving the PTO almost useless. But if you are just tryign to run the house, and you allready have a 100hp tractor, you might as well do it. They are some reallty old small tractors that have 1000 rpm PTOs also. |
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I had one that I bought from Northern Tool. It was the smallest one they offered. 6K watts I think.
I ran it on my Kubota BX1850 which is 2-3 PTO HP less than what they recommend. It got us through 12 days without power after IKE and it worked like a champ. But..... Not only did I have to run the Kubota at WOT to keep the PTO at 550, and keep the generator at 60Hz but the generator itself was LOUD! It had a growl to it that could easily be heard down the street. I even changed the gear oil and double checked to make sure I had the right stuff in it, but the gears were still loud. Really loud. Did I mention the gears were loud? Kubota WOT and a howling generator is not going to be helpful when you don't want everyone to know you've got power. It's a cheap alternative for the amount of power you get, but I did not like running my tractor at WOT. It is now paid for and I don't want to subject it to the extra wear and tear. So, I sold the PTO generator and bought a nice quiet Honda. Hope this helps. kegger |
| Unless you BX is really quieter then I think, You probally got a long end model. I've seen a number of them, and most were not obvious over the tractor, though if you grew up arround tractors, you could hear an unfamiliar noise (like a bushog, but completely different sound.). |
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I had one that I bought from Northern Tool. It was the smallest one they offered. 6K watts I think. I ran it on my Kubota BX1850 which is 2-3 PTO HP less than what they recommend. It got us through 12 days without power after IKE and it worked like a champ. But..... Not only did I have to run the Kubota at WOT to keep the PTO at 550, and keep the generator at 60Hz but the generator itself was LOUD! It had a growl to it that could easily be heard down the street. I even changed the gear oil and double checked to make sure I had the right stuff in it, but the gears were still loud. Really loud. Did I mention the gears were loud? Kubota WOT and a howling generator is not going to be helpful when you don't want everyone to know you've got power. It's a cheap alternative for the amount of power you get, but I did not like running my tractor at WOT. It is now paid for and I don't want to subject it to the extra wear and tear. So, I sold the PTO generator and bought a nice quiet Honda. Hope this helps. kegger To eliminate confusion here, the "throttle" on a tractor does not control power output, it controls engine speed. Power is controlled by a "governor" on the engine, which directly controls engine throttle to keep the RPM constant. You can run it with the hand "throttle" at the full speed position, and it may have the actual engine throttle barely cracked open depending on load. Tractors are equipped with an RPM limit in the governor that will prevent engine overspeed. "Full throttle" with the control lever means maximum rated speed, which is usually where the engine can develop the most power. The engine is designed to run at that speed for the life of the engine if necessary. I think the full rated speed on my 17 HP Kubota is somewhere around 2700 RPM and it is designed to run at that speed, with a full load, for thousands of hours. Tractors are industrial machines and designed accordingly. the noise level is indeed high, no doubt about it. If you live in a rural area, the sound of a tractor working at full throttle is just normal background noise. If you live elsewhere and only hear lawnmowers, the noise will stand out. I run my setup in a garage with the bay doors open, it does tend to at least direct the sound in one direction. Ops |
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I had one that I bought from Northern Tool. It was the smallest one they offered. 6K watts I think. I ran it on my Kubota BX1850 which is 2-3 PTO HP less than what they recommend. It got us through 12 days without power after IKE and it worked like a champ. But..... Not only did I have to run the Kubota at WOT to keep the PTO at 550, and keep the generator at 60Hz but the generator itself was LOUD! It had a growl to it that could easily be heard down the street. I even changed the gear oil and double checked to make sure I had the right stuff in it, but the gears were still loud. Really loud. Did I mention the gears were loud? Kubota WOT and a howling generator is not going to be helpful when you don't want everyone to know you've got power. It's a cheap alternative for the amount of power you get, but I did not like running my tractor at WOT. It is now paid for and I don't want to subject it to the extra wear and tear. So, I sold the PTO generator and bought a nice quiet Honda. Hope this helps. kegger To eliminate confusion here, the "throttle" on a tractor does not control power output, it controls engine speed. Power is controlled by a "governor" on the engine, which directly controls engine throttle to keep the RPM constant. You can run it with the hand "throttle" at the full speed position, and it may have the actual engine throttle barely cracked open depending on load. Tractors are equipped with an RPM limit in the governor that will prevent engine overspeed. "Full throttle" with the control lever means maximum rated speed, which is usually where the engine can develop the most power. The engine is designed to run at that speed for the life of the engine if necessary. I think the full rated speed on my 17 HP Kubota is somewhere around 2700 RPM and it is designed to run at that speed, with a full load, for thousands of hours. Tractors are industrial machines and designed accordingly. the noise level is indeed high, no doubt about it. If you live in a rural area, the sound of a tractor working at full throttle is just normal background noise. If you live elsewhere and only hear lawnmowers, the noise will stand out. I run my setup in a garage with the bay doors open, it does tend to at least direct the sound in one direction. Ops I hope your garage is detached from the house. Grove |