Posted: 7/17/2010 8:12:00 PM EDT
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Anyone have any info or links on prepping a small car such as a honda to be a decently equipped BOV?
Needing something more reliable and fuel efficient than the current setup and miss my older honda. |
| I like our Element because it can fits lots of stuff. Now I'm an urban cowboy so I opted for the SC model with carpeted floors and 2WD, but a base model 4wd model should be pretty good for light off road and wet/snow covered roads. Honda doesn't make anything that is really off road worthy except for the Ridgeline but that's a unibody. |
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Part of the reason for going smaller was because I average 18,000+ miles a year....The gas mileage difference would save me a couple hundred a month. Plus MX bills and headaches etc...
My current ride is an 01 XJ thats turned into a problem child and I'm done with it. |
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Run some searches on subaru stuff and mercedes veggie oil conversions. I think it is on expedition portal where a guy is taking a mercedes car with the diesel engine and planning to go all over the world if not around the world. Since folks modify subaru vehicles for more ground clearance and stuff they are probably also doing lots of mods for storage and fuel and what not. You are kind of playing in a fringe area so you just need to see what folks do to other vehicles and see about doing it to your vehicle. Since ricers tend to like stereos I would probably see where they hide woofers and amps in whatever honda you get since they make great use of space. I would see what people break as they hop up their ricer and you will learn the weak links in your vehicle. And researching people living in cars would also help you with space. The biggest thing with any vehicle is getting it weighed and watching how much you put on it. From a motorcycle to a class 8 white 6x6 semi tractor you can overload the sucker and overstress parts. You need to find the middle ground where you are prepped ok but not overloading the vehicle. One things I learned from a 96 oldsmobile bravada is that running it near its max weight capacity really hurts fuel mileage if doing stop and go traffic and it can quickly wear out parts. Moving up to a larger vehicle and running it at a similar weight as the bravada let the bigger vehicle not work as hard so its engine did better on mileage and its parts were not wearing out quickly. I live in the country on a gravel road and some of my friends and relatives also live on gravel roads so something with a bit of ground clearance will always be what I own. A lot of cars are just low to the ground when it comes to rutted and washed out gravel roads and driveways. A subaru or tj's chrysler thingy with the sports package have 9 inches or so of ground clearance and that is a lot since that is about what my stock 07 grand cherokee has I think. Some cars seem to be around 6 inches but I admit to not measuring it. And I am not above ripping off plastic ground effects if they are the lowest item on the vehicle, but messing with aerodynamic stuff can mess up your mileage. |
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Does the BOV paradigm always include the off-road element? I ponder this often, because I'd venture that 85% of the survivalist/prepper-types who ask these questions are neither mechanically-inclined, nor do they have any intentions of any off-highway getaways. They just want to get to a safer place, hopefully one they have prearranged. I also think that a majority of posters here also live in urban/suburban areas where offroading isnt an option - just escape and evade. The OP is asking for a more fuel-efficient ride, and didnt specify a 4WD. I just find it curious how these threads always drift off into a preconceived notion of offroad being the end-all for a BOV.
I'm in no way chastizing the posters here for doing this, I am only musing over the way we think sometimes. |
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Quoted:
Does the BOV paradigm always include the off-road element? I ponder this often, because I'd venture that 85% of the survivalist/prepper-types who ask these questions are neither mechanically-inclined, nor do they have any intentions of any off-highway getaways. They just want to get to a safer place, hopefully one they have prearranged. I also think that a majority of posters here also live in urban/suburban areas where offroading isnt an option - just escape and evade. The OP is asking for a more fuel-efficient ride, and didnt specify a 4WD. I just find it curious how these threads always drift off into a preconceived notion of offroad being the end-all for a BOV. I'm in no way chastizing the posters here for doing this, I am only musing over the way we think sometimes. If roads are congested and you need to GTFO... you are gonna hope you have adequate ground clearance when you take off on the shoulder |
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Quoted:
Does the BOV paradigm always include the off-road element? I ponder this often, because I'd venture that 85% of the survivalist/prepper-types who ask these questions are neither mechanically-inclined, nor do they have any intentions of any off-highway getaways. They just want to get to a safer place, hopefully one they have prearranged. I also think that a majority of posters here also live in urban/suburban areas where offroading isnt an option - just escape and evade. The OP is asking for a more fuel-efficient ride, and didnt specify a 4WD. I just find it curious how these threads always drift off into a preconceived notion of offroad being the end-all for a BOV. I'm in no way chastizing the posters here for doing this, I am only musing over the way we think sometimes. Yes BOV threads do consistently go off road, rock crawling, and mud bogging. rrflyer, I have taken a Toyota Corrola driving on dirt roads that were labeled 4x4 mandatory by the management of Big Bend national park. As biere said; match your load to the vehicle and buy a vehicle that is sturdy enough that your normal load is in the middle of the car's abilities. Saving money on fuel: I have never been able to make fuel economy pay for a car. The most efficient answer that I have found is to buy the most efficient vehicle that meets my needs and has some reserve capacity. So really what are your regular needs? Find a vehicle class that meets these needs, then pick the most efficient vehicle––that you like––in class. |
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Quoted:
Part of the reason for going smaller was because I average 18,000+ miles a year....The gas mileage difference would save me a couple hundred a month. Plus MX bills and headaches etc... with that mileage you're quickly destroying whatever you drive. so a lightly used vehicle makes sense. expensive or extensive mods don't make much sense. i'd want something with good clearance so it could go over a curb or median. they look like a toaster or shoebox, but the Scion XB reportedly has a lot of room inside and they're cheap when new... but not much clearance. |
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Mileage/mpg as I see it:
Truck 15 mpg Car 30 mpg 20,000 miles per year Truck = 1333 gallons Car = 666 gallons @$2.75 gallon Truck = $3665 Car = $1832 (numbers will vary some obviously) so you "save" $1832, unless you have to rent a Uhaul or trailer or borrow a friends truck more then a few times per year (or want to buy "bug out insurance"). I can/do camp and sleep in my truck, I can haul 6 adults and all their crap while pulling a trailer with even more crap thru off road trails. In a SHTF situation and you need to push your way thru, or winch your way thru, truck wins. You want to haul all your getouttatown crap, plus tools for extrication (chainsaws/shovels/picks/jacks) etc, truck is the way to go. IMHO a BugOut = one goal : get the hell outta dodge to where it's "safe". A 4x4 truck allows you to go farther off the beaten path, get to more places with less trouble, and haul more to that safer spot. Cars can't go where 4x4 trucks can. Sure they can go down a path etc, but a truck can go down that same path, pass the stuck/broken car, pick up it's passengers and gear and keep on going. In a really bad/long term situation, my truck can also take the place of a tractor, and crane and bulldozer if need be with a few expedient modifications. When I'm done with it, it'll be able to do a lot more, but even in stock form I'd take it over a car any day for any type of BO and it's damn well worth the $2k/yr hit on fuel to have the capabilities and "insurance" sitting out in the driveway. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Does the BOV paradigm always include the off-road element? I ponder this often, because I'd venture that 85% of the survivalist/prepper-types who ask these questions are neither mechanically-inclined, nor do they have any intentions of any off-highway getaways. They just want to get to a safer place, hopefully one they have prearranged. I also think that a majority of posters here also live in urban/suburban areas where offroading isnt an option - just escape and evade. The OP is asking for a more fuel-efficient ride, and didnt specify a 4WD. I just find it curious how these threads always drift off into a preconceived notion of offroad being the end-all for a BOV. I'm in no way chastizing the posters here for doing this, I am only musing over the way we think sometimes. Yes BOV threads do consistently go off road, rock crawling, and mud bogging. rrflyer, I have taken a Toyota Corrola driving on dirt roads that were labeled 4x4 mandatory by the management of Big Bend national park. As biere said; match your load to the vehicle and buy a vehicle that is sturdy enough that your normal load is in the middle of the car's abilities. Saving money on fuel: I have never been able to make fuel economy pay for a car. The most efficient answer that I have found is to buy the most efficient vehicle that meets my needs and has some reserve capacity. So really what are your regular needs? Find a vehicle class that meets these needs, then pick the most efficient vehicle––that you like––in class. That's pretty much exactly what I advocated in my BOV=CCW thread. Assess your needs, both as a daily driver and your likely planned BO route and terrain. Pick a car that meets those needs, and go on from there. |
| I've never given a whole lot of thought to the BOV - we live in our BOL, plus have full size 4x4 vehicles in the unlikely event we did have to go. But it seems to me that a small trailer makes more sense for the smaller vehicles, especially since you are prepping for a fairly unlikely event, therefore you can use your car for what its intended. Seems much more pratical to me - why drive a big gas guzzler if you don't otherwise need one? |
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I've never given a whole lot of thought to the BOV - we live in our BOL, plus have full size 4x4 vehicles in the unlikely event we did have to go. But it seems to me that a small trailer makes more sense for the smaller vehicles, especially since you are prepping for a fairly unlikely event, therefore you can use your car for what its intended. Seems much more pratical to me - why drive a big gas guzzler if you don't otherwise need one? Which all comes down to your survival way of thinking and how likely YOU think things will happen to YOU and yours. Mine's different, so's joes and so's bobs. FWIW I use my truck. It's a DD, but it's also a damnfine BOV. Could I get by with a car and a trailer(and associated cost/taxes/upkeep etc)? maybe, but I'd have to make a lot of sacrifices that IMHO far outweigh any "gas guzzling" that I pay for (and pay the extra taxes for etc) |
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Skid plates. A lot of the damage done to cars by off-roading can be ameliorated by strategically located skid plates. And good wheels/tires. And a bit of training. Air shocks can also help, as they can be run relatively soft for daily driving, and pumped up when you need the extra clearance/hauling ability.
But mostly practice. Too many people mince when they should be slaloming. Mincing will get you stuck, while slaloming will skate you through many hazards. You just have to keep an eye on where you're going so you don't slide into/over the wrong thing. Sadly, the only way to really learn is to acquire an old beater and thrash it. Don't be afraid of dents or scratches, or you're doomed before you start. And that grinding noise is harmless, ignore it  That's just your car skidding across that high curb on its belly. Unless you minced. If you minced, that means you're about to be stuck. Hope you brought a jack.
I do think I begin to see the dichotomy with the term "off road", though. The reflexive answer I see is often, "gridlock = Baja runner. The actual case, though, is generally different. On the big roads, you're looking at medians and verges that are graded. If what you're talking about is leaving the pavement while the sheeple stare longingly at the distance and safety while they idle away their gasoline, just about anything that'll run down the road can handle 90% of the verges. Secondary roads with deep ditches are a problem, of course. But they're a problem with the average 4x4 as well. And, barring deep water, there are ways to handle those too. |
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With all the flooding that seems to happen these days I kind of want something that can handle a foot or so of water. I reckon most cars can handle that short term, will probably take some mods to handle it long term. You have to make sure the road is there of course but I generally let someone go ahead of me and see what they get into before venturing into it. My jeep does a foot of water with ease. The ground clearance is more than just off roading. I once came up on the remains of a dead deer in the road and while I got slowed down it was a divided 4 lane highway and I had someone tailgating me and beside me so I chose to run it over. My car did fine even with lots of noise from going over it. Car behind me had stuff hitting its lower front air dam and had to pull over as it got pulled loose. Car was a 96 z28 camaro and there were minor scuff marks on the oilpan and what not. I knew from previous poking around that the little airdam on the camaro would flex and if it got into the nose of the car then damage would be done. I did get off the brakes and hit the gas to give it more of a nose up attitude as I went over the deer. Curbs, trees in the road, debris in the road, and similar stuff is what I am thinking about with ground clearance. Skid plates are good but I want some minor clearance to start with. I loved how high up my dodge dually sat from the factory but it would suck to have it for my only vehicle these days because it would not even get close to warmed up going to and from work these days. My jeep does not have a ton of ground clearance but it is a good start and skid plates are offered for it beyond factory stuff since it is somewhat common. The mercedes I mentioned in my first post got a factory skidplate for the oilpan I think, not offered in the usa but dude ordered it and got it. |
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You want another Honda? Buy it.
I bet you will be driving to work and the grocery more than bugging out. If you need to split, take what you can. If you know where you are going, you may be able to pre-position some gear. Decide what you need and practice packing. The money you save on gas and repair may allow you to prep in a better direction. |
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I've taken a crown vic police interceptor with posi through shit most 4x4 trucks wouldn't go through... If you'd have said a VW bug instead, I wouldn't have lifted an eyebrow. but then I realized that you're probably using a Vic in government police work, I guess. I've seen a diesel 4x4 with stock 235x16" street treads and posi slide all over a slick yard. I've seen a '97 Sonoma open diff work like a billy goat on the same street treads and not even tear up the grass. And I've seen a bug climb frontwards and backwards up things other cars can't. |
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I do think I begin to see the dichotomy with the term "off road", though. The reflexive answer I see is often, "gridlock = Baja runner. The actual case, though, is generally different. On the big roads, you're looking at medians and verges that are graded. If what you're talking about is leaving the pavement while the sheeple stare longingly at the distance and safety while they idle away their gasoline, just about anything that'll run down the road can handle 90% of the verges. Secondary roads with deep ditches are a problem, of course. But they're a problem with the average 4x4 as well. And, barring deep water, there are ways to handle those too. We were in a 4x4 truck one night when a couple of friends from school decided to try to pen us in with their two cars. We evaded but couldn't leave them until we got to the elementary school playground that had a set of low railroad tie steps that the cars could traverse down. No problem for the truck. Trouble averted. I don't expect troopers and citizens with 'Special Trooper" badges are going to look kindly on someone running down the median while traffic is backed up to the horizon. That's biker territory. |
| Per the OP's request, watch this video first and this is the second part. |
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I also don't buy the whole rock crawling, snorkel ready, hummer recovery system requirement either! With that said, I do much prefer a 4x4 as here in PA we do need to be concerned with snow and ice and with good tires plus tire chains I can be assured that I can still go when the weather is far less then ideal. A
Not sure about replacing the XL but a AWD Subaru or wagon of some sort would still be quite capable and could haul a good amount of gear. Just not something I would be comfortable with as we live too damed close to both major cities and a nuclear power plant so our bug out drill and plan is well established and it requires a big truck and trailer! |
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get an older subaru, i've got 2 a 00 and a 98 and 3 of my buddys have them, combined between all of us we've got over 800,000mi on them, one of mine has 160k and the other has 185k all with the original drivetrain, no rebuilts bla bla, both of mine run like a brand new car, get about 28-30mpg on the highway, and they're 4wd, i'll never buy anything but subaru, these are my 5th and 6th ones
ETA they can handle about 2 feet of water, a foot or so of snow, and mine both have skidplates on them, the 98 is a wagon, it can haul a ton of stuff, i fit a engine hoist in it once lol this past winter lol 
snow tires on these things kick ass |
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I'm a lurker . . . and my first post . . . it got a little long . . . summary in 1st paragraph
You don't need a BOV. You need a live in BOL with some self sufficiency (garden, water, full size vehicle, food preps, gennie) and a GHB with a GHC (get home car). Loading your preps and getting on the road takes too long if it is a real SHTF. Better to be already on the move home to the BOL away from the metro area before panic really sets in. If the event is bad enough (nuke, invasion, terror plot, New Madrid lets go) I have to leave home I'll be a statistic and I'm honestly OK with that since the chance is so slim. Anything short of TEOTWAWKI (which is nigh impossible to truly prep for) isn't a real SHTF since I won't be leaving home for any length of time. The other 999 scenarios I can choose to leave the immediate area or ride it out at the BOL for a power outage, weather, job layoff, wild fire, chemical spill, minor earthquake, etc. Either way the longest I'll be gone is a few days and then back home to the preps. SHTF is most likely going to be financial or weather, not EMP, nuke, or obamalacolypse. Keep your money in your pocket when you can by learning to be self sufficient. Buy a "gently used" vehicle not new and save that depreciation for parts and preps. Learn to do you own vehicle maintenance, brakes, oil, and the like. Luckily these days Google has all of this covered. Find a trust worthy mechanic (hard to do sometimes) for the bigger stuff and get to know him. Mine likes flashlights and Dt Mtn Dew which has benefited me with good used parts on a weekend so I could get to work on Mon. Buy a decent used vehicle, maintain it, prep it how you want it, and keep it for 10-15 yrs. This saves money over the long term and you'll REALLY KNOW your car after 5yrs or so. So far maintenance has been cheaper than a monthly payment for me. Since you've been driving that same car for so long when you need to react and do evasive maneuvers at 65mph on a rain slicked road you won't tag the median wall, just dart around it in a controlled slide :-) I think your current rig, the Jeep XJ is the best thing going. They're pretty capable, solid reliable engine and tranny. If yours has significant issues and you aren't completely burned out on Jeep maybe just a replacement and have some spare parts? The aftermarket support for the Cherokee is unbelievable. But with the miles you drive, fuel is a concern, but factor in the cost of a replacement vehicle and it will buy a lot more fuel. I had a '99 XJ and 3 MJs over the years and went to a VW TDI when we left the city and moved an hr out to the BOL. I now average 35,000 miles a year which sucks. You need to consider the most likely scenario for you. I've got a long commute which is 95% interstate and I'm either at work, at home, or driving between. I have a powerstroke F250 4x4 at home but it's not practical for a long commute. If the SHTF my goal is to get home (BOL) to the Fam, hopefully driving, but walk if I have too. It's just me in the car, so plenty of storage in the hatch with the back seats down. I keep a bag and some gear in the car. I also have preps stashed in a trunk in my office. If there's warning I'll load the car and get rolling ASAP and hopefully make it the majority of the way driving. If not it'll be tougher, but I'll live with just the gear in the car. If I ditch the car I'll be hurting and it might take me a week to get home, BUT I WILL MAKE IT HOME. I picked a '00 VW Golf TDI for my solution to get home, it's not ideal, but it's economical and it will last 10 yrs if I take care of it. If this makes sense for you, get a '00-03 Golf or Jetta Wagon with the TDI and 5spd nothing newer. $5K for a used TDI with 130K on it, and another $2K going through it fixing minor issues, lapsed maintenance, and a few goodies. It has a few performance options for more HP, but more importantly I put better brakes, shocks, and a skidplate on it. The next mod is 2" lift springs for a little more clearance and better tires. Even after that I should still see 40+mpg. It's not a 4x4, but it will jump a curb, median if it's not too wet, and the skidplate has been tested a few times already. Learn the capabilities of what you have (with permission construction sites are good for this as are empty parking lots in the rain) on a back road, hell get AAA if you don't have a buddy to pull you out of the ditch. Have paper maps with notes and practice by taking alternate routes. I've passed plenty of rolled SUVs after 6" of snow and I still made it home in a 2wd with good tires. - JP |
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I'm a lurker . . . and my first post . . . it got a little long . . . summary in 1st paragraph You don't need a BOV. You need a live in BOL with some self sufficiency (garden, water, full size vehicle, food preps, gennie) and a GHB with a GHC (get home car). Loading your preps and getting on the road takes too long if it is a real SHTF. Better to be already on the move home to the BOL away from the metro area before panic really sets in. If the event is bad enough (nuke, invasion, terror plot, New Madrid lets go) I have to leave home I'll be a statistic and I'm honestly OK with that since the chance is so slim. Anything short of TEOTWAWKI (which is nigh impossible to truly prep for) isn't a real SHTF since I won't be leaving home for any length of time. The other 999 scenarios I can choose to leave the immediate area or ride it out at the BOL for a power outage, weather, job layoff, wild fire, chemical spill, minor earthquake, etc. Either way the longest I'll be gone is a few days and then back home to the preps. - JP I dont agree with you on this part.. There are plenty of things that can force you out of your home.. Wildfire for example. if you are in a BOL it is going to be fairly secluded, a wildfire can be on your house in minutes, it is extremely difficult to control without lots of manpower and tools. When a fire takes control, chances are you are going to need to evacuate at some point. |
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JP_in_STL
How close are you to Yellowstone? Sure, if it ever went super volcano then we are all screwed but it could be a lesser erruption that lasted many years. I am sure there are other reasons and possibilities why you could have to bug out but having a plan is never a bad thing! |