Posted: 7/15/2010 5:18:55 PM EDT
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3 or 4 people...just the family. I've been thinkin' about it for while
and already have the digging equipment. I've just been putting it off. Call it a Storm shelter, bunker...or temporary safe room...but what are the options ? Cinder block, pre-poured concrete walls, or the truck hauled fiberglass ? Venting the thing concerns me.....nothing long term...3 or 4 days tops... Any available plans on the net ?? something simple........thanks |
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Quoted:
3 or 4 people...just the family. I've been thinkin' about it for while and already have the digging equipment. I've just been putting it off. Call it a Storm shelter, bunker...or temporary safe room...but what are the options ? Cinder block, pre-poured concrete walls, or the truck hauled fiberglass ? Venting the thing concerns me.....nothing long term...3 or 4 days tops... Any available plans on the net ?? something simple........thanks Lot's of info if you ask specific questions... One thing to consider, your being in TN, I'd be far more concerned with drainage than venting -which is an easy issue. |
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Im from TN too and always thought I would try this. Its cheep and it works. PSP PSP refers to a method of building developed by Mike Oehler, who wrote The Fifty Dollar and Up Underground House Book. Mike definitely has some ideas worth relating, although they won't appeal to everyone. He did indeed build a fifty dollar house that he is still living in, although I believe he has added on a few hundred dollar wing to it. Much of the savings that Mike has been able to attain is through a combination of using recycled materials, logs harvested from his own land, and a simple method of building underground. PSP stands for Post/Shoring/Polyethylene. The framework of the building is created with posts that are preserved in various ways and planted in the earth. These posts serve to support both the walls and the ceiling. The space between the posts is planked with used dimensional lumber, such as from wood pallets. This is what he calls the "shoring". Then the whole thing is wrapped in polyethylene plastic before it is backfilled with earth, making a truly underground home. Instead of conventional flooring, Mike advocates using the existing earth, finely raked and smoothed, and then carpeting thrown over it. To me the most impressive aspect of what Mike has to offer is in the design concepts for building underground. He has come up with a system for designing rooms that can provide daylight and proper drainage for a wide variety of arrangements. His thinking goes way beyond what most underground architects have accomplished. |
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I'm not sure about the log deal...although I will check out this guys work out.
I've got 5 or 6 thousand to invest. I'd actually like to connect it to the downstairs Basement someway. I've got some ideas. Just trying finalize some details And Drainage is a top priority BTW.........as well as venting.... |
| I would be leary of any contruction method other than concrete or steel container perhaps. Anything that is not sealed tight against possible water intrusion would also be susceptible to radon. I would be concerned that an earth-based dwelling could be more dangerous than being outside in the elements. If I were to build a bomb-shelter/saferoom/bunker/whatever, I would use reinforced concrete, and a lot of it. |
| You could always bury a culvert pipe. Utah Shelter Systems has a nice setup. |
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I don't get the bunker concept. I'm not worried about a nuke. If I'm forced into a bunker and a civilian, help probably ain't coming.
I see a bunker as an oven or a trap that I would never lead my family into. I believe 6k could be used much better elsewhere. Please share your considerations leading to the want of a bunker. Seriously, I'm not shittin' in your thread. |
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Quoted:
I don't get the bunker concept. I'm not worried about a nuke. If I'm forced into a bunker and a civilian, help probably ain't coming. I see a bunker as an oven or a trap that I would never lead my family into. I believe 6k could be used much better elsewhere. Please share your considerations leading to the want of a bunker. Seriously, I'm not shittin' in your thread. A bunker would not help much against a nuke unless you put in a massive filtration system. A lot really depends how close you are to the detonation and where you are in relation to the fall-out zone. However, I believe the OP is talking more about a storm shelter which is a good idea if you live in a tornado prone area. Being in Louisiana you have a bigger threat from hurricanes, but a storm shelter might not be a good solution due to the possibility of flooding. I live near San Antonio, so I face a threat from tornadoes spawned from a hurricane, more than the threat of the hurricane itself. I have thought about installing one of the pre-made fiberglass units and I am guilty of referring to it as a 'bunker', but I am not expecting to repel a nuke attack in it. |
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http://www.survivalring.org/FamilyShelterDesigns-1962.pdf
If you have minor skills and digging equipment I would suggest modifying the plan for the corregated pipeshelter to an 8" section of 72" concrete pipe. Use Steel plate on each end (don't forget a door) or you could use 2X4's turned on edge and laminated to produce the end pieces, as per the plan for the 2X10 A frame in the above pamphlet. |
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Quoted:
I don't get the bunker concept. I'm not worried about a nuke. If I'm forced into a bunker and a civilian, help probably ain't coming. I see a bunker as an oven or a trap that I would never lead my family into. I believe 6k could be used much better elsewhere. Please share your considerations leading to the want of a bunker. Seriously, I'm not shittin' in your thread. Hello HELO... Well, my take on it is that the 'bunker' really isn't for nuke survival but MZB survival.... Ok, ok, its a stretch but here goes.... They can't kill you and steal your stuff if they can't find you. I feel that if the 'bunker' were well placed with multiple exits properly concealed and you maintain proper OPSec. then you could ride out the major die off that will come in the first few months of a major crisis (pandemic, EMP, etc..) where there will be scavengers trying to take what they can. If you are alone or in small numbers it will be really hard (impossible) to maintain a security force sufficient to ensure you and yours survive if you are just in a stick built house and you are surrounded by needy people or MZB types.... My ultimate 'won the lottery' type 'bunker' is just a couple 10' culverts stocked and positioned near my home, connected to the basement or under the garage slab. It is accessed through a WELL concealed secure door, with multiple (also well concealed) emergency exits. It has a water source (well or spring) and power supply. Ideally the water source is also the power supply, use spring water flow to turn micro hydro as it fills the cistern. HEY, it's my lottery money, I'll make it work... 
WDS |
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There is more legend and BS stories floating around the Internet on this topic than any other. I've helped design "one or two" of these structures and it ain't rocket science.
Two feet of concrete or 3 feet of earth will protect you from the radiation even if you are in the edge of the fireball. A foot of concrete plus 24" of water from a kids wading pool will do the same for much less cost and give you a reserve of non-potable water as well, water that could be filtered and drank. A simple bathroom vent type exhaust fan will provide plenty of ventilation if it's set up properly, and a simple pleated paper furnace filter is more than adequate for air filtration. I have seen these structures built as a concrete topped basement for a porch, dug into a hillside and used as a root cellar, under basement floors, under slab on grade floors, etc. Think of it as a basement with a concrete ceiling. The work that I am familiar with used concrete block filled with mortar for the walls and reinforced concrete for the top. Ventilation was a filter box with a bath vent fan in it, discharging thru a 4" PVC pipe into the shelter at the lowest level. Air was exhausted thru another 4" pipe in the ceiling at the opposite corner. Needless to say, any power/water/ventilation conduits and ducting need to be in place prior to pouring the top and/or sides. If you use a 1 hour fire door and close the vents, in theory you could burn the house down on top of it if you could get fresh air into it. It would get VERY warm in there ubt it technically would be survivable. I wouldn't want to try it, but there it is. This is doable for $5k to $10k, depending on size and whether or not you are capable of doing some of it yourself. Ops |
| I, too, am concerned about leading my family into a hole with only one exit. However, either underground dome or corrugated pipe with multiple hidden exits and ventilation ducts seems ideal. The weakness of the idea seems to be the ventilation. Anyone could simply block these off or smoke you out fairly quickly if they can find them. If the ventilation is poorly designed, they could also just flood you. An 'observation' deck with muzzle sized ports might be helpful... |
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Quoted:
I don't get the bunker concept. I'm not worried about a nuke. If I'm forced into a bunker and a civilian, help probably ain't coming. I see a bunker as an oven or a trap that I would never lead my family into. I believe 6k could be used much better elsewhere. Please share your considerations leading to the want of a bunker. Seriously, I'm not shittin' in your thread. Maybe I would store food in there...or a stash of ammo and weapons.... Maybe someone's trying to break in while my wife is here and I'm not home.... Maybe an F4 tornado is heading our way.... If a nuke hits near ...say 30 40 miles away.....and we're all home...maybe we could survive a few days while the radiation falls...it won't be fun by any stretch if that happens and...I pretty much have everything else...I may be able to build it for 2 grand.... the bunker will have TWO exits....does that explain it ?? |
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Simply having storage space underground lets your stored stuff live a long life and if done properly a house fire would not destroy what was in the underground room or rooms. I would probably put a lot of work into the vents and what not just so I could get fresh air in even if the main house had an issue. Part of this is simply because I don't want it sucking in smoke if the house burns down. House fires are a common problem so I figure it is something to consider. To some extent I would dig down and see what you run into. I am in east tn and rock is easy to hit around here but if it is shale you can dig into it if you wish to do so, makes for some astounding footers. Drainage would be another huge concern of mine. |
| Block wall is terrible only due to the backbreaking labor involved. If your doing it yourself make your own forms and call a concrete truck to pour. If your paying someone else to build it do whatever is cheaper. When I build my next house (need to pay off more on my current one) I will be looking into having a full basement for the house and a concealed "bunker"/cold store room that would be accessible from the basement (via concealed door) and would be under the patio. Venting would be my problem because I want it concealed and away from the house. My idea would be some sort of setup concealed by a flower box, patio bench, or something that looks like it belongs. |
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You have several options but the ingenuity of how to hide it will be up to you.
Check the Military manuals Survivability and Field Fortifications both can be found on the Internet for free or you could find them in the download section of www.survivaistboards.com. While you are there check any threads on bunkers, fallout shelters and root cellars. Be sure to check out MountianmanMike. He has a good thread on what he built. Also check www.ssrsi.org Scour the Internet for free plans of fallout shelters from the old "FEMA" and other sources. This will give you a clue about what you may want to build. There is no reason for a fallout shelter/command bunker cannot have more than one entrance the only limits are in the human mind. I have a basic plan for mine but but at this point I am short on money, so its kinda on the back burner. Isn't that the way of all things. If I can find some of the sources I used I'll send'em your way. |
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Quoted: Im from TN too and always thought I would try this. Its cheep and it works. PSP PSP refers to a method of building developed by Mike Oehler, who wrote The Fifty Dollar and Up Underground House Book. Mike definitely has some ideas worth relating, although they won't appeal to everyone. He did indeed build a fifty dollar house that he is still living in, although I believe he has added on a few hundred dollar wing to it. Much of the savings that Mike has been able to attain is through a combination of using recycled materials, logs harvested from his own land, and a simple method of building underground. PSP stands for Post/Shoring/Polyethylene. The framework of the building is created with posts that are preserved in various ways and planted in the earth. These posts serve to support both the walls and the ceiling. The space between the posts is planked with used dimensional lumber, such as from wood pallets. This is what he calls the "shoring". Then the whole thing is wrapped in polyethylene plastic before it is backfilled with earth, making a truly underground home. Instead of conventional flooring, Mike advocates using the existing earth, finely raked and smoothed, and then carpeting thrown over it. To me the most impressive aspect of what Mike has to offer is in the design concepts for building underground. He has come up with a system for designing rooms that can provide daylight and proper drainage for a wide variety of arrangements. His thinking goes way beyond what most underground architects have accomplished. This book has been in my library for 2 years. And I have only skimmed through it.  |
| im planning to build one myself. we have a backhoe, and relatives who know how to work concrete. im planning to build a concrete 15x15 concrete shelter. its going to be dug approx 50% underground, and then we will cover the rest with a few feet of dirt, id love to have it completly buried, but its not as practical, and much more work. i mainly want it for prep storage, food/ammo/guns, and a tornado shelter, with a side use as a fallout shelter. i was planning to make the walls at least 10" thick...... im afraid thats as thick as i can afford to make it. it will have camping equipment, wall mounted bunks for the family, power and phone line, with a small attached shelter/room for a small generator, and propane tank for electricity, and food cooking, plus plenty of air circulation of course.....ill plan it as i build the forms...... it will take me a couple years to afford all of it, hole and floor 1st year, walls second year, and hopefully the roof later that same year. ill weld up steel door frames and doors myself. |
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Quoted:
im planning to build one myself. we have a backhoe, and relatives who know how to work concrete. im planning to build a concrete 15x15 concrete shelter. its going to be dug approx 50% underground, and then we will cover the rest with a few feet of dirt, id love to have it completly buried, but its not as practical, and much more work. i mainly want it for prep storage, food/ammo/guns, and a tornado shelter, with a side use as a fallout shelter. i was planning to make the walls at least 10" thick...... im afraid thats as thick as i can afford to make it. it will have camping equipment, wall mounted bunks for the family, power and phone line, with a small attached shelter/room for a small generator, and propane tank for electricity, and food cooking, plus plenty of air circulation of course.....ill plan it as i build the forms...... it will take me a couple years to afford all of it, hole and floor 1st year, walls second year, and hopefully the roof later that same year. ill weld up steel door frames and doors myself. The 10" walls won't matter below ground level. You'll be covered for fallout by the soil packed around the walls. Above ground level you can build them up too. ETA: I'd love to have shelter built, but I have neighbors that would be right up my anus with codes complaints, phone call complaints, ridicule, possible vandalism from one of their sons. |
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I look at under ground bunkers through the eyes of the Viet Minh/VC
They can't kill you if they can't find you.......and they can't take your food/guns/ammo if they can't find it. Never have only one entrance........... they dug entire tunnel systems with only basic handtools..........think about it........ VC tunnel complexes http://www.eleven-bravo.co.uk/the-war/tactics/nva-tunnels.php 
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A bunker would not help much against a nuke unless you put in a massive filtration system. A lot really depends how close you are to the detonation and where you are in relation to the fall-out zone asked and answered: today's hypothetical scenario: tac nuke goes off 25 miles away. your next 10 moves? REVISITED –– WITH HOW-TO! (February 1, 2009 - 82 replies) http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=618130 today's hypothetical scenario: tac nuke goes off 25 miles away. your next 10 moves? (January 12, 2008 - 159 replies) http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=607398 ar-jedi |
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Quoted: I have had the book for a couple of years and have read it cover to cover a few times.Quoted: Im from TN too and always thought I would try this. Its cheep and it works. PSP PSP refers to a method of building developed by Mike Oehler, who wrote The Fifty Dollar and Up Underground House Book. Mike definitely has some ideas worth relating, although they won't appeal to everyone. He did indeed build a fifty dollar house that he is still living in, although I believe he has added on a few hundred dollar wing to it. Much of the savings that Mike has been able to attain is through a combination of using recycled materials, logs harvested from his own land, and a simple method of building underground. PSP stands for Post/Shoring/Polyethylene. The framework of the building is created with posts that are preserved in various ways and planted in the earth. These posts serve to support both the walls and the ceiling. The space between the posts is planked with used dimensional lumber, such as from wood pallets. This is what he calls the "shoring". Then the whole thing is wrapped in polyethylene plastic before it is backfilled with earth, making a truly underground home. Instead of conventional flooring, Mike advocates using the existing earth, finely raked and smoothed, and then carpeting thrown over it. To me the most impressive aspect of what Mike has to offer is in the design concepts for building underground. He has come up with a system for designing rooms that can provide daylight and proper drainage for a wide variety of arrangements. His thinking goes way beyond what most underground architects have accomplished. This book has been in my library for 2 years. And I have only skimmed through it. Some on this thread have dismissed this option out of hand without really knowing what they are talking about. The OP is on a budget. This is a proven way to build an underground dwelling, shelter, bunker, root celler what have you. Concrete and steel are expensive and probably will require outside help. Wood and plastic can be done by yourself or with a trusted helper. To the OP. check this option out. Save your money for other things. |
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here is something similar to a PSP shelter. http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=25078 |