Posted: 3/27/2010 10:47:03 PM EDT
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I recently bought a Titan 5500 watt diesel generator off craigslist for $200 bux. It turned over, and felt like it had good compression, so I took a chance on it. The seller said they used it after katrina(common around here) and would not crank up when they tried to use it a few weeks ago.... Their son broke the pull rope.
SO. I crack the injector pump line open, and get no fuel coming out... Take the Injector pump off, and eventually figure out that the piston is stuck in the compressed position. I had to take a punch and hammer to drive it back down, and pull the spring off, and disassemble it... Soaked it all in lacquer thinner, worked it back and forth, and reassembled it. Felt good, moved nice and free. I Put it back on, hit the decompression lever, and fired it over, and it spits fuel out of the high pressure side. I THOUGHT I had it licked!!! bled it up to the injector, and then closed that line back off, and tried to crank it to no avail. I took the injector out, and soaked it in the lacquer thinner overnight thinking it might be clogged as well. SO I hooked it back up to the high pressure line tonight but not installed in the motor, and got no spray coming out of it. Pulled it back off, and held my finger over the line while cranking it, and I can hold the pressure back with my finger. Feels like about 30 PSI. Did I not bleed the IP well enough? is the IP dead? How should I proceed in troubleshooting this dude? |
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Went back out, and tried to goof with it again. I made sure the fuel going to the injector pump was bled of air, and pulled the injector back off. I cranked it for about 3 minutes to try and get a stronger pulse out of the injector line, and it started to shoot a little further, but my jump box started to die. I put the injector back on to see if it was enough to pop it, but it was not. The jump box went dead..... The battery in it now is dead dead. SO the jump box is charging, and hopefully tomorrow morning I can get going on it again. Any advice is needed.
This is going at my cabin / BOL for emergency power. |
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As you can see from my post count I'm a lurker,but for safety sake I had to reply, Do not check the pressure with your finger,you could lose your finger or worse your arm. google high pressure fuel line injury or fuel injector injury. saw pictures of it when i was a diesel mechanic,It's not pretty.
as far as the problem, check the fuel pump piston bore for scoring or piting. also disassemble the Injector and inspect for damage. you can make a nice injector tester out of a hydraulic bottle jack and a fuel pressure gauge. good luck. Edited to add- fill a jar with fuel, insert fuel return line, crank engine and look for air bubbles. |
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Quoted:
I recently bought a Titan 5500 watt diesel generator off craigslist for $200 bux. It turned over, and felt like it had good compression, so I took a chance on it. The seller said they used it after katrina(common around here) and would not crank up when they tried to use it a few weeks ago.... Their son broke the pull rope. SO. I crack the injector pump line open, and get no fuel coming out... Take the Injector pump off, and eventually figure out that the piston is stuck in the compressed position. I had to take a punch and hammer to drive it back down, and pull the spring off, and disassemble it... Soaked it all in lacquer thinner, worked it back and forth, and reassembled it. Felt good, moved nice and free. I Put it back on, hit the decompression lever, and fired it over, and it spits fuel out of the high pressure side. I THOUGHT I had it licked!!! bled it up to the injector, and then closed that line back off, and tried to crank it to no avail. I took the injector out, and soaked it in the lacquer thinner overnight thinking it might be clogged as well. SO I hooked it back up to the high pressure line tonight but not installed in the motor, and got no spray coming out of it. Pulled it back off, and held my finger over the line while cranking it, and I can hold the pressure back with my finger. Feels like about 30 PSI. Did I not bleed the IP well enough? is the IP dead? How should I proceed in troubleshooting this dude? NEVER NEVER NEVER hold finger or any other body part over an injector or any other fuel system component on the High Pressure side of a diesel as they when working can depending on the engine produce upwards of 10000 psi and it can and will force the fuel into your skin and very bad thing will happen. I have seen a few people injured this way. YMMV ETA I seen another user beat me to it on the warning.... |
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Shit I did not realize there was such a danger. I figured the pressure would just push my finger off the line.
I won't do that anymore. There was no scoring inside the injector pump. It was all very nice after I freed it up. The jump box is plenty powerful enough to spin it over. It's a very small engine(has a riding mower battery) but i'll put on a car battery to see if that helps. |
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OK guys. I think I got it. Took the injector pump apart again, and realized that I put a copper washer in the wrong spot in the stack. It was supposed to go between the piston stop face, and the bottom of the poppet valve, BUT I put it on top of the poppet valve instead. It bent 1 side of it up pretty good, so I pulled it out, hammered it flat which of course made it egg shaped. Put it on a steel mandrel, and tapped it back into a round shape.... Hit the burrs off with some sandpaper, and put it all back together.
I got GOOD flow out of the injector pump, and when I hooked the injector up (not installed in the head) it sprayed a NICE cone pattern out of the tip. I pulled it off, reinstalled it in the head, and when I was bleeding it up to the injector, the jump box went dead.  SO... Ohh well.. got that on charge again, and now I have to go to work.
SO I'll fire it off when I get home tonight, and if everything is right, I will go buy a battery, and do a deep cleaning / PM on this thing. Thanks for the help, and warnings guys. I'm an old hand at gas motors, but new to the diesel game. I just bought a primary DD / BOV that has a 4 cylinder diesel in it, so it is GREAT to get some experience. |
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#1 buy a decent battery charger!!!! a jump box is bairly good enough to get you out of a jam. Some of them arent even good enough for that brand new. There is no excuse not to have one.
ur lucky you didnt shoot your hand full of diesel with the injector like an epi pen. Im glad you got it sorted out. Add some Lucas diesel treatment to that fuel and save yourself alot of head ache |
| One other danger is if the injector is remved from the cylinder and the fuel is allowed to drip into the cylinder, it will cause hydraulic lockup if the injector is replaced, of if the engine is started without the injector, the fluid will be expelled with great force. We had a fatal accident near here with a mechanic asked for a D11 engine to be bumped while he stood over the missing ejector. The force was so great that he was killed instantally from massive blunt force trauma. |
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I recently bought a Titan 5500 watt diesel generator off craigslist for $200 bux. It turned over, and felt like it had good compression, so I took a chance on it. The seller said they used it after katrina(common around here) and would not crank up when they tried to use it a few weeks ago.... Their son broke the pull rope. SO. I crack the injector pump line open, and get no fuel coming out... Take the Injector pump off, and eventually figure out that the piston is stuck in the compressed position. I had to take a punch and hammer to drive it back down, and pull the spring off, and disassemble it... Soaked it all in lacquer thinner, worked it back and forth, and reassembled it. Felt good, moved nice and free. I Put it back on, hit the decompression lever, and fired it over, and it spits fuel out of the high pressure side. I THOUGHT I had it licked!!! bled it up to the injector, and then closed that line back off, and tried to crank it to no avail. I took the injector out, and soaked it in the lacquer thinner overnight thinking it might be clogged as well. SO I hooked it back up to the high pressure line tonight but not installed in the motor, and got no spray coming out of it. Pulled it back off, and held my finger over the line while cranking it, and I can hold the pressure back with my finger. Feels like about 30 PSI. Did I not bleed the IP well enough? is the IP dead? How should I proceed in troubleshooting this dude? NEVER NEVER NEVER hold finger or any other body part over an injector or any other fuel system component on the High Pressure side of a diesel as they when working can depending on the engine produce upwards of 10000 psi and it can and will force the fuel into your skin and very bad thing will happen. I have seen a few people injured this way. YMMV ETA I seen another user beat me to it on the warning.... side note....... a friend nearly lost his hand when a pneumatic grease gun filled it up with grease.He was trying to get the gun on a zerk when he accidently triggered the gun.That was a nasty wound... |
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I would do a bit of reading and asking lot of questions before messing with injection systems. You are VERY lucky. A little research into the details may save you a bunch of time and wasted money.The life you save may be your own!
Have you checked the fuel filter? Surely get a real Battery. Diesel engine starters draw more than gas engines. Be very careful and keep everything very clean when working with fuel systems. A tiny piece of dirt will ruin things & cost big bucks. Have you turned it over and made sure the intake or exhaust valves are operating and not stuck? Check this. Look online for a service manual on your machine. Go to one of the mechanic/engine or generator forums and ask lots of questions. Have you drained the oil & replaced it? Many engines stored poorly for long periods will have water in the oil. Does your engine use a glow plug? Good luck! Red |
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SO I hooked it back up to the high pressure line tonight but not installed in the motor, and got no spray coming out of it. Pulled it back off, and held my finger over the line while cranking it, and I can hold the pressure back with my finger. Feels like about 30 PSI. just in case anyone missed it: NEVER, EVER use your body parts in an attempt to find hydraulic system or diesel injector leaks hydraulic or diesel oil, under high pressure, can sever fingers and/or inject right through your dermis layer –– the result of which is basically an oil tattoo –– which won't last for long because the surrounding skin will die from gangrene and you'll have a big problem. ar-jedi |
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To reinforce what everyone else said.
1) Change oil and filter. Be sure to use diesel rated oil. Rotella is easy to find.Walmart/Sams has it. 2) Change fuel filter. If it doesn't have one put one on. Least a cheap inline filter. Cheap insurance. 3) Use a real battery. Diesels take alot more umph to get movin'. 4)Drain fuel tank and clean. Prev. ownwer sounds like he knew nothing about diesels and probably less about diesel maintenance. 5)Use a good injector cleaner. All the above can go a long way and needs done anyway especially if it's been sitting awhile. That's a great find and hope you get it going. JEFF |
| Its a perfect time to have a visit fromthe Ether Bunny. Give it a little squirt of ether while its cranking. If it starts and runs, its fuel related. Rotory pumps are very hard to prime if you break the seals. Get a real battery, put the fuel line in a bucket of fuel, break the injector lines at the pump.crank crank crank. Once you get fuel at each line tighten them individually. Then break at the injector. crank crank crank. once there is fuel tighten each line. It should fire. If you get fuel at all of those points and it still dosent start, give it another sniff of ether. Sometimes that little extra is all it needs. |
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Its a perfect time to have a visit from the Ether Bunny. i'm not a big fan of using ether to start a diesel. life or death situation, yes. starting a diesel engine on a warm spring day to get an old generator going, no. if a diesel does not start, spraying ether is simply a temporary fix and there are inherent risks to the pistons/rods. compression, injector pump, fuel lines, injectors, etc will not be fixed by ether. if you can't fix it, find a not-too-busy truck or marine mechanic and buy him some donuts. ar-jedi |
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Its a perfect time to have a visit from the Ether Bunny. i'm not a big fan of using ether to start a diesel. life or death situation, yes. starting a diesel engine on a warm spring day to get an old generator going, no. if a diesel does not start, spraying ether is simply a temporary fix and there are inherent risks to the pistons/rods. compression, injector pump, fuel lines, injectors, etc will not be fixed by ether. if you can't fix it, find a not-too-busy truck or marine mechanic and buy him some donuts. ar-jedi There is nothing wrong with ether If is so bad then why do the top diesel engine manufactures like Cat and John Deere put factory installed ether kits in there equipment? One push of a button inside the cab for a shot of either on a cold morning. You’re correct that if there is a fuel/compression issue the ether will not fix it but many time when a diesel just won’t crank over fast enough because of a weak battery ether is just the ticket to get thing moving. |
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Its a perfect time to have a visit from the Ether Bunny. i'm not a big fan of using ether to start a diesel. life or death situation, yes. starting a diesel engine on a warm spring day to get an old generator going, no. if a diesel does not start, spraying ether is simply a temporary fix and there are inherent risks to the pistons/rods. compression, injector pump, fuel lines, injectors, etc will not be fixed by ether. if you can't fix it, find a not-too-busy truck or marine mechanic and buy him some donuts. ar-jedi I tend to agree with you, BUT, j John Deere put either injectors at the factory on some medium sized straight tractors (85-150 hp). I want to say I've seen one on a 2955. ANyway, obviously JD isn't scared of either on at least one series of engines. I don't use the stuff on, and have never needed it on my diesels. I only use it for it's intended purpose- seating beads on tires  .
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| Maybe it’s just a cold climate thing but almost ever piece of John Deere equipment I have has either an ether button or some of the older ones have a place right blow the steering column for spraying the ether in direct from the can. I know my JD7820, JD7810, JD8110, JD4450 and JD 4430 all have the electronic ether button in the cab our JD 4020 and JD 4230 have the nipple under the column for spraying it direct even our JD410E back hoe and JD 160clc Excavator have the either button the only tractor I have that does not have either is the JD7230 which has grid heater and that was a factory upgrade from the ether button that was ordered with the tractor. |
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folks –– factory ether injection compared to using a can of ether are two completely different things. factory ether injection systems carefully control how much ether can be introduced to the engine, depending on cranking time. per mil-spec MIL-DTL-52649C, that limit is .25cc ether per 100 inches displacement per 1 second. this is a safe working limit for ether, and when used IN CONJUNCTION WITH A WORKING DIESEL INJECTION SYSTEM prevents detonation from slapping the piston and potentially causing damage to the piston and rod. basically the factory system is "cutting" the atomized diesel with a bit of a more volatile fuel. in contrast, using a can of ether with a NON-WORKING DIESEL INJECTION SYSTEM can have dramatically different results –– especially when no diesel fuel is actually being introduced into the combustion chamber and there is an over-abundance of ether present. ar-jedi ETA ref: http://www.dscc.dla.mil/Downloads/MilSpec/Docs/MIL-DTL-52649/dtl52649.pdf section 3.5.7(h). |
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To reinforce what everyone else said. 1) Change oil and filter. Be sure to use diesel rated oil. Rotella is easy to find.Walmart/Sams has it. 2) Change fuel filter. If it doesn't have one put one on. Least a cheap inline filter. Cheap insurance. 3) Use a real battery. Diesels take alot more umph to get movin'. 4)Drain fuel tank and clean. Prev. ownwer sounds like he knew nothing about diesels and probably less about diesel maintenance. 5)Use a good injector cleaner. All the above can go a long way and needs done anyway especially if it's been sitting awhile. That's a great find and hope you get it going. JEFF 6) Make a point of routinely using PRI-D and PRI-Cide to keep the deisel fresh and fungus-free. |
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I assume by "trouble shooting the generator" that you are not getting power? Time to flash the field. ( out of 10 times that will do it. There is a fairly recent thread on how to do it on here. I hope field flashing works for the OP because I just bought a generator thinking that was the problem. I was wrong so hopefully I have increased the odds for you. Grove ETA just got my membership and page 2 |