Posted: 1/9/2010 10:19:24 PM EDT
| Just saw it on history channel. 25 years after would it be Mad Max or would man take on a simpler, less petty "native American" lifestyle? More like a noble savage? |
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Just saw it on history channel. 25 years after would it be Mad Max or would man take on a simpler, less petty "native American" lifestyle? More like a noble savage? I'm sorry, but exactly what IDIOT TEACHER told you AmerIndians were not petty, tribal, and pretty much killing and eating each other for a few 1000 years prior to the Evil White European showed up. I get so sick of this BULLSHIT coming up every few years from some pinhead Liberal lie spouting group hugging wanna be KING of the Hug a tree let''s eat a hunter misanthrope's. 
if the world doesn't rebuild quickly after a major event, 20% of the remaining population will try to steal your children, rape your women, take every thing you have, set your body on fire and come back in 3 hours for snack time after gang raping your 5 yr old. a minimum of 1% of the population at any time consists of people that would just as soon rape your ass then eat your heart for supper and feel NO REMORSE in any shape or form.. another 5% will think twice about it, then do the same damn thing anyways. Utter Pollyanna anyone who believes other wise. 
THAT SAID.. I recorded it and haven't watched it as yet, but only a liberal loon will try to get from point A to point B unarmed in a true SHTF situation. THINK SUPER DOME on day 3 if you are anywhere near a major city. CHEF |
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Just saw it on history channel. 25 years after would it be Mad Max or would man take on a simpler, less petty "native American" lifestyle? More like a noble savage? How old are you kid? I would really like to know since your thought process indicates that you 1.) believe the Native American lifestyle was somehow not bloody and brutal, and 2.) that those of us with the least bit of intelligence would just forget everything we know and just sit around on our asses being victims of our circumstances. The third option is that power would be up in communities all around the Nation (or as a whole) as people with intelligence would build their own power stations and have pretty much a normal life. There will be businesses, manufacturing, banks, and people wishing they were out of debt, just like now. Why would we live like savages? I have a machine shop, supplies for it, and the intelligence to invent, create, and repair technology. Am I going to turn stupid because something bad happened. You need to rethink your entire view of the American people. Sure half of them are idiots. The other half is the half that makes things happen and makes the country work. That half will survive at much higher rates than the other half. |
| Time out. Notice "native American is in quotes. I'm not saying native Americans weren't brutal look at the commanche/apache people. I guess people what I was trying to convey is that I think man would end up in small nomadic tribes. After 25 years I don't think we would have anything near a modern society. |
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Time out. Notice "native American is in quotes. I'm not saying native Americans weren't brutal look at the commanche/apache people. I guess people what I was trying to convey is that I think man would end up in small nomadic tribes. After 25 years I don't think we would have anything near a modern society. I disagree. It is human nature to band together in tough times. the thugs will indeed prevail on a limited basis, but only for a while. Somebody somewhere will have a welder and a machine shop. With those, I can build a crude but workable steam engine. With that steam engine, I can power a mill, a machine shop, a sawmill, a village.... If I have power, folks will trade me stuff for it. We now have an economy.. 99% of any engineering task is knowing that it can be done. We went from the Industrial Revolution to walking on the Moon in two centuries. Ops |
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Time out. Notice "native American is in quotes. I'm not saying native Americans weren't brutal look at the commanche/apache people. I guess people what I was trying to convey is that I think man would end up in small nomadic tribes. After 25 years I don't think we would have anything near a modern society. As long as me and my family is alive we will have a relatively modern society. If you plan on living without electricity, you will fit right in with the hard core Amish, but even most of the Amish will have running electricity in their shops. You do not seem to understand how knowledge works. I do not know now, how to build a generator, but I can reverse engineer one and reproduce it. I can re design it to make it more suited to my situation. Many, many people can do this even better than I can. There are dozens of mechanics in the area we can work with to get generators to run on the plentiful natural gas wells in the area. We will have everything but cable TV or satellite TV in a matter of months. Multiply that by thousands. Please define modern society? Just because you have to grow a lot of your own food and can't go to walmart does not make your society un-modern. We will have indoor plumbing and water and all the other conveniences of modern life. That may not apply to the cities, but it doesn't meant that islands of civilization would ever disappear. |
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Time out. Notice "native American is in quotes. I'm not saying native Americans weren't brutal look at the commanche/apache people. I guess people what I was trying to convey is that I think man would end up in small nomadic tribes. After 25 years I don't think we would have anything near a modern society. I disagree. It is human nature to band together in tough times. the thugs will indeed prevail on a limited basis, but only for a while. Somebody somewhere will have a welder and a machine shop. With those, I can build a crude but workable steam engine. With that steam engine, I can power a mill, a machine shop, a sawmill, a village.... If I have power, folks will trade me stuff for it. We now have an economy.. 99% of any engineering task is knowing that it can be done. We went from the Industrial Revolution to walking on the Moon in two centuries. Ops We have the huge advantage of already having very advanced computers. My nephew is going to school for computer and electronic technology. While the OP is crapping in a hole in the back yard we will be using computer controllers to make machines to do complicated tasks and building computers from available parts. My CNC machine will run just fine off a generator powered by steam or natural gas as long as I use a battery bank and transformer to smooth the power supply. How do I forget how to do this? |
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Just saw it on history channel. 25 years after would it be Mad Max or would man take on a simpler, less petty "native American" lifestyle? More like a noble savage? jman9599, Don't take the comments to hard, keep asking these types of questions and accept the feedback for what it is... There's a lot of old hands (with a lot of knowledge) here and they have already thought through this stulff years ago. I agree with the replys they made but it takes a long time to fully develope a strong opinion of what your, mine or our future will most probably look like... If we all had the end game figured out it would make deciding what to do next a lot easier! Prepper |
| rgr Preppernation. I just don't see how society would return to its normal state after 25 years. Part of what has made the western society so advanced was our access to cheap energy. I know that a large part of the people here are great at providing power for a home or even a small community. 25 years after TEOTWAWKI when fuel is gone for torches and machines. When nuclear engineers and others are killed off, when the large industrial base is gone, I think it would be hard to restart even with knowledge. |
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Batmanacw thanks for attacking me on my shortcomings about how knowledge works. It is a fact that some knowledge was lost when the barbarians sacked Rome and burnt her libraries. This is not an attack. My comments are intended to bring you up to speed quickly without flower speeches on living mad max style or in huts. Knowledge will be lost. I don't know how to launch a satellite. I don't know how to design and build a computer chip. Hopefully that knowledge will be retained, but the knowledge of advanced machinery and power generation will not be lost. The combustion engine will survive as will other means of energy transformation. Stop thinking in terms of movies and think in terms of general knowledge and technology. I apologize if you are offended by my pointed nature. I will do not for a second intend to live like a savage and there is almost no possibility it will be necessary. |
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Batmanacw thanks for attacking me on my shortcomings about how knowledge works. It is a fact that some knowledge was lost when the barbarians sacked Rome and burnt her libraries. This is not an attack. My comments are intended to bring you up to speed quickly without flower speeches on living mad max style or in huts. Knowledge will be lost. I don't know how to launch a satellite. I don't know how to design and build a computer chip. Hopefully that knowledge will be retained, but the knowledge of advanced machinery and power generation will not be lost. The combustion engine will survive as will other means of energy transformation. Stop thinking in terms of movies and think in terms of general knowledge and technology. I apologize if you are offended by my pointed nature. I will do not for a second intend to live like a savage and there is almost no possibility it will be necessary. Agree. Take the internal combustion engine for example. Knowledge is there to build it, but would the ability be there to make new ones, such as casting the block and such. I guess it would be but the ICE would be a rare commodity limited to a few locals. Gentleman thanks for the discussion. I guess I like to think post apocalypse and the world as I have family members who say they would rather just die than live after TEOTWAWKI. |
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Batmanacw thanks for attacking me on my shortcomings about how knowledge works. It is a fact that some knowledge was lost when the barbarians sacked Rome and burnt her libraries. This is not an attack. My comments are intended to bring you up to speed quickly without flower speeches on living mad max style or in huts. Knowledge will be lost. I don't know how to launch a satellite. I don't know how to design and build a computer chip. Hopefully that knowledge will be retained, but the knowledge of advanced machinery and power generation will not be lost. The combustion engine will survive as will other means of energy transformation. Stop thinking in terms of movies and think in terms of general knowledge and technology. I apologize if you are offended by my pointed nature. I will do not for a second intend to live like a savage and there is almost no possibility it will be necessary. Agree. Take the internal combustion engine for example. Knowledge is there to build it, but would the ability be there to make new ones, such as casting the block and such. I guess it would be but the ICE would be a rare commodity limited to a few locals. Gentleman thanks for the discussion. I guess I like to think post apocalypse and the world as I have family members who say they would rather just die than live after TEOTWAWKI. Talk to them. TEOTWAWKI is at most a new beginning, not an end. Engine sized castings are not that difficult. Take every opportunity to learn because they more you know the less you worry. |
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rgr Preppernation. I just don't see how society would return to its normal state after 25 years. Part of what has made the western society so advanced was our access to cheap energy. I know that a large part of the people here are great at providing power for a home or even a small community. 25 years after TEOTWAWKI when fuel is gone for torches and machines. When nuclear engineers and others are killed off, when the large industrial base is gone, I think it would be hard to restart even with knowledge. Coal. West Virginia will become the new capital city and cultural "Mecca". |
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Time out. Notice "native American is in quotes. I'm not saying native Americans weren't brutal look at the commanche/apache people. I guess people what I was trying to convey is that I think man would end up in small nomadic tribes. After 25 years I don't think we would have anything near a modern society. I'd think it'd be highly likely people would try to rebuild what they had before, or as close as they could get to it. |
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there was a lot of "what not to do" that I saw in this episode.
My g/f didnt watch the last bit ot it. b/c it "scared" her....she may not activly prep, but she complains less when I spend my money for preps. so even if there is bad info, it might at least get some people to thinking about prepping, and when they start, they will "hopefully" learn better info. just my two cents. |
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The commentators did a fairly good job but it didn't match the constant bad decision making process that was shown on screen.
It was completely laughable how the guys in the van were able to get into the town to rob the food stores or the cars still burning after 16 weeks or the farm where the kids were surviving on their own (children of the corn?) or how he constantly leaves firearms behind or how that couple boxes of food kept them going for 16 weeks, or how he, or...............bottom line is good points were made, they just didn't act out much that would help keep you alive. |
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Did anyone notice the part about getting water from the radiator and filtering it through a shirt and then boil it to kill the germs...They did not metion anything about the possibility of having antifreeze in it.. He did the dip your finger and taste it for Antifreeze test. It was straight water. Back to the OP: Societies will reform. The guy that makes electricity first and can sell it will be rich. The show was based on the premise that 20% of the people survived or so. There are a LOT of solar panels out there. Get these off all the sign boards and roadside flashing lights and in a week you would be the utility company. If you could make the dairy farmers refrigeration run you would eat well. He would also get valuable goods in trade for his milk and cheeses. These places with refrigeration and food would prosper in a rebuilding stage. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Who run Minneapolis town?? mcnielsen runs Minneapolis town. Two men enter, One man leaves! Prepper Bwa ha ha ha ha ha!!!! I laughed out loud, I thought you were from CA, Prepper and it said... Two men enter, one couple leaves!! Sorry, I'm still scratching my head over that CA bashing thread. Mad Max Rules!!! |
Don't sweat it, getting singed in a lite flaming on these pages is good for the thought processes. I'm new to posting after a year or so of skulking, and have been flamed a couple of times. Makes you think, and perhaps be more precise in expressing your ideas in your posts.
The other up side to being flamed in these pages is that it is rarely just a bunch of know it all's calling you names. There is usually a lot of good information fueling those flaming comments. Some of the responses to your post has me thinking even more about picking up more skills, or at least sharpening the skills I have from handyman level to really knowing the "nuts and bolts' aspects of these skills. 
stasiman |
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I have much more to learn. I am a pretty capable outdoorsman but I have absolutely no tinkering or shop skills. Can't say I would be worth much in rebuilding society. Don't feel bad. Hang out here and learn. Another thing you can do to gain knowledge is to volunteer to help with projects for family and friends. I used to attend church very regularly when I was younger. I volunteered thousands of hours to the church helping more experienced people on building projects. What a wonderful way to get experience on all aspects of building. When poor folks had car troubles I would volunteer to help other mechanically experienced people go and fix it if we could. That was the start for me. Then I worked with my Uncle in his mechanic shop, working on cars in the early 90's. I just had a knack for finding people who could teach me. My good friend who was a machinist in the Navy has taught me to be a very proficient machinist. Now we have a machine shop together with great capabilities. Do you have people around you would can or would be willing to help you to learn? It might require some late nights and early mornings and hard work for no pay......other than building your mind. Any family who work on their own stuff who could use a helping hand on their projects? |
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Thanks all. Didn't want to turn this into a poor me thread. I think it really hit me after watching the show and my wife and brother in law stated they would rather die than live in a world after TEOTWAWKI. So I started thinking what would a post disaster world be like? This theme seems to be common among most of my friends. Why is my desire so strong to keep living after it all (I'm the one with a major medical condition) when my chances for survival are so slim? I guess I would like to see a better world emerge for my son. I also see the importance of community. Since I started reading this forum I have had my opinions and world views constantly tested, torn down and rebuilt. Sometimes I just miss the days when I never thought about disaster or being prepared.
By the way I told my wife that since she married me, there is no giving up. Well as long as my body holds up. Anyway time to get back to work. |
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jman9599,
I think the responses to this post show you exactly what will happen. The future of society is whatever people believe it to be – whatever they work towards. I suspect that the biggest danger post-apocalypse will be people I know and chat with on this forum and in the survival community. The attitude of “every man for himself”, “dog eat dog”, “survival of the fittest”, “natural selection”, whatever you want to call it. I believe that the “meek will inherit the earth”, and we will see small self sufficient communities or we will rebuild what we have now. Sure there will be violence, but not chaos. And if I’m wrong I really see no point in surviving anyway. When the SHTF I’m going to be helping people and if that gets me killed, that’s a price I’m willing to pay because there is no acceptable alternative in my mind. |
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i thought the show was actually a good "what if" exercise. unfortunately, the family portrayed was likely similar to many of the sheeple out there. sure they did lots of stupid stuff, but in an end of the world event most people will die b/c they make simple, stupid mistakes.
the commentators added some interesting ideas, but this show could've been a great educational tool instead of a "we're screwed" type of show. the show did make some interesting points. for example, old methods of doing things (e.g., farming) will return, but with improvements/updates. some of the obvious problems the show addressed were lack of modern medicine, antibiotics specifically. the father in the show died b/c of a simple cut that got infected. this was over dramatized, but is a simple lesson, which is, a little prep now (i.e., putting away hydrogen peroxide and/or triple antibiotic ointment) would have prevented this. i know the family had to bug out and had nothing, but again another simple lesson, have a BOB w/ a well stocked FAK. other points i thought worthy of mentioning. water, you have it you're more likely to live, you don't you die. take home, store water and all you need to purify it. also, locate your BOL near a water source. medicines - learn herbal remedies and/or store as many meds as you can (expiration dates being the obvious problems). food production - those who know how to do it and have done it will be worth their weight in gold. even knowing how to do a simple container garden will be valuable knowledge. your food storage will be what you use until you can start harvesting. all kinds of lessons of what not to do. the show was not w/o it's issues, and like i said, i think they could've made it a more educational show. but it reconfirmed, for me, that the small simple steps i take now will put me way ahead of joe average and exponentially increase the likelihood of my survival and that of my family. |
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Who run Minneapolis town?? mcnielsen runs Minneapolis town. Two men enter, One man leaves! Prepper "I know you won't break the rules: There aren't any!" _Dr. Dealgood
And this leads to the After Apocalypse aspect, there are no rules! No ill-will directed at the OP, just some sharing of ideas. Why is it we convince ourselves humankind has to start over from scratch? All the way back to grabastic aimlessly wandering nomads? It's not a given. We still have a lot of technology, that's what batmanacw is saying. People will form small groups and barter, trade and work together, that's what Ops is saying. It will all depend on the nature of the collapse. We may get back to a local economy and an agrarian/pioneer "old west" late 1800s way of life as we saw in the After Apocalypse show. Heck, they still had vehicles! it's quite plausible. I think they did a good job showing that some people will go apeshit, killing and stealing their way to a full belly, but, eventually "like minded" folks will join together, they will have a plan, and most importantly in the short run, a common defense. We have to watch out for the absolute statements. I will pick one out, paraphrased...."we will eventually run out of fuel." Let's see, on the surface it's quick to bite on that notion and conjur up the Mad Max image, fighting for the last drops of oil. But let's think about it...The USA is the 4th largest producer of crude oil in the world!! Not enough to live by current standards, but enough to keep some lights on and trucks rolling. The USA is the Saudi Arabia of coal. Let's not doubt the fact we would dig it out of the ground, and we would burn it, push come to shove. We have natural gas too. So the glass may be Half-full, not totally empty. Our standard of living may be that of the typical American during WWII, with food and gas rationing. A far cry from wandering the plains looking for the buffalo dung. 
The big question is this: What is the 'Big Bang' that causes thing to collapse or break down? If you know this, then you can make some educated guesses as to how things might regress, how far they would regress, and how people would end up coping. The Mad Max scenario is probably not the most likely, nor is automatically being knocked back 10,000 years in human progress. |
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For those looking for future airings on History Channel - show title:
After Armageddon: What have past acts of destruction taught us about what will happen to mankind after the apocalypse? Is it inevitable that disaster will someday strike America on an unprecedented level? How has history prepared us? History's most dramatic events––Hiroshima, 9/11, Hurricane Katrina and others––are examined and analyzed with hard data gathered from their massive aftereffects. The disappearance of water and food supplies, the effects of deteriorated sanitation and health care on the remaining population, and the increased use of violence as a means of survival––all illustrate how societies have responded and survived. |
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Sorry for double reply...
Walking across the Mojave? with little or no water? During the heat of the day? They could have at least hunkered during the day and moved at night? Worn some hats to shade their heads. I thought the walking across the desert sequence was stretching it a bit. Where were all the bicycles? You would think there would be people using a lot of bicycles, like in third world countries. Anything that rolls? Even with a skateboard you could coast down the other side of a hill? A baby stroller to carry your BOB, food and water. I would of snatched the shotgun from that little kid real fast and made it my "boom-stick". "Alright you Primitive Screwheads, listen up! You see this?" You can "blow" or "suck" household plumbing pipes and force some of the water in the pipes down to a low outlet/faucet. Place a bucket at the lowest point you can find, even if it means cutting a pipe open down low. Sometimes water heaters will get scale build up inside and it will block the purge valve at the bottom. Open the valve and if nothing comes out, or only a drip, try sticking a wire or coathanger up into the purge valve to dislodge the scale/lime, sometimes this will yield many gallons when most people would think it was empty. Pure water in radiators? That's a new one to me. I was under the understanding that all modern cooling systems require coolant. The risk there is pretty high on the Dying Time roulette wheel. The big story in this show may have been closer to the beginning. Bugging IN seemed like a good idea when they first decided to do it, but not venturing out and measuring the amount of decline was their downfall. perhaps they may have chosen to BugOut a few weeks earlier, still had some supplies, and before the wanton lawlessness gripped the city. Lastly, ARM YOURSELF!! so let's say this guy was an anti-gun tree hugger? When he finally saw the roving marauders, if he knew of any dead neighbor that even had a 38 revolver, that would have been the time to go for it. Caught in that predicament, huddling in your house waiting for the murderous rapists to come in is one thing, huddling with a firearm prepared to fight is quite another. My point being even the ultra-meek might have reason to brandish if things got that bad. |
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I dont watch or have TV except a couple local channels .
Post like this makes me glad Im mechanically inclined. How many wish you could be on junk yard wars , I would be willing to pay to be on that show . Im a firm believer in if a person is motivated enuff they can do about anything . I also believe in never passing up learning a new skill set , I dabble in new skill sets all the time . I only regret what I havnt done not what I have done . Look around at the news , especially when its someone getting in trouble with the gov on zoning or land use issues youll see some creative things . ie There was a article posted here I think a good while back about a guy who got in trouble for generating power on a river .. he did not build a dam , he built a floating platform that he could anchor in the current that contained a generator ran by a paddle wheel and was using it to power his cabin or something of the nature. Normally I see one or 2 articles a month with similar stuff . |
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Sorry for double reply... Walking across the Mojave? with little or no water? During the heat of the day? They could have at least hunkered during the day and moved at night? Worn some hats to shade their heads. I thought the walking across the desert sequence was stretching it a bit.They would have been sunbleached bones in short order Where were all the bicycles? You would think there would be people using a lot of bicycles, like in third world countries. Anything that rolls? Even with a skateboard you could coast down the other side of a hill? A baby stroller to carry your BOB, food and water. Any kind wheels even a "the road" shopping cart I would of snatched the shotgun from that little kid real fast and made it my "boom-stick". "Alright you Primitive Screwheads, listen up! You see this?" He had guns then he would not have guns.... did not compute You can "blow" or "suck" household plumbing pipes and force some of the water in the pipes down to a low outlet/faucet. Place a bucket at the lowest point you can find, even if it means cutting a pipe open down low. Sometimes water heaters will get scale build up inside and it will block the purge valve at the bottom. Open the valve and if nothing comes out, or only a drip, try sticking a wire or coathanger up into the purge valve to dislodge the scale/lime, sometimes this will yield many gallons when most people would think it was empty. Nice tip Pure water in radiators? That's a new one to me. I was under the understanding that all modern cooling systems require coolant. The risk there is pretty high on the Dying Time roulette wheel.Had trucks and tractors that leaked some as a kid on Dad's farm. We ran straight water and drained them for winter. In the desert without a chance of a freeze lots of old stuff will be running pure water The big story in this show may have been closer to the beginning. Bugging IN seemed like a good idea when they first decided to do it, but not venturing out and measuring the amount of decline was their downfall. perhaps they may have chosen to BugOut a few weeks earlier, still had some supplies, and before the wanton lawlessness gripped the city.But they balanced the Bug In /Bug Out with the burn out of the virus. They had to wait out the plauge. Lastly, ARM YOURSELF!! so let's say this guy was an anti-gun tree hugger? When he finally saw the roving marauders, if he knew of any dead neighbor that even had a 38 revolver, that would have been the time to go for it. Caught in that predicament, huddling in your house waiting for the murderous rapists to come in is one thing, huddling with a firearm prepared to fight is quite another. My point being even the ultra-meek might have reason to brandish if things got that bad. He don't post here. He didn't own any icky guns and it took a while for him to realize he needed one.
I enjoyed the show. I also agree with your take on it. The he has a gun now he doesn't drove me nuts. |
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I'll add an overall good note for this show. Despite the fact that they may have portrayed some things differently than what some of us would do,
or would like to see, we have to give someone credit for putting it together, and for it actually being aired. Though it's missing some things, it's probably the closest account of how things could go down that i have ever seen on tv. Our fellow SFer's would have faired much better, I trust. On the other hand, there are some sheeple out there that may do far worse than the intrepid TV show family. Given a vote, I would vote, YES, please air some more shows like this, with other survival scenarios, maybe with some survival experts chiming in with advice along the way. Nothing wrong with showing someone who had stored 3 motnhs worth of goods, and the trials and tribulations he might go through protecting and rationing it out. |