[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 9mm round for shtf (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/2/2009 12:38:25 PM EDT
| What type of 9mm round do you stockpile for shtf. I like most cant afford to stockpile the exotic stuff so wonder what bulk 9mm ammo everyone is stockpiling. Right now I have on hand 800 rnds of federal american eagle 147 grn FMJ and 200 rrnds of WWB in 115 grn fmj. Is there another round type that I should be buying that can be bought in bulk for a decent price? |
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I do NOT want to start a 9mm vs .45 thread! The 9mm can be an adequate defensive round. However, it does virtually require the use of a decent expanding hollowpoint bullet. The track record of 9mm in any FMJ flavor is miserable. I personally relegate 9mm FMJ to one role only: Plinking.
For real shtf useage you need something with some sort of semi-reasonable stopping power. In 9mm this means it MUST be an expanding bullet. You can quibble over types and specifics but there is near universal support for the use of a JHP bullet. To be specific I stockpile 124 hollow points. In my case it is Speer 124 Gold Dot +P. THese are pricey. I supplement these with quantities of my own hand loads using 124 Hornady XTPs. I also have some 115 JHP factory loads kicking around. I'm not particularly fussy, but I am adamant about one point: If you use a 9mm you'd better be shooting a reliably expanding bullet. FMJ 9mm's won't cut it. THey are inadequate. I would argue that you are better prepared with 200 rounds of JHPs in 9mm than to have 500 rounds of 9mm fmjs..... My two cents. No flames intended. You asked, I answered. Sorry........ |
I have to agree in general with frozenny above –– enough so that I quit buying bulk FMJ 9mm quite a while back and buy good 9mm JHP, preferably GDHPs, in bulk whenever I can find a somewhat-decent deal (I was all over the bulk-packed GDHP from [ammo-vendor-who-shall-not-be-mentioned-here-because-of-the flame-that-always-ensues] when he used to have it from time to time and I have a bunch of the Georgia Arms GDHP loadings on hand, good stuff IMHO). About the only thing I use FMJ 9mm for any more is breaking in new 9mms, function-testing used ones that I pick up, and for letting quests shoot my 9mms at the range. (Even at that, I still have plenty on hand.)  |
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Quoted:
I do NOT want to start a 9mm vs .45 thread! The 9mm can be an adequate defensive round. However, it does virtually require the use of a decent expanding hollowpoint bullet. The track record of 9mm in any FMJ flavor is miserable. I personally relegate 9mm FMJ to one role only: Plinking. For real shtf useage you need something with some sort of semi-reasonable stopping power. In 9mm this means it MUST be an expanding bullet. You can quibble over types and specifics but there is near universal support for the use of a JHP bullet. To be specific I stockpile 124 hollow points. In my case it is Speer 124 Gold Dot +P. THese are pricey. I supplement these with quantities of my own hand loads using 124 Hornady XTPs. I also have some 115 JHP factory loads kicking around. I'm not particularly fussy, but I am adamant about one point: If you use a 9mm you'd better be shooting a reliably expanding bullet. FMJ 9mm's won't cut it. THey are inadequate. I would argue that you are better prepared with 200 rounds of JHPs in 9mm than to have 500 rounds of 9mm fmjs..... My two cents. No flames intended. You asked, I answered. Sorry........ this. a 9mm FMJ will cause serious hurt, no doubt, but in the time it takes somebody to bleed out from the hole the 9mm put all the way through them, they could kill you or your family. you want something that will cause catastrophic bodily system failure and stops them right now. JHP is the answer regardless of the caliber. |
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A larger caliber only allows for a greater margin of error, IMO. A .22lr in the head will be more effective that a .45 in the hand. Same can be said about FMJ vs. HP. A 9mm FMJ center chest will break the breastbone and cause significant trauma to the heart. A HP only increased the size of the terminal area in the body.
That said, I keep 147gr. WWB JHP. Their cheaper that Gold Dot and those I've recovered showed good expansion. |
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Quoted:
To be specific I stockpile 124 hollow points. In my case it is Speer 124 Gold Dot +P. THese are pricey. I supplement these with quantities of my own hand loads using 124 Hornady XTPs. I'm with you on this, I reload the 124gr Hornady XTP's Quoted:FMJ 9mm's won't cut it. They are inadequate.
I find this funny every time I see it. You know that in WWII everyone wanted the 9MM, it was SO much better. This fight will go on and on, but I know few things. I know that I can shoot the 9MM at a greater range, faster, and more accurately. I have never had anyone get back up after I shot them, and I have used a .45 also. |
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i carry 124gr+p gold dots. its whats most accurate out of my pistols, but i have other premium jhps laying around too. if i expend them in some hellish scenario, i would thank the Gods i survived and load up my training ammo to continue.
for general shtf ammo i am looking for bang for my buck. two good loads i look for are federal 9ble, and winchester personal defense 147gr jhp. both offer pretty good performance for the price with the latter being available all over. but when it really gets down to it, bullet placement trumps all. i would not feel under gunned carrying fmjs. if all you can afford is fmjs, go with fmjs. with the money you save you can cover other areas of your preps that you will need like professional training or more food/water/etc. i cant stress professional weapons training enough. i can shoot pretty well, but the couple of courses i attended made me a faster and safer shooter. you will pick up things to put in your tool box that you wont hear of anywhere else. then, you can come back and slowly replenish what you expend for on going training with premium jhps. |
| I have mostly Remington JHP.........to be honest Id have have both if I could find it....While a FMJ 9mm may not be the man stopper .45 is it sure as hell will be a man slower downer.......and beats a slingshot, especially between the eyes (yes I know the chances are slim in a real gunfight) Right now stock what you can find.....if you have a choice take the JHP |
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Over the years, I've accumulated at least 1,000 rounds of 124 gr +P Speer Gold Dots for my SHTF stash. I love the 9mm, but IMHO it needs a high performance round like the 124 +p GD in order for me to feel comfortable. I still have about 600 rounds of the reclassified GD's that were floating around five years ago and another 500+ rounds I bought from a guy on sigforum.com in 2007. I paid less than $300 for all of it, I'd be patient and try to find good deals as 9mm stock increases.
BTW, I also have over 1,000+ rounds of 124 gr Remington Golden Sabre handloads that I loaded for practice and SHTF backup. Last year, I bought 1k of 124 gr GS bullets from Midway for $79, used my own once fired WWB brass, bought 1k CCI SP primers for $20, and 1 lb of Power Pistol for $14. Assuming you already have reloading equipment, you can load a premium performing 9mm load for as little as $113/k. |
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Quoted: I say that because availability (esp 9mm) has been so poor locally, I could quickly burn through my personal defense ammo and have to repel boarders with fmj...not preferred but  I hope you are referring to only having maybe 20 or so JHP ammo? B/C if you are needing more than that you need to un-ass the area PDQ.  I've seen a number of people shot with 9mm FMJ and JHP. Both rounds will kill you. Shot placement is key. That said, I spend the money and buy the Speer Gold Dots. Lets all pray we never need them! |
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Quoted:
I do NOT want to start a 9mm vs .45 thread! The 9mm can be an adequate defensive round. However, it does virtually require the use of a decent expanding hollowpoint bullet. The track record of 9mm in any FMJ flavor is miserable. I personally relegate 9mm FMJ to one role only: Plinking. For real shtf useage you need something with some sort of semi-reasonable stopping power. In 9mm this means it MUST be an expanding bullet. You can quibble over types and specifics but there is near universal support for the use of a JHP bullet. To be specific I stockpile 124 hollow points. In my case it is Speer 124 Gold Dot +P. THese are pricey. I supplement these with quantities of my own hand loads using 124 Hornady XTPs. I also have some 115 JHP factory loads kicking around. I'm not particularly fussy, but I am adamant about one point: If you use a 9mm you'd better be shooting a reliably expanding bullet. FMJ 9mm's won't cut it. THey are inadequate. I would argue that you are better prepared with 200 rounds of JHPs in 9mm than to have 500 rounds of 9mm fmjs..... My two cents. No flames intended. You asked, I answered. Sorry........ I agree but the one factor that has to be presant for even the best JHP is speed. There are a lot if police shootings studies on the 9mm from back in the 70s and 80s when lots of departments went to the 9. Good hits aside the one consistant factor in terminal balistics was that very fast moving small projectiles expanded and came apart in soft tissue and the slower sub-sonic 9mm and slightly sonic 9mm did not perform well in soft tissue. If i remember the studies the 9mm round needed to get over 1200fps to expand on a consistant basis. If I am not mistaking the top performer in police shooting is the 124 Gr +p+ semi jacketed HP in 357. I carry +p+ 9mm in my G19. I also have a reg sub gun in 9mm but does it realy matter when 6 FMJ 9MM rounds hit the torso at the same time? With all that said, good shot placement is still more iimportant then what round you choose. |
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I been loading for years a 90 grain Hornady XTP in 9mm with AA #7 powder in a max load,think about 9 grains and it is hot and run it in my two door carbines for my wife Ruger Police Carbines and at 50 yards is near a one holer for two rapid shots.Have not run it in the matching Ruger P85 old heavy pistols as companion guns but expect the same results.
Nine milimeter is a pain to load but the round that works for me above has caused major grief for coyotes in the yard that get close enough at time to toss firewood at them.If nine seems not enough a .223 M4 sits alongside each of them also. |
| I dont store what I wouldnt bank my life on. While I dont store an exorbant amount of it. I carry 147 grain Federal Hydra Shok in my G19. I dont believe I will ever need hundreds or thousands of round for a side arm. IF one expects that kind of trouble then he has much larger issues at hand and should consider enlisting the help of several friends who come carrying rifles. |
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Quoted:
Most of my 9mm is 115 WWB. Now that I have a 9mm suppressor I'm only buying 147gr ammo. Sucks to start over again but man is it sweet to have a subsonic 9mm AR SBR  . G17's with 33rd mags and a suppressor are fun too.
If you reload you can run 115 & 124 grain sub sonic also. |
I daily carry 124 grain Gold Dot for my CCW G19. In years past I stockpiled a LOT of 124 grain +P+ HydraShocks which I still have. I know that compared to the Gold Dots that the Hydrashocks are considered old technology and poorer performers but I am not going to replace them and spend a fortune buying a few thousand Gold Dots. The Hydrashocks will just have to do the job even if I have to use more than one .
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I think it makes sense to have a couple hundered rounds of the good stuff, for example:
Barnes XPB 115gr HP (35515) loaded by Cor-Bon (DPX09115) Winchester Partition Gold 124gr JHP (RA91P) Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP) Winchester Ranger-T 127gr JHP +P+ (RA9TA) Winchester Ranger-T 147gr JHP (RA9T) Winchester Bonded 147gr JHP (RA9B/Q4364) Speer Gold Dot 124gr JHP +P (53617) Speer Gold Dot 147gr JHP (53619) Remington Golden Saber 147gr JHP (GS9MMC) Federal Tactical 124gr JHP (LE9T1) Federal Tactical 135gr JHP +P (LE9T5) Federal HST 147gr JHP (P9HST2) http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#9mm |
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OP
Don't get caught up in the X bullet is better than this Y bullet or this is better than that. I have been shooting and training with LE and Civilians for a long time. I can't tell you how many times I have seen guys with larger calibers, higher priced guns with the last high tech stuff attached, wearing the newest latest tacticool clothing and vests. Extended mags for their pistols, ranger plates/Magpuls for their AR mags and on and on, THAT CAN'T SHOOT. Find something that fits your hand that is 99% reliable. Train, Train, Train with it. Learn to shoot accurately. Then learn to shoot accurately with speed. Then learn how to shoot accurately with speed while moving. Your 9millie XYZ bullet will do find. |
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Quoted:
If you want to go through the trouble, you can buy a whole can of lacquer at Home Depot, Loewe's etc and just point a single drop on the case mouth and primer, and let dry, that will waterproof all the ammo.
I'll add this; the slightest bit of moisture on an federal American eagle will render it useless. I have had a few range outings in the lightest of rain that rendered my federal American eagle into duds. |
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I have a good supply of HP. But I also stock a ton of ball. For practice and emergencies. Notice I did not mention the caliber? Because any ball ammo sucks compared to HP. Whether it is 9mm or 40SW or 45 FMJ sucks at stopping people quickly.
Also keep in mind SHTF takes many forms. Do you need 1000 Hp for SHTF? No, having 200-300 is probably over kill. TEOTWAKI it changes. But ball still has its place. Why? IF you get laid off hours cut etc. One of the more likely SHTF scenarios for most) You can still practice with the ball and not be as worried about the cost. You can still plink to reduce stress. Say you have 1K for SHTF ammo (you all ready know what your gun likes). You can buy 1K or so of the JHP of the week. Or you can buy a couple hundred of those and around 4K of ball. Now you will be set for anything short of TEOTWAKI, and still be able to practice, plink etc if money gets tight. As you get more funds buy some more JHP to cycle through your training. And more ball. |
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Quoted:
OP Don't get caught up in the X bullet is better than this Y bullet or this is better than that. I have been shooting and training with LE and Civilians for a long time. I can't tell you how many times I have seen guys with larger calibers, higher priced guns with the last high tech stuff attached, wearing the newest latest tacticool clothing and vests. Extended mags for their pistols, ranger plates/Magpuls for their AR mags and on and on, THAT CAN'T SHOOT. Find something that fits your hand that is 99% reliable. Train, Train, Train with it. Learn to shoot accurately. Then learn to shoot accurately with speed. Then learn how to shoot accurately with speed while moving. Your 9millie XYZ bullet will do find. ^ THIS ^ I'm .45 guy, love the 1911s, but I am not a 9mm "hater". I also have a Glock 17 and can shoot it just as well as my 1911. As BRONZ said above, it's important that you know how to shoot and place a shot. or several. If you are proficient, your 9mm will serve you well. As others have said, grab some boxes of HPs for HomeDefense purposes if you get a chance when/if ammo is back on the shelf regularly. In a perfect world when supply is back to normal, shoot your FMJs for practice, and then replace back with some boxes of HPs until you achieve a good ratio. If you do start stocking HPs, MAKE SURE you do go and shoot more than a couple mags full of them. Maybe shoot 2 to 4 boxes of them initially. Anytime you switch ammo brands or bullet types you want to MAKE SURE they function flawlessly in your weapon. You don't want to jack a mag full of new HPs into your pistol on SHTF +1 and find they FTF. In SHTF everyone is going to use what the have. Be proficient with what you have. 9mm ball is still gonna put a hurtin on someone if the shots are placed well. In SHTF they may not have such immediate medical support as they do right now, that could spell big trouble for anyone with a gunshot wound. Mortality rates will skyrocket without fast modern medical services. |
| For my 9mm, I literally keep one box of premium defensive ammo (124gr Magtech Guardian Gold). I also have a stock of ball that could be used for defensive purposes (although not the optimum choice) if I did have to use every last hollow point I have. For any conceivable situation, I don't see that as "not enough". Especially if I bug in, my primary defensive weapon WILL be a long-gun (I have plenty of SP and HP ammo for my AR, buck and slugs for the 12). I probably will buy an couple of extra boxes of 9mm HP eventually, but its not too high on my priority list. I would much rather by range ammo that I will actually use. |
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I try to always keep a couple hundred rounds of the good stuff around in 9mm.
I have some Speer 124 grain +P Gold dot stashed, and some Remington Golden Saber. I'm more than comfortable using 9mm's for defensive purposes, but ONLY with premium HP ammunition. Like others have said, just watch for a good deal on reclassified LE ammunition and stock up then. |
| LESS FILLING!!!!! GREAT TASTE!!!!! LESS FILLING!!!! GREAT TASTE!!!! Geez! I hate these stupid arguments. While I agree HPs are usually preferable for self-defense, 9mm ball ammo will kill a bad guy just as dead and just as quickly as .45acp Cor Bon HPs if you do your part, which is much easier to do if you practice, which is much easier to afford with 9mm ball vs HP. I've had .45s all my life and had good results with them, but the 1911 itself had a lot to do with that too. I always figured bigger was better, like many folks here do, so I went with "conventional wisdom". Conversely, for years I hated 9mms as ineffective...until I got one. It took time and exposure, but the 9mm earned my respect, and now I am a 9mm convert. Easier to control, usually smaller package, usually higher ammo capacity, cheaper to practice with, and more than adequate for any job I've ever used it for. And unlike many "experts" on the subject, I have actually used my 9mm in anger against an armed assailant....I'm still here and my attacker is not. Apparently he thought I was shooting a .45 and not a 9mm I guess. You may run across a linebacker-sized bad guy that wants to do you harm, but I guarantee you he won't be as big or tenacious as the 1000lb feral cow (horns intact) that came into my hunting camp last season in the middle of the night and took exception to my efforts to "shoo" her away. Whether I startled her or she just figured she was entitled to the pile of spilled deer corn at the back of my son's truck didn't matter at that point, she charged me!! One round of (THANK YOU for Trijicon night sights and Laser Max guide rod laser) 9mm ball into the forehead at 20 feet and closing dropped her like a rock. The same Glock 19 put down a 1200lb horse that had severely injured itself and had to be destroyed.....again, one well-placed shot resulted in a humane and instant kill. Ball ammo in both cases by the way! It's all about shot placement, and whatever allows you to practice enough to achieve THAT in a critical moment is what you should go with. Yes, I keep my G19 loaded with HPs most of the time, but I practice with ball, and use ball ammo when I am out at the lease or working doing outdoor work and am not worried about over-penetration. I would, and have, stack deep in the realtively inexpensive ball ammo, and keep a decent quantity of high-performance HPs on hand for when it is needed or appropriate. Odds that you will need to practice are high, odds that you will be in an armed confrontation requiring HPs is not as high, but is also what we practice and plan for. Stock accordingly. |
| I'm looking at the same thing right now for my 40 S&W! Get what you can any round is better then no rounds at all! Pick up what you can when you can if you can buy bulk 100rds 9mm FMJ for the same price of one 20 round box of JHP then get the FMJ! With my 45acp I have I'm up to 500rds FMJ so right now I'm looking to pick up only JHP I have about 100 rds JHP right now but I would like to get more to make a 50/50 mix since FMJ 45acp is hard to find now it works out! |
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Quoted:
With the economy and supply and availability being what they are I say any round you can get your hands on will suffice. If the SHTF any round available is going to be the one you use. This.... First rule...have a gun. Second rule; have ammo, any kind of ammo. |
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9mm is utter and complete fail for your SHTF round. Even from a carbine, you are at a huge disadvantage if you face a rifle armed attacker. If you are going with a loading over 115g. it will drop like a rock after 50 yds. If the perp has light body armor you're hosed. If he is behind any kind of cover you're hosed. Geez...you can pick up a WASR-10 these days for around $350, and 7.62x39 ammo is dropping quickly and can be had for around $200.00/1000 now, with more price decreases coming for sure. Get one. No, the 9mm round is a pistol round and it should be used as such. I've always been fascinated by and do-want some of the semi-auto SMG conversions coming out now like the Sterling, PPSH, and Skopion. These are way up on the cool factor. But for a gunfight, esp. under 300yds? Gimme an AK in the original 7.62x39 loading. If you want to spend some coin then go AR, but the .30 cal round has significantly better penetration against wood/masonry, the kind of cover your assailant will probably fire from. Now if you are talking just survival, then the venerable .22LR wins. I'd go with a .22Mag, imho the most underrated survival round out there. |
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Quoted:
9mm is utter and complete fail for your SHTF round. Even from a carbine, you are at a huge disadvantage if you face a rifle armed attacker. If you are going with a loading over 115g. it will drop like a rock after 50 yds. If the perp has light body armor you're hosed. If he is behind any kind of cover you're hosed. Geez...you can pick up a WASR-10 these days for around $350, and 7.62x39 ammo is dropping quickly and can be had for around $200.00/1000 now, with more price decreases coming for sure. Get one. No, the 9mm round is a pistol round and it should be used as such. I've always been fascinated by and do-want some of the semi-auto SMG conversions coming out now like the Sterling, PPSH, and Skopion. These are way up on the cool factor. But for a gunfight, esp. under 300yds? Gimme an AK in the original 7.62x39 loading. If you want to spend some coin then go AR, but the .30 cal round has significantly better penetration against wood/masonry, the kind of cover your assailant will probably fire from. Now if you are talking just survival, then the venerable .22LR wins. I'd go with a .22Mag, imho the most underrated survival round out there. I don't think you are on the same page as the OP here. He was asking about 9mm ammo, not whether a pistol is better than a rifle. It's a little hard to go to the store with your AK on your shoulder, or to chop wood, hoe a garden, or do any number of other mundane tasks with a long gun in your hands, but a pistol is something you can always have with you. Oh, and that AK may be a bit unwieldy in the car or cab of a truck or tractor, but a pistol won't be. That's basically why most of us even have pistols, because it is the gun you have with you at all times.....and remember Rule Number One of gunfights: Have a gun. Yes, when armed with a pistol of any description you will be at a disadvantage against an assailant with a rifle as long as the distance is farther than a few feet, and the longer the range the greater the disadvantage you will be at. It's a given that most of us already have, or plan to get, a combat rifle of some description. It's a given that most of us have or plan to have a .22lr of some type. But most of us also have or plan to have a pistol too, and that requires a pistol round, and for most of us that means a 9mm, .40, or .45acp. And since that is the case, then asking what type of that ammo to stock up on is a reasonable question. I'm curious about two things though. First, where did the carbine thing even enter the picture here since only one person even mentioned them, and in the same sentence stated that he had an M4 for more challenging situations; and second, what experience do you bring to the table that allows such a broad statement that condemns the 9mm as totally inadequate for SHTF? Personally, I think a carbine in the same cartridge that you have a pistol in is a great addition to your battery, especially if you can use the same magazines as is possible with some versions of the Marlin Camp guns. While not a match for either a .223 or 7.62x39, a 9mm from a carbine will definitely extend the effective range and, more importantly, the accurate range, of your pistol round. There are lots of scenarios where this could come in handy. As to the 9mm being totally inadequate, I just can't believe anyone would make such an all-encompassing statement like that without evidence to back it up. There are a number of people on this forum as well as entire nations of military and LEOs that would love to hear the evidence on how they made such a poor decision. I guess I am just VERY lucky that the armed gang-banger that broke into my home a few years ago with intent to rob and rape didn't realize that the double tap of 9mm I put into him shouldn't have stopped him dead-cold in his tracks. His buddy must have thought it was a AK I was shooting too, because he immediately dropped his weapon and hit his knees with his hands in the air. By the way, BG #1 was dead with the first round, but double taps are what I practice (there's that word again), so when the SHTF in my house, double tap is what I did. It's amazing how training, if you have it, just takes over in a stressful situation. I'd love to hear your personal story about how the 9mm failed you. It may be that I've just been incredibly lucky to this point and you could shed some light on why I should immediately dump all my 9mm guns and ammo and rush out to buy something that will do the job. Oh, and please don't bore us with stories like the FBI shoot-out and such, because if you don't hit them in a fatal spot, they ain't gonna die no matter what you hit them with...at least not quickly. Shit, they had a shootout near my area a year or so ago where 3 cops fired over 40 rounds at a perp that was standing beside a Chevy Suburban. Not only did they NOT hit the perp with a single round, but they MISSED the broadside Suburban he was standing in front of too!!!!! Caliber is NO substitute for shot placement, and shot placement takes practice (oops, that word just keeps on popping up, doesn't it). When it comes down to the nuts of the thing, a well-placed hit with a 25acp will trump a miss with a 50BMG, so get what you can shoot well, and then practice with it under as many conditions as you can come up with. The only round that is totally inadequate for SHTF is the one you can't hit shit with. EDIT: As I reread my post, I noticed I may have been a bit harsh on Tomato. While sarcasm was intended, harshness was not. I have personal reasons for taking offense to those that tell others that a 9mm is inadequate for self defense, because it indicates to me they are not speaking from experience, but from hearsay. When you have personally witnessed the mess a 9mm makes of a man's chest and head, you know differently. When you have had to clean your floors, wall, and ceiling of all the blood and other matter that was sprayed from the head and torso of a man you had to shoot in self defense, you get a first-hand look at just how "ineffective" the 9mm is. To that, add the fact that I have used it effectively against animals much larger than man, and while it was never intended for the purpose, it was the gun I had with me and it did the job. I try to make it a practice not to make statements or judgements that I cannot speak on from personal experience, and if I do speak outside my own experiences, I make sure that I label my comments as such. In my old age I have grown weary of "parrots"...those that just repeat what they have heard, but have no idea of why they are saying it. If I mis-judged you Tomato, then please accept my apologies. If not, then please learn to temper your own statements with facts. |
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Quoted:
I do NOT want to start a 9mm vs .45 thread! The 9mm can be an adequate defensive round. However, it does virtually require the use of a decent expanding hollowpoint bullet. The track record of 9mm in any FMJ flavor is miserable. I personally relegate 9mm FMJ to one role only: Plinking. For real shtf useage you need something with some sort of semi-reasonable stopping power. In 9mm this means it MUST be an expanding bullet. You can quibble over types and specifics but there is near universal support for the use of a JHP bullet. To be specific I stockpile 124 hollow points. In my case it is Speer 124 Gold Dot +P. THese are pricey. I supplement these with quantities of my own hand loads using 124 Hornady XTPs. .. FMJ 9mm's won't cut it. THey are inadequate. I would argue that you are better prepared with 200 rounds of JHPs in 9mm than to have 500 rounds of 9mm fmjs..... My two cents. No flames intended. You asked, I answered. Sorry........ I agree 100% The 115gr stuff should be regulated "For Training Only' this also goes for the 115gr HPs which generally have poor penetration. For HPs you want 147gr or 124gr loads with a modern design (i.e skip the generics and skip 'Hydrashocks'). |
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One thing you have to remember too. Many allies dies as the result of getting hit my P-08's, P-38's and MP-40's, all of which used the 9mm round. Many European, Asian and American police forces still use the 9x19 or the weaker 9x18 round with effect.
As the previous poster mentions, this is not comparing the effectiveness of the 9mm to a rifle cartridge or to a 45ACP. The basis of this thread is to find effective rounds for the 9mm. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
9mm Any pistol caliber is utter and complete fail for your SHTF round. Even from a carbine, you are at a huge disadvantage if you face a rifle armed attacker. quote] Fix it for ya. And you can't be to discrete with an AK in your pocket. Amen brother Bronz! |
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Quoted:
One thing you have to remember too. Many allies dies as the result of getting hit my P-08's, P-38's and MP-40's, all of which used the 9mm round. Many European, Asian and American police forces still use the 9x19 or the weaker 9x18 round with effect. As the previous poster mentions, this is not comparing the effectiveness of the 9mm to a rifle cartridge or to a 45ACP. The basis of this thread is to find effective rounds for the 9mm. You kill your allies? That doesn't seem good for business  I keed, I keed.
To add my .02, Uncle Sugar issued me 9mm ball to go to combat... Just sayin, if it was so horrible, why are the real trigger pullers using it (or in my case being issued it as a medic, I'm not claiming to be a super high speed ninja seal ranger or anything) (I know that hp's are banned by the laws of war, I'm just saying that if it was SOOOOO ineffective then the .mil would have figured something else out.) |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 9mm round for shtf (Page 1 of 2)
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