[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 9mm round for shtf (Page 2 of 2)
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One thing you have to remember too. Many allies dies as the result of getting hit my P-08's, P-38's and MP-40's, all of which used the 9mm round. Many European, Asian and American police forces still use the 9x19 or the weaker 9x18 round with effect. As the previous poster mentions, this is not comparing the effectiveness of the 9mm to a rifle cartridge or to a 45ACP. The basis of this thread is to find effective rounds for the 9mm. You kill your allies? That doesn't seem good for business  I keed, I keed.
To add my .02, Uncle Sugar issued me 9mm ball to go to combat... Just sayin, if it was so horrible, why are the real trigger pullers using it (or in my case being issued it as a medic, I'm not claiming to be a super high speed ninja seal ranger or anything) (I know that hp's are banned by the laws of war, I'm just saying that if it was SOOOOO ineffective then the .mil would have figured something else out.) Exactly! Of course its nothing like the ZF-1: ZF-1. It's light. Handle's adjustable for easy carrying; good for righties and lefties. Breaks down into 4 parts, undetectable by x-ray; ideal for quick, discreet interventions. A word on firepower. Three thousand round clip with bursts of 3 to 300. With the Replay button (another Zorg invention) it's even easier. One shot, and Replay sends every following shot to the same location. And to finish the job, all the Zorg oldies but goldies. Rocket launcher. Arrow launcher, with explodin' and poisonous gas heads. Very practical. Our famous net launcher. The ALWAYS efficient flame-thrower. My favorite. And for the Grand Finale, the all new Ice Cube System!
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I'm just saying that if it was SOOOOO ineffective then the .mil would have figured something else out.) The military is profoundly uninterested in whether the ammunition they issue for a pistol (or the pistol itself) works. They feel they have bigger fish to fry. |
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One thing you have to remember too. Many allies dies as the result of getting hit my P-08's, P-38's and MP-40's, all of which used the 9mm round. Many European, Asian and American police forces still use the 9x19 or the weaker 9x18 round with effect. As the previous poster mentions, this is not comparing the effectiveness of the 9mm to a rifle cartridge or to a 45ACP. The basis of this thread is to find effective rounds for the 9mm. You kill your allies? That doesn't seem good for business I keed, I keed.
To add my .02, Uncle Sugar issued me 9mm ball to go to combat... Just sayin, if it was so horrible, why are the real trigger pullers using it (or in my case being issued it as a medic, I'm not claiming to be a super high speed ninja seal ranger or anything) (I know that hp's are banned by the laws of war, I'm just saying that if it was SOOOOO ineffective then the .mil would have figured something else out.) Exactly! Of course its nothing like the ZF-1: ZF-1. It's light. Handle's adjustable for easy carrying; good for righties and lefties. Breaks down into 4 parts, undetectable by x-ray; ideal for quick, discreet interventions. A word on firepower. Three thousand round clip with bursts of 3 to 300. With the Replay button (another Zorg invention) it's even easier. One shot, and Replay sends every following shot to the same location. And to finish the job, all the Zorg oldies but goldies. Rocket launcher. Arrow launcher, with explodin' and poisonous gas heads. Very practical. Our famous net launcher. The ALWAYS efficient flame-thrower. My favorite. And for the Grand Finale, the all new Ice Cube System! I guess I'm just old-fashioned. I like the old Federation Type-II Hand Phaser. It can kill if you need to (and since it vaporizes the victim, no messy clean up  ), you can use a less-than-lethal setting if you want (good for barking dogs or boyfriends that bring your daughter home late), and you can use it to heat rocks to keep you warm in cold weather!!
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What type of 9mm round do you stockpile for shtf. I like most cant afford to stockpile the exotic stuff so wonder what bulk 9mm ammo everyone is stockpiling. Right now I have on hand 800 rnds of federal american eagle 147 grn FMJ and 200 rrnds of WWB in 115 grn fmj. Is there another round type that I should be buying that can be bought in bulk for a decent price? I really like the 147 gr JHP. Hard hitting! Works in a supressed weapon! But if money is hard for you, like it is for most of us. As well as ammo being hard to fine! And you did ask about ammo for shtf. Not for daily CCW self defense. So for when the feces hit the fan, the bollon goes up. What ever you call it. Then any ammo you have will do! Most military (armys) world wide, use hardball. So if that is what you have. I would use it! As far as cost. (Wal-Mart in my area) still selling WW 9mm, 100 rds for about $20.00. Yes! If I have the money I try to buy a box or so a month. So buy what you can fine. Most of us do! PITA45 
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I'm just saying that if it was SOOOOO ineffective then the .mil would have figured something else out.) The military is profoundly uninterested in whether the ammunition they issue for a pistol (or the pistol itself) works. They feel they have bigger fish to fry. Riiiiggghtttt.... |
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I keep approx. 100 Rounds of Win. Ranger 124 gr. +P JHP's that I carry everyday.
Then I have approx. 500 Rounds of the Rem. 115 gr JHP's that I picked up from Wal Mart for $25 or a box of 100. These I keep for bulk SHTF. I also stockpile FMJ's for practice rounds. |
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9mm is utter and complete fail for your SHTF round. Even from a carbine, you are at a huge disadvantage if you face a rifle armed attacker. If you are going with a loading over 115g. it will drop like a rock after 50 yds. If the perp has light body armor you're hosed. If he is behind any kind of cover you're hosed. Geez...you can pick up a WASR-10 these days for around $350, and 7.62x39 ammo is dropping quickly and can be had for around $200.00/1000 now, with more price decreases coming for sure. Get one. No, the 9mm round is a pistol round and it should be used as such. I've always been fascinated by and do-want some of the semi-auto SMG conversions coming out now like the Sterling, PPSH, and Skopion. These are way up on the cool factor. But for a gunfight, esp. under 300yds? Gimme an AK in the original 7.62x39 loading. If you want to spend some coin then go AR, but the .30 cal round has significantly better penetration against wood/masonry, the kind of cover your assailant will probably fire from. Now if you are talking just survival, then the venerable .22LR wins. I'd go with a .22Mag, imho the most underrated survival round out there. I don't think you are on the same page as the OP here. He was asking about 9mm ammo, not whether a pistol is better than a rifle. It's a little hard to go to the store with your AK on your shoulder, or to chop wood, hoe a garden, or do any number of other mundane tasks with a long gun in your hands, but a pistol is something you can always have with you. Oh, and that AK may be a bit unwieldy in the car or cab of a truck or tractor, but a pistol won't be. That's basically why most of us even have pistols, because it is the gun you have with you at all times.....and remember Rule Number One of gunfights: Have a gun. Yes, when armed with a pistol of any description you will be at a disadvantage against an assailant with a rifle as long as the distance is farther than a few feet, and the longer the range the greater the disadvantage you will be at. It's a given that most of us already have, or plan to get, a combat rifle of some description. It's a given that most of us have or plan to have a .22lr of some type. But most of us also have or plan to have a pistol too, and that requires a pistol round, and for most of us that means a 9mm, .40, or .45acp. And since that is the case, then asking what type of that ammo to stock up on is a reasonable question. I'm curious about two things though. First, where did the carbine thing even enter the picture here since only one person even mentioned them, and in the same sentence stated that he had an M4 for more challenging situations; and second, what experience do you bring to the table that allows such a broad statement that condemns the 9mm as totally inadequate for SHTF? Personally, I think a carbine in the same cartridge that you have a pistol in is a great addition to your battery, especially if you can use the same magazines as is possible with some versions of the Marlin Camp guns. While not a match for either a .223 or 7.62x39, a 9mm from a carbine will definitely extend the effective range and, more importantly, the accurate range, of your pistol round. There are lots of scenarios where this could come in handy. As to the 9mm being totally inadequate, I just can't believe anyone would make such an all-encompassing statement like that without evidence to back it up. There are a number of people on this forum as well as entire nations of military and LEOs that would love to hear the evidence on how they made such a poor decision. I guess I am just VERY lucky that the armed gang-banger that broke into my home a few years ago with intent to rob and rape didn't realize that the double tap of 9mm I put into him shouldn't have stopped him dead-cold in his tracks. His buddy must have thought it was a AK I was shooting too, because he immediately dropped his weapon and hit his knees with his hands in the air. By the way, BG #1 was dead with the first round, but double taps are what I practice (there's that word again), so when the SHTF in my house, double tap is what I did. It's amazing how training, if you have it, just takes over in a stressful situation. I'd love to hear your personal story about how the 9mm failed you. It may be that I've just been incredibly lucky to this point and you could shed some light on why I should immediately dump all my 9mm guns and ammo and rush out to buy something that will do the job. Oh, and please don't bore us with stories like the FBI shoot-out and such, because if you don't hit them in a fatal spot, they ain't gonna die no matter what you hit them with...at least not quickly. Shit, they had a shootout near my area a year or so ago where 3 cops fired over 40 rounds at a perp that was standing beside a Chevy Suburban. Not only did they NOT hit the perp with a single round, but they MISSED the broadside Suburban he was standing in front of too!!!!! Caliber is NO substitute for shot placement, and shot placement takes practice (oops, that word just keeps on popping up, doesn't it). When it comes down to the nuts of the thing, a well-placed hit with a 25acp will trump a miss with a 50BMG, so get what you can shoot well, and then practice with it under as many conditions as you can come up with. The only round that is totally inadequate for SHTF is the one you can't hit shit with. EDIT: As I reread my post, I noticed I may have been a bit harsh on Tomato. While sarcasm was intended, harshness was not. I have personal reasons for taking offense to those that tell others that a 9mm is inadequate for self defense, because it indicates to me they are not speaking from experience, but from hearsay. When you have personally witnessed the mess a 9mm makes of a man's chest and head, you know differently. When you have had to clean your floors, wall, and ceiling of all the blood and other matter that was sprayed from the head and torso of a man you had to shoot in self defense, you get a first-hand look at just how "ineffective" the 9mm is. To that, add the fact that I have used it effectively against animals much larger than man, and while it was never intended for the purpose, it was the gun I had with me and it did the job. I try to make it a practice not to make statements or judgements that I cannot speak on from personal experience, and if I do speak outside my own experiences, I make sure that I label my comments as such. In my old age I have grown weary of "parrots"...those that just repeat what they have heard, but have no idea of why they are saying it. If I mis-judged you Tomato, then please accept my apologies. If not, then please learn to temper your own statements with facts. As I read through these post, my thoughts were going exactly towards what Taxed2Death just said. You are spot on my man. +1 |
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I'm just saying that if it was SOOOOO ineffective then the .mil would have figured something else out.) The military is profoundly uninterested in whether the ammunition they issue for a pistol (or the pistol itself) works. They feel they have bigger fish to fry. Riiiiggghtttt.... I can tell you've never been in the military, and therefore have never been issued a pistol by the military and know nothing about the history of the US military adopting the current issue pistol and cartridge. If the military was concerned about whether the pistols they issued worked, they would never have issued WWII pistols until the .45 was finally replaced. They would have replaced those pistols. If the military was concerned about whether the cartridge worked, they wouldn't have developed the irrelevent concept of"lethality" to justify a decision to adopt the 9mm so NATO pistol ammunition was standardized. Pistols may be important to you and they may be important to me, but they are decidedly not important to those who run the US military, primarily because wars are not won with pistols. 
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I'm just saying that if it was SOOOOO ineffective then the .mil would have figured something else out.) The military is profoundly uninterested in whether the ammunition they issue for a pistol (or the pistol itself) works. They feel they have bigger fish to fry. Riiiiggghtttt.... I can tell you've never been in the military, and therefore have never been issued a pistol by the military and know nothing about the history of the US military adopting the current issue pistol and cartridge. If the military was concerned about whether the pistols they issued worked, they would never have issued WWII pistols until the .45 was finally replaced. They would have replaced those pistols. If the military was concerned about whether the cartridge worked, they wouldn't have developed the irrelevent concept of"lethality" to justify a decision to adopt the 9mm so NATO pistol ammunition was standardized. Pistols may be important to you and they may be important to me, but they are decidedly not important to those who run the US military, primarily because wars are not won with pistols.
Sunshine, you can't tell shit sitting behind your keyboard. Not only was I issued an M9 as a sidearm, but I was deployed as a 91W in OIF with a light infantry turned mechanized infantry battalion, so guess what my secondary objective was? It was to tread Iraqi wounded. I have personally seen what 9mm ball does to every major region of the human body. It is effective. Contrary to the barracks lawyers, the .mil doesn't really issue you broken, worthless equipment because they hate you on a personal level and are watching for you to fail. The M9 is an adequate tool with a, like it or not, proven round. Are there better pistols, sure. Are there better rounds? well, that depends on what you are looking for out of the round. However, it does work and it does very messy, sticky, smelly things to the human body. I will counter that the .mil does care about the weapons issued to soldiers. |
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I have always listened to those that have "been there and done that" I have a good friend that is a retired mil.....Something he said to me really stuck.... " Ive seen alot of people shot with a 9mm with crappy ammo.....Never met one that was happy about it"
I think we would all love to have 10k rnds of good HP ammo. Today its not always possible. Ive put back alot of FMJ for my 9,40 and 45........and over the last couple of years started putting back Gold dots and Golden sabers in each caliber. But as has been stated before...A 9mm with FMJ on your hip is better than an AR leaning against the fence ..yards away from you. I started by loading up on the cheap stuff so that i could stack it deep. In time I hope to have a 50/50 mix. But if all i had was FMJ when the SHTF.......so be it. |
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Whatever you do, don't shoot me with them 9mm JHPs. Winchester White Box FMJ is ok cause they don't hurt as much but not JHPs So you'd be willing to take a few as an experiment? Yeah, obviously I was trying to make a point. People tend to poo-poo anything but super duper ammo and calibers but how many would want to be shot with anything? Not me, not even a .22lr. |
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I'm just saying that if it was SOOOOO ineffective then the .mil would have figured something else out.) The military is profoundly uninterested in whether the ammunition they issue for a pistol (or the pistol itself) works. They feel they have bigger fish to fry. Riiiiggghtttt.... I can tell you've never been in the military, and therefore have never been issued a pistol by the military and know nothing about the history of the US military adopting the current issue pistol and cartridge. If the military was concerned about whether the pistols they issued worked, they would never have issued WWII pistols until the .45 was finally replaced. They would have replaced those pistols. If the military was concerned about whether the cartridge worked, they wouldn't have developed the irrelevent concept of"lethality" to justify a decision to adopt the 9mm so NATO pistol ammunition was standardized. Pistols may be important to you and they may be important to me, but they are decidedly not important to those who run the US military, primarily because wars are not won with pistols.
Sunshine, you can't tell shit sitting behind your keyboard. Not only was I issued an M9 as a sidearm, but I was deployed as a 91W in OIF with a light infantry turned mechanized infantry battalion, so guess what my secondary objective was? It was to tread Iraqi wounded. I have personally seen what 9mm ball does to every major region of the human body. It is effective. Contrary to the barracks lawyers, the .mil doesn't really issue you broken, worthless equipment because they hate you on a personal level and are watching for you to fail. The M9 is an adequate tool with a, like it or not, proven round. Are there better pistols, sure. Are there better rounds? well, that depends on what you are looking for out of the round. However, it does work and it does very messy, sticky, smelly things to the human body. I will counter that the .mil does care about the weapons issued to soldiers. Your right 100% there. The .45 was replaced for many reasons, standardizing is only one. They were old as S@#$. I got one when I got to my first team THEY SUCKED. |
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the .mil doesn't really issue you broken, worthless equipment because they hate you on a personal level and are watching for you to fail. No they don't. They issue you whatever pistol is in inventory without thinking about whether the pistol is worn out or whether the cartridge is the most effective one available, because as I said (and you apparently missed) wars are not won with pistols. Military officers, like everyone else, have to prioritize and focus on those things which are important. Since pistols don't win wars, they're not important. Therefore they don't command priority and no one who's important focuses on them. |
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The .45 was replaced for many reasons, standardizing is only one. They were old as S@#$. I got one when I got to my first team THEY SUCKED. And if the military cared about pistols, they wouldn't have been issuing worn out ones. Does that sound familiar? If so, it's because I already said that. |
| I remember reading about the military adoption of the 9mm. The test were primarily after penetration. 9mm FMJ penetrates tissue very well, in some bullet weights better than .45. IIRC, the 9mm 124 grain SMG round penetrates slightly farther than the 230 grain .45 FMJ (both go through roughly 70cm of gelatin), and the 9mm 147 grain FMJ does even better. |
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Whatever you do, don't shoot me with them 9mm JHPs. Winchester White Box FMJ is ok cause they don't hurt as much but not JHPs So you'd be willing to take a few as an experiment? Yeah, obviously I was trying to make a point. People tend to poo-poo anything but super duper ammo and calibers but how many would want to be shot with anything? Not me, not even a .22lr. I knew that, I was just pulling your leg and I agree with you 100% |
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Jdonham I have a two kinds of bullet style I store for SHTF. 115 grain Goldots that I loaded to a +P pressure and 115 grain Berry's plated flat point. Both have sealed primers. Since Berry's is similar manufacture to Goldots I have choosen the flat point due to greater surface area than the round nose. Now a bullet is only good when it hits the intended target. So even a "super duper" bullet can be a dud when it misses it's mark. As long the ammo you have listed functions in your pistol and obtains a decent point of impact then you are good to go. |
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FMJ 9mm's won't cut it. THey are inadequate. I would argue that you are better prepared with 200 rounds of JHPs in 9mm than to have 500 rounds of 9mm fmjs..... My two cents. No flames intended. You asked, I answered. Sorry........ Frozenny is very correct. I'd argue that you should take those FMJs to a training class and get some solid training in the basics of shooting and the law so you'll be effective with those 200 JHPs and not a danger to yourself, innocent bystanders or your loved ones. Training doesn't have to be expensive and if you're asking a newbie question like what kind of 9mm should I have for SHTF, I'm guessing you haven't had a lot of training. A better question to ask is, "What kind of basic handgun training should I get to better prepare myself for everyday carry and SHTF both?" John |
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OP Don't get caught up in the X bullet is better than this Y bullet or this is better than that. I have been shooting and training with LE and Civilians for a long time. I can't tell you how many times I have seen guys with larger calibers, higher priced guns with the last high tech stuff attached, wearing the newest latest tacticool clothing and vests. Extended mags for their pistols, ranger plates/Magpuls for their AR mags and on and on, THAT CAN'T SHOOT. Find something that fits your hand that is 99% reliable. Train, Train, Train with it. Learn to shoot accurately. Then learn to shoot accurately with speed. Then learn how to shoot accurately with speed while moving. Your 9millie XYZ bullet will do find. ^ THIS ^ I'm .45 guy, love the 1911s, but I am not a 9mm "hater". I also have a Glock 17 and can shoot it just as well as my 1911. As BRONZ said above, it's important that you know how to shoot and place a shot. or several. If you are proficient, your 9mm will serve you well. As others have said, grab some boxes of HPs for HomeDefense purposes if you get a chance when/if ammo is back on the shelf regularly. In a perfect world when supply is back to normal, shoot your FMJs for practice, and then replace back with some boxes of HPs until you achieve a good ratio. If you do start stocking HPs, MAKE SURE you do go and shoot more than a couple mags full of them. Maybe shoot 2 to 4 boxes of them initially. Anytime you switch ammo brands or bullet types you want to MAKE SURE they function flawlessly in your weapon. You don't want to jack a mag full of new HPs into your pistol on SHTF +1 and find they FTF. In SHTF everyone is going to use what the have. Be proficient with what you have. 9mm ball is still gonna put a hurtin on someone if the shots are placed well. In SHTF they may not have such immediate medical support as they do right now, that could spell big trouble for anyone with a gunshot wound. Mortality rates will skyrocket without fast modern medical services. +3 One of my fellow trainers traded me a case of Win Ranger +P(+?) 124gr JHP 9mms (for .38 FBI loads) after discovering that they caused malfunction after malfunction in his Taurus. They work great in my 92 and Glocks. ALWAYS test burn at least a box (if you're poor) or 4 (to be sure) through your gun to make sure they will work in a critical incident. Try them in training, serious practice or whatever, but make sure you spend the bucks. It's your life we're talking about here. No place for being chintzy. And by "box" I mean the old-fashioned 50-round containers, not this new 20- or 25-round "lite" box crap. John Quoted:
9mm is utter and complete fail for your SHTF round. He's right. Send your 9mm to me. 1605 N. Willis, Champaign, IL 61821. John |
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One thing you have to remember too. Many allies dies as the result of getting hit my P-08's, P-38's and MP-40's, all of which used the 9mm round. Many European, Asian and American police forces still use the 9x19 or the weaker 9x18 round with effect. As the previous poster mentions, this is not comparing the effectiveness of the 9mm to a rifle cartridge or to a 45ACP. The basis of this thread is to find effective rounds for the 9mm. You kill your allies? That doesn't seem good for business I keed, I keed.
To add my .02, Uncle Sugar issued me 9mm ball to go to combat... Just sayin, if it was so horrible, why are the real trigger pullers using it (or in my case being issued it as a medic, I'm not claiming to be a super high speed ninja seal ranger or anything) (I know that hp's are banned by the laws of war, I'm just saying that if it was SOOOOO ineffective then the .mil would have figured something else out.) Well not to piss in your Fruit loops but they are issuing Kimber 1911 to Marine Recon last I saw. Also the SEALS I had worked with most of them not all carried 45ACP they are some of the real trigger pullers . There was also an post I read here that talked about the USMC going back to 1911 or just 45acp! Not ragging on the 9mm its taken out a lot of people. Also when I was in Iraq I got my box of U.S Government only JHP 9mm +P+ from a Recon buddy of mine! Also from LEO officers/ departments and a few other people who know how to ship ammo without it getting caught! |
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The .45 was replaced for many reasons, standardizing is only one. They were old as S@#$. I got one when I got to my first team THEY SUCKED. And if the military cared about pistols, they wouldn't have been issuing worn out ones. Does that sound familiar? If so, it's because I already said that. Sometimes the answer is much simpler than you want to make it. In the case of the military continuing to issue 1911s as long as it did, it was largely a case of economics....they already had them in quantity and they were paid for. Weapons systems, be they pistols, tanks, or anti-ICBM weapons, cost money. Depending on who is in the white house, and who is in congress, these weapons may get funded or may not get funded. It isn't always the military making the decisions, or even establishing the level of priority, sometimes it's some asshole bean-counting, gun-hating, anti-American liberal that gums up the works. Other times it may be some feable-minded, peanut-farming do-gooder that screws things up. The military is just like you and me when it comes to their equipment, they want the best of everything. Unfortunately, just like you and me, they have to decide where to push and where to give ground. I doubt you went out and bought all of your stuff at one time, so dont' expect the military to do it either. Like you, they get what they can when they can, and make due with what they have until they can afford to upgrade. Remember this too, when the military spends money, it's YOUR money they are spending, so be grateful that they make good use of what you bought them. |
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I do NOT want to start a 9mm vs .45 thread! The 9mm can be an adequate defensive round. However, it does virtually require the use of a decent expanding hollowpoint bullet. The track record of 9mm in any FMJ flavor is miserable. I personally relegate 9mm FMJ to one role only: Plinking. For real shtf useage you need something with some sort of semi-reasonable stopping power. In 9mm this means it MUST be an expanding bullet. You can quibble over types and specifics but there is near universal support for the use of a JHP bullet. To be specific I stockpile 124 hollow points. In my case it is Speer 124 Gold Dot +P. THese are pricey. I supplement these with quantities of my own hand loads using 124 Hornady XTPs. I also have some 115 JHP factory loads kicking around. I'm not particularly fussy, but I am adamant about one point: If you use a 9mm you'd better be shooting a reliably expanding bullet. FMJ 9mm's won't cut it. THey are inadequate. I would argue that you are better prepared with 200 rounds of JHPs in 9mm than to have 500 rounds of 9mm fmjs..... My two cents. No flames intended. You asked, I answered. Sorry........ this. a 9mm FMJ will cause serious hurt, no doubt, but in the time it takes somebody to bleed out from the hole the 9mm put all the way through them, they could kill you or your family. you want something that will cause catastrophic bodily system failure and stops them right now. JHP is the answer regardless of the caliber. Agreed!!! But who the hell would load a weapon for self defense with ball ammo?? Handgun calibers that is!! Even .45acp ball has it's draw backs. |
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Depends on two factors:
A) The Shooter. B) The SHTF expected. Keeping those in mind you then need to select the right type of pistol round. This means the right pressure, the right weight, and the right design. Not all ammunition even of the same weight and pressure are created equal. Some companies produce JHP that maintains the mushroom better than others that can quickly break apart (not good for penetration) or fail to expand at all not good lethality since you don't want your round to sail right by an artery? Some barrel lengths may require higher pressure rounds. Longer barrel lengths you'll want lower pressure rounds than for shorter barrel lengths where you'll want high pressure rounds all to get the ideal velocity for the ideal KE. |
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I do NOT want to start a 9mm vs .45 thread! The 9mm can be an adequate defensive round. However, it does virtually require the use of a decent expanding hollowpoint bullet. The track record of 9mm in any FMJ flavor is miserable. I personally relegate 9mm FMJ to one role only: Plinking. For real shtf useage you need something with some sort of semi-reasonable stopping power. In 9mm this means it MUST be an expanding bullet. You can quibble over types and specifics but there is near universal support for the use of a JHP bullet. To be specific I stockpile 124 hollow points. In my case it is Speer 124 Gold Dot +P. THese are pricey. I supplement these with quantities of my own hand loads using 124 Hornady XTPs. I also have some 115 JHP factory loads kicking around. I'm not particularly fussy, but I am adamant about one point: If you use a 9mm you'd better be shooting a reliably expanding bullet. FMJ 9mm's won't cut it. THey are inadequate. I would argue that you are better prepared with 200 rounds of JHPs in 9mm than to have 500 rounds of 9mm fmjs..... My two cents. No flames intended. You asked, I answered. Sorry........ this. a 9mm FMJ will cause serious hurt, no doubt, but in the time it takes somebody to bleed out from the hole the 9mm put all the way through them, they could kill you or your family. you want something that will cause catastrophic bodily system failure and stops them right now. JHP is the answer regardless of the caliber. Agreed!!! But who the hell would load a weapon for self defense with ball ammo?? Handgun calibers that is!! Even .45acp ball has it's draw backs. While I keep my 9mms loaded with high-performance HPs for defense just like most here do, remember this.....HPs will NOT make up for lack of shot placement, but shot placement WILL make up for lack of HPs. Practice and training are MUCH more important than HP vs FMJ. Learn to use your weapon with whatever load is in it at the time you need it. I've defended myself with the 9mm against both man and beast...literally...and it was WHERE I shot and not WHAT I shot that allowed me to be here still. The 124gr HP stopped the 160lb man, but the 115gr FMJ stopped the 1000lb angry cow. Both worked, and if you swapped the loads, both STILL would have worked. Practice, practice, pracitice...that's what really matters if you want to be effective. Same goes for your other weapons too by the way. |
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Sometimes the answer is much simpler than you want to make it. In the case of the military continuing to issue 1911s as long as it did, it was largely a case of economics....they already had them in quantity and they were paid for. If the military cared about pistols they would NOT have issued worn out ones. They had the parts and the manpower to rebuild (or replace, by building new weapons out of existing parts, after they issued all those in good condition. No one gave those orders. Why? Because no one with the authority to do so cared enough to look into the situation and give them. Why? Because pistols and pistol ammunition is not on the priority list of ANYONE who is important. You may rationalize all you want and you are free to believe what ever you wish, but that doesn't make it true.
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I been loading for years a 90 grain Hornady XTP in 9mm with AA #7 powder in a max load,think about 9 grains and it is hot and run it in my two door carbines for my wife Ruger Police Carbines and at 50 yards is near a one holer for two rapid shots.Have not run it in the matching Ruger P85 old heavy pistols as companion guns but expect the same results. Nine milimeter is a pain to load but the round that works for me above has caused major grief for coyotes in the yard that get close enough at time to toss firewood at them.If nine seems not enough a .223 M4 sits alongside each of them also. Why is it a pain? Serious question, not trolling. |
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I been loading for years a 90 grain Hornady XTP in 9mm with AA #7 powder in a max load,think about 9 grains and it is hot and run it in my two door carbines for my wife Ruger Police Carbines and at 50 yards is near a one holer for two rapid shots.Have not run it in the matching Ruger P85 old heavy pistols as companion guns but expect the same results. Nine milimeter is a pain to load but the round that works for me above has caused major grief for coyotes in the yard that get close enough at time to toss firewood at them.If nine seems not enough a .223 M4 sits alongside each of them also. Why is it a pain? Serious question, not trolling. I'm not sure why people say this. I've loaded hundreds of 9mm and never had an issue with it. |
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I been loading for years a 90 grain Hornady XTP in 9mm with AA #7 powder in a max load,think about 9 grains and it is hot and run it in my two door carbines for my wife Ruger Police Carbines and at 50 yards is near a one holer for two rapid shots.Have not run it in the matching Ruger P85 old heavy pistols as companion guns but expect the same results. Nine milimeter is a pain to load but the round that works for me above has caused major grief for coyotes in the yard that get close enough at time to toss firewood at them.If nine seems not enough a .223 M4 sits alongside each of them also. Why is it a pain? Serious question, not trolling. I'm not sure why people say this. I've loaded hundreds thousands of 9mm and never had an issue with it. |