Posted: 10/26/2009 2:28:23 PM EDT
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This is my post from today over on my blog! I thought that it was worth bringing up over here as well!
Prepper This leads me into what I want to discuss today. Debt Slavery or more appropriately how to avoid it from now on! I want to share a proposed budget with you and see if you can poke some holes in it. Just remember that this is to cover all the basics and have a little slush fund as well. I will give you all the numbers based on a monthly breakdown rather than annual, I find this easier to imagine! Here goes: Property Taxes - $60.00 (10 acres/mobile) Home Insurance - $40.00 (mobile home) Auto Insurance - $120.00 (2 vehicles, liability) Medical Insurance - $300.00 (major medical, 2 people) Electric Bill - $150.00 (based on 12 month average) Cell phone - $75.00 (only phone) Internet Access - $75.00 Gasoline/auto - $200.00 ( 2 vehicles) Groceries - $300.00 (costs offset with homestead production) Cable TV - $50.00 10% +/- Savings - $200.00 $1570.00 net income required for expenses Total Income before tax = $1850.00 Income tax 15% - $277.50 Total income after tax = $1572.50 (enough to pay the expenses) I am going to make a couple of assumptions - #1 - Home paid off or mortgage free if that sounds better. #2 - Consumer debt eliminated, including car payments. I see a minimum annual salary requirement of $22,200. Not chump change but much less than would normally be required in today's society out here on the left coast! Alright, what do you think, did I cover everything? What am I missing? Yes, I do see that there are several optional items that could be done away with, such as the cell phone and cable TV. Just remember this isn't a survival expense list but one to allow for an early retirement. I see this is more of a goal list, something to be aiming for. With this reduced amount as a "HAVE TO HAVE" each month, a person could be free to look for more enjoyable ways to make money. So many people are stuck in occupations that they really would rather leave behind but the required monthly paycheck is controlling their life. Some one out there is already living on this amount of money or maybe even a lot less and trying to support a family, to boot. Everyone's circumstances are different and each local area has its own costs of living. It will also be of concern as to how to get a piece of land and home that are paid for free and clear of any debt. I am aware of these concerns as I am still on the path to getting all my bases covered in this regard too. I do know this doesn't happen overnight. However, I also know that it is possible! I honestly believe that the system most of us are living under now is setup to keep us trapped into living lives of quiet desperation putting off what we really would like to be doing with our time, to a fantasy of the future. Stand up and shake off those chains around your neck, now and start living the life you really want to live! Do you really want that house that has 5 bedrooms and 3 living rooms now that your children are raised or better yet when you only have the one child to begin with? How about that lake view you thought you just had to have? Is it still worth the extra $150K, you happily paid when you bought the home? Only you can answer these questions! I propose to you that in large part you don't even want the things that the boob tube told you that you had to have. Folks we are all being fooled by very slick sales people into playing along with the crowd. "Just do it", we're told by the commercial add departments of 1000's of companies peddling us hyped up products. Mostly these products have a value only built in by a society of envy. If we don't have this particular product than we just don't measure up, SCAM! - I call it like I see it. It's even gotten so bad that, I see what they are doing and I still find myself either buying or wanting to buy their crap! Listen, I'm about to say something very controversial - I'll be looking over my shoulder for the rest of the day after this! The gun manufactures are doing it to us too! WAIT! I know what your thinking, "This 8th AR15 I just bought has the newest lightweight barrel and has the NEWER aluminum free floating hand guard. It's color coordinated with my battle harness and I'm the first one in my shooting group to have one..." Well, I have MORE than my fair share of guns that have been purchased for these exact type of reasons! I'm NOT preaching at you about which I do not know!!! Think about this for a minute... Is there a better way to control people than through there money or fear of losing everything for lack of money? I can't say which but this is all going on either at the bequest of our well meaning government or certainly with their blessing. We are their customers and they are oh so happy to require us to continue using their product! In this case, the product is taxes. Oh and I say well meaning not only tongue in cheek but actually biting my tongue. I know this isn't the proper forum to do my venting about the government and their antics! As long as we keep paying the taxes and don't get off the wheel they have control over us, they have no need to come collect our guns. We're all afraid to get out of line because we might have to take an unpaid day off from work to lynch the thieving bastards! Do you think that this is all going on without their being aware of the situation we find ourselves in financially. We miss a day of work and we pay for it by getting behind on the cable bill or insert your own distraction payment here. I know I'm ranting today but I'm passionate about my freedom and have spent to many days distracted by the shiny objects and the "I wants". Lots of lost time, time that should have been spent more profitably with my family and friends! Enjoying the fruits of my labor, whether by actual fruits grown on my own land or just reaping the fruit of freedom that will only be achieved through sacrificing the consumer grade BS that is so tantalizing to many of us! In the coming days I want you to search your conscience and decide what your priorities are. Don't confuse my words as demanding you must believe what I do or do the same things. You are your own person and you may be very happy with the life your leading! I'm truly happy if you have found the right lifestyle for you and your family, you're way ahead of the majority of us! I WILL continue to challenge you to do more and more to achieve the freedom we all claim to love and that I crave. This is achievable! This isn't a race with only one or just a few winners. So many things in this life are available to all of us but if we don't choose them we will never get to enjoy them. We'll talk more about this soon! Prepper |
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Im on the same page as you. You could save more money if you ditch cable (I have and dont miss it), get a pre paid cell, and get the cheapest net you can($29). Works for me.
ETA: Can you pare down your power bill any? One thing that works for me to see just how much things cost is to look at them annualized, when I see my cell phone is almost $1K/yr I look to cut it in half. The same goes for cable, net, power, water. Ive actually been getting quite crazy with trying to see what kind of difference I can make in my overhead not unlike yourself. |
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Solar panels are expensive, but they pay for themselves by reducing your electrical bill over time. Get a good enough set and the electric company will be paying YOU for what you add to the grid. Plus when the power goes out, you still have electricity when everyone else doesn't, WITHOUT the noise of a generator to alert the neighbors or the reliance on gas/diesel/propane to fuel it with.
Solar panels are an excellent investment. Our hunting cabin runs everything but the A/C off a single panel (lights, television, etc.). We're planning to add a couple to the house whenever we get the cash for them. |
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$70 phone $60 internet/cable $95 renters and auto insurance (one car) $200 Gas $100 Electric $485 rent $250 food Total $1260 a month Thats my bills:) When I get a house I wanna et solar panels and a well, that knocks out electricity and water. I wanna grow my own food, that cuts out food costs. I wanna pay off my home in ten years, (current projected home costs for near future purchase $650) I wanna get down to paying only for phone, insurance, gas and tax's. One of my goals is to become as self reliant as possible. |
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My problem with the post is not with the numbers. It is with the whole premise......."They" are out to get you, THEY are controllling you, THEY are tricking you.
They my foot. There is no vast conspiracy. People willingly and of THEIR OWN DECISION sign themselves up for lives of debt. If you want to know who "THEY" is that has imprisoned you in your prison cell of debt, you have but to look in the mirror. I don't buy all this "I didn't know, they fooled me, etc". Any self sufficient adult should be smart enough to read before they sign something. If they get burned, well, stupid, read before you sign something else. My .02 Doc |
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Budget
Monthly: *Entertainment/Wants $25-Internet (Verizon DSL) *requires houseline* $60-Cable TV $30-Phone (houseline) $25 cigs (should quit) *Utilities/Tax/Auto $65-auto insurance $50-$75-gas (car) $65-natural gas (on payment plan 12 mo) $50-Electric (more like $40) $100- property tax $150-food Approx-$650-700 (wiggle room) This is roughly what I pay monthly. The house is paid off and that helps ALOT. Mortgage was $600/mo. I smoke bulk tobacco because $5+ a pack is insane. Food is easy for me. I eat very simple foods and cook in bulk. My local store has buy one get one often, so I'm flexible with my diet. Property Tax sucks, not much more to add regarding that. I'd ditch cable TV if my Fiance would allow it. I don't have a far commute (<5miles daily) and I drive a Civic most days. I would like to get a wood burner to use as supplemental heating. I recently was laid off, but I have savings (several tiers) and I am kind of self employed with one of my hobbies (artist). I'm taking my time looking for work and being selective (just because I can be). I did my X-mas shopping the day after I was told about potential layoffs...Its an important event for me and my family. No debt here...I HATE CC's!!! I think the problem is that the whole concept of Credit is VASTLY misunderstood by most younger people. I also think there should be more transparency in credit contracts. Might as well make laws enforcing reasonable/fixed/fair rates too. It has gotten out of hand. (one of the very few times I'll ever suggest anything like that.) |
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Quoted:
My problem with the post is not with the numbers. It is with the whole premise......."They" are out to get you, THEY are controlling you, THEY are tricking you. They my foot. There is no vast conspiracy. People willingly and of THEIR OWN DECISION sign themselves up for lives of debt. If you want to know who "THEY" is that has imprisoned you in your prison cell of debt, you have but to look in the mirror. I don't buy all this "I didn't know, they fooled me, etc". Any self sufficient adult should be smart enough to read before they sign something. If they get burned, well, stupid, read before you sign something else. My .02 Doc BRAVO DocGP!! I agree with you but hear me out... "They" is right, there is a they! And they do want you to be in debt, the they is .gov in its many forms. It isn't sinister but just about controlling people, which is where they get their power. I don't for one second believe they care if some dingbat buys an Xbox or a new boat. As long as you are in debt and sufficiently attached to your desk, you won't stand up and buck the system, their system. You will feel compelled to stay on the treadmill spitting out tax dollars, for the systems they control. I wholeheartedly, agree with what you are saying, maybe I didn't convey my point appropriately... It is us that has to change or me or who ever has been making the wrong decisions about how to prioritize their lives and spending. My premise is that we can achieve a HIGH level of freedom if that is truly what we want but make no mistake, THEY will try to keep you under their thumb. Whether its with the use of misinformation about the wackos that live off grid or mischaracterisation of what this movement or that is really about. Maybe they continue to bail out the banks with OUR tax dollars and stick us with the bill? THEY do this with more money than it would have taken to just pay those debts off? Bad business or is it in their interest to keep us owing and working for essentially them? I say us owing as a collective term not me or you necessarily. I can't say for sure but we are definitely going to have to change our individual thinking and see things for what they are and choose to do something all of our own. Ask the important questions - Do I really want this? Is this going to make me more free or less or maybe that doesn't matter... Just come to the conclusion through your own thought not by the easy way of letting the TV dictate to you whats important! I for one am almost completely out of debt, just a mortgage, and don't use credit anymore! I am merely trying to motivate my brothers to stop and think. Sounds like you are already awake but I read posts on this forum and many other places that show me that not everyone has gotten it yet. Maybe they never will and maybe its not important to them. Makes no difference to me but I do want folks to realize they have a choice... Rant off ~ Prepper |
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Quoted:
My problem with the post is not with the numbers. It is with the whole premise......."They" are out to get you, THEY are controllling you, THEY are tricking you. They my foot. There is no vast conspiracy. People willingly and of THEIR OWN DECISION sign themselves up for lives of debt. If you want to know who "THEY" is that has imprisoned you in your prison cell of debt, you have but to look in the mirror. I don't buy all this "I didn't know, they fooled me, etc". Any self sufficient adult should be smart enough to read before they sign something. If they get burned, well, stupid, read before you sign something else. My .02 Doc Doc ,that is a huge +1 I can't believe the amount spent on cell phone bills, electricity & interest on crap. Self inflicted imprisonment by more wants than needs! I wish I had a dime for every time someone says they didn't bother to read what they signed and blame everyone but themselves. Red |
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Quoted:
Solar panels are expensive, but they pay for themselves by reducing your electrical bill over time. Get a good enough set and the electric company will be paying YOU for what you add to the grid. Plus when the power goes out, you still have electricity when everyone else doesn't, WITHOUT the noise of a generator to alert the neighbors or the reliance on gas/diesel/propane to fuel it with. Solar panels are an excellent investment. Our hunting cabin runs everything but the A/C off a single panel (lights, television, etc.). We're planning to add a couple to the house whenever we get the cash for them. Show me a cost basis where solar panels, for a conventional house, pay for themselves (and the required equipment) before the equipment fails, in the absence of an outside subsidy... Standard practice is to budget two quality inverters over the lifetime of the panels (25 years). (Don't forget to factor in mounts, wire, combiner boxes, switchgear, inspections, permits, and batteries, all of which are required for a grid interactive battery backed up system; Most utilities will require a minimum set of standards for panel installation to net meter). For the record, I have solar panels, lots of them. But I couldn't make an investment cases for them on monetary terms alone. |
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Quoted:
$70 phone $60 internet/cable $95 renters and auto insurance (one car) $200 Gas $100 Electric $485 rent $250 food Total $1260 a month Thats my bills:) When I get a house I wanna et solar panels and a well, that knocks out electricity and water. I wanna grow my own food, that cuts out food costs. I wanna pay off my home in ten years, (current projected home costs for near future purchase $650) I wanna get down to paying only for phone, insurance, gas and tax's. One of my goals is to become as self reliant as possible. But it is going to add a fair amount of costs also. Battery maintance and replacement every few years, an inverter, all the additional wiring expence. |
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"I see a minimum annual salary requirement of $22,200. Not chump change but much less than would normally be required in today's society out here on the left coast!"
You see a "slush fund " in there somewhere? I don't call that living. I think you should set goals that will enable you to achieve your dreams and not just seek the bare minimum to get by. I don't know how to respond without sounding like a condescending prick, but: I enjoy my summer house on the shore. I send my kids to the best schools I can afford. I like new cars and classic ones also. I eat at fine restaurants. I buy new clothes. I take vacations around the globe. I have guns with plenty of ammo whenever I feel like shooting. I fall prey to conspicuous consumerism all to often. something I'm working on. This is not your lifestyle, it is mine. I'm not wealthy by any measure, but I work hard and plan for the future. What you propose is not a lifestyle, but rather some formula for simple survival. That's not living! Under your plan you will not be able to do any of the things on my list. You don't care for my list, Ok. Then take any one item from mine or make up your own. Either way you won't be able to do any of it. Here's one definitely on your list- You like guns, right? Where's the money for ammo? Do I have debt, you bet, is it going to choke me.... NO, because I stay within my means. I'm not worried about getting over my head and afraid "The Man" is coming for my stuff. I hear the same rhetoric from all the "Off The Grid" types. It's easy when they start out with money and then scale back. Not so much when you start from scratch. You see them all the time, it's the neighborhood blight, a squalor of house you'd like to see torn down. Not a pleasant way to live by any standard. I agree that our society is a commercial consumption disaster, and we all need to change. But you can't get by on $22k per year. I wish you lots of luck if you try following your blueprint. |
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I have to agree with BigZ. During school and a couple years after (10-15 years ago), I lived on about 19k a year. I ate ramen, had a roommate in a crappy house and a crappy neighborhood. I rode a ragged out motorcycle that I'd been riding all through school, simply because I couldn't afford a car. I was able to pay for everything and even managed to save a couple bucks here and there to go watch a movie or something. I depended on my tax refund and if I didn't get paid on one pay period (happened a couple times), I was screwed. Living paycheck to paycheck sucks. When the bike broke, or I had to replace a chain, tires, or oil, it was actually pretty tough to get the money to do that. Living like that motivated me to learn new skills so I could better myself and have some breathing room.
Will you be able to survive on 22k? Sure, it can be done for less actually. But it can be tough and not something I'd recommend if you've never had to do it. You need to go out and socialize occasionally and yeah, money does help. |
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Quoted:
"I see a minimum annual salary requirement of $22,200. Not chump change but much less than would normally be required in today's society out here on the left coast!" You see a "slush fund " in there somewhere? I don't call that living. I think you should set goals that will enable you to achieve your dreams and not just seek the bare minimum to get by. I don't know how to respond without sounding like a condescending prick, but: I enjoy my summer house on the shore. I send my kids to the best schools I can afford. I like new cars and classic ones also. I eat at fine restaurants. I buy new clothes. I take vacations around the globe. I have guns with plenty of ammo whenever I feel like shooting. I fall prey to conspicuous consumerism all to often. something I'm working on. This is not your lifestyle, it is mine. I'm not wealthy by any measure, but I work hard and plan for the future. What you propose is not a lifestyle, but rather some formula for simple survival. That's not living! Under your plan you will not be able to do any of the things on my list. You don't care for my list, Ok. Then take any one item from mine or make up your own. Either way you won't be able to do any of it. Here's one definitely on your list- You like guns, right? Where's the money for ammo? Do I have debt, you bet, is it going to choke me.... NO, because I stay within my means. I'm not worried about getting over my head and afraid "The Man" is coming for my stuff. I hear the same rhetoric from all the "Off The Grid" types. It's easy when they start out with money and then scale back. Not so much when you start from scratch. You see them all the time, it's the neighborhood blight, a squalor of house you'd like to see torn down. Not a pleasant way to live by any standard. I agree that our society is a commercial consumption disaster, and we all need to change. But you can't get by on $22k per year. I wish you lots of luck if you try following your blueprint. Right on BigZ, I think I did make it clear in my post that what I propose isn't for everybody, just like you said in your response too... If you have the ability to do all the things you want and make plans for the future and your cool with that - YOU WIN, you have what I am telling others they can have too! Thats a lifestyle that is controlled by them and not any system that would keep them doing something that they would rather give up on. We all make choices and can choose to put ourselves into the position to not be able to quit that job or stay in a town or house we no longer choose to be in. I advocate choosing something better. I happen to believe that even what I have proposed on my bare minimum expense example is better than the life many people are living... Working at a job they hate to get enough to pay the bills, that they chose to incur, and maybe have a few weeks off each year to feel bad about not having enough cash to take the family on vacation... What you describe about your life is NOT what I was talking about, you love your life and thats the goal! Buy as much conspicous consumer goods as you choose, knowing its your choice to make and be happy about it! My list of expenses is an illustration of what I consider to be CHEAP living. Not necessarily the ideal but one that would allow this - "With this reduced amount as a "HAVE TO HAVE" each month, a person could be free to look for more enjoyable ways to make money. So many people are stuck in occupations that they really would rather leave behind but the required monthly paycheck is controlling their life." Do you see what I actually said? This is a budget that would allow a person to choose how they spend their time - making money... or maybe not making money it would be their choice! I for one am a business man and will be making money but I want to have the financial means to try this or that without having to worry about a large nut needing to be covered each month, and I love the idea of the homestead with as many self sufficient features as possible. I think that if we took a poll of folks on this forum I would have a lot of company out there on the homestead too! I do love my guns and do even shoot them from time to time and it doesn't really cost me that much and I can do it right off my front porch if I choose to do that, even on this reduced budget. However, if I had to choose between my gun budget and living on the homestead cheaply - I going to the homestead, no contest... That's just me! I wish you the best and it does sound like you're enjoying life and your family too - keep it up! Prepper |
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Monthly:
$14 - Internet $0 - Cable TV $27- Phone, landline $18 - Phone, 2 cell $54- auto insurance (2 cars) $77 - homeowners ins. $45 - gasoline $72 - natural gas (on payment plan 12 mo) $57 - electric $154 - property tax $600 - food, meds, clothes, $50 - misc. $72 - health ins. $185 - car payment $1425 monthly total My goal is to get it to less than 1000 |
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This thread probably won't get enough responses in the SF. You should post one in GD as well.
Nevermind see you got it covered. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=946990 |
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I did not see any money set aside for repairs to the house/car or anything.Do you have an emergency fund in case something breaks or happens? Do you have 6 months living expenses already saved in case you lose your job?Just a couple of things to think about. Great catch, I didn't put a line item for these... Hmm, I do know all to well about maintenance and we do spent plenty to keep it all up and running! I will make the appropriate changes! See everyone, this is what I was looking for, kind of a sub point to my OP was to get constructive feed back and thoughts we could all use! Not just petty bickering as to if I was trying to make everyone live on the Homestead with me in a Redneck mansion! Prepper |
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Youre also missing holiday expenses, birthday's, anniversay's, etc. Averaged over the year, we have at least one major or semi major present holiday per month. This should add at least $50-100 to that budget. You've also left off capital improvements. I see someone has already pointed out repair costs, but you know that capital improvements are a particularly big part of the homestead life (new tractor, new chicken house, new livestock, new reloading equipment, new garden, new barn/shed/utility building, new defensive features, etc.). Unless you already have a very well established farm, these costs could also be significant as there's always something more to do.
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Quoted:
Youre also missing holiday expenses, birthday's, anniversay's, etc. Averaged over the year, we have at least one major or semi major present holiday per month. This should add at least $50-100 to that budget. You've also left off capital improvements. I see someone has already pointed out repair costs, but you know that capital improvements are a particularly big part of the homestead life (new tractor, new chicken house, new livestock, new reloading equipment, new garden, new barn/shed/utility building, new defensive features, etc.). Unless you already have a very well established farm, these costs could also be significant as there's always something more to do. Yeah, I blew it with the holidays and repairs and stuff... I guess my mind was on the standard recurring expenses but better to catch it now and make adjustments than be very disappointed later... Thanks for the input! I'm seeing a few places where I need to add and I'm also encouraged by other folks thinking I'm being generous on a few things as well! I tend to round up on my estimates but if I don't even have a line item than gotta fix that for sure! Prepper |
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Laudable goal, but remember that health insurance expenses rise faster than inflation. If the insurance you mention is through an employer you're vulnerable to them passing on the price increases, raising the deductibles, etc. If you purchase your own insurance, annual rate increases are still well above inflation- partly because you get older every year. You may live an active lifestyle and eat healthy, but what if you injure yourself working the homestead? Just something to consider when planning assumptions for the future.
Also, what about a savings item for replacing your car eventually? If you hate consumer debt I'm sure you'll want to save a bit every month toward the cost of even a cheap used car and pay cash for it. $200/month to me sounds more like gas, oil, and the occasional brake job/new tires, etc. |
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Am I the only one that pays lump for his car insurance? I insure 4 cars––two full coverage, increased well above normal maximums per occurrence. I used to strive (have goals) for luxury. I realized that stuff is just stuff. Time is more important. What do you do with your time? I don't do enough. That's my goal.
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I didn't read this whole thread but the constitution still aloows for debt slavery. Well yes it does infer the right to pursue unhappiness as well to pursue happiness. It's your life. I agree fully. Also, it's easy to say that someone else's frugal lifestyle isn't a life at all but that's vapid. I like this forum because I learn ways to manage what I have to make it go farther. I'm semi-green because I'm cheap. I don't see the same value in a new car as others. I've been around a little. I've seen Hawaiian Islands, western national parks and forests, eastern forests and parks, northern this or that's, southern things. I only drive 9 to 40 yr old cars. I just have to drive more of them because they require more maintenance. I pay cash for car insurance because I hate payments. I don't sell my soul to unions for an income because my personal beliefs are above that (fair market leanings). I DON'T judge those that are union. It's just not for me. Gov workers are a different story but my wife happens to be one. Poor her. I don't compete with my neighbor, with his yard, car or job. They don't understand what blows my hair back anyway. I see my contemporaries with new cars (begging dealers and wives to "fix" their payment to be able to afford them) and others being jealous when they aren't the one getting the new car. To me, if you're not driving a Ford GT (it's not a mUstang, it's a $150K used car), why bother with a car payment? Anything less just doesn't appeal to me much, but I'd rather have a house. I park next to people that make more than I do, but have more credit pressure and less money at the end of the week than I. I park next to people that make less and choose to indebt themselves to fake a lifestyle for that new car, cell phone, iPod, Bluetooth GPS. I know millionaires that don't drive anything better than the average car in my work parking lot. Who do my coworkers think they're kidding? Oh yeah, I know, themselves. |
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Quoted:
Am I the only one that pays lump for his car insurance? I insure 4 cars––two full coverage, increased well above normal maximums per occurrence. I used to strive (have goals) for luxury. I realized that stuff is just stuff. Time is more important. What do you do with your time? I don't do enough. That's my goal. Quoted:
I didn't read this whole thread but the constitution still aloows for debt slavery. Well yes it does infer the right to pursue unhappiness as well to pursue happiness. It's your life. I agree fully. Also, it's easy to say that someone else's frugal lifestyle isn't a life at all but that's vapid. I like this forum because I learn ways to manage what I have to make it go farther. I'm semi-green because I'm cheap. I don't see the same value in a new car as others. I've been around a little. I've seen Hawaiian Islands, western national parks and forests, eastern forests and parks, northern this or that's, southern things. I only drive 9 to 40 yr old cars. I just have to drive more of them because they require more maintenance. I pay cash for car insurance because I hate payments. I don't sell my soul to unions for an income because my personal beliefs are above that (fair market leanings). I DON'T judge those that are union. It's just not for me. Gov workers are a different story but my wife happens to be one. Poor her. I don't compete with my neighbor, with his yard, car or job. They don't understand what blows my hair back anyway. I see my contemporaries with new cars (begging dealers and wives to "fix" their payment to be able to afford them) and others being jealous when they aren't the one getting the new car. To me, if you're not driving a Ford GT (it's not a mUstang, it's a $150K used car), why bother with a car payment? Anything less just doesn't appeal to me much, but I'd rather have a house. I park next to people that make more than I do, but have more credit pressure and less money at the end of the week than I. I park next to people that make less and choose to indebt themselves to fake a lifestyle for that new car, cell phone, iPod, Bluetooth GPS. I know millionaires that don't drive anything better than the average car in my work parking lot. Who do my coworkers think they're kidding? Oh yeah, I know, themselves. Kind of the sentiment I was after! I don't begrudge anyone for doing just as they please but I really think my/our way is better. If we judged success by what was still available after the bills were paid at the end of the month, we would be well ahead of our contemporaries, I would suppose at least in MANY cases. Prepper |