Posted: 7/20/2009 11:09:15 PM EDT
| I am a firm believer in powerful lights on weapons. I would prefer to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have it. I am not one to indiscriminately flash it around to telegraph my position, but I don't want to accidently ventilate any friendlies. I also believe that it may give you some advantage by blinding a potential threat and/or putting them to flight. What do y'all think? |
My main rifle and pistol both have lights on them. The rifle has a red lense filter on it that can be flipped open to use the white light. The red light is great for walking around and not giving your location from a distance (obviously something 25-30 yards away is going to see it), I too would rather have it and not need it than to be going "damn... wish I had put a light on this rifle when I had the chance!" That Surefire Universal Weaponlight 951 series set me back a few bucks, but it was worth it in the end... buy once cry once. 
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An absolute must. Makes it far less likely you'll shoot a friendly, can be used to blind an enemy. Makes it MUCH easier to use your sights/red dot.
But turn on, shoot, off, MOVE. Don't use, shoot, leave on, or stay in that spot. There's a reason most cops use them now. |
| Once upon a time i (LEO) was involved in a gang shooting, then barricaded suspects call. I found myself on a perimeter around the house, with an 870 in my hands watching the back door. The bad part was, it was about 0100 and no mounted light. I had a Surefire 6P in my off hand, gripped under the forend of the shotty, but i realized that i was NOT going to be very effective at engaging multiple targets accurately. Everything was solved peacably, but since that day every long gun i own that is a working gun (not a fun gun or collectors item) wears some manner of light. As i write this my M4 is sitting next to me with a G3 on it. |
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OK, Tj gets to give his speech again.
Before I do, I have both one long-gun and one handgun with a weapons light. Though I would never count on the blinding aspect, the practicality of it for given situations is undeniable. Now back to the speech, about the very last thing in the world you want in your hand investigating a bump in the night when the law shows up is a gun, especially one that because it has a light you will be pointing it right at them. I'm sending letters to a young man in jail now that will be years if ever before he gets CCW back for doing just this. He's actually lucky, he wasn't shot. Just remember, we pay these guys to chase bad guys so we shouldn't surprised if they are right behind them or that bump in the night is actually them looking for one. We don't pay them for them to allow us to point loaded guns at them nor do they have anyway of telling good guy from bad guy. Many an undercover cop has been shot because of this. It all sounds so cowboy draw down at high noon, but that's life. What that does is put us in a position that before we can actually use a weapon mounted light, we must have already identified our target as a threat. Inside your home that's pretty easy. Either they are suppose to be there or not. Outside your home, the minute you put a gun in your hand from a legal standpoint, you become a free target not only for police but badguys, and even a passerby. If you follow this than in your home, reaction to an identified threat, or in defense/pursuit, the weapon mounted light gives one a distinct advantage. In an investigation outside your home, it has major disadvantages. This disadvantage and the odds that we will encounter "bump in the night" over identified threat, makes a separate hand held light a far higher priority over a weapon mounted light. That doesn't negate the need for a weapons light but just establishes a priority. I have personally centered on a common battery stratagem, the CR 123. Once you get over your fun night fire practice stage, these batteries have a distinct advantage in storage life both out of the light and in the light. I think most of will find other than that practice and if we follow the safety guidelines of not going outside pointing weapons then how often we use the weapon mounted light is extremely rare and hopefully never. That battery life is pretty important. What I do in this regard, is a regularly scheduled or heck something fun to do when bored, check the weapon light as well as my light aiming technique. The last thing you want is going to some battle with a dead weight on the end of your gun, flip the switch, then go "Oh shit". Now you can take this post for what its worth and I'll go back to finishing my letter to the young man who thought it wasn't a good idea. He should get out of jail soon, but I'm afraid his thousands of dollar just to get the sentence reduced, he'll never get back. Tj |
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Try an exercise at home.... Go to your bedroom and have your wife trip the main breaker in your house. Then, have your wife walk up the stairs with a light and a mock gun and see how well you are able to defend yourself in a mock exercise.
Now, imagine this is in the middle of the night and you were not planning for the event... I sleep with a Surefire Z2 next to a Glock 21 with night sights and a Surefire X300 mounted on the rail. The night sights allow me to find the glock in absolute dark (keep the sights so you can see them). You can't fight what you can not see and while I can not afford to keep top-notch weapon lights in my BOB I do have a couple older M3 and M3LED lights that I keep in my BOBs as backups along with our Surefire handhelds. I also have M962 Surefires on my primary carbines. I don't want to fight in the dark without night vision... 
Shotgun light (check) - M3LED (older but better then nothing) M4 Carbine light (check) - M962xm07 on Larue Mount Handgun light (check) - Surefire x300 Note, I have backups and extras too  - collection of older M3 and M4leds as well as extra Surefire 952 and 962 lights.
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Quoted:
I am a firm believer in powerful lights on weapons. I would prefer to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have it. I am not one to indiscriminately flash it around to telegraph my position, but I don't want to accidently ventilate any friendlies. I also believe that it may give you some advantage by blinding a potential threat and/or putting them to flight. What do y'all think? +1 on TJ's post I read a Katrina AAR which said lights on guns drew fire. That may be. A light helps you identify friend from foe when you need it. Until then, stay dark and use your NVG's if you have them. Most of my primary pistols and rifles have lights. All of my department issue guns have lights too. |
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+1, except when shtf, then the only time I will be calling the police is to tell them to not bother coming out. The thugs are already dead.
StagPower Quoted:
OK, Tj gets to give his speech again. Before I do, I have both one long-gun and one handgun with a weapons light. Though I would never count on the blinding aspect, the practicality of it for given situations is undeniable. Now back to the speech, about the very last thing in the world you want in your hand investigating a bump in the night when the law shows up is a gun, especially one that because it has a light you will be pointing it right at them. I'm sending letters to a young man in jail now that will be years if ever before he gets CCW back for doing just this. He's actually lucky, he wasn't shot. Just remember, we pay these guys to chase bad guys so we shouldn't surprised if they are right behind them or that bump in the night is actually them looking for one. We don't pay them for them to allow us to point loaded guns at them nor do they have anyway of telling good guy from bad guy. Many an undercover cop has been shot because of this. It all sounds so cowboy draw down at high noon, but that's life. What that does is put us in a position that before we can actually use a weapon mounted light, we must have already identified our target as a threat. Inside your home that's pretty easy. Either they are suppose to be there or not. Outside your home, the minute you put a gun in your hand from a legal standpoint, you become a free target not only for police but badguys, and even a passerby. If you follow this than in your home, reaction to an identified threat, or in defense/pursuit, the weapon mounted light gives one a distinct advantage. In an investigation outside your home, it has major disadvantages. This disadvantage and the odds that we will encounter "bump in the night" over identified threat, makes a separate hand held light a far higher priority over a weapon mounted light. That doesn't negate the need for a weapons light but just establishes a priority. I have personally centered on a common battery stratagem, the CR 123. Once you get over your fun night fire practice stage, these batteries have a distinct advantage in storage life both out of the light and in the light. I think most of will find other than that practice and if we follow the safety guidelines of not going outside pointing weapons then how often we use the weapon mounted light is extremely rare and hopefully never. That battery life is pretty important. What I do in this regard, is a regularly scheduled or heck something fun to do when bored, check the weapon light as well as my light aiming technique. The last thing you want is going to some battle with a dead weight on the end of your gun, flip the switch, then go "Oh shit". Now you can take this post for what its worth and I'll go back to finishing my letter to the young man who thought it wasn't a good idea. He should get out of jail soon, but I'm afraid his thousands of dollar just to get the sentence reduced, he'll never get back. Tj |
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I was a Police Officer for over 25 years. During that time I ran into many home owners armed(gun in hand) while
i was looking for the bad guy. I was never shot or shot at by them or vice versa. Maybe it was luck, but home owners Cops and turds at 0:300 don't look alike or act alike. Still, use common sense. Hope this is helpfull |
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http://www.surefire.com/M962XM07-with-Throw-lever-mount
Surefire M962C |
| A weapon mounted light allows you to use a rifle or shotgun for HD otherwise you are pretty much limited to a handgun because you absolutely must have a light in hand to see what's up in the middle of the night. Especially if you have to look outside. Having said that, I still use a handgun because its much easier to get around with unless I KNOW there is a problem. I am a LEO and I don't presume to be able to tell any home owner that he shouldn't have a flashlight to look around his property. I would say that anyone in such a situation who illuminates a uniformed police officer around their home and who has a firearm should immediately lay it on the ground and declare themselves the homeowner. I have a pelican M6 in a daniel defense offset mount on my HD AR and a surefire on the Glock 21 which is in a lock box under my bed. |
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I have the surefire vert grip light on my ar. Can't remember model # but it also has 2 red leds beside the main light for map reading or night nav. I also have a light on my main glock. I believe target identification is very important.
I was at a friends house who lives in a rural area one night watching a movie around 2am. They had the back patio light on and a blind on the back door that was closed except the bottom 8-10 inches so the dogs could look out. All of a sudden I looked over and saw a pair of legs standing right at the back door. The dogs saw it at the same time, and one friend saw it and she yelled then the dogs started going crazy. 2 friends ran to the door as the stranger took off and I went to get my ccw(no light) and was right behind them out the door. I had no night vision because the patio light blinds you going out the door. As I rounded the corner of the house I heard very heavy breathing and someone running at me. I could hear my friends around the other side of the house. My heart started racing and i steped back and raised my wapon half way. It was the damn dog! I felt so retarded afterwards. I usually always at least one flashlight on me. even so your heart is racing and you may need that hand to do something else like open a door. So i'm a strong believer in weapon mounted lights. And no dogs were harmed that night and the legs dissappeared into the woods. |
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Quoted:
I have the surefire vert grip light on my ar. Can't remember model # but it also has 2 red leds beside the main light for map reading or night nav. I also have a light on my main glock. I believe target identification is very important. I was at a friends house who lives in a rural area one night watching a movie around 2am. They had the back patio light on and a blind on the back door that was closed except the bottom 8-10 inches so the dogs could look out. All of a sudden I looked over and saw a pair of legs standing right at the back door. The dogs saw it at the same time, and one friend saw it and she yelled then the dogs started going crazy. 2 friends ran to the door as the stranger took off and I went to get my ccw(no light) and was right behind them out the door. I had no night vision because the patio light blinds you going out the door. As I rounded the corner of the house I heard very heavy breathing and someone running at me. I could hear my friends around the other side of the house. My heart started racing and i steped back and raised my wapon half way. It was the damn dog! I felt so retarded afterwards. I usually always at least one flashlight on me. even so your heart is racing and you may need that hand to do something else like open a door. So i'm a strong believer in weapon mounted lights. And no dogs were harmed that night and the legs dissappeared into the woods. Nah, That's not stupid. Drawing down on someone that's not a threat and then going to jail for it, now that's stupid.
There's a big difference legally between having a gun in your hand and pointing that gun at someone. Your property, that's not the way I would prefer it, that's for sure, but its equally for sure that's the way it is. Tj |
| I keep a light on my AR for home defense situations. In a house it is a darned good idea. However all of my weapons lights are easily removable for situations outside of the house where there might be multiple bad guys. For my primary HD gun (G19) I am switching to a handheld flashlight, replacing a weapon light, but I need more practice with it. |
| Thanks TJ. There had been some very suspicous activity and an attempted breakin at that friends house in the previous month so I was a little more alert. My point was to have to light married to the weapon means you don't forget to pick it up. You have a free hand to do something else or support your weapon if needed. In that situation and most situations using a light will benifit you more than harm you. Unless you are in a hostile environment with known armed threats then light their ass up! |
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Quoted: I am a firm believer in powerful lights on weapons. I would prefer to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have it. I am not one to indiscriminately flash it around to telegraph my position, but I don't want to accidently ventilate any friendlies. I also believe that it may give you some advantage by blinding a potential threat and/or putting them to flight. What do y'all think? I agree. I carry an X300 with a DG switch on my G17 at work. I use it frequently when searching buildings, high risk stops, etc. The DG switch is great too. It allows me to open a door, climb, talk on the radio, etc - and still keep the area lit up one handed. I am not allowed to carry a light on my rifle now (working on changing that), but I believe rifles should have a light too, for the reasons you mentioned above. It is also important to have a quality handheld for the times when you need light but can't point a gun at somebody.
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die-tryin, Where did you get the large rubber bands to hold on your pressure switch for your tactical light? They look like Ranger Bands to me. Try Brigade Quartermasters. Or, if you want them on the cheap, go buy a bicycle inner tube. Cut to make custom widths, depending on what you are securing. |
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I have a surefire light on my main AR carbine. forget the model number but is the one that has the built in rail mount and switch on the back as well as the detached pad. Is the one used by the military. I just taped the pad on the forarm using some electrical tape...works fine. Is a very bright light and I am sure very sturdy as well..
I bought it at the flea market from some returning vet that needed the money...only had to pay $25 which i figure was a real bargin....Even came with a infered filter....T |
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im with you to a point.
most homes have white or light colored walls, there is a point the splash back from a powerful light will damage your night vision and possible dazzle you in the process. for me i dont have a weaponlight on anything that will be used in doors for protection that exceeds 80 lumens. ETA: i also prep my home with LED nightlights at the back of each room when are coming from my bedroom. If there is power to my place everyone and everything is conviently backlit for me to allow me to locate and if possible determine if they are a threat or not. LED nightlights are cheap to buy, cheap to operate and last damn near forever. this tactic can be applied to your property lines as well, backlighting everything on your property. |
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im with you to a point. most homes have white or light colored walls, there is a point the splash back from a powerful light will damage your night vision and possible dazzle you in the process. for me i dont have a weaponlight on anything that will be used in doors for protection that exceeds 80 lumens. ETA: i also prep my home with LED nightlights at the back of each room when are coming from my bedroom. If there is power to my place everyone and everything is conviently backlit for me to allow me to locate and if possible determine if they are a threat or not. LED nightlights are cheap to buy, cheap to operate and last damn near forever. this tactic can be applied to your property lines as well, backlighting everything on your property. I like those LED nightlights/flashlights if this is what you are describing: 
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=284361-3-72114&lpage=none We have been buying these for a while and now we have about 7 of these throughout the house and they work really great. They work as normal night lights but if the power goes out they stay on and you can flick the switch to ON and use it a flashlight. They would work very well to provide light to fight an home invader and we have lights set up to illuminate hallways and access points to the house. They cost about $10 each and we started with just a few and I have added one or two each trip to lowes and now our house is well illuminated on the inside if the power goes out through natural or man caused reasons. Note, in my brother's home invasion they cut their power and they were woke up to a pitch black house. That is the reason I plan and prepare to fight in an zero electric environment. |
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I also have a few light mounted weapons. A few on some ARs. The handguns (really like the TLR1s. have 5 now). The a scatter gun. I am a surefire junky, but the TLR1s are great little lights, have one dedicated to the XD45, PX4, and CX4. The other 2 bouce around a bit.
M500AB on a AR15. GREAT package. I also own a M3 and M6, then bought the M500b extension from optics planet a few years back. This with the bezel/ bulb of the M65 and the battery mag from the M6, you have a 500 lumen incan weapon light. I leave the standard AB with 125 lumen bulb, nice bright and good throw. 
The 870P has a Surefire 618FA. Good light... however I wish I had the master kill switch. May get another for one of my many other 870s. It will have the master kill switch, bottom obviously. 
Handgun systems. 
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