Posted: 7/10/2009 7:52:33 AM EDT
So, my wife calls from a neighbor's house telling me the power is out due to a thunderstorm.
I'm not too worried about her and the kids except her phone is completely dead (the reason she had to go to the neighbor's house) and she tells me the sump hole is filling up. I do have a battery backup that she can use for the phone, but I need to train her on the Inverter. I live about 10 min from work, so I decide to go home for a bit to check things out. I get the generator out and go to fire it up. I test it every month, with load, so I know it will work - or so I think. It starts, but runs really poorly. I look at the gas gauge and it is empty. No problem, I store gas for just this reason. I just got some new gas yesterday, so I grab it and stabilize it. I fill the generator about half full and am ready to get started again. Same thing. The generator starts and does run, but not anywhere near the RPMs it should be. I didn't test, but I'm sure there was no power output. It was running how it runs about 10 seconds before it dies due to no gas - that poorly. I check the air filter - looks factory clean. I check the oil, plenty of it and recently changed. I check the spark plug - it's dirty. So, I grab a backup one (new) and install it. I checked the gap to make sure it was okay (.029). The damn thing still won't run. To make things better, the flippin cord broke off while I was trying to start it so I had to take that down and install a new paracord pull cord. Long story short, my generator is broken. You guys got any advice on what to check/do? The unit is a Champion C40012. I know, chinese, but I have NEVER had a problem until now (when I needed it). The power is back on now, but this is an essential part of my backup preps and must work. Thanks for the help. |
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I just got some new gas yesterday, so I grab it and stabilize it. I fill the generator about half full
Did you add Stabil as you filled your genny, is this your habit. I don't store gas but I think you want to add the Stabil to the fuel can at fill up, not later. You may have had the gas evaporate leaving gum in the carb, if so the fastest fix that I have found is to get a kit of all the seals for your carb and replace them and cleaning all the metal parts |
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Fuel, air or spark. Air should be good, spark *should* be good, all that's left is fuel.
check your fuel line filter. I'm assuming it's carberated - so if the filter (replace it) doesn't fix it, then consider cleaning out the carb. I would even suggest using some carb cleaner or brake cleaner to shoot down the throat while it's running. Doing the filter and then carb cleaner may save you from breaking down the carb and losing little bits. |
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I don't put much gas in it as I typically only run it an hour a month. The gas I that was in it was stabilized and the gas I added today was stabilized. It definately should not have gone bad.
When I put gas in it, I use gas fresh from the station, stabilize it and put a bit into the genny. The rest goes into the car. |
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I would even suggest using some carb cleaner or brake cleaner to shoot down the throat while it's running. Doing the filter and then carb cleaner may save you from breaking down the carb and losing little bits. So I would take out the air filter and spray in the carb cleaner while it's attempting to run? |
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I have no advice on fixing your generator now, but I do have a comment on your
monthly routine. Either keep the tank full of stablized gas or run it completely empty. Your post makes it sound like you leave a little gas in the tank, if so this is the worst possible scenario as smaller quantities of gas go bad much faster. Regardless, this is the reason that backup equipment should actually be high quality gear. A cheap genny is fine if it's only going to be used when it doesn't really matter. If you are ever going to depend on it, buy the best equipment you can. |
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One, make sure you arent starting it under load. Two, try spraying a little starting fluid in the intake and then starting it. If it revs up real good, and runs hard, then peters off and dies, you have a fuel delivery problem. Could be a clog. No load on the system. I'll be sure to try the starting fluid. Keep the info coming, it is definitely helping me and probably others. I don't know too much about engine so I'm learning as I go. Thanks again everyone. |
| pull the carb and check it. if i forget to drain it on mine i usually have to end up rebuilding it. pull it and take off the bowl and hit everything with carb cleaner and let it sit for a min or 2 and spray it again. make sure you have some gasket maker to make a new one to go between the block and the carb. |
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J2DOG my method when I test my generator (every 4 months. It use to be montly), I run it for 10 mins. Then I turn off the fuel valve between the gas tank and carburator till the generator dies down. I leave the fuel valve in the off position. I bought the generator back in June 06 and still have the original fuel in it that was originally treated with Sta-Bil.
I have not had any issue with starting or running my generator. I also do a voltage check evertime test run to make sure it's in par. I'm going to assume that what ever left over fuel in your line and carb bowl is evaporating. Causing gunk build up and possibly clogging. |
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As others have said, it is air, spark and fuel.
Also as suggested do spray some starter fluid in the carb. If it fires up then it is a fuel delivery problem. Also take out the spark plug. When cranking it, you should see a little spark jump the gap. I just had a very similar situation with my lawn mower. Worked fine last year. The solution was the linkage was kind of gummed up. Sprayed it down with cleaner and it is running fine now. |
| the gas you put in the gennie originally did it come from a can? There may have been trash in the bottom of the can that got into the gennie tank. then when you ran the gennie out of fuel it migrated to your fuel filter, change fuel filter and try it again. Also never pour the last little bit of gas out of a can into anything. The amount of trash you can find in it is amazing. |
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Just something to throw ou there-
If it has a petcock, turn it off while its still running when you're shutting it down for storage. This will run a lot of the gas out of the line and carb and keep it from varnish buildup. If your gennie has no petcock, go buy one for the size of your fuel line and put one in. It's worth it. |
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Fuel, air or spark. Air should be good, spark *should* be good, all that's left is fuel. check your fuel line filter. I'm assuming it's carberated - so if the filter (replace it) doesn't fix it, then consider cleaning out the carb. I would even suggest using some carb cleaner or brake cleaner to shoot down the throat while it's running. Doing the filter and then carb cleaner may save you from breaking down the carb and losing little bits. this. i'm making the assumption you have spark since it will run, but it could be weak. check your fuel system first. you need to check the fuel line from the tank all the way to the carb. look for kinks in the line that may limit or stop the fuel flow. i would pull the line at the carb and let the fuel flow into a clean container. if you have good flow, then you probably have junk in the carb. if you don't have good flow, the pull the fuel line just prior to the filter and see if you have good flow at that point. if yes, then your filter is restricting the flow. you can temporarily bypass it to see if that is the problem. if so, replace it. if you've assured that the fuel flow from the tank to the carb is uninhibited, then you likely have a carb issue. either junk in it or you've had varnish build up. an easy way to test this is to, as others have mentioned, spray starting fluid into the throat of the carb while it's running. if the engine evens out and runs smoothly, you have a carb issue. the other way to do this is take a small propane cannister and run a 3/8" rubber line from it into the throat of the carb and open the propane up while the engine is running and again watch for the engine to smooth out. if you do all of this and the engine doesn't smooth out, then i'd look at spark as the problem. |
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My buddys pretty new genset does that randomly. I go over there and take the fuel line off his carb and blow thru it and it runs fine again. We then treated his fuel with some Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner and ran a tank thru it. It cleaned right up. It just had some built up gunk. Afterwards we stuck a new inline fuel filter on er. I swear by the Chevron Techron. where ever anything I has thats gasoline starts being a little picky I run some and it cleans right up. I use lucas in Diesel with the same effect. |
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Just something to throw ou there- If it has a petcock, turn it off while its still running when you're shutting it down for storage. This will run a lot of the gas out of the line and carb and keep it from varnish buildup. If your gennie has no petcock, go buy one for the size of your fuel line and put one in. It's worth it. This!!!! Every time!!!!!! |
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One, make sure you arent starting it under load. Two, try spraying a little starting fluid in the intake and then starting it. If it revs up real good, and runs hard, then peters off and dies, you have a fuel delivery problem. Could be a clog. I will NEVER use starting fluid as it is HELL on an engine. For a small engine that you suspect is not delivering fuel use a shop rag with a fair amount of gas poured on it. The wadded up rag is placed on the carb as if it were the filter. This will prove or disprove the no fuel hypothesis. Big stuff just dump a 1/4 cup of gas in the intake. |
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your genny didnt fail. the way you store it is the problem. those champion gennys are awesome units and will run forever if you maintain them properly. did you know that champion motors and hondas are exactly the same. store your genny full of gas and when you shut it down turn off the petcock |
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your genny didnt fail. the way you store it is the problem. those champion gennys are awesome units and will run forever if you maintain them properly. did you know that champion motors and hondas are exactly the same. store your genny full of gas and when you shut it down turn off the petcock I store it with stabilized gas in it and always turn off the petcock before shutting it down. The generator never goes even 2 months without being run. I'm pretty much doing what everyone is suggesting with the exception of filling it with gas. I don't see the need to do that as I do run it every month and every six months we have "survival weekend" where it is our only source of power. Any gas still in it at that time is used then. I'm glad to hear that the motor is the same as the honda, this should last me a long time. As for the problem, it is fixed. Out of air, spark, or fuel, it turned out to be air. I checked the air filter, but not the ACTUAL OPERATION of the choke. I would turn the lever just like I always did, but it is broken. I discovered that today when I was going over it again. Somehow the choke lever isn't connected to the actual choke mechanism anymore. Those parts are just cheap plastic and it broke. I was able to get in there and adjust the choke without the lever. Now it is humming along just like always. I want to thank you all for your advice. Some of it didn't apply to this particular situation, but I definitely learned a lot. Thanks again! |
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One, make sure you arent starting it under load. Two, try spraying a little starting fluid in the intake and then starting it. If it revs up real good, and runs hard, then peters off and dies, you have a fuel delivery problem. Could be a clog. I will NEVER use starting fluid as it is HELL on an engine. For a small engine that you suspect is not delivering fuel use a shop rag with a fair amount of gas poured on it. The wadded up rag is placed on the carb as if it were the filter. This will prove or disprove the no fuel hypothesis. Big stuff just dump a 1/4 cup of gas in the intake. Yup. Its not a bad thing to have on hand.... just a very bad thing to use. You would do better pulling the plug and dribbling some gas directly into the cylinder! |
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J2DOG That is good to know. Did you replace the choke linkage or reattach it? Or will you manually open and close the choke? The choke lever had a little pin that went down into a slot on the choke assembly. That pin broke off. I can still move the choke assembly manually - that is how I got it started. I might send off for the piece or just leave it alone. It really isn't a big deal now that I know what is going on. |
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Quoted: I've been told that the ethanol added to the fuel plays havoc with small engines. ethanol eats plastic and most engines, since the mid eighties, small and large have plastic in the fuel system. the plastic parts are the main reason that we can not use E-85 in our cars. most fuel you buy now, has 5-10 % ethanol in it and the gas supplier doesnt have to tell you as long as it is under a certain percentage. |
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I've been told that the ethanol added to the fuel plays havoc with small engines. ethanol eats plastic and most engines, since the mid eighties, small and large have plastic in the fuel system. the plastic parts are the main reason that we can not use E-85 in our cars. most fuel you buy now, has 5-10 % ethanol in it and the gas supplier doesnt have to tell you as long as it is under a certain percentage. I do not know about PA, but around here all pumps are labeled "contains up to 10% ethanol" |
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+ 1 on the ethanol eating rubber/plastic parts. I just had to replace the fuel pump diaphragm on the ex's mower. Some kind of rubber membrane stuff had stretched underneath the fuel pump spring where it was softened by the constant exposure to alcohol/fuel. This is the third one that has been on there in the 9 years that she/we've owned the mower. Heck, it just got the oil changed in it for the first time last month, and I'm an ASE-certified mechanic!
Slick |
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I've been told that the ethanol added to the fuel plays havoc with small engines. This a true statement, the blow back from this 10% mandate has yet to strike home. It rose cain with the sleds here last winter with a number of siezed engines. The proper way to store is to add the new Marine fuel stabilizer (green color) WITH stabil in the correct measure. This is to prevent seperation of the ethenol / moisture from condensation from settling in the bottom of the tank and causing problems. |