Posted: 3/17/2009 1:02:52 PM EDT
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This shit does not look good!
Swatting ETA: Sorry for not Hot linking it, I was running out the door, and wanted to post it fast! And, I typed shot instead of shit! I was really rushing it... I agree that someone will get killed doing this. Bill |
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[tinfoil on]
wow, what a good way to just skirt ALL the friggin laws and wax ass on anyone that "the man" wants "no, really, we had a call, and they guy drew down on us since he's a law abiding citizen and didn't expect anyone to break in at 3am, so we shot him dead" [tinfoil off] no, really. |
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that's gonna get somebody killed. You're absolutely right my friend. Think about it. It's 3AM, and you hear something rustling outside. Then you hear boots on your patio-an entry team is anything but quiet, particularly in the dead of night. Or worse, your door gets kicked in. What would any one of us do? I'd grab my USP45 (or God help me, an M4) and either investigate or barricade. Even if I barricaded, the entry team would find me as they cleared the house. As a homeowner who is now wide awake and terrified, do you think I'd believe someone who was yelling POLICE! POLICE! as they stormed through my home? That's a perfect recipe for disaster. Jesus 
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Um, the police have been doing no-knock warrants for years. It has gotten police officers and civilians killed.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C04EED8123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63 http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1129/p03s03-ussc.html http://www.lewrockwell.com/suprynowicz/suprynowicz66.html Sorry, I'm too stupid to successfully post multiple links. |
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Quoted:
Um, the police have been doing no-knock warrants for years. It has gotten police officers and civilians killed. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C04EED8123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63 http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1129/p03s03-ussc.html http://www.lewrockwell.com/suprynowicz/suprynowicz66.html Sorry, I'm too stupid to successfully post multiple links. yeah, but not as a "fad" or "internet prank"... this world is getting more and more f'dup by the minute it seems |
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Quoted:
Um, the police have been doing no-knock warrants for years. It has gotten police officers and civilians killed. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C04EED8123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63 http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1129/p03s03-ussc.html http://www.lewrockwell.com/suprynowicz/suprynowicz66.html Sorry, I'm too stupid to successfully post multiple links. That's not the point. The point is when an entry team serves a warrant, at least there is a halfway decent chance that a bad guy will be behind the door they just kicked in. This prank call bullshit ensures that virtually every door they kick as a result of said call will result in weapons being pointed at an innocent family. Sure, SWAT teams occasionally breach a door at the wrong home-but that is the exception, not the norm. |
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I am probably alone on this: but, I think that this tactic is, without the interference of the Swatting, an incredibly inappropriate tactic. Perhaps departments will now use reconnaissance and surveillance to ensure that there is a bad guy behind the door.
Think of what you said,"A halfway decent chance". I pull a gun on that I lose my permit. If someone dies, I go to jail. Cato article on standard no-knocks. Edited to add: Don't want to start a fight, I just really hate this tactic. I know that there is a limited place for it. But It just seems to get used by some grade A asscovering morons. |
I don't think cops should do a no-knock home invasion in any but the most dire circumstances. I'm talking proof that there are terrorists inside with a functional atomic bomb dire...not "they might flush the drugs down the toilet and then I can't get kudos for a great bust".  Either way, I need to get that 308 AR finished. I'm not worried about over penetration when the home invaders posing as cops have body armor...
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On the incident this is about there was no forcible entry by swat, the swat team made contact and told the owners to come out. The other incident referenced in the video was also not a forced entry, the home owner went outside with a knife (stupid but not the point).
In both of these cases a call to 911 as soon as the home owner knew of a problem would have verified the presence of real cops and also opened a line of comms with them. This is why even when you know you aren't going to get a speedy response from LE you should dial 911 asap. At least you have eliminated a possible set up. Now if the entry is made without them attempting to contact as they did in these two episodes, then all bets are off and the homeowner is in a tough spot. Just remember, the law can call for a heck of a lot more back up than most of us. If the shooting begins this is going to be a key factor in the win/lose coin toss. |
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Quoted:
On the incident this is about there was no forcible entry by swat, the swat team made contact and told the owners to come out. The other incident referenced in the video was also not a forced entry, the home owner went outside with a knife (stupid but not the point). In both of these cases a call to 911 as soon as the home owner knew of a problem would have verified the presence of real cops and also opened a line of comms with them. This is why even when you know you aren't going to get a speedy response from LE you should dial 911 asap. At least you have eliminated a possible set up. Now if the entry is made without them attempting to contact as they did in these two episodes, then all bets are off and the homeowner is in a tough spot. Just remember, the law can call for a heck of a lot more back up than most of us. If the shooting begins this is going to be a key factor in the win/lose coin toss. As former LE, I know where you are coming from, but I dont think winning the firefight is the point here. Here's my example: I wake up because my shepherd/pitt mix is going berzerk. I grab the G23 and a flashlight and go investigate while dialing 911. My call will be picked up by the county 911 desk and I have to explain my situation to them before being transfered to the local township PD dispatch desk. By then, 2 minutes has gone by. Well before that 2 minutes goes by, I walk near a window that a LEO (swat or not) is looking in. Or whatever sticky situation you wanna insert here... Pick your poison. My luck, I've been shot by some rookie with a fast trigger finger and a slow common sence process. Either way, I'm dead on the kitchen floor in my tightie-whities and some poor LEO has to live with the fuck-up forever. Its just a shitty situation. It reminds me why I wanna move to some little town where I know the sheriff by name and he's gonna recognize my stupid ass stumbling around in the dark rather than confusing me with an armed streaker. |
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I am probably alone on this: but, I think that this tactic is, without the interference of the Swatting, an incredibly inappropriate tactic. Perhaps departments will now use reconnaissance and surveillance to ensure that there is a bad guy behind the door. Think of what you said,"A halfway decent chance". I pull a gun on that I lose my permit. If someone dies, I go to jail. Cato article on standard no-knocks. Edited to add: Don't want to start a fight, I just really hate this tactic. I know that there is a limited place for it. But It just seems to get used by some grade A asscovering morons. I completely agree with you-I don't like no-knocks either. I guess all I'm trying to say is that this "prank" generates a higher potential for an innocent person to get hurt or killed. That's all I'm (apparently very poorly) trying to say 
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Unfortunately the practice of "swatting" has been going on for quite a while, I have been of aware of cases of this happening a few years back due to my line of work in cybercrime issues (No. I'm not a LEO, but we work with them on issues).
The tactic is not new, but unfortunately its growing in popularity
2007 Swatting Bust Technology is very easy to twist to the wrong ends.. c0 ____________________________ Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine. Tpass.org |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
On the incident this is about there was no forcible entry by swat, the swat team made contact and told the owners to come out. The other incident referenced in the video was also not a forced entry, the home owner went outside with a knife (stupid but not the point). In both of these cases a call to 911 as soon as the home owner knew of a problem would have verified the presence of real cops and also opened a line of comms with them. This is why even when you know you aren't going to get a speedy response from LE you should dial 911 asap. At least you have eliminated a possible set up. Now if the entry is made without them attempting to contact as they did in these two episodes, then all bets are off and the homeowner is in a tough spot. Just remember, the law can call for a heck of a lot more back up than most of us. If the shooting begins this is going to be a key factor in the win/lose coin toss. As former LE, I know where you are coming from, but I dont think winning the firefight is the point here. Here's my example: I wake up because my shepherd/pitt mix is going berzerk. I grab the G23 and a flashlight and go investigate while dialing 911. My call will be picked up by the county 911 desk and I have to explain my situation to them before being transfered to the local township PD dispatch desk. By then, 2 minutes has gone by. Well before that 2 minutes goes by, I walk near a window that a LEO (swat or not) is looking in. Or whatever sticky situation you wanna insert here... Pick your poison. My luck, I've been shot by some rookie with a fast trigger finger and a slow common sence process. Either way, I'm dead on the kitchen floor in my tightie-whities and some poor LEO has to live with the fuck-up forever. Its just a shitty situation. It reminds me why I wanna move to some little town where I know the sheriff by name and he's gonna recognize my stupid ass stumbling around in the dark rather than confusing me with an armed streaker. I agree 1000% on the winning of a fire fight, my point was that for those that choose to shoot first and then call for help this may be a reason to consider calling before shooting. |
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I don't think cops should do a no-knock home invasion in any but the most dire circumstances. I'm talking proof that there are terrorists inside with a functional atomic bomb dire...not "they might flush the drugs down the toilet and then I can't get kudos for a great bust". Either way, I need to get that 308 AR finished. I'm not worried about over penetration when the home invaders posing as cops have body armor...In 'Swatting', someone calls the police and gives them DIRE circumstances... Like someone about to be murdered type DIRE... It's a bogus call of course, but they don't know that until they hit the door... |
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All the people who say that they don't like the no knock warrants how many of you have served a warrant before? I have and your not serving them to the little old lady who has to many parking tickets maybe there has been some dumb departments that have done that but most do not. These people that are served this way are men and woman who would hurt or kill an officer if given the chance to. They don't play by the law like you and me they make there own rules and own laws.
This Swatting is a bad deal and yes someone will get hurt or killed by doing this but there is another thing that can be done call backs by the 911 dispatcher. If gunmen is trying to invade someones home then the owner should be able to pick up the phone or they should stay on the line with the dispatcher. If someone has killed someone and there going to kill themselves 99% of the time if they call 911 they are going to off themselves before SWAT gets there or it's a cry for help so they would pick the phone back up. |
| I read about this a few months ago. I can't believe somoeone would be so stupid as to make one of these calls and think that they aren't going to get caught eventually. It may take awhile to sort through the information because of the way the calls are placed but they can track them enventually. Someone will end up getting killed and the douchebacg that made the call will be charged with murder for it. |
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Quoted:
I am probably alone on this: but, I think that this tactic is, without the interference of the Swatting, an incredibly inappropriate tactic. Perhaps departments will now use reconnaissance and surveillance to ensure that there is a bad guy behind the door. Think of what you said,"A halfway decent chance". I pull a gun on that I lose my permit. If someone dies, I go to jail. Cato article on standard no-knocks. Edited to add: Don't want to start a fight, I just really hate this tactic. I know that there is a limited place for it. But It just seems to get used by some grade A asscovering morons. I bet your're one of those guys that believes in magical unicorns that shit skittles, right? |